|
|
|
|
Don't know if Pete still comes on here. If he does I hope he does not mind me posting this for the previous poster:
OK after so many requests here are a couple of simple base mixes to base your own baits around. There is nothing clever here just simple balanced nutrition and if you take any of these as a base and then add your chosen attractors you won’t be going far wrong.
BM1 (basic HNV mix)
30% LT94 fishmeal
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
13% Egg based bird food like CeDe
10% Semolina
10% Soya flour (heat treated)
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
5% Equivite
Depending on the exact brand of milk powder and bird food you use this will give you a bait with over 50% crude protein and about 10% oil content. Although they sound a little high it will come down if you add a few attractors to it yourself. If you really want to know the FLAA is Phenylaline, the 2nd is Methionine and the 3rd is Threonine……but all are plenty high enough to allow the carp maximum utilisation of the protein in the bait.
I have deliberately left the solubles a little on the low side so that you can add your own soluble attractors such as Betaine, MSG, liver powder etc without the bait falling to pieces in the water after 10 minutes!
Now another mix I have played with and had some promising result on before I stopped bait development was slightly different. Lower fish meal due to increased costs and slightly higher energy was the initial goal.
BM2
22% Poultry protein meal
20% LT94
10% Maize Protien Meal 60% (supergold 60)
10% pre-digested fishmeal
10% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
7% Micronized Soya meal
6% Semolina
2.5% Micronised crushed hemp
2.5% Equivite
Again the crude protein level is above 50% but the lipids levels are higher. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd LAA are the same as the above mix although the balance is not quite as good. As with BM1 you can add your attractors to this. If you find it too soft (I like it that way and the attractors can just pour out) then try adding 2 or 3% egg albumin.
For a simple bait take any of these and add 20ml per Kg of good quality oil such as Cod liver or Salmon, a few ml of flavour if you want some and 8-10 eggs per Kg of base mix.
Two of the best recipes you will ever encounter...Nothing more needs saying 
|
|
|
|
Absolute bait making novice here. To be honest, I have no clue what I've got and what I need to make a good boilie. some bait making ingredients came up on the bay and for 99p, I thought what's the worst that can happen!
my question is do I need any other ingredients to make my own boilies. what I've bought is
Spirulina 4x1kg unopened
Blood powder 1kg unopened
Egg albumen 1kg unopened
Whole egg powder 5kg unopened
Hearing meal 5lg approx opened
Fine oyster shell 2kg approx opened
Clo 10kg approx opened
Tiger nut meal and flour 15kg.
I'd like to give it a try and if it all goes terribly wrong, I'm not losing anything really. just need a little push in the right direction. thanks
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #578
Beetroot powder for redness. Pretty darn powerful and natural
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #579
Should be okay especially if you add 20ml of oil.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #578
thanks, do you think that the mix will roll ok ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #577
That mix will catch fish, so I think my advice would be to go for it. However if iy was me I think you are wasting money on Robin Red, it's not the ingredient it used to be and is an expensive red colouring. I would replace it with 50g of paprika and up the Clo tp 150g.
Clo and supergold have very different properties, supergold will add protein to your mix but not a lot else, Clo provides some binding properties, carbohydrates and oil but it is easily digestible, it's an ingredient I use a lot.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #576
Hi all,
Prior to buying ingredients for a test mix I would appreciate any feedback on this mix.
Semolina 100g
Soya 100g
CLO 100g
Supergold 60 100g
LT-94 250g
CPSP-90 100g
WPC-80 100g
Robin Red 100g
GLM 20g
Beef Liver Powder 20g
Garlic Powder 10g
Not sure if I have the soubles and binders at the correct ratio.
Do CLO and Supergold offer the same properties ?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #574
How do you mean hold the boilie together like lt94 ? In terms of binder or its qualities ? If you mean as a binder then it won’t make a difference as neither will help bind.
Also not sure how buoyant insect meal is. Never used it but if it’s anything like krill or shrimp meal you won’t get near 30% without the bait being great pop ups.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
I'm toying with the idea of a making the BM1 recipe, I'm just trying to think outside the box like we all do... is it possible to exchange the 30% LT94 fishmeal for Insect meal, or even swap out say 15% and add 15% insect meal?
I'm just not sure if the fishmeal is something that holds the boilie together better than the insect meal? I'm thinking along the lines of 'The Bug'
I just nee to bite the bullet and start experimenting I guess but it would be interesting to hear you thoughts.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #570
I wouldn't bother with krill essence (not needed) or robin red (very overrated)
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #571
Only 1 egg
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #570
That's a lot of liquids, are you not using eggs?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #569
Hello guys thats is my mix but i think need more proteins what i need change or add
Standar fish meal 300gr
Clo 100gr
Fish Pelets milled 300 gr
Blood plasma 50 gr
Chill powder 40gr
Cornmeal 100gr
Soya 100gr
Black pepper 10 gr
Liquids
CSL 230ml
Krill liquid 80 ml
Robin red liquid 40ml
Belechan liquid 50ml
Krill essence 0.4ml
What i need to add or change ?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #568
It is mate, thank you for your input and a base to work with. I feel I'm getting a lot better understanding now as the topic has me researching this that and anything related to better get a feel for the science of it. Not been able to put my mixing bowl down for the last few months. I've got carp in a very large tank, it's fascinating watching them feed on different recipes. Sometimes they hang above it as if taking in the taste, then another few tweaks and they're right down on it 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #567
Its a great feeling when your own bait works well. Sorry I didn't reply you your other message, I seemed to miss it.
|
|
|
|
|
I've successfully incorporated blue cheese powder into this bm1 mix with a few other bits, swapped over and had 2 x 30's this weekend out of a tricky 64 acre pit forst time ising it .
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #563
Could you tell me mate please, I've brought the ingredients to make this BM1 mix for this forthcoming season, how would you go about adding blue cheese powder into this mix, id like to put it in at a reasonable amount, would you just add it into the completed basemix at say 100g onto of your completed bm1 mix making the overall basemix 1100g? I've got some yeasts to chuck in on top and a spice powder, would they be o.k to chuck in in small amounts on top of the 1100g aswell?
Thanks in advance?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #564
A combination strawberry flavour with cinnamon EO works ? Need for my winter mix. Ty.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #563
Thank you !
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #562
Candy sweet is a thaumatin based sweetner. Red Karpi was a flavour originally sold by Duncan Kay.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458
Hi Smurf, what are candy sweet and karpi ? Thank you !
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
I bought some Lamlac instead of Vitamelo. Would this be any good or would I have been better off with Vitamelo ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #559
Brilliant cheees bud have ordered the ingredients only one I struggled to find in small quantities was the equivite
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #558
Do the same pal do a 1 egg mix. Get that right and move up. 8-9egg for a kg of powder roughly then you get an idea of how much basemix will be needed to make 3kg and so on.
One mix I make takes 1100ml of eggs and liquids per 2kg of basemix , makes 3.2kg of bait every time.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #557
Trial and error then ok mate thanks for the advice have only really done hookbait sized mixes for pop ups etc so rolling larger quantities is still new to me
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #556
All eggs sizes are different pal. Easier to make a 25egg mix for example with the liaisons and oils and add the powders to it.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #554
And has anyone worked out how many eggs for 3kg of that base mix??
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #554
Ok sweet thanks guys
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #553
Yep - all depends on the amount of liquid (egg size, hydros etc) that you use.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #551
So 1kg of base mix would give 1.4-1.6kg of finished bait??
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #551
Forgive my appalling maths what does that work out to for say 10kg lol assuming I’m using min recommended levels
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #550
You will get 1.4 to 1.5 times the basemix 
|
|
|
|
|
I hope someone can help me going to use the bm1 mix from post 77 and I wondered if anyone could tell me a rough estimation of how many kg of finished boilies say 10,20,30,40kg of dry mix will make obv I know there are variables such as liquids and eggs but just a rough estimation would be great
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #548
Smurf,
Thanks so much, new to it and just didn’t want to try and go at it, as I would not know if done rightly or wrongly.
Really appreciate your help.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #546
I thought it was clear '...you can add your own soluble attractors such as Betaine, MSG, liver powder etc' but to clarify
these sort of things are normally added at a few % so that's what I meant, just a few %  They are normally listed by suppliers as Bait Additives.
Honestly you can use almost any flavour you like but go for quality not quantity! Lots of really good flavours available that attract/trigger carp to investigate and/or feed. What they smell like to you is almost irrelevant unless you intend to live on them whilst fishing 
At the moment I am playing around with a couple of flavours from BAF baits. My pond fish really home in on them. BAF don't have a huge range so I suspect that what they do sell are the 'better' ones that they have.
The bait will work without a flavour, many have gone this route.
I would change the Equivite for 1% Selenavite these days and add a good amount of a hydro liquid
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #546
Interested in the answer to this aswell
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Guys and girls.
I’m like so many new to this world of bait making.
This recipe sounds perfect for what I’m looking for, seems to have every base covered.
I would like a few questions answered if could ask the following :
When the author mentions soluables to be added at what quantity’s?
Flavours is there a really good match that people have used, and what amount to a kilo .
Thanks guys appreciate any help on above.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #544
Long story! I sold it before I got to use it.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #539
Hi Sam, how did you get on with electric sausage gun? Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
Shout out to SMURF for being a legend 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #541
If I had the cash handy I would, sooner use 50 quid of the money for the electric gun on bulk base mix ingredients.
saving 5quid a kilo of bait I'm happy to gun it out by hand.
thanks for the link, will get one ordered.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #540
If you’re going to get an electric anyway I would just go ahead and get one! Perfect for small to mid sized mixes.
Manual guns truly are a pain in the backside.
If you’re adamant you want a manual, this 600ml one looks ok-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114094074471
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #539
thanks sam, will pick up a manual from screw fix.
ill get all the mixes down and tested before going all out with an electric gun.
running before walking comes to mind! 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #538
There’s a cheapish electric caulk gun on eBay that a few people are raving about. Costs £90 which is far cheaper than similar styled guns by the big brands.
I’ve just ordered one, will let you know what it’s like if you’re interested.
If you go pneumatic then 5mix have always been great.
If you decide on a manual gun just get a heavy duty caulk/sealant gun from Screwfix/eBay or similar for around £15.
You’ll find one that’s pretty much identical the the Gardner Delux model (which they charge £50 for).
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #537
First time poster resurrecting an old thread.
dabbled in bait making a few years back and had great success but a busy job make it hard to roll enough to sustain my needs.
I have time to get back on the rolling tables and I'm looking for a recommendation for a boilie sausage gun?
I own a gardner boilie gun but I tried to get a very stiff mix through it and stripped the threads on one of the bolts.
do the screwfix foil sealant guns to the same job? obviously have to cut the nozzle down to the required size.
thanks all
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #536
My advise would be to stick to a proven recipe as in post 1 until you know what you're doing. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
hi
i am new in boilies and i need your help !
i have a recipe and i need to know if are ok or must add more or...must modify:
Mix:
Squid Meal: 200g
Prosecto: 100g
Pre-digested fsh meal 100g
semolina 100g
clo 150g
Robinred 80g
WPC80 50g
Purifyed blood powder 50g
soya flour 100g
salt 20g
chili powder 10g
GLM 20g
Betain 20g
Liquid:
Black pepper oil: 1,5ml
Squid extract 30ml
Fruit flawor: 5ml
thanks
Sweetcorn sirup ?
CSL ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #533
About 7.5-8kg finished bait! As for number of individual baits, that depends on what size you roll! You will get more 10mm baits than you will 15mm & less 18mm baits than 16mm.
|
|
|
|
What is the flavoured essence to betaline ratio ?
Rule of thumb. 👍
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #532
How many boilies will i get from 6kg of BM1 basemix?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
May be giving BM1 a go later this year! only making small batches though due to money.
|
|
|
|
|
Hi all going to be rolling the bm1 this year could any body advise on a liquid attractor pack was thinking bafs bechalin hydro thanks
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #529
You don’t have to have it.
But if you wanted to have a vitamin/mineral in its place that is cheaper.
You could substitute Equivite for Crunchy Kelp meal
( £3.00 for 1 kilo ) from CCMoore
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #528
So i am looking at making BM1, ive never made baits beofre and wondered whether this would be alright. do i need equivite as im on a budget?
30 lt94
15 maize protien
13 megablend
10 semolina
10 soya flour
8.5 PDFM
8.5 Vitamelo
( all from ccmoore)
Is there anything else i need to add to the mix? i am unsure on what else to add.
cheers,
Hunter
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
So is the pinned post the final recipe for BM1?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Hi. Im making that mix a few time now and i saw it many times to become pop up... What is wrong??? I do something wrong or is any flour off??? Help me plz
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #524
Hardly simple and 60% binders. The Pete B mix is far more simple and better balanced and cheaper. Now, which one should I pick? 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #515
25% semolina
25% maiz meal
10% lt fismeal
10% soy meal full fat and toasted
8% egg powder
5% yeast
5% kelp
2% chili powder
5% milk powder
5% pre-digested fishmeal
30ml hydrolyzed fish liquid (krill, tuna, salmon, what you can find)
No eggs are needed due to the egg powder => use water to moisturize the mix
This mix is way below 4GBP/kg and catches every where
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #520
ive had a good bit of success using their HNV Spicy Red Fish & Bird, rolls very nice too
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #521
yes, that's their tried and trusted recipe. Squid and orange I think it is.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #520
Yes i will be trying patshull park. They recomended it too. With a squid flavouring!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #517
No. Go for the HNV mixes. They're only a bit more money and much better quality. Try the one I suggested, patsull Park. A good mix with a proven pedigree.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #518
Right so spend a little more and get the fishmeal base. I shall certainly go with that next
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #517
Errr... yes, that right. I’m sure it’s a very good 50/50 mix, but I’d expect MUCH better results with a cheap/simple fishmeal mix than a cheap/simple carbohydrate mix.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #516
Brilliant thanks.
Also in reply to the above post about quality baits. That stuffs relatively cheap right?? So say a kilo of the 50/50 plus eggs , oil and a flavour then im in business right???
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #515
50% fishmeal
40% nectablend/red factor/megablend ...or even even semolina
10% calf milk replacer or dried milk powder
Oil/flavour optional
Put it in the right place at the right time and a carp will happily eat this. If you want to play, you can add seaweed meal, yeast, shrimp paste, etc, etc...
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #514
Ive got ccmoore live system base mix and ive been rolling that myself. But want to start with something simple from scratch.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #512
If you don't know what some of the ingredients are then I suggest you buy a ready made base mix then roll it yourself. Something like Patsull Park base mix by Quality baits would be a good start point. It's also got krill in it.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #352
I like this a lot. Much more simple to follow. But say i want a krill boilie how much would i need instead of plum flavour??
|
|
|
|
Hey guys. New here and this is my first post. Me and a friend want to bring our bait costs down as much as possible. So i made the first move by using the ccmoore bait packs. Which has got me down to around 5.40 a kilo.
So my question is. As a newbie to bait rolling whats simple and cost effective for me to start on?
Ive read 90% of the posts and theres ingredients ive never heard of!
I thought it was simple like 2 or 3 dry ingredients plus flavour plus eggs and oil job done!
Look forward to your replies..
Keep rolling and tight lines!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #509
If you want to get the price down more then you need to factor in postage. BAF's CLO for example is a bit more expensive than the Ccmoore one (it's far superior too in my opinion) but buying it from BAF along with the other bits would bring the cost down as there's not a second lot of postage. Ccmoore would charge you £9.50 for the postage on your vanilla meal and clo.
Unless you're collecting of course in which case I'd still get the BAF clo as it's much better.
The BAF csl is very active, you'll be absolutely fine with that.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Hi guys,
Has anyone found a good rolling company that will roll BM1? I know it sounds lazy but with other commitments my fishing time is too short to spend it rolling bait. I’m just a little nervous that some bait rollers might substitute cheaper materials for those in BM1. Any recommendations much appreciated.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #508
molecular weight of aluminium hydroxide
well i've done another table with your suggestions smurf
the final price per kg looks very appealing no factoring the eggs in which i can imagine will drop the price per kg abit also?
The corn steep liquor is a few pounds cheaper from BAF than CC Moore, they both say there active is there any difference between them or im i fine going with BAF?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #506
Not sure that level of GLM is worth the effort (some use up to 10%) and I never tried with a level lower than 2.5% and at that level it was really tailing off in any noticeable affect.
Personally I still quite like this mix but swap half the Maize Protein meal for Vanilla Extract meal (which some hate but the carp love it) and then add 2% Spirulina and 1% Betaine and a little (10-20ml per kg of dry mix) CSL liquid when mixing
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #506
Just try making it as it is without adding anything apart from maybe some oil, you'll be pleasantly surprised
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Hello i've put together BM1 into a chart to see how much it would cost my additives are Betaine HCL at 1% and Green Lipped Mussel at 1% is this adequate or should i change the percentages of both?
any advice would be helpful
gaz.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Hi I can see loads of good recipes ..
But does anyone have an idea on pellet recipes ???
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Trying to put together a recipe for next year, any advice?
30% LT94 fishmeal
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
8% Robin Red
5% Meggablend
10% Semolina
10% Soya flour (heat treated)
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
5% Equivite? Is there anything similar on ccmoore I can use instead of this?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #501
However, for those who can afford to create the ultimate bait, how would we change it?
Simple.
