I've been using bovine liver powder at 5% inclusion in my base mix since the mid-nineties - I see no reason to change something which seems to work rather well .........
In reply to Post #11
I would hazard a guess that given most people mix combinations of fishmeals to achieve a certain amino profile, would it not and correct me if i am wrong, be prudent or at least a consideration to mix various Liver powders, to achieve the very same?
We do it with milks and fishmeals, so for those looking to create something a bit different and who have deep pockets and are not governed by £££££,s, it just could work in their favour?
As an aside, has anyone looked at Protolised Liver Extract?
I would hazard a guess that given most people mix combinations of fishmeals to achieve a certain amino profile, would it not and correct me if i am wrong, be prudent or at least a consideration to mix various Liver powders, to achieve the very same?
We do it with milks and fishmeals, so for those looking to create something a bit different and who have deep pockets and are not governed by £££££,s, it just could work in their favour?
As an aside, has anyone looked at Protolised Liver Extract?
In reply to Post #17
Depends if its the mix of AA that you are looking for or if other elements of the liver powder are what you want (vits, mins, fats etc). If the later then mixing might just dilute what you want. Personally I have never tried mixing them but then I don't often mix fishmeals either but rather use more of one and make sure its as fresh as possible.
>Protolised Liver Extract
Not me, Quality Baits list it but at £56/kg I am not jumping in to try it when hydrolised is £12/kg. Unless someone can show its worth the money?
Depends if its the mix of AA that you are looking for or if other elements of the liver powder are what you want (vits, mins, fats etc). If the later then mixing might just dilute what you want. Personally I have never tried mixing them but then I don't often mix fishmeals either but rather use more of one and make sure its as fresh as possible.
>Protolised Liver Extract
Not me, Quality Baits list it but at £56/kg I am not jumping in to try it when hydrolised is £12/kg. Unless someone can show its worth the money?
In reply to Post #18
Ok....That's a great point made, one which i had not really thought about. However, Another way of approaching or looking at this would possibly be synergistically, what would be the likely outcome of blending various meat meals, as every organ is potentially that, i would guess .Could it be that the AA profile could be attained from various sources of animal, meat based products derived from , liver, heart, kidney, spleen and flesh? if that's the defining factor? Based on an Amino Acid profile......
Would powdered dehydrated products, be, from an anglers point of view, both cost effective and ultimately be more productive as in fish stimulation and subsequent captures, than raw flesh......ie, liquidised squid etc....Banging additive i might add. But my real question is, considering the basic requirements of carp and also the fact that they really are underwater pigs that will exploit each and every available food source. Why do we feel the need to spend all that money, time and stress , on a fish that will eat with gusto, a grain of hemp, chick peas and a very forgotten bait, broad beans?. Case and point, protolised Liver extract? Is it really that expensive? Are we over complicating things?
I myself love liver, eating it and the taste of it. There must be something very primal and addictive to us and to carps receptors.....If you like liver that is?
Ok....That's a great point made, one which i had not really thought about. However, Another way of approaching or looking at this would possibly be synergistically, what would be the likely outcome of blending various meat meals, as every organ is potentially that, i would guess .Could it be that the AA profile could be attained from various sources of animal, meat based products derived from , liver, heart, kidney, spleen and flesh? if that's the defining factor? Based on an Amino Acid profile......
Would powdered dehydrated products, be, from an anglers point of view, both cost effective and ultimately be more productive as in fish stimulation and subsequent captures, than raw flesh......ie, liquidised squid etc....Banging additive i might add. But my real question is, considering the basic requirements of carp and also the fact that they really are underwater pigs that will exploit each and every available food source. Why do we feel the need to spend all that money, time and stress , on a fish that will eat with gusto, a grain of hemp, chick peas and a very forgotten bait, broad beans?. Case and point, protolised Liver extract? Is it really that expensive? Are we over complicating things?
I myself love liver, eating it and the taste of it. There must be something very primal and addictive to us and to carps receptors.....If you like liver that is?
In reply to Post #18
Just as an aside...where did you think the name of the old bait Protovit liver came from?
Just linking things up like
Just as an aside...where did you think the name of the old bait Protovit liver came from?
