In reply to Post #318
Precisely
The intention of this amber category is political.
It would be unpopular to say you definitely cant go, but...
In the event it all goes pete tong, they (UK Govt) will say we told you shouldn't go.
Thus removing any liability on them.
That's not leadership, that's s not decisive:its a fudge focused on retaining popularity without the risk of future liability.
And people still think Boris is brilliant!
Precisely
The intention of this amber category is political.
It would be unpopular to say you definitely cant go, but...
In the event it all goes pete tong, they (UK Govt) will say we told you shouldn't go.
Thus removing any liability on them.
That's not leadership, that's s not decisive:its a fudge focused on retaining popularity without the risk of future liability.
And people still think Boris is brilliant!
In reply to Post #319
And people still think Boris is brilliant!
Are we getting to the real reason for your enthusiasm on this subject?
The opinion you disagreed with (post 315) is basically right. We live in a democracy where freedom of speech and movement reign supreme i'm afraid only bound by the confines of the law. Unfortunately for your argument, as you've meticulously laid out in your last post, is that it isn't illegal to travel to an amber country as many have done so far without opposition. We then only have your moral compass to deal with which isn't really the place for a fishing forum. If people observe all of the covid protocols and travel to and from a lake without stopping unopposed then there is little risk. Like it or lump it, and you are more than entitled to your opinion, people will travel in numbers and no amount of political satire from your good self is going to stop them i'm afraid.
Floodgates open.........................................
And people still think Boris is brilliant!
Are we getting to the real reason for your enthusiasm on this subject?
The opinion you disagreed with (post 315) is basically right. We live in a democracy where freedom of speech and movement reign supreme i'm afraid only bound by the confines of the law. Unfortunately for your argument, as you've meticulously laid out in your last post, is that it isn't illegal to travel to an amber country as many have done so far without opposition. We then only have your moral compass to deal with which isn't really the place for a fishing forum. If people observe all of the covid protocols and travel to and from a lake without stopping unopposed then there is little risk. Like it or lump it, and you are more than entitled to your opinion, people will travel in numbers and no amount of political satire from your good self is going to stop them i'm afraid.
Floodgates open.........................................
In reply to Post #318
Depends what sort of society you want to live in Jim. I don't want to see the things you refer to legislated, I prefer to manage my own risks.
Depends what sort of society you want to live in Jim. I don't want to see the things you refer to legislated, I prefer to manage my own risks.
In reply to Post #319
Germany have announced brits are banned from entering from tomorrow night... How long before France follows suit!? Hope not as I'm due out on 19th June
Germany have announced brits are banned from entering from tomorrow night... How long before France follows suit!? Hope not as I'm due out on 19th June
In reply to Post #320
My point is simply this.
Upon a proper risk analysis all countries should be either
1. You can travel
2. You cant.
Upon such an analysis France is likely to be green and we could all go. None of this debate would be necessary.
Leaving it to "the individual" is not an option when you are dealing with a contagious disease. Why should an individual get to decide the acceptable risk that may affect society as a whole?
And if you think people are seriously observing the self isolation... How do you think the indian variants got here then?
Actually my argument supports freedom. The last thing i want to see is us all being forced back into lockdown here and our freedoms curtailed because some people considered it was acceptable to take a risk for us all and travel to a place that perhaps they should not have. I am NOT suggesting France is such a Place, but it may be.
They may be right, it may be ok, and i fully support that line of thinking in usual circumstances when they are dealing with their OWN health and safety. But these are not usual circumstances are they?, its not open for an individual to take risks and to decide on matters that affect society as a whole. How do you think Covid got here? Travel, thats how. Only takes 1 person!
Following your argument to its logical conclusion we should be free to travel to ANY country based on individual risk analysis! India, Brazil, south africa, you ok with that?
A good analogy is speed limits on roads. Why do you think they are there? On your argument they should be removed and it left to the individual to make his own choice. So if i hit you or your family doing 120mph, thats my choice? That ok with you?
The record shows that countries that have been the most effective at controlling COVID are those that had clear and strict order policies and were clear and straightforward with their population. Look at Australia by way of example.
Enough said. Not going to argue anymore
I
My point is simply this.
Upon a proper risk analysis all countries should be either
1. You can travel
2. You cant.
Upon such an analysis France is likely to be green and we could all go. None of this debate would be necessary.
Leaving it to "the individual" is not an option when you are dealing with a contagious disease. Why should an individual get to decide the acceptable risk that may affect society as a whole?
And if you think people are seriously observing the self isolation... How do you think the indian variants got here then?
Actually my argument supports freedom. The last thing i want to see is us all being forced back into lockdown here and our freedoms curtailed because some people considered it was acceptable to take a risk for us all and travel to a place that perhaps they should not have. I am NOT suggesting France is such a Place, but it may be.
They may be right, it may be ok, and i fully support that line of thinking in usual circumstances when they are dealing with their OWN health and safety. But these are not usual circumstances are they?, its not open for an individual to take risks and to decide on matters that affect society as a whole. How do you think Covid got here? Travel, thats how. Only takes 1 person!
Following your argument to its logical conclusion we should be free to travel to ANY country based on individual risk analysis! India, Brazil, south africa, you ok with that?
A good analogy is speed limits on roads. Why do you think they are there? On your argument they should be removed and it left to the individual to make his own choice. So if i hit you or your family doing 120mph, thats my choice? That ok with you?
The record shows that countries that have been the most effective at controlling COVID are those that had clear and strict order policies and were clear and straightforward with their population. Look at Australia by way of example.