Just take any time proven bait recipe and just apply it better, more often & to more areas in your venue, give the fish more free food without hooks, to get them really wanting it.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #501
The mix has all you need, why change for the sake of it? They are only fish, not gourmets in some high class restaurant. The only thing I would add to this mix is a good dollop of hydrolyzed fish liquid in with the eggs. Anything else is superfluous. In fact, I would take some things out rather than add them.
|
|
|
|
Hi all,
First post. Please be gentle...
Fascinating thread. Thanks to all who have contributed.
How would we change this mix if money was no issue? I know there is already a cheap bait thread and this appears to be a very good value HNV mix (and I note that smurf already clarified that it was a good value HNV, not a cheap HNV mix).
With limitless money, what would we change? Would we up the GLME/ RR/ Pre- dig?
I appreciate that not everyone can afford such changes and some would regard them as "buying your fish". However, for those who can afford to create the ultimate bait, how would we change it? Also, I know that the ultimate bait can be out fished off the next swim by a pack of shelf life tuttis....
|
|
|
|
Hello,
I need some help about these boilie mix.
100g megablend
100g soya
100g protein concentrate
100g tiger nut flour
100g cornflour
100g hemp/millet seeds
150g wheat biting
150g rye flour
50g lamlac
30g birdfood (minced)
20g peanut flour
Is this a good balance of foods?
Thanks a lot!
Regards,
Mario
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #498
That is what the search option is for mate.
Type into KEYWORDS, dip glug and tick the FORUM topic, bait, search.
plenty of posts on your subject of interest.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Changing the subject slightly, but does anyone know how I could make my own dip/glug for home-made boilies?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #496
Would that be a yes ??? Or what about a low oil peanut meal ??? It's only 40g that needs replacing in the mix
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #495
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #493
Post 458 mate was what I was referring to . 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #493
I was referring to the mix that smurf has tweaked the hydrolyzed poultry meal is no longer available was wondering if you could use either of the to instead
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #492
BM1 - Why change it ? it works, and you know it works 
Personally I think Pea protein is the latest bait fad, snapping at the heels of the other carp Tax buzzwords containing ...Krill, Tuna, and anything that is Nut based 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458
Hi all new to the forum . I have been using the original bm1 for a couple of years now very good bait put fishes all the bait my mates use . I've been looking at the below recipe and would it be possible to use hydrolyzed feather meal or yellow pea isolate powder as both have a good amino acid profile and protein content just a thought
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #490
See post #488 & reply at #499 (directly below your post) for your first answer
|
|
|
|
Hey.
I joined up just for this thread.
I'm going to be making baits for the first time and have some questions of you don't mind answering them for me please fella's ?
I can't find anywhere that sells hydrolysed poultry meal in the uk. Would it be ok just to use a a fish mean in its place like salmon or krill for example or can someone point me in its direction.
And when it's says the liquid element 10 eggs use 50ml of CSL and 5ml of your chosen attractors
Is that ten eggs per Kg ? Then 55ml per kg of base mix of liquids ??
Cheers
Callam
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #488
more fish meal maybe?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458
Could the Hydrolysied Poultry Protein be replaced with anything else!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Hi Guys I am from Slovakia
I would like to test the recipe and I would like to know whether Only HNV spring can I use coco milk as a sweetener,
or no. My question is It wil mustiness ??
200 g soya meal ,200 g maize meal, 200 g kasein , 100 g lactalbumin, 100 g fishmeal LT94, 200 g dry cocomilk, 15 ml cocooil, 15 ml Allamino nutric, 10 ml Bacterie septic, 5 ml coco flour 15 ml cocomilk 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #485
Yeah I used it at 10% consistency of the mix the same as normal eggs but when I did a tank test they went really soft after 15 hours. That is fine for me as I made my hookbaits up with normal eggs plus I glug them in glycerine and the shellfish liquid which hardens them right up.
Also I boil them so they still have a soft centre to keep as much nutrition and pulling power as possible
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #484
They look good, ive never used the megablend red and have usually used the megablend sweet.
Did you use egg powder or eggs? and how did you find it?
I have found when using it at 10% in a similar but more soluble mix that it doesnt quite bind as well and the baits breakdown a little quicker than using eggs which is fine for most of my fishing, but if i up the level to nearer 15% it gives a bait with very similar breakdown to the one made with eggs
|
|
|
|
Made 110kgs of this over the last week. Looking awesome, can't wait to get out in France and haul on them.
Check out the speckles from the megabled red. (Photos a bit cack)
|
|
|
|
Hi from Italy guys! Rolled a small batch yesterday,they are ready to be frozen and used through the weekend! I have already tested this bait with good results,but the one I made before were without equivite!
This one has 2,5% selenavite and 2,5% GLM.
As liquid part I used NHDC,Peach and OE black pepper.
16 mm baits steamed 5.45 minutes.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #481
No they don't but click the link on the post bud
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #480
I saw that but CC Moore don't sell that either? I'm new to all this but fancy having a crack at it.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #479
If you look at post 465 there is a link to selenavite E, which can be used instead of. I've just got home from fishing after trying my own mix.....lost 3 fish in the weed, but they do work great 
|
|
|
|
|
Guys how important is the Equivite in the BM1? I'm putting an order together on the CC Moore website but can't find it. I want to try and buy all ingredients from the same place for now .
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458
Could you swap poultry protein for hydrolyzed feather meal pete? Is candy sweet a strong powdered sweetener in that recepie?
|
|
|
|
Made my first batch of BM1 this morning..they came out great! I cant wait to get home from work to see how they have dried out !!
Thanks for the recipe and thanks for all the advice, looking forward to getting back to the rolling table...wife permitting!
Just another quick question I cant seem to find the Poultry protein meal for the BM2 anywhere on the CC Moore website, is this called something else? I apologise if it mentions this elsewhere in the thread but i havent seen it asked anywhere else
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #475
Cheers guys
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #469
I dont use the bm1 mix but a similar mix along the same lines and i use the ratio you mention of one kilo of whole egg powder per 10kilo of base.
For roughly one 1.1 kilo of mix i use 100mil of my liquid additives to 1/2 pint of water, it may not be exactly the same for your mix but will give you a starting point to work from
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #469
Not used it with this mix but as a starting point I use 250g of egg powder to a litre of water. This works out at (very) roughly 3kg of base mix. Liquids then added to that.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #472
yeah will take a drive as I live in the villages so lots of farms.....
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #471
Find your local farm shop and they will normally do a deal
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #470
LoL, my little 3 year old has just walked in and said WOW  That is a lot of bait! LOL
I don't think Tescos would sell me the amount of eggs I need 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #469
Sorry no I have not used it, I always used fresh eggs from local farms. They used to love seeing me walking up the drive with my wheel barrow to take home 200-300 eggs at a time
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #466
One question mate. I have always used real eggs in my mix, but going to be using Whole Egg Powder instead this time.
I have been reading on here to start at 1kg per 10kg base mix, so that is what I was going to start with but wondered if you or anyone else has used Whole Egg Powder in the BM1 before and if so what quantities did you use it in, per KG base mix & also how much water added?
Much appreciated, saves wasting bait in a trial and error....
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #460
Just put an order in with CCMoores for a French trip that came today. First time I have bought in higher quantities, works out much cheaper :
This is what I ordered (in kgs)
lt94 25
maize protein 25
megablend 12.5
semolina 12.5
soya flour 12.5
pre digested fishmeal 12.5
vitamealo 10
betaine 1
liquid shellfish Concentrate 2 litres
salmon oil 5 litres
Whole Egg Powder 10
Total 371.4
With 7% discount 345.402
Delivery charge 41
Total Delivered 386.66
I already have the Selenavite and 7 of the items will make much more than the 80kgs dry mix the LT94 & Shellfish will make
Top Bait - TOP TOP Prize - and a big for a 1 stop shop in the name of CCMoores.
Just got to roll this lot now!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #465
Thanks
All ordered up hopefully everything will be here by Friday
Just another question, I have some whey powder in my cupboard that won't get used, what could I substitute in the BM1 mix for this? Or is it even possible?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #465
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #464
Here you go Selenevite E, use at 2.5% and add something else you fancy to make up the other 2.5%. I used GLM powder on my latest batch.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #460
yeah i suppose it would save on postage too!
Im sure it has been said on this thread but im unable to find it now....could something else be used as a substitute for Equivite? as its very expensive and CC Moore dont have it.
Cheers!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #462
I just put an offer in on a new home so not very rich at all at the moment. 
Ill have a play with spirulina through the summer, as its an ingredient I've never used before and keep wanting to try it.
Thanks
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #461
I have used it in this bait at 2% and it made a difference (not as good if I left it out) BUT that's all I tried as I had little time to test like I used too. No idea as to a maximum, how rich are you feeling 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458
What is a good inclusion level in any bait for Spirulina in your opinion? Also what would you suggest is a maximum level for its inclusion?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #459
I tend to only use CC Moore these days. Used to shop around and get bits and bobs from all over the place but time is short these days so stick with one supplier
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458
Any recommendations of where I should order the ingredients.....CC Moore looks as good as any
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
To answer a couple of questions this mix can be used all year without any worries, many have done and still do and it has stood the test of time
I have used it as a basis for many baits including sweet, savory, meaty and fishy 'flavours'.....but not all at once 
I only fish a few hours a year now, work, family and other hobbies get in the way. Last year I managed about 3 or 4 nights and that was twice as many as the year before! However every now and then I get the bait books out, scratch my head and come up with a new mix (I say new but they are always a tweak of an existing mix). If you take BM1 and tweak it then you may end up with this.
20% LT94
20% Vanilla Extract Meal
17.8% Megablend
8% Crunchy Kelp Meal
8% Pre-digested fishmeal
10% Semolina
4% Supergold 60
4% Blood plasma
4% Hydrolysied Poultry Protein
2% Spirulina
1% Selenavite E
1% Betaine
0.3% (yes 0.3%!) Candy Sweet
per 10 eggs, 50ml CSL and 5ml Karpi
This mix has out-fished any other bait I have tried it against on various waters from club to day ticket to private lakes. Unfortunately the Poultry protein is no longer available and I have run out of Karpi and I am not about to order another production batch at crica £100 a go....so that's the end of that mix 
Later this year I might see what i can do to the above mix and take it to the next level, but it was so good I am not sure it will be easy to tweak it again
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #454
Yeah, it smells quite fishy even with no flavour in it. 1ml per kilo of John Bakers crab flavour can really help improve this naturally built in smell if you wanted a fishy bait.
JB crab is expensive to buy, but at 1ml/kg it goes a long way, making up to 100kg for the price.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #455
Great thanks you! I'm going to give these a go as my first attempt, now I'm going to order all the ingredients
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #454
I've used it with nothing but salmon oil and L030 and it's worked a treat, also used Squid and Octopus/Esterblend 12, also worked a treat. Basically just add any flavour you feel confident with. The basemix is quite distinct without adding anything and you have to add quite a bit of flavour to notice it really. I tend to add a small amount to the mixes then make some special hookbaits with more flavour and then put them in pots with a bit of glug.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #453
Thanks for the info bud. Does the BM1 Mix smell of anything if no flavouring is added? I'm assuming it's going to smell fishy because of the fish meal base?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #452
Its an all year round mix IMO, and yes you can add any flavour you like to it if you wanted to put one in. I liked it when i used it on a lake with strawberry flavour believe it or not. I used other flavours in it depending on which lake i rolled it for, but it seemed to take fruit or savory flavours really well.
|
|
|
|
I'm thinking of trying the BM1 mix. I've never done it before and never even heard of half the ingredients. Are we able to use this mix in winter time? Also do we just add our own flavourings to the mix?
|
|
|
|
Well I've just made a batch of BM1 and this time used CLO instead of Meggablend and all the stickiness problems I had last time had gone. In fact it rolled like a dream once I'd sorted out my liquid to basemix ratio. Whether it was just the change to CLO that made the difference I'm not sure as i got all my ingredients from a different source this time.
Just thought I'd mention it though as a few people were saying how sticky the mix was.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #449
If it ain't broke then why fix it ;-)
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #448
Ha ha, I had a feeling you might still be using it Pete 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #447
I still use a version of it, had some great sessions using it last year and will be using it again this year
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #446
I'm hopefully going to have a bit more time this year for bait making, so am going to give the BM1 a go again as I had good results when I last used it. Is anyone else still using it?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
excellent thread! Looking forward to having a play with this.
Thanks to everyone contributing!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #444
Yes it is cheaper, however the vitamealo/milk replacer offers binding and skinning properties, a creamy taste, some fats and a good oil content with some vitamins and minerals.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #443
Excellent thanks. I'm assuming Vitamelo is used to keep the cost down but WPC would be the preference if cost was not an issue?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #442
nope.
WPC is a higher quality binding ( but still soluble ) milk powder with a lot less oil content than the vitamealo.
|
|
|
|
|
Any harm in swapping out the Vitamealo in BM1 for WPC?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #440
I'm just wondering is any one using this mix still . Looking at using it , I usaly use a pre made Base mix but want a change.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #439
its slightly higher than 20 % . the main solubles are the vitamilo and predigested but the casien is semi soluble ( cannt remember wether its 2 % or 20 % )
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #438
Thanks for putting that up, is that one 20% soluble
atb Paul
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #437
33% LT94 Fishmeal
18% Pre digested fishmeal
18% Sluis CLO
12% vitamelo
10% Acid casein
3% kelp
3% robin red
1.5% feedstim xp
1.5% Liver powder
10ml salmon oil
10ml shellfish & plumb
my take on your recipe is you have 30 % solubkes within the mix in my summer baits i aim for about 20 % but winter i up this to 25 ish %
33% LT94 Fishmeal
10% Pre digested fishmeal
18% haiths CLO
10% vitamelo
10% Acid casein
5% kelp
10% robin red
2% GLM
2% Liver powder
10ml cod liver oil (per 5 eggs )
3ml shellfish & plumb (again per 5 eggs. ive never used this flavour so im just guessing at the level)
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #436
How does this sound, it's quite close Nutrabaits big fish mix, it works out about £4.50 kilo of boilie plus eggs
33% LT94 Fishmeal
18% Pre digested fishmeal
18% Sluis CLO
12% vitamelo
10% Acid casein
3% kelp
3% robin red
1.5% feedstim xp
1.5% Liver powder
10ml salmon oil
10ml shellfish & plumb
many thanks Paul
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #435
CLO would be fine as would any of the Megablends
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Thanks for a speedy reply
Do you know if the egg based bird food is the same as cc moores CLO
http://www.ccmoore.com/moores-clo-sluis-equivalent-p-557.html
or is that something different?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #433
Full fat but make sure it is heat treated (I think most is but worth checking)
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
should the soya flour be defatted or full fat?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #431
With the remaining 25g you could add kelp powder/seaweed meal or a little liver powder ( or both) to add more B vitamins and keep more built in attraction in the bait.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #429
Or find a source of Selenevite E and use at 25g per kilo leaving you 25g/kg to play around with
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #419
Try AA Baits in Warrington Daniel
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #428
what they sell that is equivalent to Equivate
Nothing really. Just add the attractor of your choice. Concentrated yeast or CSL powder would be good choices if your after something to replace Equivite.
Or find a source of Selenevite E and use at 25g per kilo leaving you 25g/kg to play around with. Betaine and Garlic powder? 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
I'm gonna knock this mix up and source the ingredients from CC Moore, but can anyone tell me what they sell that is equivalent to Equivate
cheers Paul
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #426
Feedstim.com would be worth a look.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #423
were would i get dmpt from
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #424
Like this! Try pressing "reply"! 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #142
How do I post on here
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #422
Thank you for your answer.
Dmpt is:
considered as the best feed lure, for both fresh water and sea water aquatic animals. In several lab- and field tests DMPT comes out as the best feed inducing stimulant ever tested. DMPT not only improves feed intake, but also acts as a water soluble hormone-like substance. DMPT is the most effective methyl donor available, it enhances the ability to cope with stress associated with catch / transportation of fish and other aquatic animals.
It is revert to as the fourth generation attractant for aquatic animals. In several studies it is showed that the attractant effect of DMPT is around 1.25 times better than choline chloride, 2.56 times betaine, 1.42 times methyl-methionine and 1.56 times better than glutamine.
Feed palatability is an important factor for fish growth rate, feed conversion, health status and water quality. Feed with good flavor will enhance feed intake, shorten eating time, reduce loss of nutrients and water pollution, and eventually improve efficiency of feed utilization.
High stability supports high temperatures during pellet feed processing. The melting point is about 121ËšC, therefore it can decrease the losses of nutrients in feeds during high temperature pellet, cooking or steaming processing. It is very hygroscopic, do not leave in open air.
This substance is silently being used by many bait companies.
Take a look at the reviews on the next tab.
Dosage direction, per kg dry mix:
Especially for use with aquatic animals including fish like common carp, koi carp, catfish, gold fish, shrimp, crab, terrapin etc.
In fish bait as an instant attractor, use up to a maximum of about 3 gr, in a long term bait use around 0.7 - 1.5 gr per kg dry mix.
With groundbait, stickmixes, particles, etc use up to around 1 - 3 gr per kg ready bait for creating a massive bait response.
Very good results can also be obtained adding this to your soak. In a soak use 0,3 -Â 1gr dmpt per kg bait.
DMPT can be used as an extra attractor alongside other additives. This is a very concentrated ingredient, using less is often better. If used too much the bait will not be eaten!
