Eleven years I've been making boilies and it's been many years of trial and error of putting various ingredients and the next best thing together when I came up with an idea. It wasn't all success but with the help of the internet and making calls to ingredient suppliers I got details of all ingredients I used. From there I created a ingredient calculator and along with more research I applied a theory to making bait that should increase catch rates. It didn't go that way straight off but after noticing the mistake and tweaking the bait it caught on the off , no pre baiting needed it just caught fish lots of fish. I applied the theory to other baits and yet again they caught.
Now I'm not saying that my baits are the best out there and I'm not saying I'm the most experienced bait maker, there are many of you on here far more knowlegable than me. I'd just like to share with you all my findings to success in terms of nutrition, palability and attraction (flavours not included) and what I see in a basemix with you all.
So to get started with nutrition here is a random base mix.. Yes I know it not great but I want to get across what I see with discussion. Does it cover a carps nutritional requirement?
Blood powder 50g
Calcium casinate 90g
Kelp 50g
Lt94 220g
Provimi 120g
Clo 150g
Wheat germ 80g
Semo 120g
Maize flour 120g
Now I'm not saying that my baits are the best out there and I'm not saying I'm the most experienced bait maker, there are many of you on here far more knowlegable than me. I'd just like to share with you all my findings to success in terms of nutrition, palability and attraction (flavours not included) and what I see in a basemix with you all.
So to get started with nutrition here is a random base mix.. Yes I know it not great but I want to get across what I see with discussion. Does it cover a carps nutritional requirement?
Blood powder 50g
Calcium casinate 90g
Kelp 50g
Lt94 220g
Provimi 120g
Clo 150g
Wheat germ 80g
Semo 120g
Maize flour 120g
In reply to Post #1
Quite an unusual mix. The things that jump out at me;
Why 2 types of fishmeal and not just use LT94?
Almost no solubles. Will sit on the bottom for a very long time before it starts to break down and release any attraction
Is the Wheat Germ defatted? Standard Wheat germ is high in fat (nearly 1/4 fat) and goes off very quickly.
That's quite a lot of Calcium Caseinate...are you sure they don't float
I would change this for a Cassien mixture if it was my bait.
Personally I don't use CLO but other bird foods from bird food suppliers these days. Every bait ingredient supplier claims there CLO is the exact same as the original and each one is different. Too variable in supply for me to use.
Is it nutritional...yes if they eat it (see above about the attraction). I would describe it as a mid-protein bait, certainly better for the fish than some commercial baits published information. I wouldn't roll it with any extra oil, it doesn't need it.
Quite an unusual mix. The things that jump out at me;
Why 2 types of fishmeal and not just use LT94?
Almost no solubles. Will sit on the bottom for a very long time before it starts to break down and release any attraction
Is the Wheat Germ defatted? Standard Wheat germ is high in fat (nearly 1/4 fat) and goes off very quickly.
That's quite a lot of Calcium Caseinate...are you sure they don't float
I would change this for a Cassien mixture if it was my bait.Personally I don't use CLO but other bird foods from bird food suppliers these days. Every bait ingredient supplier claims there CLO is the exact same as the original and each one is different. Too variable in supply for me to use.
Is it nutritional...yes if they eat it (see above about the attraction). I would describe it as a mid-protein bait, certainly better for the fish than some commercial baits published information. I wouldn't roll it with any extra oil, it doesn't need it.
In reply to Post #2
Just out of interest, what's the other 2 fish meals ?
Just out of interest, what's the other 2 fish meals ?
In reply to Post #3
2 fish meals. Provimi 66 ( white fish meal ) and LT94
2 fish meals. Provimi 66 ( white fish meal ) and LT94
In reply to Post #4
Thanks. I've never actually heard of provimi 😂
Thanks. I've never actually heard of provimi 😂
In reply to Post #5
In reply to Post #2
Isn't calcium caseinate was water soluble? ...and a random percentage of LT94?
...could be up 15%'ish soluble??? Unless cooking gels the caseinate???
Isn't calcium caseinate was water soluble? ...and a random percentage of LT94?
...could be up 15%'ish soluble??? Unless cooking gels the caseinate???
Here's my take on this mix, first remove the calcium caseinate and what do you have?? A bait that doesn't fulfil a carps dietary requirements. Instead to me calcium caseinate is an attractor and being soluble isn't edible.
As for the fish meals if I was to remove the provimi and up the levels of lt94 to 340g it still wouldn't meet requirements of a edible boilie. Nothing works with this mix and it was set out to fail..
Instead I set out by creating a amino driven blend of proteins backed up by additional proteins to complete nutritional requirements of what would be the edible part of the boilie.
