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 #84 25 Nov 2022 at 9.17am | |  |   |
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Nice, but i would remove 1 or 2 ingredients from each group, add some wheat flour to the binders, add some salt, maybe some spices and of course plenty of liquid attraction. In general, i don't think a good recipe needs 20 ingredients, 12 additional liquids and 8 special powders, and i think the fish agree with that 
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#83 24 Nov 2022 at 5.37pm | | | |
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I've been playing around with another test mix, wondered your thoughts gents.
100g Sardine & Anchovy Meal
100g LT94 Fishmeal
80g CPSP 90
50g Krill Meal
20g Kelp Meal
220g Birdfood
50g Haiths Robin Red
40g WPC 80
40g Lamlac
30g Brocacel Yeast
115g Semolina
85g Soya Flour (FFHT)
70g Micronized Maize Meal
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#82 30 Aug 2022 at 8.19am | | | |
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In reply to Post #1
The ingredients don't look bad. However, the combination of Kingfisher Red and Betaine Anhydrous scares the hell out of me. You better stick to fewer ingredients that your body craves, rather than exaggerate and get poisoned.
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#81 14 Jul 2022 at 7.24pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #79
Do you keep all the recipies
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#80 14 Jul 2022 at 7.16pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #79
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#79 13 Jul 2022 at 4.21pm | |  1 | |
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In reply to Post #77
I'm on mix 120 now and that doesn't include many tweaks that have given great baits like 97d (d for the 4th set of tweaks to mix 97), now that was a good one
edit to add mix 1 was in the mid 80's (and was rubbish, it feel apart when it got wet!) so been at it a little while 
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#78 12 Jul 2022 at 10.07pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #76
I know we’ve spoken a lot over messages about your mix, ive never bothered to ask how you’re comparing and correlating data? It’s always interesting to here other people’s methods of data gathering
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#77 12 Jul 2022 at 6.42pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #76
Well
done, your a better man than me 
I would have given up by mix 3
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#76 12 Jul 2022 at 6.33pm | | 3 | |
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Hi guys, I'm very happy to report that my fishmeal test mix number 27, has been off to an absolute flyer in recent weeks!
150g Norse LT94
120g Semolina
90g CLO Birdfood
80g CPSP 90 Fishmeal
70g LT Sardine & Anchovy meal
70g Haiths Red Factor
70g Kingfisher Red
70g Polenta
60g WPC80
50g Acid Casein 90 Mesh
50g Krill meal
50g FFHT Soya flour
40g NOW Beef Liver powder
20g Kelp powder
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#75 26 Jun 2022 at 11.45pm | | | |
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I know I said PM but I’m too tired to care anymore lol
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#74 26 Jun 2022 at 11.44pm | | 2 | |
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In reply to Post #71
Ok so, third times the charm as I keep loosing paragraphs. Just incase I do , mainly, it’s a taste enhancer.
Any ingredient, Belechan or otherwise, I’d better understood in relation to what it is mixed with. In my experience it’s nutritional benefits are negligible simply because I’m incorporating into already nutrient dense mixes, so my reasoning for its inclusion may be otherwise.
When you speak about making your low level ingredient mix, what you choose to include is very much going to play a larger part because there is less parts to play? If I’m working that right at nearly midnight on a Sunday lol.
Salts, as I have already hinted, are massively effective palatant agents for fish, literally every bait you ever make will benefit from a small amount of salt being added.
And although all salt effective, I will maintain that the very top of the tree source of this is from belechan. It regards the fermentation stage of production to a manageable stage and you get a lot of umami flavours from it when cooking with.
I like to especially add it to hemp.
I avoid adding it to anything I want to promote bacterial activity in as salt creates a hostile environment. I will add it to the same items however after any reacts I want, such as funky maize or snotty tigers, just as I’m fishing with it.
It’s very good cubed into a spod mix. If your nostrils can take it chunking it into 10mm pieces and sprinkling a few in the spod each time creates little salt rich parcels which dissolve into whatever substrate you’re fishing over. It keeps fish there for an eternity.
It’s an awesome paste wrap
You can add it into liquid soaks by grate a block and leave it in a readable bag with a half cup of water for a few days it goes really soft and will then blend into a liquid in a food processor without lumps.
Mixing the resultant sludge with some fish sauce and hydrolysates is always a winner. You actually get particulate food off tge Belechan as there is a lot of solids in it.
I get a really nice high shrimp version but there are some inferior once’s out there. The softer pastes are also good but the block seems to out fish it.