Because this powder has the tendency to clot it is best applied mixing it direct with your liquids in which it will dissolve completely to get an even spread, or smash it first with a spoon.
It costs about 3 £ for 25 gr
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #421
No idea what dpmt is but I would just stick to the Activator if I were you. 1 additive is enough.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Can anyone tell me if it makes sense to use all of the following additives in 1 mix?
Butyric acid (5 gr / 1000gr)
Dmpt (2 gr / 1000gr)
Mainline activator (15ml / 1000gr)
They seem to be great additives in any mix, but i was wondering if the activator doesnt cover the other 2 ?
since they are very strong, i dont want to over-do it...
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
just been to kingsley mill in cheshire they didnt have any of the ingredients for bm1 any ideas were i can get them from in cheshire
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #418
were do people get there flavours and additives from after a quick look they seem to make your homemade boilies quite a bit more expensive
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
What powdered additives have people used in this mix
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #415
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #409
did you "oil the table"ie put a little hemp oil or such like on a rag and wipe the the grooves with it?something I read in I think mark mckennas article
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #413
Get a kilo of semolina and mix it with a kilo of Nectarblend, Red factor or EMP, and roll that with eggs. 2 ingredients. Hows that?
And you'll catch loads with it too.
If you wanted really simple, leave out the semo, and roll the other half on its own. Don't get much simpler than that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #412
Has anyone got any uncomplicated boilie recipies using ingredients that i can get either from a supermarket or animal feed store ?
I'm going to be looking at making a few of my own this year for the first time and im getting weighed down with complicated recipies.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #411
Yes you could do. Change it for anything you like really. Sardine and Anchovy is my favourite fish meal too.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
On the second mix would it be suitable to change the poultry meal for sardine and anchovy??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I mixed up this base mix today and found the mix very sticky, sticking to the rolling table a lot
I tried leaving the mix for 10 20 and 30 minutes before rolling it was either to sticky or to dry that the gunned out sausages fell to bits when I tried putting them on the rolling table, any help would be great?
|
|
|
|
|
Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #406
Think I see what you mean. The additives all do slightly different things within the bait. To be honest if the base is good like the recipe above then you shouldn't need to add much. I tend to add 1 powder attractor like nash squid extract or robin red, krill etc, a bulk liquid food (molasses and anchovy sauce being two of my favourites) and a flavour/sweetener. The cajousers are good and sweeten/flavour the bait at the same time.
For example: 500g base mix +7.5g of squid powder+25mil of anchovy sauce+2.5mil of sweet cajouser and 12 drops black pepper oil.
No reason why you cant mix fishy with cream or fruit flavours.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #405
Cheers smirker, I'll take a look for that, I guess what I'm looking for are the reasons behind the different additives as there are similar flavours in different styles.
ie. cajousers,elites, oils
Do you need to add the other ingredients like liquid foods or natural attractors and what are there purpose are they required ?
Really just to get a handle on it to give me confidence when I make it.
Like I say I know a lot of its trial and error to which I'm perpared to do.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #404
Jay Riders E-books on his site (books on carp) well worth a look. Cheaper than buying a hard copy. What do you want to know exactly? Inclusion levels of attractors are on the bottles?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Do any of you experienced home made boillie makers know of any decent books on the subject ?
I have used nutrabaits base mixes to some success but now I have more time I would like to start experimenting a bit more, what I find most difficult is knowing what size quantities I need to be using of the various oils, cajousers, and elites, none of this info seems that available other than a few recipes on various portals to which I don't want to do the same as.
I know a lot of this is trial and error which I accept but being in the same ball park would be handy.
cheers for any help
|
|
|
|
Does anyone know where to get poultry protein meal from? Can't find it on aa baits website.
Could it be replaced with something else?
I've found a meat a bone meal which has 44% protein and 13% oil
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #401
Yes. BM1 can be rolled for about £4 per including eggs etc if you shop around. Maybe less.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Have you found that it is overall cheaper to make yourself 10kg of boils rather than buying from a company? Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
If you are having trouble with the bm1 being too soft for your particular application, I would recommend swapping the soya flour for rice flour or maize flour. This made the necessary difference in a basemix I have used for quite a few years to good effect. 2-3% blood powder seriously firms up the bait (I would think whey gel or blood plasma is comparable). Another simple trick is to sieve the mix for the hookbaits and boil those 30 secs longer than normal. Usually makes them a bit firmer for bit longer.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #397
300g LT94 fishmeal
150g Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
130g Egg based bird food like CeDe
100g Semolina
100g Soya flour (heat treated)
85g pre-digested fishmeal
85g Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
25g selenavite e
10g GLM powder
CSL 50ml
CLO 25ml
8-9 eggs
does that about right?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #395
like i said this is great help, and thanks for the discount code mate
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #396
so do 25g of GLM powder
how much CSL liquid should i put in?
and same with cod liver oil how much should i put in
with glm it depends on the depth of your pocket but i generally use 10 gms per kg
when i have used CSL i use it at 50 ml per kg
CLO i use at between 20 and 30 ml per kg
and.. would you suggest using flavoring or leave it with out?
peach and black pepper is a time honoured flavour combo
cranberry
tutti frutti
salmon
caviar
salmon / caviar
cranberry/ caviar
strawberry
cream
maple
the only flavours i use these days are nutrabaits and when it comes to flavour combos the worlds your oyster what ever flavour you go with stick with it . Its no good making a batch of bait 1 week with say strawberry and then next week make a batch with tutti
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #393
so do 25g of GLM powder
how much CSL liquid should i put in?
and same with cod liver oil how much should i put in?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #392
You can get Selenavite E from VetUK and if you use this code ORDER10 you get 10% off your first order.
They are the cheapest I have found.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #392
Lars28 links to some places to buy selenavite e in post 161. To be honest I've not brought any in a while. You may be able to get it cheaper if you shop around now.
I would use GLM or garlic powder and betaine or csl powder. I would also include CSL liquid, and some cod liver oil.
As for flavours, you could use any you fancy. Even some flavours you may not think about will go in this recipe. Try some of the Elites from Nutrabaits. If you don't fancy experimenting with flavours on this base mix, just choose a good fishy one, or even an essential oil. Orange oil or Clove being two of my favourites.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #391
cheers mate, really appreciate the help.
Just a few more questions and ill be on my way
what bait additive would you suggest??
The water i'm fishing get really weedy in the winter, and they love maize!
Also where can i get selenavite e from??
and.. would you suggest using flavoring or leave it with out?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #390
Use selenavite e at 25g per kilo. this will leave you 25g for an additive of your choice.
300g LT94 fishmeal
150g Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
130g Egg based bird food like CeDe
100g Semolina
100g Soya flour (heat treated)
85g pre-digested fishmeal
85g Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
25g selenavite e
25g additive of your choice.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
hi, what is smurfs mix in grams to make 1kg??
BM1 (basic HNV mix)
30% LT94 fishmeal
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
13% Egg based bird food like CeDe
10% Semolina
10% Soya flour (heat treated)
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
5% Equivite
Also should i use Equivite or Selenavite??
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #387
Supergold 60 is maize protein. If you scroll through this thread you will find a mix I have posted. Try that as it rolls a dream and very nutritious etc. It is a fish meal but will blend with a fruit flavour such as Essential baits shellfish plum and fruit factor 6 combo. If you decide to include per digested then whatever weight you include then remove that weight from the lt94.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #386
Hi mate,
Ok + would I have to replace anything to add in Pre-digested?
The lake I'm fishing they love maize!
I'm not too sure what the best base mix would be but they love yellow/white and maize sweet things (pineapple ect.) ! Do you have any suggestions for a good base mix?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #385
No need for maize flour and supergold 60. Just use supergold 60 for the whole weight of the two combined. Not sure about the pepper. Have you thought about Robin Red or combining some soluble pre-digested fishmeal?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
hi people im new to bollie making and want to make my own base mix!
here is what i have come up with-
125grms milk powder
125grms maize flour
125grms soya flour
125grms semolina
200grms mega blend or supergold 60
250grms lt94
80grms seaweed & kelp powder
7 1/2 ml salmon flavour
1/2 tea spoon sea salt
1/2 tea spoon crushed black pepper
8/9 eggs depending on size
Boil for 90 seconds to 2 mins
what do you guys think? any tip??
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #383
Fair point mate. Although the level maybe a little on the low side I am trying to make a long term bait for a campaign on a new water that I started in January. I was hoping that even low levels would increase attraction and the 'want it' factor due to the overall effectiveness of the inclusion of GLM. Increased nutrient profile etc.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #382
too little to come to the fore.I'd rather put 2% squid nash.
or I would put 5-10%glm but only in hookbaits.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #381
Thanks for the reply. Why do you think glm for hookbaits only mate? Cost? Rollability?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #380
my opinion
30% LT94
13% Supergold 60
15% Megablend
10% Semolina
10% Soya
6% Vitamelo
5% Krill meal
5% Robin red
6% predigest
put glm at higher doses only in hookbaits,make powdered dip...
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #379
I know Ken said that there is no need to tweak but can't help myself lol!!! Opinions please....
30% LT94
13% Supergold 60
15% Megablend
10% Semolina
10% Soya
8.5% Vitamelo
5% Krill meal
5% Robin red
3.5% GLM
Think it will roll ok? Will be making a hard version with albumin etc for hook baits.
|
|
|
|
hi all new to forum and bait rolling would like to know if this mix will roll any feed back will be well appreciated cheers all
200g megga blend
200g semolina
100g soya flour
100g whey protein concentrate
75g vitamaelo
125g egg albumen
200g tiger nut flour
2ml talin
5ml hazelnut essence
30ml liquid tiger nut
|
|
| | | Karlos | | Posts: 13062 |  | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #377
Whey is water soluble, so will soften up.
Depends what quality of Whey you get, some is more soluble than others
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #376
Seeing as I am only talking hookbaits maybe that's what I should do also. The albumin/whey seems to make the baits harder yes, but it doesn't seem to stop them going soft once in the water.
I am ashamed to say it but I had to resort to using some readymades on the hair over the weekend so they were still there in the morning!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #375
large volumes of semolina!..
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #374
Out of interest, is that what the commercial bait companies use?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #373
I am still having a problem with harder hookbaits
equal amounts of whey gel and egg albumin should firm them up abit more i would start at maybe 5% of each
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #368
I am still having a problem with harder hookbaits. I have made some up with 5% and 10% Whey Gel and they are like bullets. The only problem is that once in the water they are still softening up too quickly for my liking and am never confident that the bait is still there in the morning.
Is there anything else I can try as it is only the hookbaits I'm having a problem with?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #371
No not really mate. Just stick to the BM1 or 2 and you'll be onto a winner.
|
|
|
|
|
I have seen some recipes about I was wondering if dog kibble and chilli flakes would work as a boilie.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #369
Sorry all my stuff is HNV and to me a birdfood bait will never be HNV so I din't ever make any
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #368
cheers smurf will do! its a great mix, easy to roll and when you delve into the FLAA side, its better than 90% than some of the bait being sold out there!! my fishing buddy is using a bait made by one of the most popular who sell for £5-6 per kilo, and makes for untold online bait companies, when we compared , his had hardly any birdfood in it, very oily and seemed to be mainly semo, not being a bait buff im not sure 100% but the BM 1 looked so much better!!
As of interest, did you have any birdfoody type recipies to share? would love to tinker about with one of those too!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #367
Try making some harder hookbaits with blood plasma, wpc or whey gel. 5% of any one of these will make them harder :-)
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #366
cheers nellie, one thing i have found , i made a batch before which was great , but adding seaweed really brings out a fishy salty taste that is tops! its a very coarse mix which i love and i added only a half a ml of monster crab and half a mil of cranberry per egg, so 6 ml per 6 eggs. no sweetener. could i harden the bait slighlty by reducing the clo and adding semo ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #365
Could eat the myself mate.
|
|
|
|
|
Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #363
I've been reading this thread with interest, and it has got my mind racing with combinations and levels.
Peter(Smurf) deserves a commission from the ingredient suppliers, and from the rest of us for abusing his kind gesture!
I have been battling (albeit on paper), with some of the variations to BM1 listed in this thread. Specifically the inclusion of both GLME and betaine.
Can anyone clarify if additional betaine levels should be lowered/omitted altogether, given the levels that GLME already contains?
Would say 50g GLME provide enough betaine to negate its inclusion separately?
Perhaps adding a half dose of betaine to the hookbaits for added atttraction?
Obviously, I am trying to avoid the repellent effects that too much betaine can cause.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #361
Yes you can take the Poultry protein out and either adjust the other ingredients or like you say a 50/50 mix of fishmeal and bird food could work.
I never carried on with the development of the BM2, it was always an experiment to move away from fishmeal for commercial reasons....but the bait I make now I guess you could call the BM5 (3 and 4 soon got replaced in my bait own recipe book!) but only me and a couple of mates use it and it works very well
Having said that my BM5 is not that different to BM1....just tweaked here and there plus two other key ingredients I wanted to try
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #361
i too dont like using the poulty meal, ive used it in the past, but when it comes down to it I just like fishy baits not meaty baits o its a confidence thing with me.
I don't want to turn up on this thread and turn it into a bait company war, however just to add in response to AA baits I may look there but CCMoores have a loyalty scheme too even with the first order over £100 it goes to 5% off and goes up the more you spend plus freebies thrown in here and there so I personally may be swayed to look elsewhere but if it aint broke and all that
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #360
Ill have a good trawl through that website later. Thanks. With regards BM2 could the poulty protein be swapped for something esle? As to be honest ive used it before and hate the stuff. Maybe split the 220g 50/50 between another fish meal and a birdfood?
Also while your here why do you think everyone is all about the BM1? Also any idea if there will be a trilogy or quadrilogy to the BM saga?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #359
I used to get both from charnwood milling. My local farm feed shop used to order bags from them as it worked out cheaper than buying direct
|
|
|
|
Has any one got any links to a supply of micronized crushed hemp and soya meal for BM2 or is everyone on BM1?
Or any alternatives to the above?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #352
Also if you bought the products from AA baits you would probably save around a further £10-15
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #356
nice one cheers Peter.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #355
I used to get 1.3-1.4x the basemix weight of mixes like BM1
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #354
i worked it out at 1ml of liquid is 1 gram is that not correct then?
the weight of water is 1ml per gram....
and no i didnt take air drying into consideration suppose to get the exact cost I should weigh 1 mix after they have dried to my liking ....
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #353
you will be lucky to get 1.5kg of boilies from 1kg of base mix. The liquid weight in normally approx 0.2kg to 0.35kg depending on liquids used.
Depending on air dry time (shelf life vs freezer) i multi ply by 1.2 or 1.25 this should also cover you for a little wastage and spillage
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #352
ive just noticed the copy/paste in my table..... I used Vitamelo
|
|
|
|
I have put my mix into a table and carried out some basic calculations for anyone that is interested in a rough cost of the BM1 + a basic additives.
Price per kg mix including eggs & liquids = £5.51
5.51/ 1.5 (finished bait) £3.67
If you replace the ingredients in larger quantities when they run out the cost of the bait will come down, just in case you dont know how to do this, you can use the following equation.
Ingredient cost / ingredient amount(in grams) x amount per kg base mix
As I am just starting to make my own bait again (after relocating all my stuff to the shed after a few years break from stinking out the spare room) I have to get going on a minimum budget, so will be buying the ingredients all from CC Moores in quantities listed with the exception of Selenavite - that will at least get 11kgs of finished bait from the initial outlay, which is £118.24.
Each ingredient for me will then be topped up with 1 scale up of the quantity, i.e 5kgs will be 25kgs, 1kg will be 5kgs etc..
This will bring down the cost massively, for example just on LT94 in a 25kg sack will reduce the cost from 95p per kg to 65p , I have not worked it out yet, but no doubt you can bring it down to under £2.50 per kg of finished bait
Hope that helps people that have not started to make boilies before on how to calculate the costs
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #347
I have used megablend sweet in this mix without flavour but I did use a drop of toasted Sesame oil which worked well
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #348
Thanks very much, and for the tip
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #347
Yeah the megablends work fine. I use the red, one thing i will say is that because its quite course i would advise grinding it and the super gold down in a blender as it can cause the bait to break up to easily.
|
|
|
|
|
Would any of the Meggablends be ok in BM1? CCMoores have the normal, red and sweet. I was thinking of going along the lines of a mild plum & scopex flavour and thought that the sweet Meggablend might compliment it well?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #345
the only downside of the smurf's recipe is that if you don't use any oil, it's very sticky when you roll it, you need to let it dry a little during 15 to 30 min. before rolling it .
You're not wrong
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #344
maize gluten meal is a very dense ingrediant and at 15% it make the bait a good way to sink at the bottom
this recipe won't float and will be eaten by fish
also 17% of soluble ingrediant is not high ! i have also used 20% milk replacer with 10% pre-digested fishmeal and if you balance the recipe, it's not too sticky at the rolling stage and stay on hair for long enough .
the only downside of the smurf's recipe is that if you don't use any oil, it's very sticky when you roll it, you need to let it dry a little during 15 to 30 min. before rolling it .
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #343
The well respected bait maker I'm referring to make some of the best baits available at the moment and always received rave reviews on this very forum for producing quality baits and providing outstanding service.
