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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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22 years. He’ll be in PC but he will get got somehow I reckon, if there’s one thing they all have in there, it’s time
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The majority of police do a fantastic job on America, I don’t think he intended to kill the guy very unfortunate.
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In reply to Post #160
So true 
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In reply to Post #159
I'm sure if you hang around long enough there will be another trial coming soon 
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In reply to Post #158
Glad to see this thread remained live throughout the trial and the right verdict was provided. Really can't see any grounds for an appeal but no doubt they will come up with something.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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So is that odd little Asian looking thing going to be charged as an accessory to murder?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 |  | |
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In reply to Post #150
He was found guilty because he is. Simple
Plenty of publicity about how George was on drugs/ having heart issues / sold his gran for crack or whatever that nobody's worried about swaying a jury eh?
Hopefully it's a start in terms of actual reform and change.
And hopefully the appeal is dismissed as quickly as they reached the verdict
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In reply to Post #154
Sounds painful that 
I would have thought cuffing behind the back and a spit hood is sufficient for anybody
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #153
They need a bollock clamp. Doesn’t matter how big, strong, intoxicated or adrenaline filled you are; you will stop in your tracks with a compressed conker
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It was wrong 
In future they should just shoot ****s like that in the leg or summat
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In reply to Post #150
So the cameras made up the 9 and half minutes of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck? Either that or Floyd was attacking Chauvin's knee with his neck. 
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In reply to Post #150
I think the video of him kneeling on the bloke until he died
Was the most damning. The social outcry for justice was more a sideshow.
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Found guilty........Hardly surprising considering its worldwide publicity that COULD have influenced the jurys decision massively.......Appeal being drawn up as we speak.......
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #148
Somebody will find him. Nobody is going anywhere and nobody forgets in jail
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In reply to Post #147
No chance. He will be protected.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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His white arse is going to get passed round the showers like a peace pipe.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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yep - guilty of all charges
my understanding is that the other officers involved can now be charged with related charges in subsequent individual cases
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Guilty on all 3 charges
and remanded into custody
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They have reached a verdict in just 10 hours
So I'm guessing that a murder conviction. It had to be unanimous and there's no way it was like 10 or 11 not guilty and stragglers had to be convinced.
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In reply to Post #142
Doesn't take long for tits like TC to remove/edit posts. Their world is shrinking 
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #141
. Back at you 
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #139
Lol don’t make me laugh
The murder and robbery statistics will be mainly outside of the affluent areas where people of every colour live. The poor communities (their environment) where it takes place often have high percentages of black people and very little in the way of prospects.
It’s the same in poor areas here except we have gun laws worth the paper they are written on, free healthcare and a better welfare system
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In reply to Post #138
>That’s the result of the environment they are given to survive in
Seems to me that you're stigmatising poor black people, seems pretty racist to me. You know there's wealthy black people, right? The way I perceive that is that black people are living a hand to mouth existence, seriously, what gives with the racism?
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #130
It’s obvious
And in those US crime figures you posted, yes, black people were responsible for a greater number of murders, robberies and illegal gambling. That’s the result of the environment they are given to survive in.
Why not stop all the people in the rape, assault, theft of property, fraud, offences against your own family (!?) and drugs categories?
They are also arrest statistics, not convictions. And we all know you can be arrested in the US for basically being brown. Then morons lap up the ‘facts’ and the cycle of hate and division continues.
Wonder why we demonise black violence but romanticise the likes of the mafia, the Krays and even Bruce Lee?
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In reply to Post #133
All of that aside: I do think that things should have been handled differently;
It's a start I guess.
Jesus.
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In reply to Post #114
Possibly,, but you would not expect them both to reassemble a gun handle either
Rock, paper, scissors in the dark, could have been her dildo, saying that, she probably put the battery’s in the wrong way round
In the headlights, shocked, and people can do pretty crazy things 
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In reply to Post #134
I think that had he not been in that shop with that money, if he had overdosed as I'm suggesting, he was in the company of others and most likely have been taken to the hospital if he had got into difficulties. Coming across the cops was - so the evidence implies - was a contributing factor in his death unfortunately.
Was Chauvin responsible for Floyd's death? Could be in-part, was it on purpose? From the footage I've seen, I don't think so.
Whatever verdict is made, either way, America is going to burn, it's already started unfortunately with this latest shooting and is only going to get ramped up by agitators and so called activists, I also think similar will happen worldwide; a s-hitstorm is coming.
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Very interesting thread. I really hope it doesn’t get shut down as I believe we need to have these conversations and express ourselves and believes freely (with respect of course).
GF - I suppose really what it boils down to is whether he would have died if he hadn’t seen the police that day.........
