Wondering what some of your thoughts on fat content are in a winter bait? With full fat soya, lamlac and whatever might exist in clo in my bait is it something to worry about or not?
In reply to Post #1
Personally I think a mix containing those ingredients will be fine. Carp need a lipid source even in winter even a small one. I would worry less about the fat content and concentrate on soluble attraction and a coarse mix that is easily digestible.
Personally I think a mix containing those ingredients will be fine. Carp need a lipid source even in winter even a small one. I would worry less about the fat content and concentrate on soluble attraction and a coarse mix that is easily digestible.
In reply to Post #1
Personally I'm quite happy using fats in winter as a great lipid profile. I do rate cod liver oil in the colder months at something like 20ml/kg but that's on a cereal type base with a lower protein with an inherently low fat content much preferring a bulk oil rather than from the ings
Personally I'm quite happy using fats in winter as a great lipid profile. I do rate cod liver oil in the colder months at something like 20ml/kg but that's on a cereal type base with a lower protein with an inherently low fat content much preferring a bulk oil rather than from the ings
In reply to Post #1
Yes, it is.
Yes, it is.
has anyone got a rough winter/cold water mix recipe?
I have a good fishmeal base but I'm not sure if I want to use this straight through the cold months.
I have a good fishmeal base but I'm not sure if I want to use this straight through the cold months.
In reply to Post #5
5oz Cede
3oz Nectablend
3oz Lamlac
3oz Semo
2oz Maize Meal
Cheap, simple and caught loads.
5oz Cede
3oz Nectablend
3oz Lamlac
3oz Semo
2oz Maize Meal
Cheap, simple and caught loads.
In reply to Post #6
sounds spot on that does.
bit of condensed milk flavouring in there maybe some vanilla meal? that would smell amazing.
sounds spot on that does.
bit of condensed milk flavouring in there maybe some vanilla meal? that would smell amazing.
In reply to Post #1
Lamlac is very high in lipids. If that bothers you then you could just change that out for a lower fat alternative like Vitamealo
It will change the bait a little but if that's what you want to do then try it and see.
Lamlac is very high in lipids. If that bothers you then you could just change that out for a lower fat alternative like Vitamealo
It will change the bait a little but if that's what you want to do then try it and see.
In reply to Post #8
Lamlac is 25% fat, Vitamealo 20%. if you want lower fat content then use skimmed milk powder.
Lamlac is 25% fat, Vitamealo 20%. if you want lower fat content then use skimmed milk powder.
In reply to Post #9
odd, my datasheet says Vitamealo is 16% oil. It is a very old datasheet so could have changed but you are quite right slimmed milk powder would be even lower
odd, my datasheet says Vitamealo is 16% oil. It is a very old datasheet so could have changed but you are quite right slimmed milk powder would be even lower
In reply to Post #10
What would you use for liquids to stay in that "winter mode" bait?
What would you use for liquids to stay in that "winter mode" bait?
In reply to Post #11
personally cod liver oil or winterised salmon oil.
personally cod liver oil or winterised salmon oil.
In reply to Post #11
I still love CSL, very low in fat and very water soluble
I still love CSL, very low in fat and very water soluble
In reply to Post #7
I used to use that bait with Hutchy choc malt, and Solar white choc powder. It was my go to winter mix for Roach Pit in the 90s.
Personally I'm not keen on soya in my baits so I wouldn't use the vanilla meal (which is vanilla flavoured soya meal used in pig feed). Condensed Milk would be a good choice, the Mainline profile plus one is excellent
I used to use that bait with Hutchy choc malt, and Solar white choc powder. It was my go to winter mix for Roach Pit in the 90s.
Personally I'm not keen on soya in my baits so I wouldn't use the vanilla meal (which is vanilla flavoured soya meal used in pig feed). Condensed Milk would be a good choice, the Mainline profile plus one is excellent
In reply to Post #14
I was thinking about vanilla meal in my mix then this stuff was next to spirulina in tescos
funktional vanilla
Not sure I'll use it in a mix (or spirulina now) but it might be useful.
Why don't you like soya?
I was thinking about vanilla meal in my mix then this stuff was next to spirulina in tescos
funktional vanilla
Not sure I'll use it in a mix (or spirulina now) but it might be useful.
Why don't you like soya?
In reply to Post #15
I don't like soya just through experience tbh. I know on paper it adds to AA's etc, but every time I've tried to 'improve a bait' by altering the recipe, and adding it, the reaction from the Carp has been the opposite. I don't like the way it dominates, taste wise. This comes from over 30 years trying on and off btw, so now it's not something I will add individually (tho I suspect it may be present in some birdfoods)
I don't like soya just through experience tbh. I know on paper it adds to AA's etc, but every time I've tried to 'improve a bait' by altering the recipe, and adding it, the reaction from the Carp has been the opposite. I don't like the way it dominates, taste wise. This comes from over 30 years trying on and off btw, so now it's not something I will add individually (tho I suspect it may be present in some birdfoods)
In reply to Post #14
Isn't that odd. I have added soya to baits and seen a clear improvement in catch rates. Taken it out add it's goes down again
I must confess that was with micronised soya from Copdock Mill but the bait was better with it. I sold tons of that bait back in the 00's
Isn't that odd. I have added soya to baits and seen a clear improvement in catch rates. Taken it out add it's goes down again
I must confess that was with micronised soya from Copdock Mill but the bait was better with it. I sold tons of that bait back in the 00's
There's numerous varieties of soya flour about, not fair to lump them all together.
