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Lead arrangement on d rig
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cornish-carper

Posts: 851

#52 9 Jun 2022 at 5.49am

In reply to Post #51
Indication isn’t brilliant with a lead clip is it unless your discharging the lead on the take?

mark1009

Posts: 4231

#51 9 Jun 2022 at 0.30am

In reply to Post #50
I'd agree a running rig is the ideal way to go. However in deep silt or weed not a goer really. I don't use heli rigs unless absolutely essential. Have had fish kite without indication. I generally believe unless you fish a very tight line the bite indication is less than ideal. I'd rather use a lead clip with a suitable rig for the substrate. Up against an island I'd use a running rig if possible
Otherwise you need a heavy lead and a tight line to fish for dropbacks. Makes line lay far from ideal.

noj

Posts: 11459

Social photographer...

#50 8 Jun 2022 at 11.44pm

In reply to Post #44
I agree with you Nick. I’m never entirely happy with the indication on any semi fixed set up, really only ever comfortable with a running lead.. but you don’t half go round the houses to make your points, which is where you lose some people because in reality your points are always valid and based on real fishing experience.
Sorry, but it did tickle me seeing the copy and pastes thinking back to a debate you were involved in about nuts as bait and when somebody mentioned Brazils, Brinxy copy and pasted about 2 pages on the life and career of Alan Brazil (the footballer)

Frenzy

Posts: 11403

[ MODERATOR ]

#49 8 Jun 2022 at 8.50pm

In reply to Post #48
more they way about one goes about it

and nicely edited

carpe_diem

Posts: 1921

#48 8 Jun 2022 at 7.55pm

In reply to Post #47
Fair enough , he ain’t worth a ban

It was only a question though

Frenzy

Posts: 11403

[ MODERATOR ]

#47 8 Jun 2022 at 7.52pm

In reply to Post #45
Thats the last insult you will make before i ban you

The-Heff

Posts: 3251

#46 8 Jun 2022 at 7.32pm

In reply to Post #1
Can these lot not be banned, always the same people bickering. Youre all correct, everyone else is wrong. Now please stop boring us all.

In answer to the ops question. You are not going to get more bites due to angles approached. As its still a stiff rig and will still have similar pivot points. What a helicopter will help with though, is presentation. If the inline buries into the lake bead, the hooklink could be left pointing in a more upwards way and may stand out to the fish. With the hei opter this is a lot less likely to happen as in theory, the rig shoulds always lay flat on top of the lakebed as there is no weight attached to drag it in it anywhere. Obviously all in theory as the rig can land on all sorts.

If your confident that what you are fishing on is perfectly clear and hard the inline all the way, anything you arent sure of, or you know is a bit dirty, helicopter wins the day

carpe_diem

Posts: 1921

#45 8 Jun 2022 at 5.18pm

In reply to Post #44

NickGordon

Posts: 3121

#44 8 Jun 2022 at 9.25am

In reply to Post #42

In all the years I’ve used them I’ve experienced the lack of indication/kiting scenario once. Literally once. And I still got adequate indication to know I’d hooked one and landed the fish just fine..

Sorry, I simply don't believe that. Please note, not because you are lying, but because you can't see every pick-up, dropped bait out in the water. I've watched fish eject baits and hooks in clear water up to 15 metres or so, any further than that or cloudy water you might not see it.
I've seen the kiting and lack of indication a few times, and it's not always blatantly apparent; if there is a fair breeze and you retrieve after a fish has made it say to a patch of weed in the arc, you might not know about it.

Some current anglers have written about lack of indication from helicopter set-ups on waters, I can remember an article on Wraysbury, with pictures describing the scenario above, sorry, I can not remember who wrote it.

Lewis Read has however written articles saying that anglers should be able to accept that at times they will need to swap lead arrangements.
Also I would say that ninety per cent of the time I will use a helicopter rig on leadcore, or a Chod arrangement, which also incorporates the helicopter style arrangement. This is my go-to lead set-up and I’ll use it whenever I can When a named angler says that, it isn't considering the issues, (his non helicopter set up is when fishing the margins or weedy waters), not all of them understand or know the issues. Terry Hearn has mentioned the issues in articles.

My broken knot, a combi-rig, black Amnesia to Merlin. I'd just landed a fish, without thinking I cast it straight back. Next take minutes later I lost a fish, however, I had also landed a pike on the rig and checked it after, and didn't see any damage. It broke at the knot.