25 / 100 grams per kilo of finished bait is abojt right depending on what else is in your mix. The higher the fishmeal / Maine content the lower the amount I’ll add. I do not like to go below 50g per kilo however.
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#73 26 Jun 2022 at 11.07pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #71
Yes, meeting an angler/s who's understanding of carp & bait is on another level to most and beyond what is being sold, very rare to find let alone getting information out of them!
Good luck with your bait making.
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#72 26 Jun 2022 at 10.54pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #71
And whilst that’s true, we all tend to give away 90/95% of the info as the real gems aren’t written anywhere.
And I want it to remain that way as you say I make and sell and it’s my sole income so must continue to do so :P
But I will however PM you some of the info, just sorting out a few routines before getting off to the land of nod but I’ll try and find some time tonight
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#71 26 Jun 2022 at 9.53pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #70
You can read all the papers in the world and browse the internet all night… but is there a substitute for someone’s knowledge whom makes and sells bait for a living?
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#70 26 Jun 2022 at 9.36pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #68
You don't need me to tell you, quick google ( read that as code for Im doing a poo then takng the dog for a walk ) but massive influx of salts, instantly attractive, 25-50g a kilo is the sweet spot for it. increases catch rates in every fishmeal I've put it in.
Seems to work very synergistically with the powder hydros such as cpsp90 or similer.
I only mention it as Im stariing at another 1000 blocks and not sure where to put them lol
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#69 26 Jun 2022 at 9.13pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #68
Makes it pen and ink
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#68 26 Jun 2022 at 9.10pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #67
Hmm you got my attention Mozz.
Talk to me about the benefits that Belechan can add to a fishmeal bait!
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#67 26 Jun 2022 at 8.33pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #64
Lemme know if you want some Belechan I just took another delivery and literally have no space 😂
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#66 26 Jun 2022 at 8.28am | | | |
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In reply to Post #64
Hope u have it off
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#65 25 Jun 2022 at 10.46pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #64
Happy rolling, and then plenty of  using it
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#64 25 Jun 2022 at 7.13pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #63
Yes buddy - I was referring to me. Not sure why I stopped using my version of the four-part Fish Base mix.
After reading some sound posts on this thread I have ordered 20kg worth of ingredients.
As soon as I get my crazy work schedule out the way after mid July, gonna start rollin’ rollin’ !!!
Happy days…
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#63 25 Jun 2022 at 5.23pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #62
It can.
But we have some great, common sense & laymans terms, contributors on here.
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#62 25 Jun 2022 at 4.25pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #61
Reading others conversations can also make you realise what you have forgotten whilst taking a journey down a rabbit hole!
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#61 25 Jun 2022 at 3.53pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #60
Nothing stupid there, any bait containing fish, milk and birdseed in the right amounts along with some carbs is a winner
Everyone learns something from this forum, conversations make you think, and evolve your own thinking 🤔
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#60 25 Jun 2022 at 3.00pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #59
I think that's it, what I aim for is a bit of fish, milk and birdi
Lol, I think I'm just covering all bases, is that what thay call a balanced bait, lol I'll stop now before I say something stupid
Opps
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#59 25 Jun 2022 at 2.26pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #58
You and me both. Think the average carp anglers 🧠 brain can only take so much TBH.
Tim’s writings on bait back in the day were quite milk protein high, involved, interesting and sort of groundbreaking in terms of knowledge out to the masses via books and magazines, after Fred Wilton’s HNV become known, and The great Rod Hutchinson and Geoff Kemp, etc.
Depends what side of the fence your Fishmeal bait choice is.
Attractor
HNV
Bit of both
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#58 25 Jun 2022 at 12.32pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #57
Yes, I was just asking as years ago I read everything on bait by Tim paisley passed on to me by a mate, in the end I could not take enymore, my lack of perseverance, but some things in my mind still hurt , it's more curiosity than me doing bait again
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#57 25 Jun 2022 at 12.15pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #56
Give them a bait they like to eat in the real world of pond, find attractive.
You can have a great bait on paper, but it doesn’t send the fish into a frenzy in the pond.
Worry about the nutrition and science bit afterwards.
Enjoy the experimenting
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#56 25 Jun 2022 at 10.36am | | | |
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I know people talk about protein content etc, but is it best to know the biological value of a bait
and is that the protein the fish can utilize,or am I talking cack
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#55 25 Jun 2022 at 10.14am | | | |
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In reply to Post #52
I think the price has been high since a Dragons Den episode.