Which may look like
Acid casien 100g or 50/50 with Rennet
Hydrolysed poultry feather meal 170g
Krill 100g
Lt94 130g
The amino acid proline is the driven amino here and yes it is effective.. applying that principle in the edible part of the bait is very effective and keeps the carp munching.
As for the fish meals if I was to remove the provimi and up the levels of lt94 to 340g it still wouldn't meet requirements of a edible boilie. Nothing works with this mix and it was set out to fail..
Instead I set out by creating a amino driven blend of proteins backed up by additional proteins to complete nutritional requirements of what would be the edible part of the boilie.
Which may look like
Acid casien 100g or 50/50 with Rennet
Hydrolysed poultry feather meal 170g
Krill 100g
Lt94 130g
The amino acid proline is the driven amino here and yes it is effective.. applying that principle in the edible part of the bait is very effective and keeps the carp munching.
In reply to Post #8
You have lost me. You seem to want to talk in riddles. Can we stick to facts maybe? That way we may all learn something rather than just get confused
You have lost me. You seem to want to talk in riddles. Can we stick to facts maybe? That way we may all learn something rather than just get confused
In reply to Post #9
I apologise if it seems confusing.. the idea of how I create a boilie is amino specific driven with a spike of one which is attractive through the use of a combination of proteins.
I apologise if it seems confusing.. the idea of how I create a boilie is amino specific driven with a spike of one which is attractive through the use of a combination of proteins.
In reply to Post #8
I'm glad I don't make bait anymore, because I've no idea what you just said
I'm glad I don't make bait anymore, because I've no idea what you just said
The original post was based on a base mix which was randomly put together, not a mix Id use. instead highlight what was wrong Which I explained. The other comments explained how I approach a make up of a boilie and it does work.
Ingredients and there makeup of aminos is quite simple really.
Smurf I believe you were involved in the tropamino mix, I was there too. Look at the mix and attractors in detail and see what you find. It follows the same principle to how I formulate a mix years before and what I'm trying to share here. I also shared my calculator with the group.
Ingredients and there makeup of aminos is quite simple really.
Smurf I believe you were involved in the tropamino mix, I was there too. Look at the mix and attractors in detail and see what you find. It follows the same principle to how I formulate a mix years before and what I'm trying to share here. I also shared my calculator with the group.
I've come to the conclusion to fully understand bait making you have to be on the spectrum somewhere.
In reply to Post #13
And nothing will swim past a grain of corn. Keep that in mind...
And nothing will swim past a grain of corn. Keep that in mind...
In reply to Post #12
I had nothing to do with the trop mix but it is very similar to what I have used and still use now...only so many ways to make a bait really. A few 'tweaks' here and there but fundamentally a fishmeal bait with some birdfood, a few milk products and then some fillers (semo etc) which some think sounds better if they say 'binders' or 'roughage' but really they are cheap fillers to support the other ingredients.
So you have a protein/ AA target in your baits, no disrespect but nothing new about that. Maybe you can share your target? I would happily share mine, its a combination of various research papers.
I have a spreadsheet which I started on the late 90's with various ingredient profiles in it. Some are given to me under NDA when I used to sell bait so I cannot ever share the data. It generally takes a few minutes to look at the 'on paper' nutritional profile of most mixes.
You also find that if you make one AA higher than the others, in this case Proline, you find that works better. I suspect you would have similar results if you try and lower the Proline and increase another AA with similar attraction like Alanine, Aspartic, Lysine ect. A lot or more recent research (have you seen Dr Patrick Mills at Biosource biats?) and bait testing supports this theory of one AA much higher than the others works better than a blend of them all.
I had nothing to do with the trop mix but it is very similar to what I have used and still use now...only so many ways to make a bait really. A few 'tweaks' here and there but fundamentally a fishmeal bait with some birdfood, a few milk products and then some fillers (semo etc) which some think sounds better if they say 'binders' or 'roughage' but really they are cheap fillers to support the other ingredients.
So you have a protein/ AA target in your baits, no disrespect but nothing new about that. Maybe you can share your target? I would happily share mine, its a combination of various research papers.
I have a spreadsheet which I started on the late 90's with various ingredient profiles in it. Some are given to me under NDA when I used to sell bait so I cannot ever share the data. It generally takes a few minutes to look at the 'on paper' nutritional profile of most mixes.
You also find that if you make one AA higher than the others, in this case Proline, you find that works better. I suspect you would have similar results if you try and lower the Proline and increase another AA with similar attraction like Alanine, Aspartic, Lysine ect. A lot or more recent research (have you seen Dr Patrick Mills at Biosource biats?) and bait testing supports this theory of one AA much higher than the others works better than a blend of them all.