Hi I want to try some pigeon conditioner now the advertising blurb says haiths red band is the best? or is there a similar product out there that's as good and cheaper?
In reply to Post #1
Don't believe the blurb, save your money & get a cheap one. Absolutely no need to spend the sort of money Haiths are asking. Get down your local feed merchant & expect to pay around £16 a sack.
Don't believe the blurb, save your money & get a cheap one. Absolutely no need to spend the sort of money Haiths are asking. Get down your local feed merchant & expect to pay around £16 a sack.
In reply to Post #1
What nick says. Haiths charge huge prices for particles you can buy for half the price elsewhere. Get yourself a sack of bucktons stuff
What nick says. Haiths charge huge prices for particles you can buy for half the price elsewhere. Get yourself a sack of bucktons stuff
In reply to Post #1
https://www.yell.com/s/seed+and+grain+merchants-wales.html
Any contenders in the link above?
https://www.yell.com/s/seed+and+grain+merchants-wales.html
Any contenders in the link above?
Another vote for Bucktons at about £14 for 20 kg or even cheaper if you look around.
In reply to Post #1
I sold pigeon feed and straights for nearly 20 years, the 2 most popular brands by far were bucktons and Bamfords TK condition. Personally I would pick Bamfords but both are clean and consistent.
I sold pigeon feed and straights for nearly 20 years, the 2 most popular brands by far were bucktons and Bamfords TK condition. Personally I would pick Bamfords but both are clean and consistent.
Please don't forget that Haith's business is 95% birdfood (cage, aviary and wildlife) and 5% Angling.
The C & A & W markets expect their purchases to be not just clean, but super clean so all HB's seed is supplied thus. This process costs money as does obtaining the freshest seeds available throughout the world.
The R & D team at Haith's, which includes Professor John E Cooper, has introduced a quality control testing regime to ensure that the quality of any cage bird diet is of paramount importance and what appears an attractive “special cheap offer” should always be treated with caution when buying feed for cage, aviary or wildlife birds. Inferior seeds are usually old and lacking the living constituent that is important both for germination and the bird's nutrition. Any seed or seed mixes supplied by Haith's are super cleaned and free from contaminants, as dust is harmful to a bird's respiratory system and extraneous husk can damage delicate tissues and allow entry of pathogens.
So please bear in mind that you are primarily buying food intended for C & A & W birds, not coarse fish, with the attendant costs involved. Thereafter the choice is entirely up to you.
(Whether super clean seed is desirable or even necessary when choosing a fishing bait is debatable.)
The C & A & W markets expect their purchases to be not just clean, but super clean so all HB's seed is supplied thus. This process costs money as does obtaining the freshest seeds available throughout the world.
The R & D team at Haith's, which includes Professor John E Cooper, has introduced a quality control testing regime to ensure that the quality of any cage bird diet is of paramount importance and what appears an attractive “special cheap offer” should always be treated with caution when buying feed for cage, aviary or wildlife birds. Inferior seeds are usually old and lacking the living constituent that is important both for germination and the bird's nutrition. Any seed or seed mixes supplied by Haith's are super cleaned and free from contaminants, as dust is harmful to a bird's respiratory system and extraneous husk can damage delicate tissues and allow entry of pathogens.
So please bear in mind that you are primarily buying food intended for C & A & W birds, not coarse fish, with the attendant costs involved. Thereafter the choice is entirely up to you.
(Whether super clean seed is desirable or even necessary when choosing a fishing bait is debatable.)
In reply to Post #7
Bucktons business is 100% bird food and 0% fishing and they don't feel the need to rip their customers off with horrendous pricing... Try and justify it any way you like Ken, but the truth remains their prices are awfully high. If they were a little higher than others they may sell more to the angling world, but as they seem to charge double if not more than others then the farm shops etc will always be first choice to a vast majority of the angling world. It's weird as the base mixes they sell I think are very reasonably priced, and as you say the angling market is a tiny % of their trade
Bucktons business is 100% bird food and 0% fishing and they don't feel the need to rip their customers off with horrendous pricing... Try and justify it any way you like Ken, but the truth remains their prices are awfully high. If they were a little higher than others they may sell more to the angling world, but as they seem to charge double if not more than others then the farm shops etc will always be first choice to a vast majority of the angling world. It's weird as the base mixes they sell I think are very reasonably priced, and as you say the angling market is a tiny % of their trade
In reply to Post #7
All the bigger bird feed companies sell and produce mixes for cage & aviary, pigeon and wild birds and in my experience they all clean, dust extract and in some cases polish there blends and straights. If they didn't, they would not sell anything as all bird keepers are ultra fussy.
