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In reply to Post #63
he refers to potassium sorbate, glycerine and MPG but I've had no luck finding the papers he quoted.
This is the head of faculty for aquatic ecology, whom dave says is informed on the subject...
gerhard.herndl@univie.ac.at
if you want to explore it maybe worth an email
Sorry I can't assist further...
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In reply to Post #1
Buy with confidence baitworks shelf lifes are very good 👍 I've now converted over to these full time.
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In reply to Post #62
I'm pretty sure that Dave talks about Potassium Sorbate being bad for carp in the Korda poddy but happy to be corrected on that
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In reply to Post #61
I can't find the papers Dave refers to, I have requested a peer look into his archives for me as I'm not familier with the exact studies he mentions.
As for it not being the case....it is. I talked regularly back then with a few contacts in the factory and we used to use the same suppliers for some items.
the shelf life baits that came just before it, where preserved using the same methods, last pack of scopex squid I saw, as key is discontinued, listed the e nunmbers 202 and 1520 ( pot sorb and monopropylene glycol )
there was zilch revolutionary in the way nahs preserved their baits, although they did lie about it once saying the only difference was a two day air dry, then later added "only human grade preservatives: were also included lol .
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In reply to Post #51
That is definitely not the case. I had two different baits from Nash, both in shelflife and stabilised and was asked to see how they compared in a fishing situation. Same base mixes, different preservation used.
I think I'm in saying that the 'stabilsed' thing was the result of finding a way to preserve The Key, whilst maintaining its effectiveness. Where Nash are concerned shelflife and stabilised are not exactly the same thing/method.
As mentioned by Bluebeat I'd be really interested to know what ingredients Dave Moore was referring to? I know that back in the 90's we were told that potassium sorbate wasn't good for the carps digestive system. No idea if that's right or wrong?
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In reply to Post #34
I was wondering exactly the same.
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In reply to Post #57
Nicely explained Mozzi 
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Stabilised and shelf life to me is the same thing. They have also got far better, when I rolled bait I’d use the exact same basemix. But just use a small amount of sorbate. These were also air dried for around 6-8 hours longer. They’d happily keep for 12-16 weeks. and broke down around 4-8 hours longer than the freezer version.
24 hours and a coot wouldn’t pick one up whole.
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In reply to Post #56
Im sorry but what most people think of shelf lifes is the "version of the bait that doesn't need freezing".
Stabilised are shelf life. thats it.
When referring to the old shelf lifes of different recipes this was in a past tense. its just not done anymore. there is SO many ways to preserve normal bait its actually easier to do that.
no company is going to make a different base mix ( more labour work ) when you can just incorporate preservatives into what you have.
MPG, potassium sorbate, glycerine, salt, egg powder, all effect the length of time it takes for things to degrade. it is using a combination of some of the aforementioned that in the correct set of circumstances prolongs the bait to have a usable life.
a lot of bait nowadays is the same as freezer except instead of fresh egg its egg powder, reconstituted partly with water partly with MPG.
Potassium sorbate is a more reliable method in my experience, it also means more of your wet mix can be "re devoted" to hydrolysates and other liquid additives, and still use real eggs ( I only use free range and the powder is far more expensive that the fresh egg ).
Speaking to some of the factory lads, and bait makers in general, people are using a LOT of preservative in these stabilised, far more than necessary. ( although, still a small amount as a component to the mix ), and a few of them certainly wouldn't be slung in the premium category in the first place lol.
So just to finish, regardless of what things should or shouldn't be, stabilised has replaced the word shelf life as opposed to having a separate definition. what you're referring to was always called "semi preserved" back in the day and was basically 10% MPG and 10% vegetable glycerine in the liquid mix to eek baits out for a few days longer ( up to a month ).
As i alluded the term came out firstly in bait circles from Nash when they made the normal base mix shelf life.
Its splitting hairs really but I don't like the thought of people thinking they're invariably receiving something of higher quality just because it says shelf life, and that shelf life means it's a different mix.
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In reply to Post #55
No, you aren’t reading it properly.
Stabilised should just mean it won’t go off as quickly - think of it like bags of salads, they are pretty “stable” until the bag is opened, but then go off.
What most people think of as shelf life’s can pretty much last forever.
Decent bait companies “shelf life’s” are the same bait with as little preservative as they can get away with - stabilised
A lot of other shelf life’s are (as you say) a completely different bait to the freezer version, just the same smell. And don’t break down.
Semantics, etc
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In reply to Post #53
You’ve virtually mimicked the post I made.
You can differentiate between generations of preserved baits but they are preserved. Stabilised, preserved, shelf life, all mean the same thing.
Of course the ham is preserved, that’s why it’s stabilised.,
You preserve something by stabilising it to give it a shelf life 😂
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In reply to Post #51
That’s not always the case though - some companies shelf life’s are the same flavours, but a completely different base mix to the “stabilised” baits. As per the example you gave. A shelf life that is a soya/semo/icing sugar/bit of bird food plus glycerine and sorbate is a different beast to a “proper” bait that has been “stabilised” with glycerine and sorbate (if that’s what they used)
Some companies freezer baits have loads of preservatives in them, which make them much slower to break down, even in water
“Stabilised” baits tend to stay fresh if there is a lack of heat and moisture, the minute water is introduced they act almost as if an un-stabilised, fresh bait.
Air drying is a form of stabilising/preservation. Parma ham is stabilised, or as everyone in the general public would call it preserved. But it’s only preserved in a specific atmosphere.
You can’t say that stabilised and shelf life is exactly the same……..
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In reply to Post #51
There was a thread on here a good couple of years ago that I remember , and someone from within the bait world said that shelf life were baits with potassium sorbate i( or whatever else is used)ncorporated into them to make the baits last whereas stabilized were dipped into glycerine and sugar or something like that iirc, which basically washed off when immersed and therefore stops the preservation. Is that not true then?
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In reply to Post #50
Stabilised and shelf life are exactly the same. No matter how well you preserve something you’re preserving it to a specific set of circumstances and once those change so does the product, massively in terms of when water is introduced. Even the absolute dogs body of baits will go off as lakes and rivers are filled with life that just attacks it.
You somewhat prevent immediately breakdown with things like hardeners and fairly inert ingredients - hence hookbaits can last a few days on the hair - but fundamentally the fresh food ingredients are decomposing. Hence a pop up left on a glass of water for a couple of weeks will smell mankey.
Stabilised was just a new sell word from nash when they switched to preserving the baits as everyone else did ( prior to this they where different baits entirely with only the eliquid attractors remaining ) the original scopex squid shelflife baits where bright orange for example and the bait brown.
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Bait