In reply to Post #234
Loads of question the BS haven't got a clue how to respond to
Loads of question the BS haven't got a clue how to respond to
In reply to Post #234
Hi and welcome.
Well obviously the areas that have been ravaged the hardest would be the first port of call?
Male or female, doesn't matter, either way, it cuts down on reproduction.
Females, lactating? So if we're getting sentimental at this stage, what's the point?
When other pest, are culled or controlled apart from deer etc nobody worries if an animal is carrying, or feeding young?
Rabbits, rats, carion birds, fox, badger, grey squirrel and a good few others are culled on a regular basis, because of the issues they cause.
So, if enough evidence is presented that these animals are a pest, which they clearly are, why shouldn't a cull be allowed?
The ultimate would be, if they were added to the general licence, then would be dealt with as and when they they present themselves as a pest.
I.e. wiping out a fishery, devestating the stocks of fish, birds and small mamals, on a stretch of river or canal.
Taking away the livelihood of a fish farm, wiping out a pond, basically presenting themselves as pests?
Eventually some will take the law into their own hands, i would take a guess and say, that some of the best salmon beats, have had otter come calling. I wonder, what the ghillie would make of that, grin and bear it? I have my own ideas.
Surely a legal cull is best for everybody, and in the long term, even the otter.
What do i know anyway, i'm just another angry and frustrated angler?
Hi and welcome.
Well obviously the areas that have been ravaged the hardest would be the first port of call?
Male or female, doesn't matter, either way, it cuts down on reproduction.
Females, lactating? So if we're getting sentimental at this stage, what's the point?
When other pest, are culled or controlled apart from deer etc nobody worries if an animal is carrying, or feeding young?
Rabbits, rats, carion birds, fox, badger, grey squirrel and a good few others are culled on a regular basis, because of the issues they cause.
So, if enough evidence is presented that these animals are a pest, which they clearly are, why shouldn't a cull be allowed?
The ultimate would be, if they were added to the general licence, then would be dealt with as and when they they present themselves as a pest.
I.e. wiping out a fishery, devestating the stocks of fish, birds and small mamals, on a stretch of river or canal.
Taking away the livelihood of a fish farm, wiping out a pond, basically presenting themselves as pests?
Eventually some will take the law into their own hands, i would take a guess and say, that some of the best salmon beats, have had otter come calling. I wonder, what the ghillie would make of that, grin and bear it? I have my own ideas.
Surely a legal cull is best for everybody, and in the long term, even the otter.
What do i know anyway, i'm just another angry and frustrated angler?
In reply to Post #231
Pag and AT don't want nothing to do with it as you say, but there are members of both organisations who do.
Pag and AT don't want nothing to do with it as you say, but there are members of both organisations who do.
In reply to Post #236
Your missing the point ... dealing with or culling otters is nothing like any other predator. Their behaviour is very complex and is nothing like that of fox, badger, rabbit or rat.
There are closed seasons in place for most species because there are set times of year for breeding - with otters there is not, they can produce young at any time of year.
Agree that illegal removal takes place and that worries me - more so because I was brought up with angling and the first person to actually get caught doing it will end angling as we know and love it and for that reason alone it should not be encouraged
Problem is, if you remove otters from one area the void will be filled within weeks so back to square one
Your missing the point ... dealing with or culling otters is nothing like any other predator. Their behaviour is very complex and is nothing like that of fox, badger, rabbit or rat.
There are closed seasons in place for most species because there are set times of year for breeding - with otters there is not, they can produce young at any time of year.
Agree that illegal removal takes place and that worries me - more so because I was brought up with angling and the first person to actually get caught doing it will end angling as we know and love it and for that reason alone it should not be encouraged
Problem is, if you remove otters from one area the void will be filled within weeks so back to square one
In reply to Post #238
That's a bold statement to make Dave saying the first angler caught killing an otter will end angling as we know it. Personally I doubt it will. If anything it might be the catalyst for something to change, and maybe Natural England might consider the same route as they have done, by issuing a license to someone like they have for buzzards, which I think are in the same category as otters??
That's a bold statement to make Dave saying the first angler caught killing an otter will end angling as we know it. Personally I doubt it will. If anything it might be the catalyst for something to change, and maybe Natural England might consider the same route as they have done, by issuing a license to someone like they have for buzzards, which I think are in the same category as otters??