Although I agree with NW, I wouldn't use it unless I had to.
Although I agree with NW, I wouldn't use it unless I had to.
In reply to Post #10
The one I looked at was CC Mooore but as there are so many milk powders out there it could be anywhere between 15-25% tbh!
The one I looked at was CC Mooore but as there are so many milk powders out there it could be anywhere between 15-25% tbh!
In reply to Post #19
is live system just a cede milk powder bait?
I might have a play around with some mixes tonight, I do like the idea of something soluble in colder temps, I like the visual of it as well.
is live system just a cede milk powder bait?
I might have a play around with some mixes tonight, I do like the idea of something soluble in colder temps, I like the visual of it as well.
In reply to Post #20
I was talking about their vitamealo in reference to Smurf's post but yes, to answer your question it's a milk/birdfood type bait with some yeasts etc. Personally don't rate it but I know it's popular with some.
I was talking about their vitamealo in reference to Smurf's post but yes, to answer your question it's a milk/birdfood type bait with some yeasts etc. Personally don't rate it but I know it's popular with some.
In reply to Post #21
live system was the first comparison I could draw.
ill have a play around later.
see if I can find some condensed milk flavouring anywhere.
live system was the first comparison I could draw.
ill have a play around later.
see if I can find some condensed milk flavouring anywhere.
In reply to Post #22
As mentioned the Mainline one is very good. probably the easiest one to find.
As mentioned the Mainline one is very good. probably the easiest one to find.
In reply to Post #23
ive been looking into the vanilla meal (as mentioned, probably wont use this now if it is highly soya based) and also tigernut/peanut meals, am I right in assuming they will be very high in fat/oil?
I'm happy with my fishmeal bait as it does breakdown nicely in current temps but I'm not sure how soluble it will be in the next 4 months when temps drop even more.
id be using NW's mix as a base but id like to add some brewers yeast and maybe some casein?
ive been looking into the vanilla meal (as mentioned, probably wont use this now if it is highly soya based) and also tigernut/peanut meals, am I right in assuming they will be very high in fat/oil?
I'm happy with my fishmeal bait as it does breakdown nicely in current temps but I'm not sure how soluble it will be in the next 4 months when temps drop even more.
id be using NW's mix as a base but id like to add some brewers yeast and maybe some casein?
In reply to Post #24
BAF do a good peanut meal that's only 12% fat if you decide to go down that route.
Many peanut meals are higher in fat.
BAF do a good peanut meal that's only 12% fat if you decide to go down that route.
Many peanut meals are higher in fat.
In reply to Post #25
you used nut meals in the winter sam?
any problems/benefits?
you used nut meals in the winter sam?
any problems/benefits?
In reply to Post #24
d be using NW's mix as a base but id like to add some brewers yeast and maybe some casein
Think I'd drop the Cede to 3oz and add 10z of brewers yeast and 1oz of wheatgerm. No need for casein imo. Prefer SG60 to maize meal though.
d be using NW's mix as a base but id like to add some brewers yeast and maybe some casein
Think I'd drop the Cede to 3oz and add 10z of brewers yeast and 1oz of wheatgerm. No need for casein imo. Prefer SG60 to maize meal though.
In reply to Post #27
using SG60 in my fishmeal mix, smells lovely in the bag I think
10oz of brewers yeast? surly that's 1oz?
using SG60 in my fishmeal mix, smells lovely in the bag I think
10oz of brewers yeast? surly that's 1oz?
In reply to Post #6
aren't cede and nectarblend pretty much the same thing?
aren't cede and nectarblend pretty much the same thing?
In reply to Post #28
sorry, yes. 1oz 3-5% enough for yeast imo
sorry, yes. 1oz 3-5% enough for yeast imo
In reply to Post #26
I have done but don't anymore.
Depends what you want to do protein wise (see other thread for my thoughts on this in winter).
There's better sources of protein than nut meal that's for sure.
That being said, a sweated up nut bait can be an awesome catcher! But that's nothing to do with the protein aspect.
I have done but don't anymore.
Depends what you want to do protein wise (see other thread for my thoughts on this in winter).
There's better sources of protein than nut meal that's for sure.
That being said, a sweated up nut bait can be an awesome catcher! But that's nothing to do with the protein aspect.
In reply to Post #29
I think you could use pretty much any yellow egg food types tbh. It's just that was the combo I used back then. Cede has some added bits that Necta didn't. The Orlux and Versele Laga ones are good.
