In reply to Post #34
Jamie my comment isn't hilarious its factual you later question our physics but i don't think you understand the physics and leverages of fishing rods
i would like to know which rod you think would apply more pressure a 3.5tc fast actioned casting rod built with 6 eyes or a through action 3.5tc rod with more and smaller eyes?
something else for you to try get your mate or someone to hold a set of scales at the end of your garden and connect your rod and line to it and pull as hard as you can with the rod bent and let us know what the scales show
Jamie my comment isn't hilarious its factual you later question our physics but i don't think you understand the physics and leverages of fishing rods
i would like to know which rod you think would apply more pressure a 3.5tc fast actioned casting rod built with 6 eyes or a through action 3.5tc rod with more and smaller eyes?
something else for you to try get your mate or someone to hold a set of scales at the end of your garden and connect your rod and line to it and pull as hard as you can with the rod bent and let us know what the scales show
In reply to Post #45
I've never straightened a hook on my stalking kit, which will put more pressure out than what 99.9% of carpers use, yet have straightened a size 6 atomic chod on a floater setup with .30 mono hook length, I don't personally think pressure has a lot to do with it, not in that way anyway. If the force is in the wrong point of the hook it's going to fail.
Didn't the same poster also have a thread recently about straightening drennan super specialists? These aren't a particularly strong hook, neither are the wide gapes but to be bending that many hooks you'd have to be very unlucky or something is wrong with the setup. (edit, that thread is also about korda hooks being weak)
I may hazard a guess, that after having one or two dodgy hooks/hook holds causing bends, the natural reaction would be to go gently after that, if there isn't enough pressure to pull the hook home fully, the pressure is applied in a way the hooks aren't designed to handle.
I've never straightened a hook on my stalking kit, which will put more pressure out than what 99.9% of carpers use, yet have straightened a size 6 atomic chod on a floater setup with .30 mono hook length, I don't personally think pressure has a lot to do with it, not in that way anyway. If the force is in the wrong point of the hook it's going to fail.
Didn't the same poster also have a thread recently about straightening drennan super specialists? These aren't a particularly strong hook, neither are the wide gapes but to be bending that many hooks you'd have to be very unlucky or something is wrong with the setup. (edit, that thread is also about korda hooks being weak)
I may hazard a guess, that after having one or two dodgy hooks/hook holds causing bends, the natural reaction would be to go gently after that, if there isn't enough pressure to pull the hook home fully, the pressure is applied in a way the hooks aren't designed to handle.
In reply to Post #47
I think there's a massive slice of luck in all captures to be honest. I've landed fish that I had no right to after some stupid hit and hold situations on one of my waters that's all snag fishing, and I've had the hook fall out just as I'm about to land them after a very ordinary open water plod.
When I'm zig fishing I never change my rods, reels or mainline. I just use a lighter long hook length and a smaller hook. Going by what's been mentioned earlier then I should be straighten hooks out all over the place, but I never have when fishing like this.
I know I have had standard wide gapes open years ago, I don't recall it ever happening with a long shank though, but I guess they were different rig mechanics.
I think there's a massive slice of luck in all captures to be honest. I've landed fish that I had no right to after some stupid hit and hold situations on one of my waters that's all snag fishing, and I've had the hook fall out just as I'm about to land them after a very ordinary open water plod.
When I'm zig fishing I never change my rods, reels or mainline. I just use a lighter long hook length and a smaller hook. Going by what's been mentioned earlier then I should be straighten hooks out all over the place, but I never have when fishing like this.
I know I have had standard wide gapes open years ago, I don't recall it ever happening with a long shank though, but I guess they were different rig mechanics.
In reply to Post #48
The ironic thing is that most of us are more comfortable scaling down with lighter rods than with casting sticks, yet the lighter rods are much more capable of testing the tackle. I know years ago me and a mate did the scales test like in the video, but I had grabbed the wrong set of reuban flyweights. I pulled my 3,1/4 cerberas harder than I'd ever pull a fish and registered about 4lb, I bottomed out the scales with my stalker setup without pulling as hard and still felt I could take line with the centrepin reel, those scales bottom at around 14lb!
One is bad luck, two from a pack would be extremely bad luck, more than that has got to be a dodgy batch or a problem setting the hook
The ironic thing is that most of us are more comfortable scaling down with lighter rods than with casting sticks, yet the lighter rods are much more capable of testing the tackle. I know years ago me and a mate did the scales test like in the video, but I had grabbed the wrong set of reuban flyweights. I pulled my 3,1/4 cerberas harder than I'd ever pull a fish and registered about 4lb, I bottomed out the scales with my stalker setup without pulling as hard and still felt I could take line with the centrepin reel, those scales bottom at around 14lb!