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In reply to Post #132
>The 'threat' of the nearby crowd for example
I can't remember.the exact words that the MMA guy used, something like 'id slap you bitch cop mother f..ker' or words to that effect, added to that the other hostile people in the crowd, apparently the cops are taught to act in a certain way if they perceive a threat.
Now, put yourself in the shoes of the cops, how would you react, how do you think things could go down in an area by all accounts that is very shady?
All of that aside: I do think that things should have been handled differently; so easy to say in hindsight and you are not the person involved in all of this. I think Floyd should have been cuffed in the car, taken to the police station and dealt with there. From what I gather and have seen spoken of by active US cops, someone showing signs of excited delirium [some say this is bulls-hit and not acknowledged by WHO etc] that the restraint method used was and is normal police tactics. Either way, the tactics used put both the suspect and the cop using this sort of method in a very dicey situation.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #131
Your interest lays in the facts until the person in the know states something you don't agree with and then you say he's lying his arse off....
There's an undercurrent to this thread that suggests some people care more about 'proving' it wasn't race related than focusing on the 'fact' that a man died whilst under the knee of a police officer. All the while saying the colour of a mans skin is irrelevant.
Chauvin isn't on trial for racism. So let's maybe cut the white victimhood b.s.
As fishie rightly said earlier. Only Chauvin really knows if he acted differently because Floyd was black. And he's hardly likely to admit to it is he?
The defence witness made some points that were pretty easily dismissed by some basic questioning from the prosecution.
The 'threat' of the nearby crowd for example.
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Just so we're clear on this point: I couldn't care less what colour of skin the people in this trial are, that's not my interest. My interest lays in what the facts are, and then what the jury decides.
The racism component of this trial has been highly manipulated from what I can make out. Whether or not the cop was racist and killed Floyd because of the colour of his skin remains to be seen, i can't say one way or another in that regard; maybe he is, maybe he is isn't, maybe we'll find out in due course.
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In reply to Post #129
Seriously, how dare you say I hate black people. I suggest.you stop making accusations.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #128
The copper was restraining a corpse for over 2 1/2 minutes- ->facts
You hate black people, we get it. But you’re defending the indefensible in your allegiance to the aryan race
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In reply to Post #127
Overdosed very recently prior to this interaction with cops and was taken to hospital because of overdose. No conspiracy, no Twitter whatever--> facts.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #122
He didn’t OD and if you believe these conspiracy theorist, **** stirring, fame hungry little *****s who manipulate facts and people on YouTube and Twitter over your own eyes you need to pull yourself together
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #124
Sounds like you're speculating
Unlike the guy who does know the exact details of correct police procedure in Minneapolis- who is 'apparently ' lying his arse off....
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In reply to Post #119
So facts are racism now? Kys why do people do this? So attempting to reason why cops would behave in a certain way given the evidence, just, just no.
So let's put things into a different scenario: say cops in the US were looking for drunk drivers, the evidence on previous convictions shows that young people in their 20's are 80% [of 100%] to be caught driving under the influence of alcohol, whereas 20% of [100%] are over 50's are caught driving under the influence, who do you think the cops are more likely to be on the lookout for? I have no idea of their methodology, just looking to see reason as to why. Just for you... https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2017/12/07/police-officer-said-black-people-commit-crime-wasnt-racist-7140683/amp/
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43
Have fun with the stats.
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In reply to Post #121
Not from the police procedure that I've seen. I think the guy is lying his arse off.
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In reply to Post #120
Were not talking about the UK or anywhere else as true as what you're saying is
I'll say this again: Unless you know the exact details of the Minneapolis police procedure for dealing with crims, best not to speculate.
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In reply to Post #118
>In cctv footage he looks alive enough to have gone to buy cigarettes, then when in the custody of a handful of police officers he is dead
He looked wired in the shop; acting very strangely. Woman who was in the car with him said he had fallen asleep in the car before cops arrived...weird. jittery/sleepy within minutes. See below.
>It doesn’t matter if somebody is on drugs, they shouldn’t be dying in police custody. Serve and protect, not smother and kill
How can police be held accountable for an overdose victim --> 4x the overdose levels needed to kill a man
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #108
The person who does know that - i.e. The chief of police for Minnesota - has gone on record during the trial stating that Chauvin did not act in accordance with either training or department policy.
No 'apparent' about his statement.
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In reply to Post #108
Positional Asphyxia taught in all UK police forces/services. Why do I need to know about there procedures as it’s positional asphyxia anywhere in the world! 👍🏻
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #117
In cctv footage he looks alive enough to have gone to buy cigarettes, then when in the custody of a handful of police officers he is dead.