Haiths are good but also very pricey. Does the quality of their products justify the higher costs, the buyer decides that ultimately. Most have a ceiling of what they will pay, this means haiths miss out to all but the most dedicated and those with a higher level of disposable income.
I shifted around 14t of corn a week made up of bucktons, Bamfords, ae james, VL, marimans, vanrobaeys, natural,bjf etc. I did have a haiths account but sold a fraction of there products in comparison to those listed.
For fishing I still maintain you can't go far wrong with any of the above manufacturers. You pays your money and makes your choice
All the bigger bird feed companies sell and produce mixes for cage & aviary, pigeon and wild birds and in my experience they all clean, dust extract and in some cases polish there blends and straights. If they didn't, they would not sell anything as all bird keepers are ultra fussy.
Haiths are good but also very pricey. Does the quality of their products justify the higher costs, the buyer decides that ultimately. Most have a ceiling of what they will pay, this means haiths miss out to all but the most dedicated and those with a higher level of disposable income.
I shifted around 14t of corn a week made up of bucktons, Bamfords, ae james, VL, marimans, vanrobaeys, natural,bjf etc. I did have a haiths account but sold a fraction of there products in comparison to those listed.
For fishing I still maintain you can't go far wrong with any of the above manufacturers. You pays your money and makes your choice
In reply to Post #8
Incredibly well said. I have never used Haiths, simply because of their prices. Unquestionably they offer a great range of top class products, and if I were looking for bird feed for birds (as stupid as it sounds) then I'd consider using them. To chuck in a lake for a few fish? Cost is key for me, for essentially the same product
Incredibly well said. I have never used Haiths, simply because of their prices. Unquestionably they offer a great range of top class products, and if I were looking for bird feed for birds (as stupid as it sounds) then I'd consider using them. To chuck in a lake for a few fish? Cost is key for me, for essentially the same product
In reply to Post #7
That argument doesn't hold any water. I went to see a chap yesterday that happens to be involved in the Queen's pidgeons and we got talking about seed/conditioner. They don't use haiths and they aren't exactly strapped for cash.
That argument doesn't hold any water. I went to see a chap yesterday that happens to be involved in the Queen's pidgeons and we got talking about seed/conditioner. They don't use haiths and they aren't exactly strapped for cash.
Not defending Haiths in anyway but you get 25kg of red band for 26.80 Bucktons and Bamfords are 20kg sacks so if you do the pro-rata thing Haiths it's only 17.20 for 20kg hardly a vast difference.
Yes, Haith's are expensive... I've had enough...I surrender, OK? 
In reply to Post #12
I only pay £14 for the bucktons so it's quite a chunk cheaper. And when you compare tiger nut prices...
Plus it works out at over £21 for 20kg of redband, it's over £1kg...
I only pay £14 for the bucktons so it's quite a chunk cheaper. And when you compare tiger nut prices...
Plus it works out at over £21 for 20kg of redband, it's over £1kg...
In reply to Post #15
Thanks for the answers everyone and sorry ken for putting you on the firing range !
Thanks for the answers everyone and sorry ken for putting you on the firing range !
In reply to Post #16
I hardly think that's your fault. It was the direction the thread was always going to go once certain posters commenced..
I hardly think that's your fault. It was the direction the thread was always going to go once certain posters commenced..
£19 for 25kg is what I pay to pick up local, not the cheapest but I'm happy.
In reply to Post #17
It was the direction the thread was always going to go once certain posters commenced..
An excellent observation, Jason. They are quite predictable, aren't they!!
Like Cornwallis I surrender the field.
It was the direction the thread was always going to go once certain posters commenced..
An excellent observation, Jason. They are quite predictable, aren't they!!
Like Cornwallis I surrender the field.
In reply to Post #17
ok as a newbie to the forum I will keep my head down as you are obviously in the know
ok as a newbie to the forum I will keep my head down as you are obviously in the know
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