One is bad luck, two from a pack would be extremely bad luck, more than that has got to be a dodgy batch or a problem setting the hook
In reply to Post #49
I'm sure the old dodgy batch of stuff from all manufacturers slips through every now and again. Maybe a raw material changes in a tiny way. Maybe a new machine operator sets up in a tiny different way etc etc. When companies are turning out tens of thousands of items it's got to happen. Let's face it. It can happen with relatively low volume items like alarms and rods. My mate picked up a set of free spirit rods in a shop once and the rings didn't line up! If that can slip through QC I bet loads of iffy terminal tackle does.
I'm sure the old dodgy batch of stuff from all manufacturers slips through every now and again. Maybe a raw material changes in a tiny way. Maybe a new machine operator sets up in a tiny different way etc etc. When companies are turning out tens of thousands of items it's got to happen. Let's face it. It can happen with relatively low volume items like alarms and rods. My mate picked up a set of free spirit rods in a shop once and the rings didn't line up! If that can slip through QC I bet loads of iffy terminal tackle does.
In reply to Post #49
Although some of the softer rods are capable of applying more pressure they will only do it if the angler applies it , a lot of the time unless we are really trying to stop a fish getting somewhere we don't use the rod to its potential as it sometimes feels like we are putting too much pressure on because there is more feedback from the softer more forgiving rods if that makes sense?
its funny wayne has had wide gapes open and not longshanks yet over the years i have had more trouble with longshanks opening i put this down to a combination of hook hold typically narrower gape and longer lever to the eye.
Also not every packet of hooks will be manufactured to the same standards some of the reported failures may be a combination of hook holds and poor hook which is why some of us never have a problem with a certain type of hook yet others do and when this does happen we naturally lose confidence and dont want to use them again.
Although some of the softer rods are capable of applying more pressure they will only do it if the angler applies it , a lot of the time unless we are really trying to stop a fish getting somewhere we don't use the rod to its potential as it sometimes feels like we are putting too much pressure on because there is more feedback from the softer more forgiving rods if that makes sense?
its funny wayne has had wide gapes open and not longshanks yet over the years i have had more trouble with longshanks opening i put this down to a combination of hook hold typically narrower gape and longer lever to the eye.
Also not every packet of hooks will be manufactured to the same standards some of the reported failures may be a combination of hook holds and poor hook which is why some of us never have a problem with a certain type of hook yet others do and when this does happen we naturally lose confidence and dont want to use them again.
In reply to Post #50
It happens, I was a fan of ultima mainline, used the power carp and xr lines for years and they were great, tried the power carp ultra, supposedly tougher and more abrasion resistant for a snaggy water, and cracked off the first few casts. The tackle box tested it and. 38 mono was breaking at around 6lb
I'd be interested in yonnys verdict on the hooks
I don't remember opening a longshank, but I seem to have more hook pulls when using them, I've actually dropped 3 of my last 8 runs with barbless trig hammers and changed to a different pattern. I had no trouble, and had a lot of confidence in them on a barbed only water though
It happens, I was a fan of ultima mainline, used the power carp and xr lines for years and they were great, tried the power carp ultra, supposedly tougher and more abrasion resistant for a snaggy water, and cracked off the first few casts. The tackle box tested it and. 38 mono was breaking at around 6lb
I'd be interested in yonnys verdict on the hooks
I don't remember opening a longshank, but I seem to have more hook pulls when using them, I've actually dropped 3 of my last 8 runs with barbless trig hammers and changed to a different pattern. I had no trouble, and had a lot of confidence in them on a barbed only water though
In reply to Post #52
I reckon you just needing to scale your rods down
I reckon you just needing to scale your rods down
It really surprises me that so many people seem to be having problems with hooks. I think it's one of the items of tackle that have improved out of sight over the last 30 years. Since the arrival of Drennan,Korda, Kamasan, Nash and others I never worry about my hooks. From 24s for dace in winter to 6/0 for cod they are really reliable. I have landed 20 plus carp on a 22, a big double pike on 18 (both drennans). Use fine wire Aberdeen by Kamasan to land mid double fish in big tides and seas on the beach and I have had some good fish on wide gape 12s. I always fish barbless in freshwater unless rules say different. I just check the knot and point and cast out. I bump, drop and lose an occasional fish like everybody. I don't blame the hooks, I have great faith in them.