In reply to Post #238
So, do you have any viable ideas about what “might” be done to offer any hope?
Or, should we as anglers, just keep getting fu**ed over, because of the misguided attitude of otter lovers?
I live among some of the best venuse in the country, and so far they have not seen the destruction and heart ache those furry b*st*rds cause. However, i am not selfish and naive in thinking it's not my problem, as i know it easily could be.
Also, some other areas that i fished years ago, are now finished because of the otter.
For angling to have any kind of future, the otter problem needs to be addressed. Other than that, we all sit back tight lipped, hoping it will never happen to us. For too many though, it already has.
So, do you have any viable ideas about what “might” be done to offer any hope?
Or, should we as anglers, just keep getting fu**ed over, because of the misguided attitude of otter lovers?
I live among some of the best venuse in the country, and so far they have not seen the destruction and heart ache those furry b*st*rds cause. However, i am not selfish and naive in thinking it's not my problem, as i know it easily could be.
Also, some other areas that i fished years ago, are now finished because of the otter.
For angling to have any kind of future, the otter problem needs to be addressed. Other than that, we all sit back tight lipped, hoping it will never happen to us. For too many though, it already has.
In reply to Post #239
James, Buzzards are not in same category ... otters are protected under schedule 5/6 of the W & C act and are also a listed EPS species. Whether that's right or wrong, I'm sure there are many that will fear for angling if one is ever caught doing so. Whilst we know it happens, it will eventually lead to very bad press for angling which is currently whether agreed or not is and always will be classed as a bloodsport no matter what and the backlash that it would cause is, something that I personally would not want to see.
I have said many times before on other pages that control or culling will not make any difference, even if you got rid of all otters you will still have predation and the otter would simply be replaced by another predator - the next one the chai if you like
James, Buzzards are not in same category ... otters are protected under schedule 5/6 of the W & C act and are also a listed EPS species. Whether that's right or wrong, I'm sure there are many that will fear for angling if one is ever caught doing so. Whilst we know it happens, it will eventually lead to very bad press for angling which is currently whether agreed or not is and always will be classed as a bloodsport no matter what and the backlash that it would cause is, something that I personally would not want to see.
I have said many times before on other pages that control or culling will not make any difference, even if you got rid of all otters you will still have predation and the otter would simply be replaced by another predator - the next one the chai if you like
In reply to Post #241
Cormorants were left to do as they pleased, until evidence showed they were causing untold losses to fish stocks. Now there is control of them, not enough control but control none the less.
The main problem with the otter situation is, apart from Joss, Mark and yourself doing all the work and putting in the time you all do, there is very little else, if anything being done.
It really is time, in fact is was quite a while ago, that if anglers care as much about their angling as they profess too, that they should be acting on it.
Some anglers aren't even aware of any issue regarding otter, some aren't currently being effected by them.
I also think, with respect, if you think some aren't prepared to take the matter into their own hands, you're either a little naive, which i doubt, or not being realistic. I used to shoot, (legally) i can tell you now, i had requests to deal with all sorts of animals, many that were protected. When i used to refuse, and point out the law to certain people, many would say, who will know? Or, i won't say anything, i promise.
These were quite petty cases too. Like i say, what about a nice stretch of river, with some lovely salmon runs, and the otter is ravaging the place, do you honestly believe the owners are going to let that happen?
I've fished stretch of rivers years ago for salmon, where if poachers were caught, they had certain things inflicted on them. What kind of reception do you think an otter would receive? If we're to discuss these things, lets at least be honest and realistic.
Cormorants were left to do as they pleased, until evidence showed they were causing untold losses to fish stocks. Now there is control of them, not enough control but control none the less.
The main problem with the otter situation is, apart from Joss, Mark and yourself doing all the work and putting in the time you all do, there is very little else, if anything being done.
It really is time, in fact is was quite a while ago, that if anglers care as much about their angling as they profess too, that they should be acting on it.
Some anglers aren't even aware of any issue regarding otter, some aren't currently being effected by them.
I also think, with respect, if you think some aren't prepared to take the matter into their own hands, you're either a little naive, which i doubt, or not being realistic. I used to shoot, (legally) i can tell you now, i had requests to deal with all sorts of animals, many that were protected. When i used to refuse, and point out the law to certain people, many would say, who will know? Or, i won't say anything, i promise.
