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In reply to Post #51
Out of interest, which method do you use to load your spools, off the side of the spool or the upright pencil-type one?
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When using my boat I used to flick my bail arm and control my line with my hand but this caused massive line twist. Over short distances let my reel reverse now and get much less twist..although I'm a lefty so it's quite difficult to control it sometimes!
..the roller/rotor has to go around the reel to stop the twist.
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In reply to Post #49
I disagree
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In reply to Post #45
Spool oscillation is just for line lay. It has nothing to do with line twist.
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In reply to Post #47
Yes I have but I’m just to trying to understand why.
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In reply to Post #46
If you've ever done it, or seen it done you'd know it doesn't remain to be seen, it undoubtedly adds a huge amount of twist!
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In reply to Post #45
You may be right but the spool is oscillating using the clutch method. Whether this adds twist remains to be seen.
Edit: you are right about the spool not oscillating, I was getting confused what oscillating meant 
I wonder if there’s a way to do an experiment using a thick clear sea fishing mono, permanent marker pen the line on the spool so that one side of the line has a black line on then load using one of the methods discussed & see how the line appears? The twist should be easily noticeable I would’ve thought.
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In reply to Post #43
Sounds reasonable, apart from the last paragraph. By using the clutch to bait boat out rigs you are adding far more twist than you'd of loaded imo, due to the spool not oscillating while the line is coming off
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In reply to Post #41
I have a few spools to do but no time atm. Will report back eventually.
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I’ve been trying to think about this logically & I think by loading line the ESP video way, the reel is adding one full twist of the line per full rotation of the reel’s bail arm.
I think when you then cast using an open bail arm this twist is automatically removed as the coils are free to travel off the side of your reel’s spool.
I think by loading the line on using the side spool method, the reel is loaded with (near) zero twist but then when you cast, the line coming naturally off the side of your reel’s spool actually adds one revolution of twist per coil of line on your reel.
If my thinking is correct (up for debate), then the side loading method would suit those who use the clutch to baitboat out rigs as this way the line is removed with identical twist to which it was loaded - if that makes sense.
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In reply to Post #41
I agree, I get no twist issue doing it this way, but used to by using the method in those videos. And that's using the gr60 which is shown in them
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In reply to Post #37
I'm not convinced. The theory sounds good but my line behaves much better with the method advocated in posts 19 and 34.
It will be interesting to see how you get on when switching to the over the side of the spool.
Please let us know how you get on 
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In reply to Post #36
My line has to come off the side of the spool as it's too big to hold with a pencil 
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In reply to Post #38
What he said. Every few months if needed 
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I just walk my lines out on a field ,takes all twist out 100%
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In reply to Post #35
Having watched both the vids I have realised I've been doing it wrong. These vids are as definitive a proof as you're ever going to get. I will be buying a spin doctor asap too. I did have one when they first came on the market. It got bitten off by a pike on the 4th cast, so I didn't persevere with it. More fool me . Thanks. I'm always prepared to learn.
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In reply to Post #34
Agreed yet many others are saying don't do it that way and favour the line coming off the side of the spool after taking care to work out what side is the correct side.
If it works for them then who are we to say they are doing it wrong but I've gone back to the method shown in your video and that works for me.
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Hi, bit over the top.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFu7UNmS1EQ&t=156s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbeWtsJnVC8
If you use say a pencil through the spool, every rotation of the reels rotor, will put one twist in the line.
Put the spool on its end in a bucket etc with water in it (for lubrication).
Make sure the line is coming off spool, same way as reel rotor is spinning ie normally anti clockwise. Due to diff diameters, if line starts getting twists in, turn spool over so it comes off clockwise for a short time. Then back to anti clockwise.
If your loading a multiplier/ baitcaster reel, just put a pencil through the spool.
As this will be how line is loaded in a factory on the plastic spools ie no line twists in line.
Spinning Reels put twist in the line, at least for initial loading of line onto there spools, follow above.
IMO most twist in line after that, is caused by using the drag.
Try sending a bait boat out a few times, say 100m, with bail arm closed & drag slacked off.
