So I lost a spomb over the weekend due to the shock leader slipping and coming off.
I tried back to back grinners, mahin and Albright knots and they all slipped. What am I doing wrong?
Joining braided mainline (whiplash) to a braided shock leader (esp) launching a midi spomb
I tried back to back grinners, mahin and Albright knots and they all slipped. What am I doing wrong?
Joining braided mainline (whiplash) to a braided shock leader (esp) launching a midi spomb
In reply to Post #1
are you doubling up the main line braid before tying the knot? i found previously just using the single strand of mainline in the knot would get some slippage.
Given the relatively small diameter i do this with a back to back uni knot and never had an issue (3 turns on shockleader material, 6 of the doubled up thinner mainline)
are you doubling up the main line braid before tying the knot? i found previously just using the single strand of mainline in the knot would get some slippage.
Given the relatively small diameter i do this with a back to back uni knot and never had an issue (3 turns on shockleader material, 6 of the doubled up thinner mainline)
I wasn't doubling it up no, but I can give it a try
That sounds weird with a back to back Grinner just because of the very nature of the knot. Are you sure you're 100% tying that particular knot correct?
As for the other knots you mention, I've had similar slippage problems with thin Whiplash, I found that using Kryston's shock leaders far better due to its shape, Armakord is pony as it please to lots and lots of crack offs.
As for the other knots you mention, I've had similar slippage problems with thin Whiplash, I found that using Kryston's shock leaders far better due to its shape, Armakord is pony as it please to lots and lots of crack offs.
In reply to Post #1
If Mahin and Albright are slipping then you are tying them wrong. Both these knots can take a couple of times to get right but when done correctly and bedded down they will not slip
If Mahin and Albright are slipping then you are tying them wrong. Both these knots can take a couple of times to get right but when done correctly and bedded down they will not slip
In reply to Post #5
Nah mate, the Mahin isn't a great knot. Had it slip on me far too often, so much so I reverted back to back to back Grinner - I can tie the Mahin. If you're using ultra thin Whiplash or similar types of lines the Mahin is next to useless.
Nah mate, the Mahin isn't a great knot. Had it slip on me far too often, so much so I reverted back to back to back Grinner - I can tie the Mahin. If you're using ultra thin Whiplash or similar types of lines the Mahin is next to useless.
In reply to Post #6
I don't agree with that. Only ever had it slip on tying. i use it braid-braid, braid-flouro/mono and mono-flouro
I don't agree with that. Only ever had it slip on tying. i use it braid-braid, braid-flouro/mono and mono-flouro
In reply to Post #7
The Mahin undoes itself. Great knot to go through the eyes,just very unreliable.
The Mahin undoes itself. Great knot to go through the eyes,just very unreliable.
In reply to Post #8
I find putting a single overhand knot in the tag end before you bed down stops any slipping.
I find putting a single overhand knot in the tag end before you bed down stops any slipping.
In reply to Post #8
At what point is it untying itself?
At what point is it untying itself?
In reply to Post #10
Reeling in.
Reeling in.
In reply to Post #9
So the .win knot beds around the overhand?
So the .win knot beds around the overhand?
In reply to Post #11
That just doesn't make sense if bedded down correctly. I have used with 0.28 mono and braid at 0.16. I've had the knot break on a frap up and I've pulled in some horrendous snags and weedbeds but I've never had a knot unravel on me. What braid and monos were being used? I've found with some braids to take the coating off first such as PowerPro by running the bit to be tied through my nails. This removes the waxiness and allows better bedding of the knot
That just doesn't make sense if bedded down correctly. I have used with 0.28 mono and braid at 0.16. I've had the knot break on a frap up and I've pulled in some horrendous snags and weedbeds but I've never had a knot unravel on me. What braid and monos were being used? I've found with some braids to take the coating off first such as PowerPro by running the bit to be tied through my nails. This removes the waxiness and allows better bedding of the knot
In reply to Post #13
I use 30lb power pro to 100lb cheapest braid I could find on eBay - rarely fish at more than 100yds and it means I don't have to bother with a finger stall. Mahin Knot, power pro doubled over and never had a knot fail.