And yes, swapping an ounce for yeast as per Jim's suggestion is no bad idea.
My recipe is old, as I said, 92 I started using it, so it almost certainly can be bettered (hydro Whey for example) but my reason for posting it was really as it was simple in being just 5 powders, and it rolls OK too.
I think you could use pretty much any yellow egg food types tbh. It's just that was the combo I used back then. Cede has some added bits that Necta didn't. The Orlux and Versele Laga ones are good.
And yes, swapping an ounce for yeast as per Jim's suggestion is no bad idea.
My recipe is old, as I said, 92 I started using it, so it almost certainly can be bettered (hydro Whey for example) but my reason for posting it was really as it was simple in being just 5 powders, and it rolls OK too.
In reply to Post #31
Sugars, and kick started with amylase, perchance, Sam?
Sugars, and kick started with amylase, perchance, Sam?
In reply to Post #33
I am fond of playing with amylase but not in a boilie mix!
On the right lines though. You've either been listening to my podcast or you think the same as me
I am fond of playing with amylase but not in a boilie mix!
On the right lines though. You've either been listening to my podcast or you think the same as me
In reply to Post #33
That's the line I'm taking with my mix(as well as yeast and bacterial activity) . A couple of things over the last 18 months have piqued my interest, but I've only been able to do one at a time with a ready rolled bait. Add to that a recent revelation (for me at least) and I've got to give it a go.
That's the line I'm taking with my mix(as well as yeast and bacterial activity) . A couple of things over the last 18 months have piqued my interest, but I've only been able to do one at a time with a ready rolled bait. Add to that a recent revelation (for me at least) and I've got to give it a go.
In reply to Post #33
Are you still using the alcotec then mate?
Steve.
Are you still using the alcotec then mate?
Steve.
In reply to Post #36
Hi Steve,
Yep, same one you suggested. Great product
Hi Steve,
Yep, same one you suggested. Great product
In reply to Post #32
Great reply. That recipe looks a good bet as a base to tinker with a few additions of modern ingredients. Including a nutritional liquid like csl
Great reply. That recipe looks a good bet as a base to tinker with a few additions of modern ingredients. Including a nutritional liquid like csl
In reply to Post #38
So I've worked out that my mix has 11% fat per kilo dry mix, which will increase with hemp oil and eggs.
Is this a concern? The baits been doing well but I have a nagging worry about the fat!
So I've worked out that my mix has 11% fat per kilo dry mix, which will increase with hemp oil and eggs.
Is this a concern? The baits been doing well but I have a nagging worry about the fat!
In reply to Post #39
It sort of depends where the oil content comes from?
It sort of depends where the oil content comes from?
In reply to Post #40
Predominantly it's coming from the lamlac, soya, clo and nut meals
Predominantly it's coming from the lamlac, soya, clo and nut meals
In reply to Post #41
rnt nut meals High in fat/oils?
I'm going to try a seed/nut base mix in the next few weeks I think.
rnt nut meals High in fat/oils?
I'm going to try a seed/nut base mix in the next few weeks I think.
In reply to Post #41
Lamlac is 100% fine in winter. soya is OK if levels are not too silly. CLO is different from one supplier to the next in my experience, I tend not to use it for that reason (little consistency). It should be OK though as its not that high in oil when you look at the overall mix.
The nut meals would concern me the most. They need to be fresh as the oils in nut meals oxidise quite quickly. This is always the case with nut meals, nut just this time of year, and is the one reason I don't tend to use them. When I did use them I milled my own (with a coffee grinder) so they are fresh for the mix
Lamlac is 100% fine in winter. soya is OK if levels are not too silly. CLO is different from one supplier to the next in my experience, I tend not to use it for that reason (little consistency). It should be OK though as its not that high in oil when you look at the overall mix.
The nut meals would concern me the most. They need to be fresh as the oils in nut meals oxidise quite quickly. This is always the case with nut meals, nut just this time of year, and is the one reason I don't tend to use them. When I did use them I milled my own (with a coffee grinder) so they are fresh for the mix
In reply to Post #43
Just a thought that I've had but if for instance we said that an acceptable fat content would be 10% and we used micronised cereal, de fatted soya, skimmed milk powder etc then you could make a virtually fat free bait? Would it therefore mean that we could add say 6% fat as a bulk oil like cod liver, winterised salmon therefore needing 60ml ish oil/kilo of mix and still come in at less than 10% oil. I'd be happier being in control of which oil source was in the bait.
Just a thought that I've had but if for instance we said that an acceptable fat content would be 10% and we used micronised cereal, de fatted soya, skimmed milk powder etc then you could make a virtually fat free bait? Would it therefore mean that we could add say 6% fat as a bulk oil like cod liver, winterised salmon therefore needing 60ml ish oil/kilo of mix and still come in at less than 10% oil. I'd be happier being in control of which oil source was in the bait.
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