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#53 24 Jun 2022 at 10.16pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #51
Mixes don’t half change often for you buddy 😂 bless ya socks.
Weigh yourself eggs as they change volume and weight all the time, crack 300g ( about six ) into a measured jug on a scale and bear in mind the volume.
For 300g of liquid egg to make around 800g finished bait I keep hydros PRE boiling at around 120g per kilo, so I’d personally up the calanus to about 90g.
I would have a bit of oil on stand by if the mix moss behaves, to 300g egg 10g hemp oil isn’t going to do anything to its detriment.
Try blending hydros, you mind find something that suites you.
And if you aren’t bothered what colour it is sub the kingfisher for an even blend of red chilli powder or paprika, and garlic powder.
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#52 24 Jun 2022 at 4.42pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #43
Price of breadcrumb gonna hit the roof soon  
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#51 24 Jun 2022 at 4.35pm | | | |
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Had a quick guess at the profile of the recipe I've decided on trialing after numerous tweaks and test mixes this week.
Protein 43% Fat 8.5%
160g Norse LT94 Fishmeal 10 / 16
150g CLO and Red Factor Birdfood blend 1.8 / 9
110g Semolina 0.5 / 1
100g LT Sardine & Anchovy meal 6.3 / 9
80g CPSP90 PDF Fishmeal 6.8 / 8
70g Acid Casein 90 Mesh 6.3 / 1.5
70g Polenta 0.5 / 0.5
60g Kingfisher Red 0.7 / 10.2
60g FFHT Soya flour 2.2 / 13.2
50g WPC80 4 / 4
50g Hydrolysed Liver powder 3 / 11
20g Kelp powder 0.2 / 1
20g GLME (Full Fat Feedstim) 0.6 / 1
Per Six large eggs
20ml Calanus Hydrolysate
3ml John Baker Ala Salar flavour
1ml John Baker Plum or Peach flavour
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#50 24 Jun 2022 at 4.26pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #49
Mate, your input and advice is valuable and always appreciated
There are risks with harsh banter, that goes beyond a certain threshold, and most of the time, we just ignore and move on, but when it occurs on a daily basis, there´s so much one can take before exploding.
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#48 24 Jun 2022 at 2.01pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #47
and a lower profit margin, something has to give to stay profitable.
Up the end user price, or cheapen the mix.
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#47 24 Jun 2022 at 1.55pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #46
Quality comes with a price tag 
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#46 24 Jun 2022 at 1.27pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #43
And people aren’t at all suspicious there bait “packed with milk proteins” hasn’t gone up in price 🤣
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#45 24 Jun 2022 at 12.52pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #42
A good starting point, before you start balancing your profile :-
350g - LT94 Fishmeal
150g - CLO
75g - Semolina
75g - FFHT Soya flour
100g - CPSP90
50g - Acid Casein
100g - WPC80
50g - Hydrolysed Liver powder
30g - Krill meal
20g - Kelp powder
Tweak when necessary ... texture and binders.
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#44 24 Jun 2022 at 11.05am | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #43
Yes, a quality fishmeal and milk bait costs, and hurt our pocket now. Mozzi did warn us.
Use the best, Use less.
Some anglers will still choose BLING over BAIT 
It's the most important thing, after watercraft and location
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#43 24 Jun 2022 at 10.29am | | | |
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In reply to Post #23
Cripes. I've just seen how much milks have gone up. That is scary!
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#42 23 Jun 2022 at 1.01pm | | | |
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Thank you gents.
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#41 22 Jun 2022 at 11.49pm | | | |
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Just go with a CLO or any egg based birdfood, so long as you have a spec sheet.
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#40 22 Jun 2022 at 11.22pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #37
EMP is another canary food available in Jollyes pet shops, and many others, you may have one locally.
save on postage.
Emp Egg Food 2.5kg is £12.89
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#39 22 Jun 2022 at 8.02pm | | 3 | |
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In reply to Post #38
The dry one is really good, the wet one with honey is oilly and need To be careful with the other ingrédient in the mix.
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#38 22 Jun 2022 at 4.05pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #37
Versele laga dry Eggfood is very good, expect to pay up to £4 per kilo if buying 10kg. I haven't used it but if the "moist" version is made so with honey that might be even better.
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#37 22 Jun 2022 at 3.12pm | | | |
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Gents looking to purchase a birdfood to add to the recipe at 15%, decided to steer away from bait firms own recipe CLO's and overpriced birdfoods etc. Orlux canary eggfood dry is one I've been looking at purchasing, see also CEDE eggfood mentioned on a search.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 |  | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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#36 22 Jun 2022 at 9.04am | | | |
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In reply to Post #34
Many moons ago, late 80's if my memory serves me right,
I had my first ever 30 using their ingredients and then 2 days later another!