Never cracked off either funnily enough 😂
I use 30lb power pro to 100lb cheapest braid I could find on eBay - rarely fish at more than 100yds and it means I don't have to bother with a finger stall. Mahin Knot, power pro doubled over and never had a knot fail.
Never cracked off either funnily enough 😂
If you are tying braid to braid with back to back grinners and getting knots slipping and coming undone you are not tying them correctly.
Leader knot(Mahin) and Allbright knot were never designed to join similar diameters of braid and will slip. Allbright is an old
Knot that was designed to join light ropes to heavy cable and works well with heavy mono or thick filament to braid.
Leader knot works OK with heavy mono leaders to much lighter mainline but its not a knot I trust, particularly with braid.
If you want to use a mono leader, use a tapered leader tied to a mono mainline using a double blood knot.
The right knots have to be used in the right materials to be reliable.
Leader knot(Mahin) and Allbright knot were never designed to join similar diameters of braid and will slip. Allbright is an old
Knot that was designed to join light ropes to heavy cable and works well with heavy mono or thick filament to braid.
Leader knot works OK with heavy mono leaders to much lighter mainline but its not a knot I trust, particularly with braid.
If you want to use a mono leader, use a tapered leader tied to a mono mainline using a double blood knot.
The right knots have to be used in the right materials to be reliable.
In reply to Post #13
Late last year I gave up with the knot. Think it was either 00.6 or 00.8 Whiplash tired to Armakord, utterly useless. More than likely it was down to the coating on the Armakord, ditched it as I've no confidence in the knot or Armakord due to its stiff nature leading to lots of crackoffs. Blokes I was speaking to at the time complained of similar.
Maybe it was also down to the stresses.i was putting everything under. At the time I was fishing a spot at 170yds.
Late last year I gave up with the knot. Think it was either 00.6 or 00.8 Whiplash tired to Armakord, utterly useless. More than likely it was down to the coating on the Armakord, ditched it as I've no confidence in the knot or Armakord due to its stiff nature leading to lots of crackoffs. Blokes I was speaking to at the time complained of similar.
Maybe it was also down to the stresses.i was putting everything under. At the time I was fishing a spot at 170yds.
The only stress a leader knot sees is hitting the clip, which at 100m with the spring in the rod shouldn't be breaking any knot that's established enough to have a name and using 20lb+ braid
It's incorrectly tied knots for the material, 8lb mono to a heavy leader is actually easier to use
It's incorrectly tied knots for the material, 8lb mono to a heavy leader is actually easier to use
The only answer here is you need to practice knot tying, just concentrate on the back to back grinner, tied correctly it never slips.
In reply to Post #13
I've used mahin knot for braid shockleader to braid mainline for years and never had one slip, ever.
I've used mahin knot for braid shockleader to braid mainline for years and never had one slip, ever.
In reply to Post #19
You obviously tie a good knot. Do you use an overhand or figure of eight in the leader material.
You obviously tie a good knot. Do you use an overhand or figure of eight in the leader material.
This may or may not help you. A mate asked me if I could have a look at his new braid as he couldn't knot it without it slipping. A uni and blood knot slipped but a polomar didn't. You may need to find the right knot for your braid.
In reply to Post #21
Palomar is a fine knot, not sure how you can use it for a shock leader.
Palomar is a fine knot, not sure how you can use it for a shock leader.
In reply to Post #22
I was just making a point that different braid sometimes need different knots it may be worth op trying a few.
I was just making a point that different braid sometimes need different knots it may be worth op trying a few.
In reply to Post #23
No arguments there. Thought I might have been missing something.
No arguments there. Thought I might have been missing something.
In reply to Post #20
just on overhand
just on overhand
In reply to Post #1
The only one that has been 100% effective is the back to back grinner tied up properly and tightened properly.
All the other line to line knots have slipped and are just to much messing around for me.
All my sea fishing was done with this knot too.
The only one that has been 100% effective is the back to back grinner tied up properly and tightened properly.
All the other line to line knots have slipped and are just to much messing around for me.