Seen it & its amazing seeing 100m of line with loads of long twirls in it, consisting
of 100's of twists. I did help guy out, but it was a nightmare.
Bob
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Have a look at this video for loading line, exactly how I’ve done it for years…
https://youtu.be/_cWWGPOki8k?si=G8u4LvN8dBBcS4zz
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In reply to Post #31
Hi m8,havnt got the spec handy,
The xtd,s you refer to haven’t got a touch on my XTB,s different reels altogether,still fetching £1000 + for a mint set of 3 ,happy new year,🥳
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In reply to Post #23
In simple terms.
Imagine when your mono is first loaded onto the plastic spool in Japan, Taiwan or wherever. It will be a blank plastic spool. As the machine loads the spool of mono. There will be some twist added. That is unavoidable when a mile of mono is wrapped around a tight spool. Then the stickers will be added denoting what tackle seller the spool of line is going too, BS etc. It will be totally random as to what side of the spool the sticker goes onto on most lines.
It's up to you to find out using the foolproof method I explained earlier.
"It does not matter what your personal preference of loading your mono onto your spools is. A pencil, or standing the spool on its side. You will still mess it up and add tonnes of twist unless you actually load it the correct way off the spool".
If you do not want to take it off the spool, with the spool on its side... Do it with a pencil if that is what you have always prefered. It simply doesn't really matter that much in reality. What matters is that when you are filling your reel spool and adding your little bit of twist... You are reversing the twist imparted when the manufacturer first loaded it on. If you simply add more twist the same way... That's a proper coily nightmare, and we have all been there. Just keep stopping and looking at the tip, your line will tell you... Don't just wind it all on at 5000mph like your life depends on it  . If it is coiling into knots... Get the person holding your pencil to turn the spool over. If it is coming from bottom of spool then coiling, you want it the other way coming off the top of the bulk spool. You will find the opposite happens when you do and there will be no more coiling up in knots when you release tension on the line. You are adding twist, but reversing what the manufacturer did.
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In reply to Post #30
Whats the spec of them compared to the obsidian biggsy?
The biggest disappointment of the shimano xtd's for me was the bail arms, they gave me Uri Gellar power, everytime I pulled them out of the rod bag they shape shifted, think my 80's first portable colour tv aerial was the same diameter lol, take it yours are wider??
He's the obsidian features/specs,
.
35mm stroke with super slow oscillation
Light weight C-40X carbon frame and sideplates
C-40X Cyclonic Flow Rotor for corrosion resistance
Ultra light Screw in handle
Ultra light spool
Even Flow Roller System with DLC coating
Frictionless main Shaft design
Ultra-lightweight, A7075 aluminum shaft
Rotor with tangle guard - prevents line from entering the shaft
Rotor brake system
Carbon fiber drag system
Fast progressive drag
All HPB Bearing
Worm shaft transmission system
One-Piece Bail
Gearing stabilization design
Extra 1 spool with 2 reducers (it can be reduced to 8000 or 1500)
9HPB+RB for ultimate smoothness.
Gear ratio 4.3:1
Weight 520g
Max drag 18kg
Bearings 8+1
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In reply to Post #29
Had a few reels in my time’
Bought a mint second hand set of shimano black mags xtb’s..........best I’ve ever had,fitted Weston speed caps,so smooth,👌👌
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In reply to Post #26
I bought a set as wanted a change from the shimano xtd's, the obsidian are a massive upgrade, they feel quality, look brilliant and as you say perform, makes me chuckle when people ask about them on here and everyone talks about other reels or line lay etc, for me it's spec, if looking surely it's spec v spec?
Anyway, if you look on a previous search of okuma obsidian, one guy spoke about a quarter of turn from free running to locked up, he changed the washers to felt from westons I think and said he's got 3/4 to a full turn now, which sounds perfect, when the weather changes like Arnie, 'I be back' with different washers in mine 😉
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In reply to Post #27
Id of thought it was more logical to remove it from the bulk spool the reverse of how it went onto it, and that your bail arm roller prevented adding twist? Hence that's why they make those spool holders to help with loading your reels the way they do
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In reply to Post #21
My understanding of the side of spool method is that you are adding twist by putting it on your reel ‘sideways’ so if you take it off the bulk spool the opposite way it counteracts the twist you’re adding at the reel. No idea if there’s truth in this but it does make some logical sense.