I was surprised as you at their comments.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #339
spoke to a very well respected custom bait roller recently about BM 1. They seemed to think that the solubles were too high and that the bait would float. I mentioned my dismay at their findings and also that the recipe was a long standing one from another well respected (no names were mentioned) bait maker. They didn't reply to that bit but did suggest something lower in solubles.
Thoughts?
that well respected bait maker aint got a clue then, cos 8.5% milk and 8.5% pre digested wont float anything
ive used 15% milks and 10% pre dig along with shrimp and krill and it sank ok.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #341
Oh yes, don't get me wrong, I have every faith in this recipe and it's designer. But it's just interesting how opinions differ.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #339
Well, I can tell you it definitely doesn't float but it definitely works, top quality bait
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #337
You never give up, do you. Take a rest for a while... 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #338
I spoke to a very well respected custom bait roller recently about BM 1. They seemed to think that the solubles were too high and that the bait would float. I mentioned my dismay at their findings and also that the recipe was a long standing one from another well respected (no names were mentioned) bait maker. They didn't reply to that bit but did suggest something lower in solubles.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #337
Give it a go nick, never used the krill but the other bits have worked well in that mix at similar levels :-)
|
|
| | | bud | | Posts: 1022 |  | |
|
|
Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
I'm looking to kick off my bait making by using the bs1 mix after reading this thread (which has been bloody useful). Just wondering if anyone else has made a batch? If so, what sort of flavours (if any) have you added? Cheers
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #334
Taking out your semolina and replacing it with 20% predigested fm I would not recommend. Your taking out your bulk binder and replacing it with a high level soluble ingredient. Even with the other binders in your mix this wont last long in the water.
If you want to make a good fish meal bait I would completely scrap your mix and start off with smurfs recipe!
If you want a fish meal bait but don't want to scrap your other base mix why not fish with bm1 along side your birdynut mix you have?
P.s. STOP SHOUTING!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
HELLO AL THIS IS A BASE MIX I'M USING MY SELF WHAT CAN I TAKE OUT TO MAKE IT A FISH MEAL I WAS THINKIN OF TAKING AL THE SEMOLINA OUT AND PUTIN IN PRE DIGESTED FISH MEAL INSTEAD
THIS IS A 1KG MIX
150G MEGABLEND
100G PEANUT FLOUR
205 MORES CLO
50G VITAMELO MILK POWDER
200G SELMOLINA
100G WHOLEEGG POWDER
100G VINILLA MEAL
100G SUPER GOLD 60
I LOOK FORWORD TO READING YOUR MESSAGES ND MENY THANKS FOR YOUR FEED BACK
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #332
Absolutely agree, its how it performs that matters, and that's another reason I am not a fan!
My point is that imo it is pointless balancing your amino level with prairie meal as I believe that a lot of those aminos will not be assimilated by the carp. That's just what I think, you obviously think that most of the aminos are usable and that's fine by me.
We will have to agree to disagree! But thanks for the chat
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #330
I am not disputing that, I am just saying it will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or similar!
Unsure why people have such a hard time understanding that
i understand really well what you mean Sam. For you, corn gluten meal will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or milk protein etc... and i agree ! when it's used alone ...
in this thread, we talk about it combined with fishmeal and both together give a good AA profile, and give a cheaper finished bait, so why using more expensive stuff ? because they are better ?
technical values on a paper are great, but i'm more convinced by my result on the bank and my own experience have proved me that it is not always the most expensive bait or ingrediant that work better
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #330
i dont have a hard time-i looked at the bio value of prarie meal against fishmeal years ago-theyres no contest, but as some have mentioned-added with a few other ingredients-amino acid balance up.
then again so does poultry meal-and thats papp imo also .
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #329
I am not disputing that, I am just saying it will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or similar!
Unsure why people have such a hard time understanding that
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #328
There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
yes and thats essentially as a replacement for the ever increasing cost of fishmeal, prarie meal is a damn sight cheaper !
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #327
That is neither here nor there, I am not saying they will not benefit from it, I am saying that in my strong opinion it is not the best product to cover the amino requirements.
The whole point I was trying to make earlier is that I would rather spend extra on the best ingredients. Thats just me, nothing wrong with doing it another way. Smurf put this mix together as a wallet friendly mix I believe, I am sure he will agree that prairie meal is not the best source of protein for carp, having said that maybe he wont agree, Im not sure!
All I know is that it is certainly not for me, not for use of covering aminos anyway. It does have its uses though.
There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #326
Sam, it's not me that i think 90% of it is available, it's a couple of studies i have read that say it is !!!
yes carp don't have stomach, but it as been found that they can digest the same source of protein as pike or salmonids (that have stomach) and benefit from it .
more than one studies have stated that, it's not new ! why soybean meal or corn gluten meal is used in a lot of commercial pellets for Koï ? if they were less digestible, or the koï will not benefit from those protein source like fishmeal, i think most of the producer will let this meal for ruminant or other food sector and will continue with full of fishmeal pellet.
let see this link: corn gluten meal: 96% digeastible nitrogen for salmonids, i think for carp is not far from that !
http://www.feedipedia.org/node/12288
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #325
You think 90% of it is biologically available????
Why do you think that? The stated 90% is based on animals with complex acidic stomachs, not a simple alkaline tract that is found in carp!
Carp are not equipped to deal with such a source of protein with any efficiency.
Just because it is used in aqua culture feeds does not mean it has a high BV
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #315
OK what I meant was I would rather get my protein content from high BV ingredients apposed to things like soya flour and supergold 60.
Supergold 60/ prairie meal is supposed to have a high bv, and maybe it has for cattle etc, but for carp?
Sam, have you ever search after the nutritionnal data of Maize Gluten meal, i don't think ...
it is not a well balanced protein alone, but if you put it with a bit of fishmeal, you will have a very good AA profile.
the fact are that the AA digestibility of maize gluten in fish is high for all AA: from 90 to 94% digestibility ! not a poor biological value ingrediant in my opignion ...
it's used a lot in aquaculture as part of a fishmeal replacer, aquaculture need to grow fish fast and well, so if maize gluten was so poor, it will not be used, result proved that replacing a part of the fishmeal content with maize gluten ended up with the same result on the grow and health of fish.
it's high in methionine, that is often the limiting amino in many mixes.
maize gluten is also really cheap (here in france) compared to fishmeal, so using it can cut the cost down of our bait
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #322
See post #108 onwards, I drove myself (and everyone else) bonkers with the same question 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #322
Why not make that decision yourself and that way you would have had atleast some input into the mix
Best of luck either way
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #320
cheers for that . but would that leave me minus 2'5 per cent so if that's the case what could I up the missing . 25 per cent on
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #320
Would the real Ken Townley please stand up....
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #319
I know I am not Ken but 2.5% selenavite e is ideal
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
afternoon ken
i was just wondering on the bm1 can i change the equivite for selenavite e if i can would it still be at 5%
cheers kevin
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #317
Out of interest what liquids did you add?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
made my first batch of the said recipe today, cost me £2.66 kg including eggs and flavours, bought 100kg of dry ingrediants, cheap as chips bring on the spring
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #315
Thanks Sam......tells me just what I needed to know
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #314
OK what I meant was I would rather get my protein content from high BV ingredients apposed to things like soya flour and supergold 60.
Supergold 60/ prairie meal is supposed to have a high bv, and maybe it has for cattle etc, but for carp? I just don't agree with it.
I would rather balance aa profile with things such as higher levels of cpsp90, krill, wpc80, other refined milks, spirulina, high grade liver powder etc etc. No doubt someone will claim that refined milks are not digestible but it is my opinion that they are.
Just my opinion of coarse
You originally said- .....I'm asking for an example of the type of ingredients
But you then said you weren't asking for the ingredients
You also said- I'm not asking you to post up details of your mixes
I am confused but maybe that's the festive drinks! Hopefully I have told you all you needed to know
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #313
Don't be so defensive Sam - Im sure nobody thinks you are knocking Peter's mix. I understand what biological value is thanks so can give google a miss on that.
I'm not asking what ingredients have a high biological value. You said in your earlier post that you would prefer a bait with lower crude protein levels but a higher biological value..... I'm simply asking you for an example of such a bait, as it's your stated preference.....can you give one?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #312
Should have known I was opening up myself for this!
I certainly did not critisise smurf or his mix, think I made that clear and praised him for posting it up.
Are you asking what ingredients have high biological value? Do a search!
|
|
|
|
|
To be fair on Sam, it is much easier to criticise others efforts than it is to open yourself up for the same criticism
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #310
And if you read my post Sam I'm not asking you to post up details of your mixes.....I'm asking for an example of the type of ingredients/mix you describe.....doesn't have to be one of your secret mixes
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #308
If you re read my post, you will see that I am not willing to post any of my mixes up.
Why should I? I have worked hard to get the mixes how I want them, why shouldn't others?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #307
You are not rubbing me up the wrong way at all Just felt your post deserved a response
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #307
I would favour a lower protein bait that has high BV where non of the protein is wasted and amply meets the carps aa requirement. Such a mix would obviously cost more money
Give us an example Sam
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #306
Hi Smurf
I have a terrible habit of rubbing people up the wrong way, so I shall tread very carefully with this one!
That is what I meant to say, this is a cheapER mix, I should have said (I was basically saying I am sure you can come up with better)
It is high protein and yes not all of it is available- not quite what I would go for in winter.
Imo in winter it is even more important to not drain the carps system and to get it bob on.
I would favour a lower protein bait that has high BV where non of the protein is wasted and amply meets the carps aa requirement. Such a mix would obviously cost more money
It is very good of you to put a mix up, so please don't think I am slating you.
Would I put a lower protein/ high bv mix up? NO! So I guess that is all I have to say!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #305
Not been carping since the summer so I will answer this from my armchair
the protein content as it is very high in this mix, far too high imo especially considering the amino requirements are not quite met.
I don't quite get this statement....are you sure that says what you meant it to say?
As to 50% crude protein being high...If you take into account the limiting amino acids and if we assume that 80% of the crude protein is digestible (a figure I have used as an 'average', not based on hard facts for this mix) then we have a digestible content of circa 30-35% protein Thats a very good basis for an HNV bait to me
The BM1 is a basis for so many other things i.e. add some liver powder, yeast and shell fish extract for a 'natural' flavoured bait or bulk it out with bird food in the late spring for a high energy bait. You can do lots with this as a base....it doesn't cost much to mix up but that makes it good value not budget
sits back in to armchair again
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #297
Another point well worth considering is the protein content as it is very high in this mix, far too high imo especially considering the amino requirements are not quite met.
I prefer lower protein in winter.
Just my opinion and I am not knocking smurf or his mix, he suggested it as a budget mix anyway I think?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #303
My thoughts on it would be, if you are winter fishing with say a hook bait and a two or three bait stringer, i.e. fishing for a bite, and if you are lucky catching A fish, it shouldn't be a problem, but if you are hoofing it in and they are hoovering it up, then I would say lower the oil content.
What are the chances of that though??
reverse psychology on that for me as far as im concerned-i do hoof it in during winter-and ive done pretty well as a result over the last few seasons, i just dont hoof it in whilst fishing-prefer to do it to a regime / frequency if you like around my fishing sessions, but equally you have to respect conditions beeing poorer than better -so you must fish when you feel theyres a chance-milder air temps,periods of lower pressure like the last few days for instance, afternoon sunshine, warmer wind direction-that sorta thing....i hoof it in to keep the fish in certain areas, and to keep them feeding-even if its very limited, those lipids get converted to energy-so i wouldnt take them out of the equation.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #302
My thoughts on it would be, if you are winter fishing with say a hook bait and a two or three bait stringer, i.e. fishing for a bite, and if you are lucky catching A fish, it shouldn't be a problem, but if you are hoofing it in and they are hoovering it up, then I would say lower the oil content.
What are the chances of that though??
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #301
im going by smurfs recepie listed, but tweaks(if any) would be small-im not sure it would need an emulsifier, but i cannot see how it would hurt either sam, if to just keep the lipids from clotting.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #300
So you would tweek it then.
Also depends what ingredient options people are using.
If people have chosen sluis clo equivilant and lamlac the oil content would be much higher than other options
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #299
i think thats an acceptable level-though i,d deffo use a thinner oil and at about 10-12ml per kg, simply as the mix has -heat treated soya within which retains 20% oil in its treatment.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #297
Fairly high oil in that mix, I wouldn't use it but if I had to I would at least tweak it and pop an emulsifier in there.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #297
I asked peter this and he said that hes used it through the winter months an caught more than his fair share of fish so the answerr is yes its ok.
If thats what Peter told you, That'd be good enough for me.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #296
ive been using bm1 with a couple of small tweeks,ive had conflicting advice and im not doubting anyone who has been good enough to help me out with advice,but some are saying bm1 isnt suitable for winter,others are saying its fine...is there a definitive answer???
|
|
|
|
|
Going to make this one a sticky, as post #77 gives probably the best bait advise anyone could wish for, Thanks, Peter
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #293
cheers for that mate yes i think there's so many different factors involved who knows
pm sent
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #292
wont be taking it out guy, just didnt really know what it was
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #292
That will be for half a kg then I am guessing? still an issue, especially as alot of it will be denatured by boiling
Lots of reasons why it could have caught more, and lots of other ingredients that could be the reason for it catching well
But well done all the same
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #280
gentleman please do not drop selenavite for anything else risk at ya peril you can buy it at the following ''vetuk .com £6.42+£1.99 p+p i sent off for mine on the wednesday and got it friday
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #282
gents please please do not take out the selenavite out i made up just a one egg mix and went down the lake for just a 24 hour session i was fishing a bm1 on one rod and a certain coconut bait on the other rod guy's it's bm1 3 coconut bait 0 i couldn't belive it chance or something else i don't know only the future can tell i'd just like to thank overbody who has pointed me in the right way and a certain gentleman called smurf
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #289
Definitely mate, can't wait to give it a try and roll my own baits.
I'll probably have a little play around with attractors etc in small batches.
It looks like a good basemix to get started with there is always scope for the odd tweak with the more I learn I suppose.
Cheers for your help
|
|
|
|
@SamBarley, Yes mate, you are quite right to point that out. I Should have seen that myself. I agree if you take out the Selenavite E, there is not really anything you can replace that whole Vit/Min content with.
@gav1986, I messed around with BM1 and BM2 at the end of last year/beginning of this year, and settled on using the base mix as it is, but with CSL and Molasses as attractor liquids. I did start to add things like Betaine and Robin Red, but in the end i stopped playing around with them, so i could concentrate on the mixes i was putting together for myself.
I'd have to check but i think i settled on BM1 base mix, With CLO instead of Nectarblend, CSL, Molasses MSG and a few drops of Butyric acid. Don't discount BM2 though. I found it to be a cheaper alternative to BM1, and quite liked it once i sorted out a hardness problem.
Both are very good base mixes. Alot of peope owe Smurf a big
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #287
I won't be taking it out now I've realised what it does.
Nellieman - what attractors have you used with the basemix.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #286
Obvious stuff for me and you nellieman but the poor guy might get the wrong end of the stick
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #284
Yes i understand that. But if he is swapping it out, why not use something else that may replace some of the vits and mins hes using.
Yes, to take the Selenavite out leaves a big hole in the vit min content, but he asked what he could swap it for.
I wasn't comparing anything. 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #283
I understand now, to remove it would remove a high amount of vitamin and minerals. So it's probably better to keep in.
What attractor pack have you added to bm1?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #283
All do completely different things.
Selenavite is used solely for vits and mins, the other ingredients can not come close to the vit/min content that selenavite contains
The other ingredients have other reasons for use, pointless comparing them, its like comparing sprouts to beef 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #282
If i was to swap the Selenavite E out, i would probably swap it for another additive that is also high in vitamins and minerals, such as a seaweed product or brewers yeast or something similar. You could also swap it for a spice or herb additive such Fenugreek or Garlic. or even Paprika or Chilli Powder.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #281
Cheers, just weighing up a few options before taking the plunge and rolling my own. The selenavite could be swapped for something like kelp powder or Glm I'm guessing?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #280
Its a vitamin and mineral supplement made for horses. Some would say it makes a difference (me) some would say don't waste your time with it. Either way it is one of the better vit/min supplements to use in base mixes, so either use selenavite, or drop it altogether in favour of another additive/attractor.
|
|
|
|
|
What does the selenavite e do for the base mix? Is there anything similar to swap it with?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #278
Search for Selenavite E instead, but use half as much. A 500g tub is enough to do 20kg of BM1.
|
|
|
|
What is this equivite? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Cheers pikeon
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #275
If I used flavours then yes I would use talin with any flavour
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #275
Give it a try and see what happens
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #274
Thanks, would you also use talin with a savoury flavour such as anchovy?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #273
It depends how dense/heavy the other ingredients are- w germ is buoyant.
I'm gussing start with 3% with this bm1 mix and work from there.
Talin is my sweetener of choice
Yes mix the flavour with the egg before adding the base mix
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #272
Cheers Sam, the flavouring is mixed in with the egg? Should I use something like sweet ade with liquid flavours?
What kind of % would you use wheat germ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #271
First of all, I would certainly get a digestive aid in there, wheat germ is a cheap one with plenty of info available on it.
Even more important at this time of year.
Flavour wise it is worth using a sweetener with one, inclusion rates are on bottles.
Better still forget a flavour and add some garlic or chili instead- cheap and very effective
|
|
|
|
Sorry to bring up an old thread.
I'm looking to roll my own, using smurfs bm1, at this stage I won't tweak it at all.