All my sea fishing was done with this knot too.
In reply to Post #8
Only if you don't tie it properly...
Only if you don't tie it properly...
In reply to Post #27
Bulls-hit. It slips, as others have mentioned, not just me. Jesus, it's a Mahin knot, it's not like I'm trying to bend space and time to traverse the universe, it's an easy knot to tie, just that it's not a reliable knot.
Ha, probably the reason it doesn't slip on you as you never go.
Bulls-hit. It slips, as others have mentioned, not just me. Jesus, it's a Mahin knot, it's not like I'm trying to bend space and time to traverse the universe, it's an easy knot to tie, just that it's not a reliable knot.
Ha, probably the reason it doesn't slip on you as you never go.
In reply to Post #28
It's not a good knot for thin braid to braid and it's pretty obvious it will slip. It's not a million miles from a double grinner just with a granny knot on one side, a couple of half hitches may help, by which time you might as well had tied a better knot in the first place
It's not a good knot for thin braid to braid and it's pretty obvious it will slip. It's not a million miles from a double grinner just with a granny knot on one side, a couple of half hitches may help, by which time you might as well had tied a better knot in the first place
In reply to Post #29
So it's user error then
So it's user error then
This has been discussed loads over the years and I personally have never had a Mahin slip but then I leave 1/2 inch tag ends.
For example this thread the OP is having similar trouble with a back to back grinner and the general consensus being the Mahin knot is best LINK
For example this thread the OP is having similar trouble with a back to back grinner and the general consensus being the Mahin knot is best LINK
In reply to Post #31
I've never had a leader knot fail, if it does I think you must be hitting the clip very hard. Or you leader is not long enough, and the knot is taking strain on the cast. Which it should never do.
I've never had a leader knot fail, if it does I think you must be hitting the clip very hard. Or you leader is not long enough, and the knot is taking strain on the cast. Which it should never do.
In reply to Post #28
The materials used will have an impact on the knots performance. Perhaps with the 'right' materials, whatever they are, it stays tight with no slippage?
I'm having the same slippage issue, and still searching for a working solution. I had used 20lb Daiwa J Braid as the mainline with Nash 50lb shockleader. Tied together with back to back double grinner. I was extra careful with the knot. I left nice tag ends. After 10 casts it slipped, and my dot spod was gone.
I have been trying 30lb braid straight through, no leader, but i'm getting regular crack offs, and lost spombs.
Its frustrating. I'm not sure what to try next.
The materials used will have an impact on the knots performance. Perhaps with the 'right' materials, whatever they are, it stays tight with no slippage?
I'm having the same slippage issue, and still searching for a working solution. I had used 20lb Daiwa J Braid as the mainline with Nash 50lb shockleader. Tied together with back to back double grinner. I was extra careful with the knot. I left nice tag ends. After 10 casts it slipped, and my dot spod was gone.
I have been trying 30lb braid straight through, no leader, but i'm getting regular crack offs, and lost spombs.
Its frustrating. I'm not sure what to try next.
In reply to Post #33
I have wrote about the solution to this a few times in the past. Maybe search my previous posts.
I use a mahin knot and add a single overhand granny knot on each tag end about 1cm from the main knot.
This allows the knot to tighten down and slip until it buts up against the granny knot.
Tie the regular mahin, butt it up and tighten, and see what side it is slipping on, then add the granny knot and keep tightening until the mahin butts up and becomes solid.
It won't slip any further.
I have wrote about the solution to this a few times in the past. Maybe search my previous posts.
I use a mahin knot and add a single overhand granny knot on each tag end about 1cm from the main knot.
This allows the knot to tighten down and slip until it buts up against the granny knot.
Tie the regular mahin, butt it up and tighten, and see what side it is slipping on, then add the granny knot and keep tightening until the mahin butts up and becomes solid.
It won't slip any further.
In reply to Post #34
Why not tie a knot that doesn't slip rather than try to modify one that does.
Why not tie a knot that doesn't slip rather than try to modify one that does.