Enough said. Not going to argue anymore
I
In reply to Post #322
But, but, but
14:58 - France is no longer a risk zone, according to Germany
This news should delight all frontier workers. From Sunday May 23 at midnight, France will no longer be considered by Germany as a coronavirus risk zone. If France will still remain a "high incidence zone", the announcement of the German authorities also leads to the lifting of mandatory PCR tests to cross the border, which had been in effect since March 28, 2021.
But, but, but
14:58 - France is no longer a risk zone, according to Germany
This news should delight all frontier workers. From Sunday May 23 at midnight, France will no longer be considered by Germany as a coronavirus risk zone. If France will still remain a "high incidence zone", the announcement of the German authorities also leads to the lifting of mandatory PCR tests to cross the border, which had been in effect since March 28, 2021.
In reply to Post #324
Which is why it (France) should be Green.
Our chaotic and confused travel policy is why we have the highest incidents of India variant outside of India in the world.
And why Germany have banned us. France may well follow suit.
Which is why it (France) should be Green.
Our chaotic and confused travel policy is why we have the highest incidents of India variant outside of India in the world.
And why Germany have banned us. France may well follow suit.
In reply to Post #323
"Following your argument to its logical conclusion we should be free to travel to ANY country based on individual risk analysis! India, Brazil, south africa, you ok with that?"
Of course not, that's ridiculous. We are discussing trips to France for fishing under current circumstances not world wide free travel. Supply free PCR tests and job done. We can't keep bunkering in forever that's ridiculous and economically unsustainable. We need to move on and going out with a free clear PCR test and coming back with one followed by the minimum isolation time and retest. Safe and sensible whilst supporting essential economies. P.s i have no arguement, it's an opinion
"Following your argument to its logical conclusion we should be free to travel to ANY country based on individual risk analysis! India, Brazil, south africa, you ok with that?"
Of course not, that's ridiculous. We are discussing trips to France for fishing under current circumstances not world wide free travel. Supply free PCR tests and job done. We can't keep bunkering in forever that's ridiculous and economically unsustainable. We need to move on and going out with a free clear PCR test and coming back with one followed by the minimum isolation time and retest. Safe and sensible whilst supporting essential economies. P.s i have no arguement, it's an opinion
In reply to Post #326
Then we agree.
My point us that such an approach should be for all Green countries (which should probably include France-based on the science of course ).
All other countries that dont meet the criteria should be red.
By having an amber category it allows an unclear middle category.
The current travel rules /laws are simply wrong IMO. And they have not been voted upon democratically. They have been conjured up by an inept Government based on a political agenda rather than what should be done.
If a sensible travel approach /policy was adopted and applied we wouldn't have the incidents of indian virus we do have and we could all go fishing in France without restrictions othwr than a bit if testing. If not now, very soon.
If we had endforced a strict travel ban and then gradually opened up to Green countries (based on the science) in the long run the UK would have been better off.
Our vaccination program was world leading its the lack of control at the borders that is awful, combined with a vague and leaky travel policy. We all know not everyone is self isolateting for 10 days! Whatever the rules say.
Then we agree.
My point us that such an approach should be for all Green countries (which should probably include France-based on the science of course ).
All other countries that dont meet the criteria should be red.
By having an amber category it allows an unclear middle category.
The current travel rules /laws are simply wrong IMO. And they have not been voted upon democratically. They have been conjured up by an inept Government based on a political agenda rather than what should be done.
If a sensible travel approach /policy was adopted and applied we wouldn't have the incidents of indian virus we do have and we could all go fishing in France without restrictions othwr than a bit if testing. If not now, very soon.
If we had endforced a strict travel ban and then gradually opened up to Green countries (based on the science) in the long run the UK would have been better off.
Our vaccination program was world leading its the lack of control at the borders that is awful, combined with a vague and leaky travel policy. We all know not everyone is self isolateting for 10 days! Whatever the rules say.
In reply to Post #299
no it doesnt rule out night fishing , it just means if you are there after 9pm you cnnot travel before 6am the next day, so night fishing is ok
no it doesnt rule out night fishing , it just means if you are there after 9pm you cnnot travel before 6am the next day, so night fishing is ok
In reply to Post #328
The reality here is you can't trust the British public to do the right thing, poor leadership by Boris in this instance, as far as I am concerned foreign travel should be a no this year. Most people won't isolate on there return and put others at risk, for what some fish or a tan.
The reality here is you can't trust the British public to do the right thing, poor leadership by Boris in this instance, as far as I am concerned foreign travel should be a no this year. Most people won't isolate on there return and put others at risk, for what some fish or a tan.
In reply to Post #329
So you're saying the vaccines don't work at protecting the vulnerable then?
So you're saying the vaccines don't work at protecting the vulnerable then?
In reply to Post #329
you cant trust public. period
you cant trust public. period
In reply to Post #331
So lock everyone up indefinitely then??? You can't trust the public not to steal your car or break into your house but you don't place everyone on lockdown when that happens!! Of course there are a percentage of selfless individuals in this world but it's not about a tan or fish, it's about getting on with our lives and making the best of the situation. Do you honestly think this is going away and hiding for the rest of the year will improve matters or change the actions of those people you speak about?? Vaccinations and proper structures in place is about all we can do, not sitting in doors for the rest of our lives peering around the curtains!!!!
So lock everyone up indefinitely then??? You can't trust the public not to steal your car or break into your house but you don't place everyone on lockdown when that happens!! Of course there are a percentage of selfless individuals in this world but it's not about a tan or fish, it's about getting on with our lives and making the best of the situation. Do you honestly think this is going away and hiding for the rest of the year will improve matters or change the actions of those people you speak about?? Vaccinations and proper structures in place is about all we can do, not sitting in doors for the rest of our lives peering around the curtains!!!!
In reply to Post #332
My point was that it is the same everywhere it is not just british public that is like that...
My point was that it is the same everywhere it is not just british public that is like that...