My question is about flavour/attractor. Do I only need to add my flavour, such as scopex or a fruit like nutrabsits wonderfruit? Or do I need to add anything with it?
Never rolled before so just need pointing in the right direction and ill try and work things out myself.
Can you give inclusion rates in a 1kg base mix?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #269
it was 10 g of betaine an not 25g.......just consulted my receipe and smurf (peter) suggested 10g
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #267
2.5% betaine = 25 grams
That much betaine Chop it down to 0.5% ... 5g is sufficient, MAX 10g.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #267
I divided the mix that smurf posted and divided it by 9 (9eggs) to get the 1 egg mix - i used 1 large egg and it was perfect , not sticky at all . I used nectarblend instead of megablend , that was the only difference to original recipe
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #266
30% LT94 fishmeal = 300 grams
15% (supergold 60) = 150 grams
13% megablend= 130 grams
10% Semolina = 100 grams
10% Soya flour (heat treated) = 100 grams
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal = 85 grams
8.5% lamlac = 85 grams
2.5% Selenavite E = 25 grams
1 % betaine = 10 grams (EDIT...it was 10g,i just checked and smurf said drop it to 10g)
10% rred = 100 grams
3 mil of monster crab liquid
10 mil of hemp oil to help with rolling
this is my mix and something is making the mix really sticky after gunning it out,
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #263
was the base mix sticky at all??
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #264
Haven't got a clue mate ! Can anyone recommend anything?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #263
You will get mixed advice RE betaine levels, my advice is do not go over 50 grams per ten kg of base mix.
What betaine will you be using?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #262
Made my 1st batch of BM1 today . A 1egg mix as I have never made boilies before. They turned out amazing , gunned out and rolled really easily.
So a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this very informative thread
I did not add any other ingredients but will probably add a couple of attractor powders to my next "big" batch, thinking of betaine and L030 powder . Can anyone recommend how much of these would go into the base mix ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #261
I asked peter this and he said that hes used it through the winter months an caught more than his fair share of fish so the answerr is yes its ok.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #260
Quick question , is the BM1 basemix suitable all through the year?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #259
Thanks guys
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #258
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #257
They wil be fine just dnt boil the backend out them.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #255
Will they still be soft enough to get a needle through though, I'm not having to deal with Crays etc?
|
|
|
|
|
Any thoughts on the free amino acids available in the mix?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #254
Whey gel for me everytime where hard hookers needed, drives out moisture and gives a harder finished bait throughout than standard wpc80.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #253
Before i do though, what are the pros and cons of each of Albumin, WPC and Whey Gel?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #252
Ok, thanks guys, back to the rolling board!!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #249
Or blood powder for the cheaper option (just as effective for that purpose)
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #250
Between 5 and 10% egg albumin and/or WPC should be fine. Otherwise as he says....hookbaits only
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #249
You can make hardened hookbaits by adding 10% Egg albumin.
Do this only on the hookbaits.
Soft baits are more attractive in my mind the rock solid ones.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #248
Just done a session with the BM1 that was slower than the previous one shall we say and one thing I have noticed is that they go too soft for my liking as hookbaits and invariably I was winding in an empty rig in the morning. Currently I am boiling for 90 seconds then drying for 24. I now realise the situation may have been made worse because I had then put them in an airdry bag when I got to he lake. From what I have read on here it appears that the drier the bait the quicker it takes on water and goes soft quicker?? Thoughts??
Also from my searching on here it looks like you can add Egg Albumin or Whey Protein Concentrate to toughen them up a bit.
What would you recommend for inclusion rates in the BM1 mix to get the desired effect? Also, would it be best to make up separate batches of hookbaits for the purpose or make the whole mix tougher, if you see what I mean?
|
|
|
|
|
Dose anybody know if there is a difference between vitamealo milk powderand topaz calf milk replacement.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #246
yes and yes
|
|
|
|
I know this is not the best mix ever but as a first mix will this roll and catch fish.
30% Standard Fishmeal
20% C.L.O
33% Semo
10% Soya flour
7% vitamealo milk powder
Cod liver oil 20mm
Molassesa 30mm
Squid & octopus flavour
|
|
|
|
|
Just made up the first batch and I ended up using 13 eggs. Don't know if the eggs were just small but it was a very stiff mix.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #241
2.5 % is not too much on that mix Limey.
But remember you can get usefull vits from products such as brewers yeast and kelp meal/powder
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #241
Im no bait buff mate...i spoke to peter (smurf) and went with his reccomendations tbh...im a rookie learning
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #241
If you want the optimal dosage of MSG for a nutritional bait it would be zero% but in almost every bait I have made I use a heaped teaspoon in 1kg.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #240
Doesn´t 2.5% Selenavite E = 25g/kg(5 teaspoons) sound abit too much, compared to only 10g/kg of Cyprivit What´s the optimal dosage of MSG in a kilo mix ... 10-20g
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #239
almost,i added monster crab liquid,hemp oil and robin red as i wanted them more of a darker red,they wernt perfect but ive spoken to peter and hes give me a couple of pointers,it was more to do with how i rolled it and not the base mix..i really enjoyed doing it and im going to have another go this week
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #232
Nice baits there. My first attempts at bait making (admittedly over 20 years ago) looked nothing like that. Misshapen sticky balls would be more accurate!
Must get round to knocking some of this up. Did you follow Smurf's exact recipe?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #237
Personally I leave them for a good 12 hours if not a little longer. Some do more some do less but 'overnight' would be a good starting point
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #236
how long should i leave these out to dry before freezing them please??
thx
andy
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #232
Thats how it all starts
I just did 1/2K...then i just did a little bit more, then before I knew it I was up to a couple of K's a week and now I can't stop 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #234
What additives did you use in the end?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #233
im so made up,i really enjoyed doing it,i just made a 5 egg mix initially thinking i was going to be in a whole load of mess but everything went so well it was untrue
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #232
hmm, lovely
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #219
my first ever batch of boilies
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #230
The plan was to use that in the 9 egg mix
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #229
I think I"ve read that right . If you want to use minamino at 30mill, red venon at 30mill and hempoil at 20mill thats a hell of a lot liquids if its for a 1kg mix. You will get a very soft bait that wont last very long in the water.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #228
im not a bait buff so whats the difference between the two?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #224
I can't remember if the minamino is multi nutra fosfor syrup, ppc or whatever else it might be
minamino = nutramino
multimino = fosfer syrup ,ppc, mutistim (mainline) ambio ( kryston)
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #224
thanks for the advice. i will definatly grate some belachan in with the eggs and will use the good oil and minamino. i think i will leave out any spice for the moment as with the reviews this bait has had so far i dont think it needs it (sorry to mess you about).
i will order the bits friday and whip up a batch
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #223
Ive always seen bait making as a feel good factor for not being able to get out fishing as much as you'd like to. Put it like this, i never made my own bait before missus's, kids, mortgages, full time working so on and so on. At least your doing something fishing related right......??
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #223
i dont know the right people im afraid and i dont bother buying in bulk as i dont have room in the freezer and to be fair if i go through 10kilo a season then i have used alot
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #220
i might be over complicating things.
If you wanted to grate some Balachan into the eggs when your making your bait, thats fine. I do something similar in some high attract singles i make. Then just use the minamino at the reccomended level, and 20-25ml/kg of Good Oil.
I can't remember if the minamino is multi nutra fosfor syrup, ppc or whatever else it might be So cant really remeber if its the one you can really whack in.
As for the 'kick' as you put it, i don't know. I don't think such things matter underwater and think if carp do like that sort of thing, its for some other reason than taste, maybe vitamins, PH changes?? I'd just use some chilli powder or crushed chilli seeds out the supermarket for that sort of thing if you really needed to.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #222
true, but you can get a good quality freezer baits for around that if you speak to the right people or buy in bulk. depends whether you like rolling your own though i suppose
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #221
still a damn sight cheaper than paying £9 or £10 quid a kilo for readymades
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #218
5 quid a kilo seems pretty expensive for a bait your rolling yourself.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #219
instead of using red venom as the kick could i use a chilli powder or robin red at all and just up the minamino to around 50ml.
i was also considering adding a bit of grated belachan paste although i think i might be over complicating things.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #218
Can't help with the Red Venom, i've never used it.
30ml of Minamino sounds like a good start. Got a feeling you may be able to up that a bit. I dont think i'd go any lower with it TBH.
I like the 'Good Oil' at 20ml per kilo. It is the best hemp oil going IMO.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #217
i worked it out at about 5 quid a kilo if i use 30 ml of both minamino and red venom. the hemp oil is the good oil stuff from tesco.
was just wondering really if 30ml of each would be enough. i have used minamino in baits before and its fantastic stuff. the red venom is down to the fact i prefer having a good kick of chilli in there aswell
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #216
minamino and red venom from cc moores
Not looking for a cheap bait then?
Why not keep the Hemp oil at 20-25ml/kg, and add some CSL again 20-25ml/kg from AA Baits
£10 for liquids that will do 20kg of basemix, and it'll still be as good as it can be.
|
|
|
|
can any one recommend inclusion rates for oil and liquid additives.
im thinking about using hemp oil minamino and red venom from cc moores
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #214
Only the base mix. For now.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #213
Horrible but functional
That's what I use
Your mixing by hand good luck
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #212
Horrible stuff that brown blood powder. I think i may have some of that in the shed. Its all a little irrelevent at the min, as i have lost my base mix mixer. I was mixing base 10 or 20kg a time in a brand new concrete mixer my mate (builder) had in his shed as a spare. But his old one broke, so now hes using the one i was using.
Its gonna be hard mixing base in a big bucket after using that mixer. Nothing mixes base mix ingredients like a concrete mixer.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #211
No I mean the standard blood powder, it will sort out your flaa as well, not sure how much of a problem you are having but looking at your mix you shouldn't be having lots of trouble
Are you using lots of liquids?
Maybe try wpc80 too, bare in mind both of these products are very solubole
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #210
Why, do you think blood powder alone will be enough to bind the mix im already struggling with plus the extra limestone flour? The white plasma powder i assume you mean? Does it bind that well? Ill see if i can get hold of some. Cheers.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #209
Use some blood powder, pop some lime stone flour in to gain distance in a stick
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #206
Am i doing something wrong with BM2? It seems dry and splits easily between light finger pressure when its rolled and boilied. Must admit it rolls like a champ. For the distance im fishing at the moment it needs to be harder and bound tighter. Would either egg albumen, whey gel, blood plasma do the trick without compromising the nutrional value to much? Which one would you use?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #207
yes the mix below is a 2kg mix,i was just thinking on the costs of adding more
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #205
Are you trying to make 2/20kg with them levels your using?
Are you going to be using 25g (2.5%) per kilo? that seems a little low to me for the GLM. The more the better IMHO.
I always found 5%+ to be a good level to start at. I think in this quite strong smelling mix, 5% would be better to get the smell to come through.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #201
Thats how I used to roll it but you would be amazed how different people have slightly different technics that mean some use 9 eggs when others would squeeze in another
As Ken says start with 9 eggs, add any liquids and weigh your base mix before and after to find out how much you actually use....if you like the end baits keep making them the same way
And GLM goes very well with this mix....as do many fruit or sweet (cream, chocolate etc) flavors
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #204
can anyone suggest any flavours that would compliment this bm1,i understand and respect that people who know alot about this subject saying its excellent as it is,however i would like to put my own twist on it,i was thinking of green lipped muscle powder.
BM1 (basic HNV mix)
30% LT94 fishmeal = 600 grams
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60) = 300 grams
13% Egg based bird food like CeDe = 260 grams
10% Semolina = 200 grams
10% Soya flour (heat treated) = 200 grams
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal = 170 grams
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo = 170 grams
2.5% Selenavite E = 50 grams
2.5% green lipped muscle powder = 50 grams
do you people in the know think it will be lost in the flavours thats already in there??i understand its going to up the cost slightly,resulting in the base mix cost and price of the eggs bringing the cost in for 10kg @£4.80 per kg,depending on quantities bought i could get this down slightly.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #203
thank you ken
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #202
Make up the mix as detailed...use nine eggs and add the powders slowly. If you have any left over then it is a 10-egg mix
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #200
can anyone confirm on the quantities of base mix stated by smurf as a 10 eggs required???
looking at knocking this base mix up...give it a go
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #200
can anyone confirm on the quantities of base mix stated by smurf as a 10 eggs required???
looking at knocking this base mix up...give it a go
|
|
|
|
Has anyone tired BM2 yet?
Apart from Smurf obviously
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #197
Any more catch results on these?
|
|
|
|
The the last piece of the mix came today came today, so whipped up my first bath
These are just the standard base mix and no extra liquids. But Im pleased how they turned out and how they smell already!
Here is a picture of them in all their glory
Next batch will add extra additives and flavours
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #194
Your not wrong Smurf.
I just added 15ml each of LO30 and Salmon Oil to 5 eggs.
Worked a treat.
BTW I found that when mixing up the dough it was best to get it so it was still a bit sticky and then leave it in a freezer bag for about 15 mins to settle, it then loses it's stickyness and is just right for the gun.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #193
it's a great feeling when your own hand made baits catch fish
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #193
Was this just the original mix or have you added anything extra too it?
I had all the ingredients come today and was planning on making a mix this week.
Been looking at different Additives and was thinking of getting cc moore's Feedstim xp and marine amino compound to add to the mix. Should these help improve the boilies?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #192
Finally got round to trying the bait out and had one of my best sessions ever, 12 fish, they couldn't get enough of it, cheers for that Smurf.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #189
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #190
20mm it's 2 min.
This is the optimum that i found in order to be boiled all the way.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #189
Boil my 20mm baits for 90 seconds and they seem pritty firm
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #187
I don't have my old records here are work but 75 seconds for 14mm rings a bell so you would probably want to go a little further, say 90 seconds Which is halfway between the 2 times you mentioned
|
|
|
|
This is my first of hopefully many post,
I have always wanted to make my own boilies and this bm1 mix seems nice and easy to start off with.
Is the mix alown good enough, or does it benefit from extra attractors? If so is this where everyone makes their own personal choice to make the boilie their own, or is there a must add attractor that is better than the rest?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #186
Smurf,
What do you recommend boiling times-wise with this mix and 16mm baits, I have now tried between 1min and 2min?
1min giving quite a soft bait and 2mins a much firmer finish that would withstand sticking out better. Just don't want to bludgeon all the goodness in there with over cooking.
The latest batch I made up with just LO30 liquid and Salmon Oil added.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #180
They look just like mine
Comparing now ... your balls are bigger than mine They sure do look Karpi
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #184
I started out with Esterblend 12 (As always ) and Cassia E.O. In the end though i just rolled the mix with MSG and Butyric Acid. Thats what the majority ended up as. Stunk to high heaven.
I only used a little oil (5ml) As i used the CLO. They turned out really well. The last batch i made was a concoction of all the ingredients i had left to use up. They ended up as BM1 but with Caseins instead of Milk powder, CLO instead of Nectarblend, and no crushed hemp. They are still in the freezer (4kg ish). If i get chance later ill photo some later, and post them.
I also made a pop up mix using modified BM1 and glass spheres. It needed a little more work when i finished with it, but if i ever get i right, ill post the recipe. I was struggling to reduce the texture, and up the binders so it rolled and boilied properly. The last batch i made though was nearly there.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #183
Thanks Russel.
Did you use a flavour in yours or just the basemix as it is?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #179
Look good baits those mate.
I rolled about 20kg of BM1 basemix when i got round to it. Mine had a slightly different texture to yours, as i used CLO and crushed hemp instead of Nectarblend. But they are more or less the same colour.
I also caught from the off with the baits i made. Not a particularly difficult water (not a runs water by any means though), but they worked straight away. No pre-baiting what so ever. A good confidence boost and testament to a quailty bait.
Looking forward to playing around with BM2 when i get chance. That one looks like it will stand more tinkering with.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #181
Depending on your others additives then yes I can be helpful to wrap it in cling film and let it stand for half an hour. Still they look good to me...I can almost smell them from here
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #180
Good aren't they and technically, they are yours!
I added some of my usual flavours, but the mix itself is so pungent I can hardly notice them, might just leave the next mix as it is or add something really smelly!
I also think I may have added too much base mix to the 5 eggs as I am used to just adding it till the mix stops being sticky, but I found with this mix it definitely pays to let is stand a bit to see what your dealing with. When I put the whole mix in the gun it couldn't shift it , had to take the end off and blow it all out and start again in two stages with a little veg oil.
We live and learn though eh
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #179
They look just like mine....
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #178
Voila!!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #177
Well I have finally got round to putting the BM1 basemix together, just got to find the time to make up a batch of boilies now.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #163
How much vitamin C would you add per kg?
I've found a powder version from a vet (90%).
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #175
Added shellfish and liver
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #174
Nice one.
