In reply to Post #14
oldfellah i can see your point it isnt really anybodys fault but a lot of anglers maybe be putting there jobs in jepordy by choosing to come to france and then having to isolalate as were just entering what could be the biggest recession in most of our lives so with the bait i have ordered and the cost of the trip ill be almost £1000 out of pocket or risk losing my job
oldfellah i can see your point it isnt really anybodys fault but a lot of anglers maybe be putting there jobs in jepordy by choosing to come to france and then having to isolalate as were just entering what could be the biggest recession in most of our lives so with the bait i have ordered and the cost of the trip ill be almost £1000 out of pocket or risk losing my job
In reply to Post #16
I fully understand and sympathise with anyone suffering from this situatuion however as you lads cannot afford to lose income the same applies to the lake owner who will lose his if you cancel. It really is a no win situation with someone going to be a loser whatever happens.
I fully understand and sympathise with anyone suffering from this situatuion however as you lads cannot afford to lose income the same applies to the lake owner who will lose his if you cancel. It really is a no win situation with someone going to be a loser whatever happens.
In reply to Post #1
How can anglers think owners can go without income for so many months? I completelly understand what they are doing now... In first wave majority of them decided to take the loss surelly people dont think they can do that once more?
How can anglers think owners can go without income for so many months? I completelly understand what they are doing now... In first wave majority of them decided to take the loss surelly people dont think they can do that once more?
In reply to Post #6
Were`nt the French government were giving financial assistance during the lockdown.
Were`nt the French government were giving financial assistance during the lockdown.
In reply to Post #19
Maximum of 1500 euros per month
Maximum of 1500 euros per month
In reply to Post #12
Fortunately for me John I always have an annual policy on the go, and as I renewed with the booking in place I am covered for about half the cost of the booking.
The others on my booking don't have cover and also not sure if they'd be covered as I am the lead and paid all our money in one go from my account.
Maybe lesson learned for the others re the insurance and maybe one to consider us all making separate payments. But hindsight is a great thing and not sure on an exclusive booking people paying separate and maybe getting their own payments covered if they were insured.
Fortunately for me John I always have an annual policy on the go, and as I renewed with the booking in place I am covered for about half the cost of the booking.
The others on my booking don't have cover and also not sure if they'd be covered as I am the lead and paid all our money in one go from my account.
Maybe lesson learned for the others re the insurance and maybe one to consider us all making separate payments. But hindsight is a great thing and not sure on an exclusive booking people paying separate and maybe getting their own payments covered if they were insured.
In reply to Post #6
Well said Jim, couldn´t have put it better myself!! In some ways it is the most successful venues that will suffer most not having availability to offer customers to reschedule their holiday, really glad I am not still over there while all this is going on, not sure how I would have dealt with it or been able to afford to deal with it. All the best for the remainder of the season.
Well said Jim, couldn´t have put it better myself!! In some ways it is the most successful venues that will suffer most not having availability to offer customers to reschedule their holiday, really glad I am not still over there while all this is going on, not sure how I would have dealt with it or been able to afford to deal with it. All the best for the remainder of the season.
In reply to Post #17
I don't usually post on here, usually just read, I also do not own a lake, but I agree with oldfella.
He runs an excellent operation, I have been a few times
He has invested significantly in the fishery and its a family operatatiom. His fishery, like many (most) are not "raking it in" as anglers seem to think.
What this is really about is the allocation of risk. Lockdown prevented fishery owners providing the service. It wasn't their fault, nor the anglers, but on balance the fishery owner probably held that risk, for non delivery, of the service paid for, even if it wasn't their fault. Most have acted reasonably and rolled bookings forward. I've rolled one forward (not at oldfellas lake BTW) to next season.
However to think that a lake, which after all is a commercial enterprise, can continue to simply roll bookings forward or too provide refunds shows a complete lack of understanding of commercial reality. To openly complain about it on here beggars belief in my view!
Also the current situation is not the same as the previous. The lake CAN legally now provide the service you paid for. It just means that if you decide to enjoy that service, there are restrictions upon you that may or may not be acceptable (quarantine). That's your choice (or circumstances) if you wish not to or can not accept those restrictions.
We are back to the allocation of risk. That risk is on you the angler. Its your choice to go or not to go. The lake is open and in a position provide the service you booked and paid for. The risk or acceptance of the restrictions is on you, the angler. It's your choice to go or not to. The fact your individual circumstances prevent you so doing is not the fishery's risk.
Everybody looks at "fault" in these circumstances and immediately assumes that if they are not at fault the other party must refund. That's not the case. It is the allocation of risk, not fault that matters.
Put it this way. If you broke your leg on the Thursday before your were due to leave in an accident, and could not travel, do you seriously expect a refund or a rollover from the Fishery owner? No! That's your risk. You can choose to insure against it, or not, again your choice. If you can not "afford" to lose that money then you should have insured against such circumstances.