These were quite petty cases too. Like i say, what about a nice stretch of river, with some lovely salmon runs, and the otter is ravaging the place, do you honestly believe the owners are going to let that happen?
I've fished stretch of rivers years ago for salmon, where if poachers were caught, they had certain things inflicted on them. What kind of reception do you think an otter would receive? If we're to discuss these things, lets at least be honest and realistic.
In reply to Post #242
I can relate to the Salmon Poaching Steve as the Wye was heavily poached and some of the punishments handed out to those that were caught are unprintable, they were always one step ahead of the authorities but the land owners were a bit sharper same with the deer poaching.
I got word yesterday from a good friend that one of the day ticket waters near Ross on Wye that holds carp to mid 30's and probably the best venue around here for fish of that size for open access lake fishing has been predated by an Otter in the last day or two, he was walking the banks and found the evidence yesterday.
Unfortunately the guy who owns and runs it is in for a shock when word gets about as he will go from a very busy day ticket to a ghost venue, its a natural water that nobody really knows how the stock got put in there but the owner has had a good run of taking money on the bank, the problem now is that's all he was in it for (opportunist profiteering) a fence wont be happening as it means spending money also restocking means spending money so again it wont be happening, its a shame as the specimen carp fishing around here is pretty poor I can only think of one fenced fishery in and around our neck of the woods.
I can relate to the Salmon Poaching Steve as the Wye was heavily poached and some of the punishments handed out to those that were caught are unprintable, they were always one step ahead of the authorities but the land owners were a bit sharper same with the deer poaching.
I got word yesterday from a good friend that one of the day ticket waters near Ross on Wye that holds carp to mid 30's and probably the best venue around here for fish of that size for open access lake fishing has been predated by an Otter in the last day or two, he was walking the banks and found the evidence yesterday.
Unfortunately the guy who owns and runs it is in for a shock when word gets about as he will go from a very busy day ticket to a ghost venue, its a natural water that nobody really knows how the stock got put in there but the owner has had a good run of taking money on the bank, the problem now is that's all he was in it for (opportunist profiteering) a fence wont be happening as it means spending money also restocking means spending money so again it wont be happening, its a shame as the specimen carp fishing around here is pretty poor I can only think of one fenced fishery in and around our neck of the woods.
In reply to Post #243
Ian, you're absolutely right mate, about what happens to poachers.
It seems to be like that, anywhere that has good salmon runs. I used to do a bit of work for a family, who had a nice stretch of the Test. Salmon, sea trout etc were there in good numbers. My mate and me were often invited to fish, great days on there.
Then we found out how they dealt with poachers, turns out they were a well known, no nonsense family, and they had a lot of security blokes on their books.
Same on parts of the Spey, Tay, Tweed and Dee etc. They deal their own justice on poachers. I fished the Spey many moons ago, and our ghillie told me what happens to poachers, or anything else that helps itself to the stock, uninvited.
That's a real shame about the local lake mate, just reading your post made me sad and frustrated. Is it far from Redmire? As i guess they could easily discover that too in time?
Bloody terrible state of affairs, like the petition, i get that it probably wasn't as well thought out as it could have been. I honestly believe their intentions were good though, and they are probably very frustrated like lots of us.
Not sure what we're supposed to do, wait for the otter to eat everything, then quit fishing, we won't even be able to sell our gear, as it will be of no use to anybody?
We could all join an otter watching club?
Ian, you're absolutely right mate, about what happens to poachers.
It seems to be like that, anywhere that has good salmon runs. I used to do a bit of work for a family, who had a nice stretch of the Test. Salmon, sea trout etc were there in good numbers. My mate and me were often invited to fish, great days on there.
Then we found out how they dealt with poachers, turns out they were a well known, no nonsense family, and they had a lot of security blokes on their books.
Same on parts of the Spey, Tay, Tweed and Dee etc. They deal their own justice on poachers. I fished the Spey many moons ago, and our ghillie told me what happens to poachers, or anything else that helps itself to the stock, uninvited.
That's a real shame about the local lake mate, just reading your post made me sad and frustrated. Is it far from Redmire? As i guess they could easily discover that too in time?
Bloody terrible state of affairs, like the petition, i get that it probably wasn't as well thought out as it could have been. I honestly believe their intentions were good though, and they are probably very frustrated like lots of us.