I have the photos somewhere
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#35 22 Jun 2022 at 8.59am | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #1
best advice i could give.
use Petes BM1 as a starting point.
add some hydros, a spice package, some yeasts maybe, the options are endless.
but you will already be working with a proven bait that catches fish and is stable in its current form.
i rolled a variation of BM1 and did really well on a water im fishing, dont forget that the ingredients chosen are just the beginning when you're rolling your own bait. so many edges can be made without even changing ingredients.
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#34 21 Jun 2022 at 11.56pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #33
Joss in a Premier baits T Shirt 
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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#33 20 Jun 2022 at 7.05am | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #30
i got all the ingredients from Premier baits, i even bought a T Shirt back then
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#32 20 Jun 2022 at 0.55am | | | |
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In reply to Post #29
The other binder/s
My guess, probably WPC 80 or vitamealo/lambs milk replacer.
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#31 19 Jun 2022 at 11.18pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #26
I’d swap out salmon and up the LT94
Lower the CLO and increase the wpc80
Add liver, kelp, glm
Ditch the flavours and add proper hydros
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#30 19 Jun 2022 at 10.00pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #28
Cypry Seed was Geoff's own version of CLO. That aided the binding.
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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#29 19 Jun 2022 at 9.21pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #28
im sure there was summut else, but i was along time ago mate...i'll have to have a re think
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#28 19 Jun 2022 at 9.08pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #27
there doesnt seem much in that mix to bind it, three fishmeals, some seed and a milk protien. What the hell held it together?
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| | | Frenzy | | Posts: 11403 | | | [ MODERATOR ] | |
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#27 19 Jun 2022 at 8.22pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #26
Ive not rolled any bait in years, but when i did, it was brilliant, simple compared to modern day standards no doubt
white fish meal
Capelin Meal
Sardine meal
Cypry seed
Rennet cassien
Salmon oil
5mil peach melba
2 mil sweet cajouser
think that was it
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#26 19 Jun 2022 at 5.47pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #24
20% lt94
15 salmon meal
10 predigest for attraction solubility
5 wpc
25 clo
10 milk
7.5 semolina
7.5 soya
Flavour
Essential oil
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#25 19 Jun 2022 at 5.41pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #24
That mix has caught many thousands of carp over the years. I have heard it called the 4 parts mix…or 5 parts if soya flour added!
Bit of fish oil, flavor if you feel the need and bang. Roll up in bulk, bait where the fish are and you will catch.
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#24 19 Jun 2022 at 2.50pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #17
Great Base Mix. Will catch fish wherever taken. Even if using with higher grade milk protein, the mix works out cost effective.
Can also adapt this mix easily with desired extracts.
Great suggestion. Sometimes less is more!
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#23 19 Jun 2022 at 2.31pm | | | |
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As we discussed in messages you shouldn’t really have any problems with the mix.
Basic mixes are fine for those that like an easy life but there are some exceptional mixes out there that by their very nature are more complex.
Even the four ingredient one listed has CLO - in itself a blend and this tge ingredient count rises.
Just make sure what you choose to add serves function and adds rather than subtracts from a bait.
Good on you for keeping with the caseins, a lot of bait makers have substituted it due to customers unwilling to pay the price increase, home rolling I guess you see more where the money goes !
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#22 19 Jun 2022 at 11.25am | | | |
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In reply to Post #17
Nowt wrong with that👍
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#21 18 Jun 2022 at 3.09pm | | | |
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In reply to Post #20
The first mix with all the ingredients, or the revised one, Gav?
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#20 18 Jun 2022 at 2.39pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #19
I’m gonna go against the grain here
You have a nice mix there, not far off a recipe I have had for a long time. Some of the levels are different and the polenta is not needed.
Don’t drop the casein 😉
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#19 18 Jun 2022 at 11.06am | | | |
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In reply to Post #11
I need a firm bait for a throwing stick and also the silvers are whittling down baits at the moment. I believe i can lower it to 50g as prehaps the mix is too firm on a new test mix drying this morning.
Must admit I'm hesistant excluding the Acid Casein, as i did well on a 10% inculsion in previous premade base mixes rolled back in the 90's.
I appreciate the helpfull advice gents.
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#18 18 Jun 2022 at 10.45am | | | |
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In reply to Post #17
Great mix the fish base.