Moaning about French fishery owners on here in these current circumstances demonstrates a complete lack of appreciation and understanding of the facts and circumstances. French Fishery owners are not bottomless pits of money most anglers think that are. I know this because I have looked into entering in the bussiness. Indeed as a purely commercial analysis your money would be better invested elsewhere! Trust me! It's a lifestyle choice by most. As it will be (hopefully) to me some day!
On the subject of insurance, anglers who do decide to travel need to check with their vehicle insurers as well. Given the advice of the Govt to avoid non essential travel, I suspect that fully comprehensive cover on the vehicle in France will not be provided. Third party probably is. So if you have an accident your losses to your vehicle is probably not insured. Again allocation of risk. You took the decision to travel!
Just my two cents worth. No doubt most will disagree with me.
I don't usually post on here, usually just read, I also do not own a lake, but I agree with oldfella.
He runs an excellent operation, I have been a few times
He has invested significantly in the fishery and its a family operatatiom. His fishery, like many (most) are not "raking it in" as anglers seem to think.
What this is really about is the allocation of risk. Lockdown prevented fishery owners providing the service. It wasn't their fault, nor the anglers, but on balance the fishery owner probably held that risk, for non delivery, of the service paid for, even if it wasn't their fault. Most have acted reasonably and rolled bookings forward. I've rolled one forward (not at oldfellas lake BTW) to next season.
However to think that a lake, which after all is a commercial enterprise, can continue to simply roll bookings forward or too provide refunds shows a complete lack of understanding of commercial reality. To openly complain about it on here beggars belief in my view!
Also the current situation is not the same as the previous. The lake CAN legally now provide the service you paid for. It just means that if you decide to enjoy that service, there are restrictions upon you that may or may not be acceptable (quarantine). That's your choice (or circumstances) if you wish not to or can not accept those restrictions.
We are back to the allocation of risk. That risk is on you the angler. Its your choice to go or not to go. The lake is open and in a position provide the service you booked and paid for. The risk or acceptance of the restrictions is on you, the angler. It's your choice to go or not to. The fact your individual circumstances prevent you so doing is not the fishery's risk.
Everybody looks at "fault" in these circumstances and immediately assumes that if they are not at fault the other party must refund. That's not the case. It is the allocation of risk, not fault that matters.
Put it this way. If you broke your leg on the Thursday before your were due to leave in an accident, and could not travel, do you seriously expect a refund or a rollover from the Fishery owner? No! That's your risk. You can choose to insure against it, or not, again your choice. If you can not "afford" to lose that money then you should have insured against such circumstances.
Moaning about French fishery owners on here in these current circumstances demonstrates a complete lack of appreciation and understanding of the facts and circumstances. French Fishery owners are not bottomless pits of money most anglers think that are. I know this because I have looked into entering in the bussiness. Indeed as a purely commercial analysis your money would be better invested elsewhere! Trust me! It's a lifestyle choice by most. As it will be (hopefully) to me some day!
On the subject of insurance, anglers who do decide to travel need to check with their vehicle insurers as well. Given the advice of the Govt to avoid non essential travel, I suspect that fully comprehensive cover on the vehicle in France will not be provided. Third party probably is. So if you have an accident your losses to your vehicle is probably not insured. Again allocation of risk. You took the decision to travel!
Just my two cents worth. No doubt most will disagree with me.
In reply to Post #23
Very eloquently put 👍👍
Very eloquently put 👍👍
In reply to Post #23
Well said fellah,and thank you.
Well said fellah,and thank you.
In reply to Post #25
Our trip was cancelled in early June. Lost £300 deposit. But it didn't worry me .the owners have bills to pay and need food on table
Our trip was cancelled in early June. Lost £300 deposit. But it didn't worry me .the owners have bills to pay and need food on table
In reply to Post #26
silver slayer i didnt moan or call or even name the fishery in question i merely asked a question
I intend to still go to france ive used my remaining hols and taking 2 shifts unpaid so I can isololate for 2 weeks
luckily myself and my mate dont need to drive to or in france so car insurance isnt a problem
i fully sympathise with the lake owners and hope none of them do lose there businesses
silver slayer i didnt moan or call or even name the fishery in question i merely asked a question
I intend to still go to france ive used my remaining hols and taking 2 shifts unpaid so I can isololate for 2 weeks
luckily myself and my mate dont need to drive to or in france so car insurance isnt a problem
i fully sympathise with the lake owners and hope none of them do lose there businesses
In reply to Post #23
Good post. However, l would suggest it's not fair or equitable the angler has to take all the risk and maybe lake owners need to consider insurance for such extreme circumstances? I may be wrong but wouldn't they have insurance for a fish kill, which would also wipe out the business?
Good post. However, l would suggest it's not fair or equitable the angler has to take all the risk and maybe lake owners need to consider insurance for such extreme circumstances? I may be wrong but wouldn't they have insurance for a fish kill, which would also wipe out the business?
In reply to Post #28
You can't insure against a fish kill. I've looked into it.
You can't insure against a fish kill. I've looked into it.
In reply to Post #23
Well said Paul, totally agree with you.
Well said Paul, totally agree with you.