Have you been using the recipe as is or with additional flavours etc?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #172
First trip out on the new bait and landed one of my targets the mosaic common happy days bait smell looks and feels great little soft but seems to be spot on
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #172
Thanks for the top tips
I have about 400ml of red karpi left.... enough for a few more years yet
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #171
now I just need to work on my watercraft to give the baits a chance of being in the right place at the right time
Anywhere where there´s water ... in the lake preferably
Smurf ... you´ll get there in the end mate. Top tip ... look for any signs of fish showing Btw ... you got any bottles of Red Karpi hidden away in the back of ya shed ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #170
I'm making my next batch ready for the 5th May to fish a lake I know next to nothing about and have never even seen. I will go 100% confident in my bait though.... now I just need to work on my watercraft to give the baits a chance of being in the right place at the right time
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #169
So what´s the final verdict ... conclusion Everyones had their bit of input ... modified here & there Final recipe + attractor pack
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #168
yep Smurfs mix modified slightly
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #167
Is this smurfs BM1 mix
Any pics?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #164
I made 3kg of them but added brewers yeast and a scopex mixed with a frankfurter flavour not had much chance to use them properly yet but a quick session I did tried the bream loved them but they are attracting fish in my eyes
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #165
Perhaps it would be a good idea to start a new thread on this or do a search
But I would stick with maize if they are virgin carp personally
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #164
I made some and they came out very well in fact dam near perfect , I used this mix because I wanted something that I could use that was proven and relatively easy to source and and was of decent quality .
Although I didnt catch on this mix I did catch in my sessions on Maize. On the reasons for wanting to use boilies is I am thinking it will improve my chances of bigger carp. I fish in the USA and have caught lots of fish up to 40lb the average being a mid 20lb fish, this year has got of to a flyer 3 of the 6 fish I have caught so far have been 30lb+ fish .
All caught on Maize, should I forget trying to reinvent the wheel and stick to maize in the hope a big one will come around, or carry on with a boilie on one rod I know bigger fish fequent the areas I fish.
We are allowed to fish 3 rods here so I have chance to experiment without forsaking the chances of catching too much. The area I live in has some great carp fishing most of it virgin carp fishing, most of the fish I catch look like they have never been caught before. And being wild they fight like stink, I would be interested to hear some views on the boilie question as I have a couple of lakes that are smaller but again the preffered bait is corn. Am I wasting my time trying to introduce boilies into the diet of hopefully bigger fish., or do I need to give it a concerted effort with a lot of bait before the boilie will become accepted as a food source.
Thanks in advance and hope I havnt gone of topic too much
|
|
|
|
|
So the post has been running a while now has any body been busy rolling and caught much gunna get rolling next weekend after I get paid?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #161
wouldnt 30ml of L030 liquid and 30 ml csl be a benifit
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #159
great link, the one i was going to buy tomorrow had £5 postage ontop, cheers mate
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #158
If anyone is having trouble getting Selenavite E I got some from HERE post free
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #157
haha cant take all the credit mate cheers
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #156
Oof ,shouldn't have owned up to that one
Best of luck
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #155
Share a little gain a little haha
Just finished my HNV mix Mr Barley will let you know how i get on, done all the amino calcs etc.
Thanks to your advice i believe it will go well always time for tweaks
Next step balancing and editing ph levels! beginning with a few hook baits ......only when i get this HNV mix to its optimum............. Bring on the warm weather!!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #151
Nice advice Mr Patterson
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #153
Hi thanks for that I can see already I can source Select 2 over here if this will work it could well be the answer .
Thanks for the info
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #150
What you are looking for is a powdered Vitamin supplement not a complete feed (or Range cube as you might call it).
Try Select II a horse supplement or Karl at Scorpion tackle can source CCmoore products in the USA.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #151
Thanks for you reply and info, one of the issues is I live in Michigan USA and not all the products are available to me . Hence me looking for substitiutes , I do have some of the original products available from online retailers. I will check out the selenative E and see if I can find a similar product here, there are a lot of farm stores around that carry all kinds of stuff to check out.
Thanks again for the input appreciate your reply
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #150
You can use CCMoore's Cyprivit which is more expensive inclusion in base mixes at up to 10g/kg. 250g for £10.99 plus postage
or selenavite E which is a cheaper option with an inclusion rate of around Use it between 1.5 and 3 % Takeing into account whats already there from other ingredients additives......1.5kg for £16.24 + Postage
Equivite is similar to selenavite but cheaper. However, it is less suitable for carp than selenavite and you have to use it at twice the quantity (cancelling out any savings by using equivite)
dont realy know on the supplement you have posted but hope this helps as other alternatives
here is the make up for selenavite E if you want to find an alternative
http://www.equineproducts-ukltd.com/products.html
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #149
Hi everyone I hope it is cool to ask a question on my first post . I am an expat living in the USA and would like to use one of these recipes the only issue I have is Equivite is not available over here.
I was looking at replacing it with this product http://www.mannapro.com/products/calf-manna/horses/
As could not find a label of ingredients for equivite,it is difficult to compare products.
I would be grateful of any advice on this or suggestions on an alternative product. Without ruining the mix, and wether or not you think the manna pro would work for me.
Thanks in advance
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #147
A fair point Sure it does as a lot of the proprietory birdfoods are similar in their make up. Egg biscuit coated in honey or oil plus some seed content.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #146
as he said
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #140
Egg based bird food like CeDe
Reason why i asked was cause i was abit doubtful as to whether egg biscuit was included in Meggablend
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #145
Don'tbother. Just add it to the basemix. Why the fascination with the mix adding up to 1kg or 100%? Just add 50g or whatever to the finished mix.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #144
What would be the best thing to take out or cut down on to get some robin red or kelp powder into the bm1 mix ? Cheers
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #142
Thanks for the advice guys. Just had a look and AA do Meggablend.
Right, post #700......... and rest.
|
|
|
|
Egg based bird food like CeDe
The clue is in the title really. Nectarblend (which is presumably CC Moores Meggablend) would equally do the job.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #141
I belive AA Baits can supply megablend (which I assume they buy from CC Moore, just like I used to )
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #140
Thanks Smurf, all starting to make sense now.
Just one more thing and then I'll shut up.
As I was planning on getting all the stuff from AA Baits, do they have an equivalent to megablend?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #139
As he said Meggablend is perfect
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #137
Egg based bird food like CeDe
Which CC Moores ingredient fits the bill perfectly
i would of said the meggablend
or you could use EMP birdfood its available in 1kg,5kg or 25kg bags ive only ever seen CEDE in 1 kg boxes
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #137
I'm gonna just get cede off the net
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #134
Egg based bird food like CeDe
Which CC Moores ingredient fits the bill perfectly ?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #130
I think the blood powder is too soluble to count the aminos anyway (will disipate by the time the carp ingest the bait)
I'm not making the mix smurf, just stating what I would have done
Thanks for your opinion though
I have made your bait before and it caught very well, I'm on my own venture now though!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #133
Fair enough, I see what you are saying. If it was me and hitting 1 kilo mattered I would knock .5% off the cede and add 2.5% Brewers Yeast which I would have thought would further enhance the mix by adding more soluble attraction. Smurf, your views?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #133
Honestly I wouldn't worry about the 'missing' 2.5%.
If it was me, and for the batch size I make these days, I would convert the % to grams by multiplying it by 30 e.g.
BM1 (basic HNV mix)
30% LT94 fishmeal = 600 grams
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60) = 300 grams
13% Egg based bird food like CeDe = 260 grams
10% Semolina = 200 grams
10% Soya flour (heat treated) = 200 grams
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal = 170 grams
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo = 170 grams
2.5% Selenavite E = 50 grams
That could give me enough to make a 10 eggs mix plus a coupe of different hookbaits mixes (cork balls, extra flavour etc) and some paste
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #132
Seeing as Ken says it's already a perfect mix, I don't really want to add anything to it though, just juggle what's already there.
|
|
|
|
As to the missing 2.5%....a good natural additive or two will help give out a little more attraction
@ Chuffy, think he already did!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #130
While your there Smurf, getting back to my original query.....
So, if I use Selenevite at 2.5%, which of the other ingredients would you increase to make up the missing 2.5%?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #125
Some blood powders are not very digestable so don't count on it for any amino acid content, having said that the mix is good enough anyway
Try wheat germ if you want but it can make a soft bait even softer (althoug the blood powder should help with that) so don't buy a sack load without making a test mix
Betaine
Salt fishmeals are already quite salty
Chilli again though try a test mix or two, impossible to recomend levels as different suppliers provide different chilli products.
Salmon oil keep levels sensible 20-30ml per Kg of base mix should be plenty
Amongst its properties salt is a palatant Don't think you will need any more but you could change some of your salt from above for MSG (which is also a salt, just a different type).
Has that helped or just added to the confusion
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #127
Sounds good too, whatever your favourite options are. I like GLM too but it costs more than Belachan
|
|
|
|
that will be the base mix of the coming year, will let you know how i get on!!!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #126
How about 50/50 shellfish Concentrate and mussel extract
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #122
Belachan and/or L030. Go natural, although having said that Monster Crab and Shellfish at low levels takes some beating in a fishmeal. Sorry to contradict myself but those two together have caught me the Lions share of my fish (with a good base mix of course)
|
|
|
|
Not sure if you will agree with this smurf but here is what I would do-
Use selenavite at 2%- this frees up 3% so I would add blood powder at 2% (should sort the flaa profile out a little????)
I would then add 1.5% wheat germ for digestion (ok so it is 0.5% over)
As an attractor pack I would add-
0.5% betaine
1% salt (has a good effect on aminos)
4% chilli powder
As a result I would do away with a flavour and add some salmon oil
Maybe add a palatant in too
I can not see these extras hindering the effectiveness but maybe smurf or ken can put me straight
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #122
Flavours are a personal thing. If it was me then I would look at natural attraction, I am a big fan of L030 in both liquid and powder form
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #122
In that case, do you need a flavour?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #121
What flavours would you use with the bm1 from smurf I'm gonna be using it on a 400 acre pit which get heavily weeded in the summer so would think there is plenty of naturals
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #119
No worries, I was desperately trying to figure out what I had said wrong!
I would up the pre-digested or add 1% salt and somebetaine, maybe some chilli or garlic
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #116
When i mess around with this mix later in the year one thing i want to try, is to use Selenavite E at 2% and use it along side Spray Dried Brewers Yeast or Kelp meal to make up the rest.
Maybe you could try that first.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #118
sorry but post 117 was a mistake on my part there was nothing wrong with it at all
Maybe up the pre-digested, that's what I would do
persaonally i would leave the base mix well alone but if i was wanting to add extras to it i would take a kg of the standard recipe and then add my glm/liver powder/ robin red or what ever to it
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #111
Leave well alone. The BM1 need nothing at all. Tweak at your peril!
That's why I was thinking more along the lines of upping the levels of one or two of the current ingredients instead of adding something new. If so, which ones?
If not, I quite fancy some robin red in there.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #108
BM1 is still the bassis of my current mixes
I still tweak it from time to time but never too far from the original as it has caught so many fix from every possible water you can think of both in the UK and Europe
CLO should be OK, a little more oily so remember that when adding liquids
As to the missing 2.5%....a good natural additive or two will help give out a little more attraction
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #113
Fair play, looks like a great straight forward mix.
Sometimes I think I go way over the top on many different ingredients when perhaps it isn't necessary
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #112
Short answer, not really. The recipe as Smurf tells is it as near perfect as it gets!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #111
Ken, do you not think ingredients such as betaine, chilli or salt might be an advantage?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #108
Leave well alone. The BM1 need nothing at all. Tweak at your peril!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #108
Can't see anything wrong with replacing the cede with clo
As for an extra ingredient...... The choices are endless. Have a play with some things and have fun, taking into account the other ingredients of coarse e.g soluble levels etc
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #108
I'd add an additive, some robin red or GLM or both
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #107
Firstly, apologies for digging up an old thread.
I have been making my own boilies on and off for years but have always used pre-mixed base mixes such as Big Fish Mix, but now I have all the proper gear, air gun, compressor etc I want to have a go at making my own base mix so I can keep the cost down. Found this thread and decided to give this recipe a go:
BM1 (basic HNV mix)
30% LT94 fishmeal
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
13% Egg based bird food like CeDe
10% Semolina
10% Soya flour (heat treated)
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
5% Equivite
After a bit of research it appears you can use Selenavite E at half the inclusion level of the Equivite which isn't a bad thing as it's much cheaper to start with.
So, if the Selenavite is put in at 2.5%, instead of the 5% Equivite, what else in the mix should be increased to make up the 2.5% without ruining it.
Also, can you substitute CLO for the CeDe or are they two completely different things?
May well be daft questions but as I said, never made up a base mix before and don't want to cock it up.
|
|
|
|
Sorted
This was a good helpfull thread for someone new to bait making like myself. I hav gone for the more nutrition based recipes as i want to start as i mean to go on. Everything is ordered and i am fishing the weekend hopefully on my own boilies will let you know how i get on.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #105
Try this Dean, very informative, very simple and an excellent place to start.
http://www.fishforcarp.com/html/make%20boilies.htm
The majority of ingredients are available from the likes of Asda, Tesco, Sainsbury's, Holland and Barrett, asian supermarkets, decent pet stores and health food shops. Decent local tackle shops should be able to supply flavours. Fishmeal maybe a slight problem to locate, but try grinding some trout/salmon pellets to a fine powder as a substitute.
These recipe's will catch but they won't be as nutritious as the ones mentioned, however if you're just starting to dabble with making bait then the above is a good place to start and will teach you the basics of bait making and the properties of various ingredients.
Hope this helps
|
|
|
|
thanks all
really appreciate the advice
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #102
Just go to AA Baits or CC Moore and it is all on there for you. Smurf's BM1 mix can be knocked up for about £3.75 a kilo for the dry mix. You won't get something of the same qaulity for much less than that.
If you want a cheap as chips mix then just add 1/3 fishmeal to 1/3 semo and 1/3 soya. It will catch but is nowhere near as balanced as Smurf's recipe but can probably be made up for about £2.00 a kilo.
You also have to remember that 1 kilo of dry mix equates to about 1.3 kilos of boilies. Once you have factored in additives, eggs, postage etc the finished bait should work out between £5-6 a kilo which is still a damn site cheaper than a bag of shop boughts and a lot more effective in most cases.
Finished baits can be bought for £5-6 a kilo online from reputable sources so you have to weigh up whether it's worth the effort. Personally I think it is and I enjoy making and catching on my own (or Smurf's ) base mix.
|
|
| | | Boo | | Posts: 8800 |  | |
|
In reply to Post #102
CCMoore is a good place to start for ingredients
|
|
|
|
Hi
I have been trying to source some of these ingrediants and even with google and ebay i struggle to find them. Im not sure how if i add all the costs of postage and packaging these recipes would work out cheaper than shop bought boilies.
I understand the point is not to be cheap but good for the carp, but im on a tight budget so am learning how to make my own boilies.
Could someone pm me with a basemix thats not only cheap and easy to source but also good for carp, and maybe some advice on what shops to look into to get these ingrediants as i dont drive so order most food online.
Thanks Deano
|
|
|
|
I'm still here Don't have time to read the forum daily now but pop in once or twice a week for a 5 minute browse.
I still use my 'BM1' mix with a few bits tweaked up and down...I can't ever leave it alone and just use it As Jesse from the fast show would say....'this year I have mostly been messing around with vanilla meal'
Didn't get much time for fishing this summer though so my conclusion was I made no conclusion
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #99
I think everyone will agree that bait is just one part of the puzzle. There are many other things to consider. Rigs, hooks, location, weather....... the list is a big one.
However, i believe a quality bait is as bigger part of the puzzle as the picture on the box. You can manage without it, But its a s**t load easier with it.
So for post 100 the forums recipes seems to stand at these.
BM1 (basic HNV mix)
30% LT94 fishmeal
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
13% Egg based bird food like CeDe
10% Semolina
10% Soya flour (heat treated)
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
5% Equivite
BM2
22% Poultry protein meal
20% LT94
10% Maize Protien Meal 60% (supergold 60)
10% pre-digested fishmeal
10% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
7% Micronized Soya meal
6% Semolina
2.5% Micronised crushed hemp
2.5% Equivite
I think we owe Smurf a big . He could have kept them to himself and probably made money off them, but he chose to share with everyone. And there is also other recipes in the thread for people to work on too. Even if this thread does not get stickied, i think it is big enough for people to find in the future.
|
|
|
|
I also agree that if they are not already, Smurfs recipes should be stickied. For all the baitmakers that use the forum those are the only 2 that I can remember where all is explained fully
Btw I still think that if you throw your gear where the fish are you will catch .... but if you are going to throw crap at them it might as well be good crap
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #96
Bait is such a subjective thing so none of this chat is pointless. We can all take as much or as little as we want from it to improve and develop what we are doing. Or there are people who have been there and done it just trying to share there knowledge wish is also great. A final recipe is pointless though i agree.
My mix has caught me a pb Tench this year, its a start, i'm happy.
The only thing i would say is that i had 3 possible mixes but it got that complicated i cut it down to 2. Glad i did, i am now happy with those 2.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #95
Well thanks Ken for enlightening me as I respect your knowledge on this topic, looks like I will leave thebait theories to those who know what they are talking about
|
|
|
|
Going of thread a bit
But i just made my first batch of my own baits and recipes, ive never followed a trend in my life so ive changed almost everything in the recipes compared to the ones pushed on websites. Feels great to make my own baits for the first time. I have 5 flavours to try out, about 200-400 grams of each flavour.
I think the OP is right in that it would be nice to have a sticky for a VERY simple recipe for the carpforum, but i can see why its pointless as we have seen you will get 100 opinions, than discussions about PH's and chemicals and blah blah blah.
Keep it simple is my moto, as another guy said he caught on milkbottles. All my PB'S are on cheap shelflifes with no spod or boilies chucked out just single baits yet ive used freezer baits from mainline and other companies for years now with no pb.