Just linking things up like
In reply to Post #18
It's over 10 years ago now but at one time QB used to sell desiccated liver powder and I had ordered a kg along with other ingredients. For whatever reason they sent a kg of protolised liver instead. I had used it before in small quantities so I recognised it immediately.
Long story short I used it in the bait at 5% and that bait was very effective. Couldn't afford to replicate it at the time.
Having since used the "hydrolysed" beef liver I am actually not sure they aren't the same product. Certainly very, very similar.
It's over 10 years ago now but at one time QB used to sell desiccated liver powder and I had ordered a kg along with other ingredients. For whatever reason they sent a kg of protolised liver instead. I had used it before in small quantities so I recognised it immediately.
Long story short I used it in the bait at 5% and that bait was very effective. Couldn't afford to replicate it at the time.
Having since used the "hydrolysed" beef liver I am actually not sure they aren't the same product. Certainly very, very similar.
In reply to Post #21
Hi Christian
Just out of interest, does it look and smell the same? I can't actually find much info on the product other than for pharma uses which could well be the reason it is so costly.
Hi Christian
Just out of interest, does it look and smell the same? I can't actually find much info on the product other than for pharma uses which could well be the reason it is so costly.
In reply to Post #21
If protolised and hydrolised are very similar in what they do then I would expect the products to be equally attractive in a bait. I am no expert in both processes to say and google is not a great deal of help on the subject.
If I had the time I would buy and compare them both but my bait works fine with hydrolised chicken liver so no real need to chop and change it right now.
>Having since used the "hydrolysed" beef liver I am actually not sure they aren't the same >product. Certainly very, very similar.
That is what I suspect is the case. Maybe a slightly different process but the end results are very similar, at least as far as application in baits.
If protolised and hydrolised are very similar in what they do then I would expect the products to be equally attractive in a bait. I am no expert in both processes to say and google is not a great deal of help on the subject.
If I had the time I would buy and compare them both but my bait works fine with hydrolised chicken liver so no real need to chop and change it right now.
>Having since used the "hydrolysed" beef liver I am actually not sure they aren't the same >product. Certainly very, very similar.
That is what I suspect is the case. Maybe a slightly different process but the end results are very similar, at least as far as application in baits.
In reply to Post #22
Not compared them side by side but from memory the only difference was that the protolysed was slightly paler in colour but that might change batch to batch.
Both are very hydroscopic, highly soluble very fine powders
If you look at the beef liver on AA baits web site you will see that they don't actually call it "hydrolysed" so it might be exactly the same product as QBs
Not compared them side by side but from memory the only difference was that the protolysed was slightly paler in colour but that might change batch to batch.
Both are very hydroscopic, highly soluble very fine powders
If you look at the beef liver on AA baits web site you will see that they don't actually call it "hydrolysed" so it might be exactly the same product as QBs
In reply to Post #24
On the datasheet for the AA beef liver it says its spray dried cooked beef liver. Not quite the same as a hydro but probably more soluble that a desiccated liver I guess.
I used to use the BAF hydro liver powder which is from chickens but now they are trade only I get it from AA Baits.
Certainly many options when it comes to just adding 'liver' to a bait
On the datasheet for the AA beef liver it says its spray dried cooked beef liver. Not quite the same as a hydro but probably more soluble that a desiccated liver I guess.
I used to use the BAF hydro liver powder which is from chickens but now they are trade only I get it from AA Baits.
Certainly many options when it comes to just adding 'liver' to a bait
In reply to Post #20
As far as I'm aware Protavit Liver contained liver meal but where you would get that from these days is anyone's guess.
As far as I'm aware Protavit Liver contained liver meal but where you would get that from these days is anyone's guess.