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I got a set of obsidians over 2 months ago. I go fishing 2 to 3 times a week and have just got the kit that enables me to night fish and I have done that twice already over the last 10 days or so. (i would like to think im not a fairweather angler is the point I'm trying to make)
I love the reels, line lay is great, casts well, drag initiates very smoothly. The one thing i wish i could change about them is the quick drag, it feels like it is about a third of a turn (maybe less) from free spool to locked up. So there has been times during a fight where im wanting an additional click because i feel the drag is too light or too strong.
There was a away on old wychwood reels where you could take a spring out of the drag cap, compress it and it would make the reel closer to a Quick Drag setup, thinking i might be able to do the same with my obsidians but stretch the spring out instead.
It's not essential, they still perform great as they are and wont cost me any fish.
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In reply to Post #20
Same here, never had any twist doing it this way so I’ve never changed my way of loading it no matter what the manufacturers state
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The reels themselves don't add line twist. Carp anglers do.
It does not matter what your personal preference of loading your mono onto your spools is. A pencil, or standing the spool on its side. You will still mess it up and add tonnes of twist unless you actually load it the correct way off the spool.
What is the correct way off the spool?
Well there are only two ways it can be loaded by the original manufacturer in regards where the label is placed on the spool, clockwise or anti clockwise. The trouble is, every manufacturer in China/Japan would seem to do it different, or can change at any time it also seems. I think myself personally, there is no set way. I think it's actually random. So you have a 50% chance of getting it wrong and adding loads of twist 
Do this.
Connect your mainline onto the spool as normal and wind on five yards with the spool of line on it's flat side and the label facing up. This is the really important bit.... Stop and look at the line by the tip. If it is coiling badly when you take away tension, you are winding on the wrong way. You will twist the line really bad if you continue and fill your spool this way. Stop and turn the spool over. Wind on another five yards, stop and look at the line from the tip ring. It should be hanging limp with absolutely zero twist. You are now loading the correct way. You are coming off the spool the opposite way to which the mono was loaded onto the spool by the (original) manufacturer. Anyone telling you to do it floating in a bucket of water has no clue. It spins and rotates. 50% of the time as you load the spool you will be loading the line with loads of twist. There is a right way, and a wrong way. It is up to you to find out for yourself by doing what I just told you.
Mono soaked in warm water behaves by far the best as already mentioned. But it also serves another purpose. The warm water fills the mono and it expands ever so slightly. When you load the complete spool it is wet. When it dries, it tightens. Meaning you do not have any loose coils lower on the spool which affect line lay.
If your lines get twisted by you walking loads of line off the baitrunner/clutch all the time. Walk them out over a distance and reel in the bare line every now and then. The twist will all disappear.
Buying a different brand of reel will solve nothing. As others have mentioned you have to load the line correctly and then maintain it as well. 99% of carp anglers simply do not do this. Then moan about line twist.
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In reply to Post #19
There is a video on YouTube of them loading synchro Xt they put it in a small container of water so the spool is standing up with the line coming off the back I’ve always done it like that and with a wet microfiber towel keeping tension on the line.
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In reply to Post #19
Never understood the side of spool method. It doesn't get wound on that way, so why take it off that way? Definitely one way to add twist
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In reply to Post #19
I've always soaked line overnight and wound it on using the pencil method, under tension through a damp cloth. Never let me down. Soaking mono overnight makes it act like cotton.
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In reply to Post #15
What way do esp recommend?
Once upon a time you'd put a pencil or something through the hole and let the spool spin.
Then we were told to allow the line to come off the side of the spool.
Now some are saying we should revert to the original method which is what I've gone back to.