That last lost fish was at Brackens Pool, Nazeing, now I haven't fished Brackens since 2013 I think. Lesson learnt, since then I check every rig, knot etc, and test tackle before I even fish with it.

Basically, from every lost fish, I try to take care to avoid that happening again. I learn from it, I eliminate that item, that set-up, that rig, that situation from my fishing.

A classic example was fishing Ants on Brackens. I lost a couple of fish that made it to the snags to the left of the swim. Snags that if I had been able to tire the fish out in front in clear water they would have avoided. I was bringing fish towards them during the fight.
However they were still lively and went in there.
I was able to fish the same spot from another swim, and by hitting takes quickly from the other swim prevented them arcing in, and landed every fish that I got indication from for the rest of the session, a number of big 20's including one of the 'wanted list', the two tone scaley mirror.

At Alton Water, I did have a couple of lost fish, both to hooklink breakages, and both on helicopter set-ups. The bottom of the reservoir is littered with the remains of the old village. At times whole bricks, roofing tiles, metal guttering, even the old road culvert cause problems.
I found moving away from the slower indication of the helicopter lead in these swims, casting a bolt rig, (or running lead on a tight line), enabled me to land fish from a particular swim or two with no more problems.

yonny

Posts: 7641

#43 8 Jun 2022 at 7.23am

hyperloop

Posts: 2789

#42 7 Jun 2022 at 11.25pm

In reply to Post #11
Don’t hate to point it out mate, just don’t make out like it’s gospel when it clearly isn’t.

I’ve also watched plenty of fish in the edge and helicopters have worked just fine. I’d prefer an inline for that sort of fishing but the versatility of a helicopter rules the roost for anything out in the lake. The tiny difference it may make in hookups I believe is more than negated by the amount of times it will present better than anything else, leading to more opportunities in the long run.

I’ve watched fish do me over and over again on 5oz inlines… sometimes it just happens, but I’m not going to go and claim that inlines are crap.

In all the years I’ve used them I’ve experienced the lack of indication/kiting scenario once. Literally once. And I still got adequate indication to know I’d hooked one and landed the fish just fine..

Paisley may have written that how ever many years ago. If we’re referring to writing as evidence, how about the hundreds of articles from anglers at the top of their game, the likes of Terry Hearn, Oz Holness, Nige Sharp etc etc. that use helicopters for the majority of their angling. I really don’t think they would be using them if they caused the issues you suggest.

I find it all a bit confusing. You test everything, from dozens of mono’s to every lead setup possible, have had 0 hookpulls since time began, but then admit to losing fish due to knots failing which is the most basic mistake imaginable

.

I haven’t had a knot go whilst carping since I was fishing commercials as a school kid…

Cam

Posts: 6375

[ MODERATOR ]

#41 7 Jun 2022 at 9.05am

In reply to Post #38
I have some of the Ring Leads, Taylors Lead Lounge,

All my Leads come from Taylors

mark1009

Posts: 4231

#40 6 Jun 2022 at 6.06pm

In reply to Post #39
I think the Nash design is so that the lead will discharge when conditions dictate it necessary. Will not discharge when a carp shakes its head. You have to use what suits your needs.

Hitman

Posts: 8857

#39 6 Jun 2022 at 6.01pm

In reply to Post #29
The ones I found to be better was the solar ones as they had a almost flat curve to them and the worst being nash as they looked almost completely closed and had a little bobbly bit that the swivel clipped over

NickGordon

Posts: 3121

#38 6 Jun 2022 at 4.37pm

In reply to Post #32

Not what I was thinking about I’m talking with and without swivel which one is more efficient at dropping the lead?

Sorry, my mistake.

With no swivel!
The swivel actually gave the 'lift' extra movement so the lead would stay on a fraction longer

Was cutting the swivels off for as long as I can remember whilst using lead clips due to movement, never had any problems with it.
Now though I use Ring Leads, thinner gauge than the brass loop with minimal movement. I feel I get the best of both worlds now.

I have some of the Ring Leads, Taylors Lead Lounge, ebay specials.
They do go on my run rings quick links, or on the occasions I have to go to helicopter setups, but found they can be a bit fiddly at times.

In reply to Post #33
I cut the swivels off and replace with a small split ring. It discharges off the lead clip with no issues and has the added benefit of being able to straighten out and discharge the lead if you ever have to pull for a break (if the lead is trapped).
Phil,
If you want Leads with a small ring, try the company I mentioned above:

Taylors lead lounge leads


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