In reply to Post #33
I'm sure it's the material rather than the way you're tying the knot, just very surprised that a back to back Grinner is slipping on you. Definitely Banana Braid is a solution as it's not coated which I'm sure is the problem. Maybe others can chime in with similar lines that are uncoated that can get the dia you're after. The beauty of Banana Braid or similar is the ribbed sort of shape it has which stops any slippage problems.
These ultra thin braids make casting much easier than the thicker dia obviously do, unfortunately they've got their downsides, snap like cotton and most I've used are coated leading to slippage problems. I've not found the perfect combo as yet. As Halfcentury has mentioned [sure it was him] the only way around these coated braids is to get the coating off somehow, a small blob of superglue will also help.
Crackoffs:
I hope I'm not getting you to suck eggs here, when you're reeling in, make sure your line is under constant tension, like cupping the line as you would spooling up just before the spool. The line must go back on the spool with even tension, otherwise, bang, another spomb on the MIA list. It's best practice to loosen your clutch to take off the desired length of line for you cast under tension rather than taking line off the spool with the bail arm open as this is where things can go wonky and there's slack in the line which will definitely lead to you loosing a spomb. It's one of those things where you've got to pay close attention constantly to what you're doing when spombing, just that slight lack of awareness after pumping out your last spomb of a 10kg payload of goodness will lead to having that sickening feeling of another lost spomb.
Hope that in some way helps and that I'm not trying to talk down to you or being sarcastic, just trying to offer some help from personal experience. I know all too well how utterly annoying this all is, to the point I've wanted to yell at the top of my voice...you fugging cuuuuun-t 🤬🤬🤬
I'm sure it's the material rather than the way you're tying the knot, just very surprised that a back to back Grinner is slipping on you. Definitely Banana Braid is a solution as it's not coated which I'm sure is the problem. Maybe others can chime in with similar lines that are uncoated that can get the dia you're after. The beauty of Banana Braid or similar is the ribbed sort of shape it has which stops any slippage problems.
These ultra thin braids make casting much easier than the thicker dia obviously do, unfortunately they've got their downsides, snap like cotton and most I've used are coated leading to slippage problems. I've not found the perfect combo as yet. As Halfcentury has mentioned [sure it was him] the only way around these coated braids is to get the coating off somehow, a small blob of superglue will also help.
Crackoffs:
I hope I'm not getting you to suck eggs here, when you're reeling in, make sure your line is under constant tension, like cupping the line as you would spooling up just before the spool. The line must go back on the spool with even tension, otherwise, bang, another spomb on the MIA list. It's best practice to loosen your clutch to take off the desired length of line for you cast under tension rather than taking line off the spool with the bail arm open as this is where things can go wonky and there's slack in the line which will definitely lead to you loosing a spomb. It's one of those things where you've got to pay close attention constantly to what you're doing when spombing, just that slight lack of awareness after pumping out your last spomb of a 10kg payload of goodness will lead to having that sickening feeling of another lost spomb.
Hope that in some way helps and that I'm not trying to talk down to you or being sarcastic, just trying to offer some help from personal experience. I know all too well how utterly annoying this all is, to the point I've wanted to yell at the top of my voice...you fugging cuuuuun-t 🤬🤬🤬
In reply to Post #36
Could be a good idea but not me in this case.
Could be a good idea but not me in this case.
It's amusing how most people can tell you what rods, reels, lead size, line and testicle circumference Terry Edmonds has; but very few people reference what knots him and Hutch etc use.
A double uni/grinner actually comes out top in a test against other connections but with 10 turns instead of 5. Always worth consulting the people who actually require knot strength... link
A double uni/grinner actually comes out top in a test against other connections but with 10 turns instead of 5. Always worth consulting the people who actually require knot strength... link
The problem is not the knot, it's the other elements that lead to slippage and crack-offs, these have been previously mentioned, thin dial lines and coated braids especially thin ones will increase the chance off problems with slippage. I don't know any lines that have worked well for me yet but I'd try experiment which materials and knots work well or more look for a good specialist braid for sporting or marketing that doesn't cause problems and have the bad properties that will cause knot slippage.
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