In reply to Post #37
No, it's true. There's plenty of info to confirm if you look
No, it's true. There's plenty of info to confirm if you look
In reply to Post #37
Clearly you have no clue what you are talking about...
Look up class 3 levers....that might open your mind a bit...
Simple physics is that shorter levers exert more power..
I won a tug of war quite easily with an AWS 2.25tc rod against a 3.5 H'is.
The problem with big heavy TC rods is that they don't apply enough pressure to pull the hook in past the barb and to the base of the gape that's when they start opening out especially if fishing gravel pits where fish develop hard mouths.
Matchmen with feeder rods don't have this problem because they can apply far more pressure than a carp rod and tend to use finer guage hooks.
Clearly you have no clue what you are talking about...
Look up class 3 levers....that might open your mind a bit...
Simple physics is that shorter levers exert more power..
I won a tug of war quite easily with an AWS 2.25tc rod against a 3.5 H'is.
The problem with big heavy TC rods is that they don't apply enough pressure to pull the hook in past the barb and to the base of the gape that's when they start opening out especially if fishing gravel pits where fish develop hard mouths.
Matchmen with feeder rods don't have this problem because they can apply far more pressure than a carp rod and tend to use finer guage hooks.
In reply to Post #1
In 30 plus years of carping I've never had a hook bend or snap on me, that's fishing for big fish and at times very weedy waters. walk round a day ticket and you'll see loads of anglers that dont know how to play a fish and they'll be angling with un-balanced gear based on what they have seen on a video, its all down to a lack of knowledge, ability and tackle company greed these days.
In 30 plus years of carping I've never had a hook bend or snap on me, that's fishing for big fish and at times very weedy waters. walk round a day ticket and you'll see loads of anglers that dont know how to play a fish and they'll be angling with un-balanced gear based on what they have seen on a video, its all down to a lack of knowledge, ability and tackle company greed these days.
In reply to Post #51
, a lot of the time unless we are really trying to stop a fish getting somewhere we don't use the rod to its potential as it sometimes feels like we are putting too much pressure on because there is more feedback from the softer more forgiving rods if that makes sense? ....
That actually not strictly true as you will be automatically applying more pressure to YOUR 'perceived' same pressure at the handle end.
If a fish pulled to your yield point there would be far more pressure going out onto the fish on your softer TC rods than the stiffer ones albeit it would feel the same to you at your end.
, a lot of the time unless we are really trying to stop a fish getting somewhere we don't use the rod to its potential as it sometimes feels like we are putting too much pressure on because there is more feedback from the softer more forgiving rods if that makes sense? ....
That actually not strictly true as you will be automatically applying more pressure to YOUR 'perceived' same pressure at the handle end.
If a fish pulled to your yield point there would be far more pressure going out onto the fish on your softer TC rods than the stiffer ones albeit it would feel the same to you at your end.
In reply to Post #35
I use my old analogy. You use a longer spanner to undo stubborn nuts and bolts because they give you more leverage.
With a long carp rod the fish is the one using the spanner and you are the nut, therefore the shorter the rod the higher resistance you can put up to what's pulling the other end for less effort applied yourself
Not quite as simple as saying a lower test curve is more powerful either. Something that bends to the handle and is hooped over at 2lb doesn't have anything left in the tank, whereas a fast action rod bent to the spigot at 2lb has more left before it melts or blows up
I use my old analogy. You use a longer spanner to undo stubborn nuts and bolts because they give you more leverage.
With a long carp rod the fish is the one using the spanner and you are the nut, therefore the shorter the rod the higher resistance you can put up to what's pulling the other end for less effort applied yourself
Not quite as simple as saying a lower test curve is more powerful either. Something that bends to the handle and is hooped over at 2lb doesn't have anything left in the tank, whereas a fast action rod bent to the spigot at 2lb has more left before it melts or blows up
In reply to Post #58
It wasn't worded very well or didn't explain it very well i like using softer rods when i can because i can keep a constant pressure on the fish and for me keep in better control however when using the softer more progressive rods i dont apply the full pressure because of the better feed back or feel you get from the rods so unless really trying to stop them getting somewhere i dont use the rods to there full potential can play them better give line when i feel yet still retain control
It wasn't worded very well or didn't explain it very well i like using softer rods when i can because i can keep a constant pressure on the fish and for me keep in better control however when using the softer more progressive rods i dont apply the full pressure because of the better feed back or feel you get from the rods so unless really trying to stop them getting somewhere i dont use the rods to there full potential can play them better give line when i feel yet still retain control