Hopefully my own will catch as if they do i will be eventually making kilos of it for a small amount of money, very small.
|
|
|
|
Smurf's recipes were put on the forum to help peeps make a top class boiled bait considerably cheaper then the mainstream bait firms. They are the recipes he used when he was selling bait and I for one welcome his openness and candidness.
The bait posted below are nothing to do with mumbo-jumbo or scientific potions. They are top flight no-nonsense nutritional CARP BAITS and they WILL catch you fish without breaking the bank...I suggest therefore that they qualify more than any for the title of Forum Approved Bait Recipe, which is what this thread (originally) is all about.
@ Fred: That old guff about matching bait pH to lake pH was dead in the water before it was even printed. Within a few weeks of it first appearing in print that daft theory was totally dismissed as a) impossible and b) counter-productive.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #93
What i do find interesting is that some of the old writings regarding bait ph and water ph , to try and match the bait to the water .
I,m sure there is more to it , as some baits work well on one water and not on another , as some lakes we have fished blanking at the start a bait change has brought instant results and then we have caned it , like they just could not get enough of the stuff.
Well over my head , but there is a lot more to it , and not all waters are the same
|
|
|
|
I only dabble. I am no bait buff by any means. Reading pieces by Tim Richardson ect just hurt my head. Far toooooo complicated for me.
I have decided to pick 1 lake to try and improve my understanding of it so i can put my hookbait in front of some nice carp.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #91
Nothing wrong in what your doing bud as enjoying it is what it is all about
I fish for cod and trout and coarse fish as well as i like all fishing also ,
i must admit that i used to get huge satisfaction when i caught on the bait i used to make , i went down the bait path many years ago , but not in the same calibre as some of the more informed and enlightened buffs on here.
Not knocking them but when i started to read some of the offerings by the likes of Paisley ect my brain turned to mush where i got overloaded and bogged down with bait syndrome.
My fishing started to suffer , and i was spending more time playing with bait than actually fishing ,i take my hat off to the bait gurus on here , but at the end of the day it is only a small part of what makes you successful at catching.
There is an old saying ,,
You can lead a horse to water but you can,t make it drink.
|
|
|
|
No disrespect was perceived. Was just saying that bait is part of the whole picture. And seeing as i enjoy making my own bait this type of conversation is very helpful. Making my own is part of the fun to me.
I don't love carp fishing. I love all fishing.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #89
No disrespect intended bud its just how i see it as i,m a non conformist a bit of a carp rebel its just me
Needless to say that period of catching at will was soon stopped as i was putting a single milk bottle where the fish were,,,
At a 160 yards , as that is where they were 90% of the time , you see i was taught to locate the fish then put a bait to them , not the other way round put in the bait and wait until they come to you, anybody can do that and play a numbers game , i call that lottery fishing , as sooner or later something will pick it up , that is of course if you are there long enough
Carp fishing ,, don,t you just love it
|
|
|
|
Rigs, bait, location, feeding methods, feature finding all play a factor. The first 2 if like me you have only ever gone fishing on your own you learn about by talking to people, be it in the tackle shop, on the bank or over the internet. The last 3 you learn through practice on the bank.
No, there is no such thing as a wonder bait, however a better understanding can only be a good thing and this type of thread helps me greatly.
|
|
|
|
Sorry to add to this thread ,,,, but ,
I have never bought into all this bait oneupmanship as all carp do is swim , eat and crap period.
If you put a reasonable bait in front of it , 9 times out of 10 it will eat it
All this crap that they put in these days to make money out of gullible anglers is laughable.
If it is hungry it will eat anything period.
Yeh i am probably talking crap but i have never struggled to catch in 30 years of carping ,,
It seems if someone does a or a when talking bait then the on lookers are hooked as they think they have the next wonder bait.
I put the best part of a £ 1000 of so called quality bait in a venue once and caught diddly ,, then i started to use milk bottle sweets on one rod and caught , then i had it on all three rods and was catching while others blanked on there super dooper bait , well i was also till i switched to these little babies .
Had my best ever year on those milk bottles.
All those fish on £ 2.60 of sweets what a waste of a grand
It taught me one thing , i still fish with quality baits but i don,t get blinded by them ,, something attractive put in the right place will out fish any wonder bait that you camp on.
Well tear me off a strip if you want but that is how i see it ,, and i catch , and also enjoy my fishing.
I have always wondered if there was such a creation as a all in wonder bait that you could not blank on that person would become a millionaire over night ,, answer there aint one
Bait is the biggest enigma in the sport and the most profitable , how many company's produce a so called quality bait , its hundreds all bigging it up and sponsored anglers giving it large to raise the profile of the next wonder creation.
Total and utter bull .
Apologies to anyone offended by my post but that is how i see it , i may be totally wrong but until i stop catching i won,t change my opinion
A tried and sensible recipe will always catch , don,t get blinded by bait , life,s too short
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #86
Thats bold .
OK...Let's say, two of the best FULLY DETAILED recipes you will ever encounter. It's all out there...Nothing hidden, no bullsh1t or bluster. Just top class recipes that will catch fish.
No secret this or secret that and loads of silly
Nothing more needs saying
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Two of the best recipes you will ever encounter...Nothing more needs saying
Thats bold .
|
|
|
|
I should make clear that the recipes below are Smurf's, copied from one of his many posts on here when he was making and selling bait. They are not mine, I am sorry to say! 
|
|
|
|
Some decent recipes being posted whilst fishmeals/meat meals/maize proteins look the business on paper you should never overlook the usage of quality milk protein fractions. Without going into too much detail about these ingredients I can whole heartedly say that after making baits without them I wouldnt really do so any time soon. For sure you can make extremely effective baits without using expensive milk fractions but on the whole after careful deliberation I am wholly of the the belief that they must play a part in good food bait.
The main consideration for me is that refined milk proteins do not lie, if it says its 95% protein then it is what it says there is no indigestible or useless nitrogen in them as there is in fishmeals etc. They are certainly not essential to catch fish but the benefits surely outweigh the cost as was intimated to me a few years ago by someone who clearly knew more than me at the time. I have used baits with and without and caught very well on both but without giving the game away too much I would urge people to include at least some whey protein in their formula ideally a combination of milks as it will only benefit your bait overall. Although you can still construct a good food bait without having to pay more than £3 per kilo for any one ingredient.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #81
Cheers Ken thats what we needed
|
|
| | | JK | | Posts: 275 |  | |
|
In reply to Post #79
Micronising is heat treating (cooking to a point) with infa red heat before the hemp/soya is crushed or milled.
Infa red heats from the inside out so youre basically cooking the flesh it in its own juices.
Its something they do to make horse and cattle feed more digestible
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #76
No issue with you at all Nellie. You asked a perfectly reasonable question and now thanks to Ken have your answer. I would go with that recipe as a base and you can always add your own tweaks as Pete recommends. As he used to run a reputable bait firm I would be more than happy to run with that base mix
It was just that I was being pulled up for a post that went off on a tangent (although still relevant to the thread!) as if it was a subject never before discussed!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #78
Micronised crushed hemp
Could you tell me what the micronised part is all about ken?
Does it literally mean ultra fine powder?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
12 minutes and the Harry Potter for find old threads strikes.
EDIT 10 minutes.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #72
This topic has been done to death though. In my opinion the definitive recipe was put up by Smurf ages ago so don't see why we need another one?
Any idea where the recipe is? Its probably lost in the thousands of pages devoted to bait making.
The idea i had for this thread was after finding a recipie from 2008 i think, and thought it should have been put up for others to see, but more importantly, find easily. Thats where the idea for getting a recipe together by the members came from.
If its a bad idea, i appologise, but i have seen some recipes on this forum that in my opinion are as good as any bait going, and just wanted an easy way to find cracking recipe.
I also agree whole heartedly with the people who will say as long as the bait is put in front of a feeding fish, you'll catch it. Yeah fair enough, but lets face it, a good bait can only help out even more.
We have a good cheap bait thread stickied in the bait section. Why not make it easier for those who would like a quality bait recipe thread. IMHO Cheap baits are just that. I have seen the damage a quality bait can do on a water when fished alongside cheaper baits, and still have the bloody nose from the experience. So decided i would do what i could to gain a better knowledge of baits and ingredients that can be used to make that quality bait. This thread is just part of it. 
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #71
Fair enough. I like this sort of conversation. A large degree of what i have learnt about bait making has come from here so i am always intrigued by others thoughts.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #73
Thanks for the considered response
I had not considered the fat content of the baby milk, will have a look tonight.
Mind you I imagine vitamealo is high fat too which most include in a birdy/milk pro bait. I think the fat content (added to baby milk) is vegetable rather than milk fat as skim milk powder is one of the main constituents so it might at least not solidify completely.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #68
So basically you are saying get your protein/nutrition requirements from a quality fishmeal source with a degree of solubility and bulk it out with other functional ingredients to get it to roll?
Yes basically, but also keep an eye on things like hardness of finished baits, fat content, density, attraction and price. For instance, baby powders are very high in fat, which can be both good and bad. For instance, if you rate the attraction powers of fish oils above those of cow fat you should keep baby powders low or out completely. If you plan on using it in winter time, they'll solidify and you should consider skipping them as well.
Btw. it makes little sense comparing blood powder and robin red imo. They are two totally different meals with completely different purposes. Robin red wont harden nor bind a bait, it's main purpose is to attract. Blood powder is usually added to harden a bait, and how attractive it is questionable depending on who you ask. I personally think it's nice in quantities <5%, but don't like it at higher levels.
What's important is that there are many ways to achieve the same things, and one approach can be as good as another. However, the cheaper you can achieve the same quality the more free you are to use the amounts needed at any given time, and that will catch you more fish in the long run.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #69
Sorry Rob, didn't intend to de-rail the thread.
This topic has been done to death though. In my opinion the definitive recipe was put up by Smurf ages ago so don't see why we need another one?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #70
IMO rr is more attractive, but blood is slightly attractive and has other quailties to it
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #61
Garlic hemp almost sounds good enough to eat. Good luck with your trip. Ps don't forget the chilli!!!
The Tesco i work at doesn't sell the Natco garlic powder, i had a look tonight.
I am getting the impression we need a bait buff to help us decide on the binder(s)/hardener(s) to use. Prices from CC Moore for 1kg. Blood plasma £7.99. WPC £12.99. Blood £3.49.
Personally in my bait i want my 'goodies' to make the bait attractive. The pre-dig, Robin Red, garlic etc. So blood plasma is in my mix solely to bind/harden and with a quite low recommended inclusion level i can use less allowing room for more 'goodies.'
Blood powder has better benefits than rr. Do you mean robin red?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #68
Could we get back to the recipe please
I think the blood and WPC should be included, due to both being good ingredients for BOTH different reasons,
The blood imo should be in there just for the fish attractiveness of it and it has better benefits that RR
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #66
So basically you are saying get your protein/nutrition requirements from a quality fishmeal source with a degree of solubility and bulk it out with other functional ingredients to get it to roll?
What is your view on baby milk powders, being both soluble in the extreme and providing good nutrition and a boosted vit/min content? I don't use refined milks in my fishmeal either but have been up to now in my winter bait but am considering using the above instead.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #63
Sure its as much a matter of function, but whats the function?
Semi soluable gelling agent with a nutritional value or a largely soluable attractor that aids in hardening the bait?
I agree with Ulrik If the mix is being pared down on costs, WPC or plasma gel can be substituted with cheaper products that will do the job just as well.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #65
Yeah, I meant that I would totally skip concentrated milk proteins like whey, casein etc. in a bait that already have such a high protein content and also up the predigested and lower the Vitamealo.
All of the functional milk proteins can be easily substituted using much cheaper and equally function ingredients (for the that function). For instance, whey gel binds and hardens, but so does gluten and blood powder together. 30 mesh hardens a bait, but no more than polenta or coarse rice or semo flour, costing a fraction... some people believe that carp love the taste of milk proteins, if you're one of those go for it. I don't put particular high faith in the attraction properties of most milks - maybe with the exception of calcium caseinate, and that's only because Hutchie have praised it no end. Even Rod attributed the effectiveness of CaCas to it being soluble, not necessarily because of it's inherent taste/smell.
Vitamealo is most often used to increase the solubility of a bait, i.e. increasing the leakage of food signals.
I haven't been able to do a fair comparison between milk powders like Vitamealo and predigested fish meal, as the lakes I fish these days are extremely low stocked with few takes per season. But my intuition and general experience with bait making tells me that a soluble predigested would beat Vitamealo easily. I plan to try using 20% predigested. Can't see why it should only be used at such low levels - unless of course you need a hard insoluble (less attractive) bait for some specific purpose.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #64
I think he means
100g Pre digest
75g Vitamealo
rather than the other way round.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #55
Wouldn't bother with low levels of milk proteins with all that fish protein in already and I would up the predigested to at least 10% at the cost of Vitamealo. It's a question of solubility and I'd rather have that from predigested fish meal than from milk powders.
Do you mean you would leave out the vitamealo and up the pre digest, or lower the milk to get the extra fish in?
|
|
|
|
We seem to be having trouble deciding between blood powder, blood plasma, and WPC.
Blood powder is the cheapest. And from reading seems to have a better protein content of the 3. But being a bit of a noddy, the amino acid profiles are double dutch to me.
Plasma powder seem expensive and i dont know much about it, but seems to be only available in a kilo. So is the blood powder, but it is half the price.
WPC seem excellent to, but is the most expensive of the 3. Im wondering if we need 2 or even 3 hardeners in our bait, and could get away with just the one. Or will the bait be a better one using 2 or 3?
My preference would be to use just blood powder, as i feel we are using it as a functional ingredient more than trying to get protein, or amino profiles from it, which i feel are coming from the fishmeals, and other ingredients.
Any thoughts? bearing in mind that with the WPC or blood plasma the cost of the ingredients is about £6-7 more, per 10kg mix, with 650g left over, if you see what i mean.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #55
Interesting thoughts Ulrik
|
|
| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 |  | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #57
@ Frenzy, you mean you haven't worked your way through those bags of chilli and garlic yet??!!
lol..no mate...but i have been trying.
Ive got Mar Peche in a few wks time, so ive been giving the Hemp a bit of Garlic treatment...!!!
|
|
|
|
|
I love the smell of garlic and if i had enough time i would serious consider adding some to a bolie mix. Im currently using the source as i love the meaty, bbq smell and have been really since ive been fishing for 5ish years. Nash amber is a nice strawberry smell and i have heard Jason from A-baits uses some sort of amber strawberry in one of his mixes, i may have to get on A-baits next season.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #49
Of course the garlic will overpower the chocolate cream and tangerine.
I agree mate. Not the best statement to make to try and show the power of the garlic powder i use.
However, my mix (dare i say) is the same level of garlic with
Cajun Crawfish
Butyric Acid
Mexican Onion EO
And it over powers that. Im just glad winters coming now so i can use my seed mix with much nicer flavours and EO'S (Thanks Uncle Ken BTW).
Ive been smelling like a fishy, pickled onion, sweaty sock, Garlic monster for long enough now.
Going to use Strawberry all next year i think.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #57
Garlic Powder
This is similar to the one i use. Its a bit more expensive, but should be about the same quality wise. The one i got was from Coventry Walsgrave Extra. It might have been on offer, i cant remember. I drive a Tesco truck to stores all over the the place, so get to go into a few different stores. You'll be supprised what i find in them. My last find was Semolina, at 89p for 1.5kg bags (on offer). Needless to say i had a few bags.
I am starting to rate Garlic more and more. It was recommended to me by a friend who's made boilies since the start. Shame is, he's got the 'old school secret squirel' sytle about him, and does not let much slip. But he recommended it, and now i like to use it if i can. Im still messing about with Fenugreek to. Mixing it with ratio of Garlic.
You would need to ask someone who knows a bit more about it why the fish seem to like these herbs, and spices. They must get some benefit from them, and as they are quite cheap and seem to make a difference to bait, i am starting to use more of them.
I think your right. It may be best to let the user decide on the liquid side of the bait. There again is so many good options it would be hard to recommend one package. I like lots of different things in my bait and suppose others have their favourites to. I will say this so anyone looking at this thread can see it. I have used a lot of Hemp Oil lately. I think its well worth looking at for part of the liquid side of the bait. It also seems to be a good attractor in its own right. (And put it in the fridge, it does not solidify )
|
|
|
|
@ Frenzy, you mean you haven't worked your way through those bags of chilli and garlic yet??!!
@ Nelliman, i just get my garlic from the spice section, shall have to check out the whole foods because yours sounds cheaper.
I realise price is a consideration but £1.30 for 400g isn't expensive. Although i would save a little by swapping WPC for blood plasma. Very similar properties without adding a colour or flavour (a benefit in my eyes)
|
|
| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #55
do you find any differncies in types of blood?
or do you know where the blood is derived from
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #54
I usually don't use much more than 3% blood powder as it starts dominating the bait, and the powder I use will make the bait extremely dark at higher levels. It stinks horrific but is one of the best and cheapest hardeners around.
Wouldn't bother with low levels of milk proteins with all that fish protein in already and I would up the predigested to at least 10% at the cost of Vitamealo. It's a question of solubility and I'd rather have that from predigested fish meal than from milk powders.