In reply to Post #26
Couldn't you make liver meal yourself, grind up dried, readily avavilable as dog chews, easy enough to make your own if you have a dehydrator
Couldn't you make liver meal yourself, grind up dried, readily avavilable as dog chews, easy enough to make your own if you have a dehydrator
In reply to Post #1
It seems Marcus watts at Mirage baits is going to be selling a rolled bait containing his home made beef liver powder. Thought a few in this thread may be interested.. info below copied from his FB page
I guess the cats out of the bag ! as I let slip on the recent carp chronicles pod cast with Sam that I had been playing with a proper liver bait to do our liver powder and hydro liquid justice. The messages since, asking about will it be released, when, and can't wait ! Have been very encouraging so here's the info
The Liver and onion mix is called ‘The Lion' 😉(see what we've done there lol)
It's freezer only !!!!! A total break from every other bait I provide but I'm so proud of the active properties and bacterial breakdown going on in the liver liquid it would be criminal to stop this by stabilising- and the active compound then starts working on the rest of the bait.
It's got bits of a real old school high protein base but with my twists to make a unique combination - the ingredients are classic, expensive and some are only used these days at the correct levels by a small minority of home rollers.
Does it make a difference? Some will know, some will experiment and some are already catching enough on our other baits so won't need it 😂
In the mix !
Casein - the best I can get from sports nutrition supplier @ 20%
My liver powder @ 5% by weight of basemix
Pre digested CPSP90 fishmeal @ 10%
Whey protein concentrate at 5%
Meat meal (beef origin) 25%
Onion powder, mushroom powder and some other powders 😂
Last parts will be wheat germ, home milled clo, some micronised veg etc to get it to the rollable consistency
Liquids are: lots of my liver hydro, onion oil, another essential oil long forgotten 😂. Liquid Beef extract, csl and that's all I can mention
I'd like it used - the food value and attraction is high so there's no need to throw loads in
Release will be mid to late October and it will be no more expensive than the higher priced but inferior baits out there on shelves. There won't be gimmick products - just what's needed to catch carp
The LI-ON. The king of the carp world is nearly out of the cage
It seems Marcus watts at Mirage baits is going to be selling a rolled bait containing his home made beef liver powder. Thought a few in this thread may be interested.. info below copied from his FB page
I guess the cats out of the bag ! as I let slip on the recent carp chronicles pod cast with Sam that I had been playing with a proper liver bait to do our liver powder and hydro liquid justice. The messages since, asking about will it be released, when, and can't wait ! Have been very encouraging so here's the info
The Liver and onion mix is called ‘The Lion' 😉(see what we've done there lol)
It's freezer only !!!!! A total break from every other bait I provide but I'm so proud of the active properties and bacterial breakdown going on in the liver liquid it would be criminal to stop this by stabilising- and the active compound then starts working on the rest of the bait.
It's got bits of a real old school high protein base but with my twists to make a unique combination - the ingredients are classic, expensive and some are only used these days at the correct levels by a small minority of home rollers.
Does it make a difference? Some will know, some will experiment and some are already catching enough on our other baits so won't need it 😂
In the mix !
Casein - the best I can get from sports nutrition supplier @ 20%
My liver powder @ 5% by weight of basemix
Pre digested CPSP90 fishmeal @ 10%
Whey protein concentrate at 5%
Meat meal (beef origin) 25%
Onion powder, mushroom powder and some other powders 😂
Last parts will be wheat germ, home milled clo, some micronised veg etc to get it to the rollable consistency
Liquids are: lots of my liver hydro, onion oil, another essential oil long forgotten 😂. Liquid Beef extract, csl and that's all I can mention
I'd like it used - the food value and attraction is high so there's no need to throw loads in
Release will be mid to late October and it will be no more expensive than the higher priced but inferior baits out there on shelves. There won't be gimmick products - just what's needed to catch carp
The LI-ON. The king of the carp world is nearly out of the cage
In reply to Post #28
Sounds like a interesting bait
Sounds like a interesting bait
In reply to Post #28
Sounds like a banging bait. Lots going on in there. Loving the savoury with onion route , Liquid beef extract, Liver in both powdered and liquid form.
That will be very interesting to taste. I can imagine it doing very well.Lets see what that retail is. Hopefully not the same price as the Key! lol
Thanks for the information.
Sounds like a banging bait. Lots going on in there. Loving the savoury with onion route , Liquid beef extract, Liver in both powdered and liquid form.
That will be very interesting to taste. I can imagine it doing very well.Lets see what that retail is. Hopefully not the same price as the Key! lol
Thanks for the information.