Not sure what we're supposed to do, wait for the otter to eat everything, then quit fishing, we won't even be able to sell our gear, as it will be of no use to anybody?
We could all join an otter watching club?
In reply to Post #242
I agree, I am fully aware that some are dealt with under the radar - everyone knows that!
It still isn't the solution - its just an act of frustration that will eventually lead to someone being fined or imprisoned
I agree, I am fully aware that some are dealt with under the radar - everyone knows that!
It still isn't the solution - its just an act of frustration that will eventually lead to someone being fined or imprisoned
In reply to Post #245
So, what do you suggest Dave, i mean apart from the legal trapping in the confines of a fenced water?
Are there other plans, or ideas in place? The otter is eradicating fish, birds and small mammals, at an alarming rate, and nobody apart from possibly some under the radar, are doing anything?
So, what do you suggest Dave, i mean apart from the legal trapping in the confines of a fenced water?
Are there other plans, or ideas in place? The otter is eradicating fish, birds and small mammals, at an alarming rate, and nobody apart from possibly some under the radar, are doing anything?
In reply to Post #245
I should like to add a welcome to Dave Webb on here. We may be on the other side of the coin, so to speak, but I will always acknowledge a reasonable man, and Dave does appear to be such a person.
I should like to add a welcome to Dave Webb on here. We may be on the other side of the coin, so to speak, but I will always acknowledge a reasonable man, and Dave does appear to be such a person.
In reply to Post #244
Not far at all as the crowflies Steve probably less than 5 miles about 8 or 9 by road, Redmire has been predated for sometime now.
I've done my days of travelling to lakes around the Uk and I've been quite happy fishing locally the last few years but everywhere around Herefordshire is getting predated, very very sad times.
Not far at all as the crowflies Steve probably less than 5 miles about 8 or 9 by road, Redmire has been predated for sometime now.
I've done my days of travelling to lakes around the Uk and I've been quite happy fishing locally the last few years but everywhere around Herefordshire is getting predated, very very sad times.
In reply to Post #248
I had heard rumours of predation at Redmire Ian, and some i spoke too played it down.
Really is a bloody shame.
I know what you mean about local fishing, i was lucky in having many good waters on my doorstep, or not far away. I still used to like a change though, so did travel around quite a bit.
Since getting back into it, i want to fish local again now, because of limited time etc but, many of the clubs and syndicates i once took for granted, now have long waiting lists, and at my age, by time i'll get an interview, i'll have a zimmer frame!
Then, one water that is dear to me, i managed to get a ticket for again, and finally decided to tackle it again, for old times sake, it had an oxygen crash, and massive fish kill.
It took years to get back from the last fish kill in the 90's.
I was trully gutted, i can imagine how people feel when the otter strikes now. To have everything taken, in one swoop, and not being able to do anything is awful.
I'm doing a bit of long distance angling again now, which i'm enjoying apart from traffic. Might be moving soon too, so new challenges hopefully.
Never fished Redmire, although stood on the banks there twice. I didn't feel the magic there though, as i think that's long gone.
Lovely water though, amazing in fact, back in the day, and a lovely part of the world you live in, which should have an abundance of good angling, instead of the doom and gloom.
I do honestly feel for you mate.
I had heard rumours of predation at Redmire Ian, and some i spoke too played it down.
Really is a bloody shame.
I know what you mean about local fishing, i was lucky in having many good waters on my doorstep, or not far away. I still used to like a change though, so did travel around quite a bit.
Since getting back into it, i want to fish local again now, because of limited time etc but, many of the clubs and syndicates i once took for granted, now have long waiting lists, and at my age, by time i'll get an interview, i'll have a zimmer frame!
Then, one water that is dear to me, i managed to get a ticket for again, and finally decided to tackle it again, for old times sake, it had an oxygen crash, and massive fish kill.
It took years to get back from the last fish kill in the 90's.
I was trully gutted, i can imagine how people feel when the otter strikes now. To have everything taken, in one swoop, and not being able to do anything is awful.
I'm doing a bit of long distance angling again now, which i'm enjoying apart from traffic. Might be moving soon too, so new challenges hopefully.
Never fished Redmire, although stood on the banks there twice. I didn't feel the magic there though, as i think that's long gone.
Lovely water though, amazing in fact, back in the day, and a lovely part of the world you live in, which should have an abundance of good angling, instead of the doom and gloom.
I do honestly feel for you mate.