Like This
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In reply to Post #15
I think if you blindly follow a manufacturers (actually "suppliers" would be more accurate) guidelines for filling your reels then I'm afraid it is too much like pot luck...
I always put the new spool into a pan with a couple of inches of warm water and a little drip of washing up liquid (to break down surface tension), then reel the line through a damp cloth that also has a dot of washing up liquid on it.
After 20 or so turns I will slacken the line and see if it's curling or behaving. If it's curling I turn the spool over and continue. Another 20 turns and check again. If it's all OK then just crack on and load it.
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In reply to Post #15
God knows then
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In reply to Post #15
Do the rotors go in the same direction on both the Penn and Daiwa reels?
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In reply to Post #14
18lb esp synchro st had the same problems on both penns and I have the same line on the tournaments with zero problems could be coincidence I’m not sure I always load it the way esp recommends.
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In reply to Post #13
What line was it? Something definitely caused it, rather than the reels I can guarantee that. I never had any issues with twist, even when I had a 120lb+ catfish and played it on the clutch for 45 minutes . I've never owned tournies, had a little play with them and they felt quite clunky to me.
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In reply to Post #9
I will say the clutch on the penn was fantastic and the line lay was good, maybe I expected a little much from then for the price. The biggest issue was the line twist (it really was horrendous with big coils getting wrapped around everything) and occasionally the line going behind the spool. Maybe the line twist was my fault not the reel idk 🤷♂️. As someone stated the 5000t are twice as much and over three times more expensive with Weston upgrades so the comparison is unfair.
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In reply to Post #11
At least a couple of posters here I think though problem is they likely have not been put through there paces so your not really going to get decent feedback - there are a lot of ‘fair weather anglers’
I was thinking of some new reels also but am planning to see what else comes out in the next few months / folk have tested a bit more.
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Has any one got the Okuma obsidians?
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In reply to Post #7
Reels don't give you line twist. It's how you load the line and how you maintain it.
I recently noticed that changing from my normal dumpy pear lead to hex distance leads massively increased line twist as they must have been spinning on the retrieve.
I had a spin of a mates shimmy xte reels and they seem lovely.
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In reply to Post #7
You're the first person I've ever seen be negative about them. Not sure how you got line twist with them, I never did . Don't agree about the looks either but that's subjective anyway. Honestly they were awesome reels
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In reply to Post #7
No doubting the 5000T’s are a superior reel but they are roughly double the price of the Penn reels 
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In reply to Post #4
I had the worst line twist with them, I thought the line clips was harsh on line when using mono, they felt bulky and heavy. I also hated how the handles folded down to pack them away and one of the screws in the handle fell out luckily I found it and put it back in. I also had one on a spod rod which I admit I abused but it pretty much seized up in 6 months. I replaced them with tournament 5000t one with the Weston development upgrades I did myself and one came from weston development already upgraded I like them better in every single way, I used the exact same line I did with the penns and had no line twist issues what so ever. The tournaments also feel a lot lighter and smoother cranking in and with weston spools the line clips are far better and they look so much better than the penns.
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Appreciate the replies gents 👍🏽 keep them coming! Think I’m going to go for the obsidians after the reviews on emblems
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In reply to Post #1
I had the Emblems, used them for less than 6 months and then got rid of them. Didn't like the clutch, the line guard is flimsy and the line kept getting stuck behind the spool. Went back to my old Affinities which are great and have none of those issues. Also got myself a set of Shinano XTE's and so far I have been very happy with those and used them without issue for the last 6 months at my syndicate
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In reply to Post #3
Really? Why?
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In reply to Post #2
I have penn affinitys 3 I was not really impressed at all with them they was okay use them as spares now.
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In reply to Post #1
I have the emblems. They are alright, nothing special Tbh. The Penn affinity are a superior reel for a lower price
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I’m in the market for some new long distance casting reels, I’ve had my shimano longcasts for 10/15 years now. I have been looking at the Okuma Obsidian or the Daiwa 23 emblem 45s.
After a bit of feedback on either reels? Pros & cons of both? Performance etc
Thanks in advance 👍🏽
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