You should also consider trying other fishmeals out. LT94 is a good fishmeal yes, but it's way overhyped with totally ridiculous claims about it being head and shoulders better than others. It seems to be used in 90% of fishmeal based baits, so if you wish to stand out use something else. I have tried many equally good mealsl my favorite being sandeel meal - brilliant!
Don't rate soya flour as it makes the baits go soft imo. Will rather stick 2-3% of gluten in there if it wont roll. 10% of polenta is included in most of my recipes as it aids rolling, hardens the boiled baits and makes baits easier to break down by the carp.
|
|
| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #51
i'll get me coat.....
|
|
|
|
|
the blood would also harden the bait, so I am not sure the WPC would still be needed. maybe replace it with a casien milk protien.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #41
If you look at MM's recepie, if you combine our blood and WPC its nearly the same as he is using for WPC alone. Our 85g to his 75g. Do we really need both or would it be best to find out which is the better for our needs and just use 1? I have not used blood powder before, only read a bit on CC's website. It also sounds as though blood may change the color of our bait, which i never thought of up till now, although i don't know if were using enough blood powder to affect our bait in any real way.
Playing with a similar recipe I found that WPC and powdered blood turned out a fairly hard dry bait that took took on water very quickly.
As far as the colour goes, with the blood powder the bait will be a mid-brown colour but yes once in the water it would end up a light beige with a dark specks from the kelp and CLO .
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #50
Sorry mate i was talking about nellieman
|
|
| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #48
Do you really rate the Garlic powder then russ?
Who's Russ...
yes i do rate it highly mate....and i prefer to mix it with the dry ingredients in the mixer for a good 20mins (depending on batch size) before adding liquids.
|
|
|
|
A recent mix i made for a friend, was a Yellow(ish) seed mix with garlic power, Chocolate Cream EA, and Tangerine EO (his recepie, not mine) And all i could smell was this Garlic powder.
Of course the garlic will overpower the chocolate cream and tangerine.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #47
Do you really rate the Garlic powder then russ?
Liquid side i would leave it down to the makers to chop and change personally Id use aabaits red lighting
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #45
I have been using the Garlic powder out of the world foods sections of Tesco Extras. It is about £1.30 for 400g, and even at 10g per pound it is the prevailing smell of the finished bait. Not sure if its as good nutrition wise, as some of the more expensive versions, but It sure makes a difference.
A recent mix i made for a friend, was a Yellow(ish) seed mix with garlic power, Chocolate Cream EA, and Tangerine EO (his recepie, not mine) And all i could smell was this Garlic powder.
Im not sure we really need it anyway, just an idea.
Think we need an expert to look over our recipe now and make some suggestions?
Do we need to have a think what the liquid side of the recipe should be, or do we leave that for the makers to decide on. Personally, even though its expensive, i would include LO30. I have only just started to use this stuff, but i really think it makes a difference in a fish mix. Any other ideas?
|
|
| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #45
decent Garlic Powder can be expensive.....but i can sort you some out if needed mate
same as Chilli powder
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #44
I also like garlic in my mix so think it should be included
Problem is we are trying to keep the price down
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #43
great idea for a thread guys, would be good to make something as good as the bait companies but half the price. Unfortunatly i have no idea about ingredients.
But i know krill is a winner and mollases sounds good!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #41
I also like garlic in my mix so think it should be included. Gives mine a lovely underlining aroma.
Talking about blood powder and WPC, i shall add blood plasma as an option. Similar properties but doesn't colour a bait like blood powder, has a lower recommended inclusion level than both making room for something else. So, with yeast i add belachan at the same level. Raises the price, but possibility?
I would be more than happy to add in molasses, i like something other than just egg in liquid form and find it a good attractor.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #41
the blood meal will change the baits colour, at that amount im thinking of a red tinge
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #37
255g LT94
75g Pre Digest (dont need 100g to get full benefit per kg)
50g Blood powder
50g Krill meal
150g CLO
100g Vitamealo
100g Soya Flour
100g Semolina
50g Kelp Powder
35g Brewers Yeast
35g Whey Protein.
Thats looking really good IMO. The yeast powder is probably a more cost effective additive than the liver powder.
If you look at MM's recepie, if you combine our blood and WPC its nearly the same as he is using for WPC alone. Our 85g to his 75g. Do we really need both or would it be best to find out which is the better for our needs and just use 1? I have not used blood powder before, only read a bit on CC's website. It also sounds as though blood may change the color of our bait, which i never thought of up till now, although i don't know if were using enough blood powder to affect our bait in any real way.
I don't know if colour in our bait is important or not? I suppose not as long as the baits a cracker. At the min, i can see the finished bait as an off white, light brown colour with some dark specks in from the seed in the CLO. I suppose if Ducks and other such creatures are a problem on the lakes our bait is being used, the user could add dye to the bait to dull it down more. I always like black powder dye.
I use alot of molasses in my fishing. I mix particles in it, add to boilie mixes, put it in pva bags and so on. A lot of people say its a megga bream attractor. However i feel if you hit a shoal of bream when your fishing you'll catch them on anything. Im not sure its the molasses thats attracting them, rather your just being unlucky and fishing in a shoal of them. Thats what is have found over a long period of using molasses. Also when you consider its as cheap as chips, when brought from a horseie shop, its a good item to include into bait. Also you could roll lots and lots of it into your bait come winter time to increase leak off from the bait and make it break down quicker. I really rate molasses, and have found for myself that it does not really matter if you get the really thick stuff from tesco or Moores, or the thinner stuff from seed merchants or horse outlets, it all works the same. (I did consider molasses as a user name when i joined the forum)
Just some food for thought. What does anyone think of garlic and fenugreek powder? Is it worth considering trying to get some in? I have used garlic powder alot in a seed mix of mine, and although i have no clue as to why, i just know my seed mix works better with it, than without.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #39
i dont know if it any better as in other things but i know its lower in oil
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #38
I have no idea if meggablend or CLO is better than the other in the winter mate.
i might have to have a dabble with blood powder at some point
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #37
Cheers mark, i used 10% of blood in my mix that i had few fish on this year, mr saggybelly helped me
im not sure about liquids, the base is up to the job for aminos, so a flavour or essential oil maybe in need
im quite liking the mix atm
edit: CLO could be replaced with meggablend to lower the oil content
edit: the solubles are up at 29.5
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #18
Robbo slight variant of the one you posted a few days ago.
255g LT94
75g Pre Digest (dont need 100g to get full benefit per kg)
50g Blood powder
50g Krill meal
150g CLO
100g Vitamealo
100g Soya Flour
100g Semolina
50g Kelp Powder
35g Brewers Yeast
35g Whey Protein.
1) Increased solubles to 21% including the addtion of brewers yeast, it has lots of things going for it, super soluble, essential vitamins and a great taste enhancer.
2) Doubled the kelp qty, like i said in an earlier post at 25g i'm not sure the fish will even know its there, id advise 5% and upwards.
3) Whey protein added, great binding properties, firms the bait up, plus a bit of milk protien wont do a bait any harm therefore offering a greater range of amino acids rather than just using the fish meal as the main protein source.
4) Imo 10% of the base is wasted with the supergold when you can have other goodies in the like yeast, WPC and increased levels of Kelp.
5) I have sacraficed some of the fish protein for the other ingredients which i dont think is a bad thing if we want a true 4 season bait. We need a wide range of vitamins, solubles and proteins.
6) Got rid of the liver powder, not sure it's worth the extra cost especially at only 1%.
I have never used blood powder so i cant comment. Perhaps the bait might be to hard with the WPC and the blood powder? Someone else would have to advise on the blood powder verses the WPC. I have heard blood powder can be quite an overpowering ingreident, weather this is a bad thing i have no idea.
Liquids- My knowledge of base mix ingredients has improved massively over the last few years but when it comes to liquids i'm not sure myself of whats best. I am starting to wonder if expensive liquids like L030, minamino are worth including especially if the base mix is up to the job.
A sweet liquid like mollases or a more svaoury one like oysetr sauce never did a bait any harm.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #35
Edit: now MM's isnt far off from ours, and he does write somewhere within the series saying that this mix could be used throughout the year
Mark Mckenna's HNV Boilie For Carpworld
Sopropeche CPSP 90 (pre-digested fishmeal) 75g
LT94 300g
Whey Protein Concentrate 75g
Full Fat Soya Flour 100g
CLO 150g
Semo 100g
Maize Flour 100g
Crushed Hemp Powder 50g
Kelp Powder 50g
Powdered additive (Krill Meal) 30g
Spice (Chilli Powder) 5g
Salt 15g
Liquids (per six eggs)
Liquid Attractant (Belachan) 20ml
Flavouring (Compound TF) 3ml
Oil (Smoked Sardine Concentrate) 2m
MM's Article
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #34
I'd be really interested to see a recepie that is top draw, top quality all year round fish mix that is designed by an 'expert' bait maker, and could compete with any sold on the bait market.
Where's saggy when you need him!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #33
I'd be really interested to see a recepie that is top draw, top quality all year round fish mix that is designed by an 'expert' bait maker, and could compete with any sold on the bait market.
But to see it wrote here, on the forum, where anyone who wants to use it can see the recepie, get the stuff and make for themselfs.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #32
Nah, keep it going it makes interesting reading, I'm enjoying it. Unfortunately we don't appear to have the experts logging on so much these days.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #31
Its a Brilliant idea IMO, we just dont have the help!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #30
Never mind. I thought it would be a good idea at the time. Maybe in the winter when the lakes are solid (if we get the winter they say were going to have ) we can try again.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #28
Yeah agreed, i think saggy is busy
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #28
Yeah agreed, i think saggy is busy
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #27
Agreed mate. Think this may not work out without some expert input.
Wheres the Aminos, Saggybellys, baitbuffs, when you need them?
To busy catching on their top quality baits?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #26
It would work but my preference would to do higher in the solubles, we need some more people helping us
|
|
|
|
Thought i would try a 16oz mix, to try to round it off better.
4oz Lt94 (£15)
1oz Predigested fishmeal (£5)
1oz Kelp Powder (£3)
1oz Liver Powder (£18)
4oz CLO (5kg £11 +1kg spare)
2oz Vitamealo ((£6.50)
2oz Blood Powder (£7)
1oz Robin Red (£9)
£74.50 for 16kg basemix. (all prices are approx,and for kilogram amounts to make 16kg of basemix)
20ml LO30 (£10- 500ml)
4ml Banana flavour (£6- 100ml)
3 Drops Cassia EO (£6)
£22 for attractor package. (£96.50 + eggs and gas/electric for 20-22kg of finished bait)
Think this could be a good mix? Its all in whole amounts so it saves trying to find somewhere to sell exacting amounts. I'd personally be happy to make this up in kilos, to make 16kg of mix, Which would give say, 20-22kg of finished bait. The liver powder knocks hell out of the total cost, but seems a reasonable addition to the bait. Anyone making this base could change the liver for, betaine, shrimp powder, CSL powder, brewers yeast or whatever they wish to substitute it for. I would try and roll this as it stands, but if i found it to sticky i would add 1.5oz/kg Soya Flour and 2.5oz/kg of Semolina giving a 20oz/kg mix, and added cost would be very little. Any suggestions?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #24
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #20
lol, i agree thats true with 99.99% of baits! but come on frenzy we all know you can cast the MIGHTY CELL anywhere and the carp will be brawling to get 1st dabs on your cell baited rig!!
|
|
| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #22
oh its very true mate
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #20
Is that true?? i thought it was coconut??
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #20
i would like to make my own boilies but i have no idea about the % you lot spek of haha and it all looks exepnsive outlay, how many kg of boilie would say the first mix make and how much is it likely to cost to make? cheers
I tend to buy around 70 quids worth of ingredients at a time which my mix gets me around 15-20kg depending on additives ect, i layout we use in grams in 1kg of dry mix which will end up with around 1.2-1.5kg depending on ingredients and other factors.
|
|
| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
|
In reply to Post #19
you know what the best ever ingredient in a carp bait is.................................................................
Where you put it...
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #18
i would like to make my own boilies but i have no idea about the % you lot spek of haha and it all looks exepnsive outlay, how many kg of boilie would say the first mix make and how much is it likely to cost to make? cheers
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #17
300g LT94
75g Pre Digest (dont need 100g to get full benefit per kg)
50g Blood powder
40g Krill meal
150g CLO
100g Vitamealo
100g Supergold 60
100g Semolina
50g Full Fat Soya Flour
25g Kelp Powder
10g Enzyme Treated Liver Powder
Anyone think this can be improved?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #8
How do you mean?
|
|
|
|
|
wouldnt think it needs supergold in there-plenty of nutrition and protein from the fish, bang the soya flour up to 150 and get a few % blood meal in there to aid rolling.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #14
Krill, yeast, Liver powder, spices are all worthy inclusions and i'd say the kelp at 2.5% is a token gesture. I would double it at least. A lot of people would say 1.5% betaine is very high, i'm undecided myself i'm not even convinced betaine does a lot.
GLM is also worth considering though i'm still carrying out my own field testing to see if i can work out for myself weather it makes by bait more attractive to fish. The juries still out.
What about taste, i personally think its worth giving it some thought, eg. salty, sweet, savoury etc.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #13
What would you add or take away to make it an outstanding mix then mate? any suggestions?
Change the whole lot if you feel it needs it.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #10
I'd say that bait is a good one and would serve you well but i wouldn't say it's outstanding.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #11
Anyone got a decent yellow seed mix I could try?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #10
Oh dear, i have got Garlic and Fenugreek powder on my mind now too. at 03.28am too
That is the trouble i always had making recipies, there are so many goodies available to us spoiled lot its hard to decide what we really need in a bait to catch carp.
And Paprika!!
This could be hard work.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #9
I forgot about the mighty Robin Red. I think the soya flour, and blood are a good option too. I think this may become a 16oz mix to get all the goodies into it. But for now, what are the thoughts on something like this?
300g LT94
100g Pre Digest
200g CLO
100g Vitamealo
100g Supergold 60
100g Semolina
60g Full Fat Soya Flour
25g Kelp Powder
15g Betaine
I was wondering about the Vitamealo to. Is it very soluble? as we have predigested in there to, just worried the rolled bait would break down to quick? any ideas?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #8
Here's what i have been using without a attractor package, i have had a few good fish the past season on it
Blood 10%
CLO 15%
Soya 10%
Semo 10%
Kelp 5%
Vitamealo 10%
LT-94 30%
Pre-digested fishmeal 5%
Robin Red 5%
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #7
Does that come with a health warning Pete
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
This one I've put together myself and used quite successfully on the river last year. Its cheap as chips and its good for all year round use. Might need a little whole egg powder if the mix is a bit sticky but apart from that its fine.
2oz Sluis CLO
2oz Nectarblend
2oz Vanilla Meal
2oz Vitamealo
3oz Soya Flour
5oz Semolina
The attractor package(s) I used were (per 6 egg mix) -
3ml DT Baits Juicy Peach or Nutrabaits Peach Nutrafruit
4 drops Nutrabaits Cassia Terpenes Essential Oil
15ml Molasses
or
2ml A Baits Ultraspice
1 drop Nutrabaits Tyme Essential Oil
2 drops Nutrabaits Sage Essential Oil
5ml Rod Hutchinson Spice Sense Appeal
1ml DT Baits LMPSE Sweetener
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #4
maybe add 60grams of soya flour to help it roll.
50grams pure blood powder too
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #4
Great idea , sorry though, no good with recipes!
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #3
Agreed mate. The liquids are for a 500g 5/6 egg mix.
A bit silly of me, but easily sorted.
300g LT94
50g Sardine and Anchovy
50g Pre Digested Fishmeal
200g CLO
100g Supergold 60
100g Vitamealo
100g Semolina
100g Kelp Powder
10ml Squid and Octopus
30ml Salmon Oil
Got any suggestions mate?
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #2
thats not a lot of liquid to add to 10kg of dry base mix lol
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
I think Squid and Octopus would make a good flavour for the bait. Most bait companies do a version of Squid and Octopus, so its easy to get hold of for everyone.
Also although it will increase the price of the finished bait, it should contain an amount of Pre Digested fishmeal, may be instead of the Sardine and Anchovy or split 50/50 with it?
3kg LT94
500g Sardine and Anchovy
500g Pre Digested Fishmeal
2kg CLO
1kg Supergold 60
1kg Vitamealo
1kg Semolina
1kg Kelp Powder
5ml Squid and Octopus
15ml Salmon Oil
|
|
|
|
I was just wondering to myself if all the baitmakers on the forum could all pull together to create a CarpForum approved boilie, that has been designed by the members, so that anyone who is unsure about bait, can look at the recipe, and get all the ingredients to make a bait that will catch as well as any on the market. I was thinking that it should be an all year round, reasonable priced bait that will catch pretty much anywhere, and is easy to roll and boil, and use. I thought i would start with a basic fish mix i used to use when i started making bait, and get all the knowledgable members to modify and come up with a final recipe, including an attractor package that any one can get hold of. The final recipe could then be stickied for anyone to see and use if they need to. Here goes-
3kg LT94
1kg Sardine and Anchovy meal
2kg CLO
1kg Supagold 60
1kg Vitamealo
1kg Semolina
1kg kelp Powder
15ml Salmon Oil
5ml Secret Agent
6 drops Clove EO
I caught a few fish on this mix, and thought i could be modified to fit the requirements of The CarpFoum Boilie. Any ideas? What do you think? Fire Away.....
|
|
Bait