From experience some CLO's roll better than others, or may need grinding down.
All trial and error.
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#17 18 Jun 2022 at 10.01am | | 3 | |
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In reply to Post #16
Or just go for a cheaper Fish Base Mix copy
50% LT94
25% CLO
12.5% SEMO
12.5% LAMLAC
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#16 18 Jun 2022 at 9.31am | | | |
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In reply to Post #15
Take a look at the carp forum recipe and just add a small tweak. Most modern home roller fishmeal recipes are very similar. The carp forum recipe simplifies this down further and is proven. I used it last year and had fish to upper 30s.
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#15 18 Jun 2022 at 9.08am | | | |
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In reply to Post #14
Thanks
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#14 18 Jun 2022 at 8.55am | | | |
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In reply to Post #13
Whey protein concentrate.
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#13 18 Jun 2022 at 8.48am | | | |
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In reply to Post #12
What's wpc, thanks
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#12 18 Jun 2022 at 8.44am | | | |
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I knew someone who worked at a very well established bait company with a good reputation.
One of the mixes that had been on the go for many years with great success was:
LT 94
Semo
Milk powder
Bread crumb
A spice
WPC
Flavour.
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#11 18 Jun 2022 at 8.11am | | | |
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In reply to Post #6
Looks good. What does the polenta bring to it?
Keep it simple from there - a liquid food and flavour.
It will definitely catch you fish.
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#10 18 Jun 2022 at 8.09am | | | |
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In reply to Post #9
There are two versions - hookbaits only and one that is suitable for feedbaits
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In reply to Post #6
I wasn't sure what kingfisher red was, so I checked. It states that it is to be used in hookbaits only.
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In reply to Post #7
Sorry to gate crash, but when formulating a bait I always thought an essential oil is a good additive
another form of attraction , I guess what I'm saying is why wouldn't you add one, thanks
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#7 18 Jun 2022 at 6.27am | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #6
I would up the kelp till 50, loose the kingfisher red and add 20 fenugreek or union powder.
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Solid advice gents, my sincere thanks.
Having just watched John Baker's latest youtube video this evening, John, mentions the same trap i fallen into!
My revised base mix recipe to test mix over the weekend.
300g Norse LT94 Fishmeal
150g CLO Birdfood
150g Semolina
100g CPSP 90 PDF
100g Polenta
70g Soya Flour
50g Kingfisher Red
50g WPC80
20g Kelp powder
10g Betaine
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#5 17 Jun 2022 at 11.37pm | | 1 | |
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Do a search on here for : Pete b recipe.
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#4 17 Jun 2022 at 11.26pm | | 1 | |
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In reply to Post #1
Less is more.
Stick to the LT94 and Pre digested fishmeal, drop the krill, liver and spirulina.
Easier to keep tabs on best inclusion levels, freshness and storage, the less ingredients you have in a mix.
Also learn to get the best out of each ingredient.
Simple, Good quality bait nowadays is not cheap, but it doesn’t have to be complicated either.
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#3 17 Jun 2022 at 7.16pm | | 1 | |
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I'd say go back to basics and ask yourself what each ingredient is adding to the mix. Some may be doing the same job. What is the overall protein content. Oil content. Carb content. Im sure you could exclude some ingredients and increase others on this basis.
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#2 17 Jun 2022 at 7.12pm | | 2 | |
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I am no expert but far too many ingredients IMO.
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Hi all,
Been tinkering around this evening and have come up with this recipe. Seems to roll and firm ok, but buoyancy seems a tad on the lighter side for my liking, which has been a long running saga this week on test mixes!
Have omitted a vitamin and mineral supplement as I've ran out of Vionate for now.
240g Norse LT94 Fishmeal
100g CLO Birdfood
100g Semolina
80g CPSP90 PDF Fishmeal
80g Polenta
50g Acid Casein 90 Mesh
50g Whey Protein Concentrate WPC80
50g Hydrolysed Liver powder
50g Krill meal
50g Kingfisher Red
50g Haiths Red Factor Birdfood
50g FFHT Soya flour
20g Kelp powder
10g Betaine Anhydrous
30ml Mae Krua Oyster Extract
5ml Glucose syrup
3ml John Baker Ala Salar flavour
1ml John Baker Plum or Peach Flavour
Additives per 6 large eggs.
Would value the forums opinion on the recipe, and where i could improve the mix especially in terms of digestion and attraction properties please. Have I thrown too many things into the bowl and come up with a expensive mess!
Thanks
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