It doesn’t matter if somebody is on drugs, they shouldn’t be dying in police custody. Serve and protect, not smother and kill.
GF was obviously a degenerate but the rights that keep all of us safe protect the pond life too and even if he did deserve the death penalty (for fake currency lol) he would’ve had his day in court
I’m all for executing 40-50% of the global population because they are generally ****s, but if that were a reality there would be nobody left because we are all a **** to somebody. As I’ve said many a time civilised society is basically the tolerance of ****s
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In reply to Post #112
Floyd has the skin rolled back from his neck to his buttocks I his autopsy, there was no brushing under the skin which suggests to me that the force used didn't lead to his death.
>Did he take **** loads of fentanyl and compromise his own heart somehow momentarily?
Proves the point doesn't it? Crowder: don't take drugs = live, Floyd: take drugs to such a level that is 4 X that of overdose levels = dies.
When I first saw the footage, I reacted just like everyone else did, the cop looked like he'd killed Floyd, since seeing different angles, the half hour of the interaction with Floyd, finding out about the drugs, the overdose he'd had only a month or so previously, drugs in the back of the cop car with Floyd's saliva on them, the way he kept saying "I can't breathe" even before he was on the ground, his erratic behaviour, I've come to an entirely different reasoned conclusion.
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In reply to Post #110
Heavy handed policing towards black people in the USA
the 2017 FBI crime statistics brings up some very interesting data sets, one of them being the murder rate
Black's: 53.1% murder rate of which they're 13% of the population
White: 44.2% murder rate of which they're 62% of the population
Seeing as the murder rate is so high in the black community, considering their low percentage rate, would it not seem reasonable that the police would focus more on this particular group? That might seem on the outside if you're black that cops are always pulling blacks over more than whites do = racism, inwardly, blacks are committing murders higher than white people and again are significantly less [13%] in the population distribution.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #114
And if you’re lucky enough to have both they are probably holstered on different sides. Left and right can be a bit tricky sometimes I admit
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In reply to Post #101
Seeing they are 2 different types of weapon you would think at least the safety lock would be different?
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In reply to Post #109
>Do you think what the officer did was right?
Under the circumstances, from what I gather they thought he was on something - which he was, he needed to be subdued. Did the knee kill him? No, no I don't think it did, he overdosed + heart problems.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #107
What a convenient place to have died from an overdose.. under a white copper’s knee. Talk about good timing!
It’s a shame that moron recreating it didn’t die, talk about tasteless. I haven’t and won’t watch any of that tripe to comment but the circumstances of why he didn’t die are the ones you’ve listed. Did he take **** loads of fentanyl and compromise his own heart somehow momentarily?
The copper knew full well what he was doing, he compresses the life out of GF
It doesn’t matter if he’s a drug addict porn actor who threatened somebody with a gun, he was a free man. arrest him safely for the fake note and let the court be his judge, not a knee on the neck/back/shoulder in the gutter being filmed dying
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In reply to Post #108
I dont think kneeling on someone's neck for a prolonged period of time is any police forces procedure.Do you think what the officer did was right?
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In reply to Post #104
Unless you know the exact details of the Minneapolis police procedure for dealing with crims, best not to speculate, eh?
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In reply to Post #102
Because he had 11mg [mg could be wrong weight] per ml of Fentanyl + meth amphetamine in his blood + Covid + a dodgy heart. The good doctor in court said that people have died of 0.3mg of Fentanyl in their blood, I'll add: the 0.3mg doesn't take into account what other contributing factors like age, sex, weight, height that lead to others dying of much lower than Floyd's 11mg.
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In reply to Post #103
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In reply to Post #100
If true, how comes Crowder didn't die?
He wasn't strangled.
Crowder isn't the biggest threat in the US, the mainstream media who have been fanning the flames of muh racism are the biggest threat. Like their total misrepresentation of the known facts of this case, totally ignore the drugs etc, previous convictions for pushing a gun into pregnant womens belly, porn star, instead they painted him as a pillar of the community and upstanding member of society when the truth of it is he was anything but that.
The subsequent riots that ensued and the media coverage was laughable at best and sinister at worse, like clearly burning down buildings in the background of live broadcasts from the likes of CNN caused by rioters and looters, with talking heads saying stuff like "mostly peaceful protests".
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In reply to Post #102
Positional Asphyxia.
You don't leave a suspect in a prone face down position once secured, they are rolled on their side to allow free flow of air to lungs. The position he was in on his side should have negated that problem, but pushed up against the car wheel with his chest compressed against the wheel i would say is the same as leaving him face down.
Heart disease and drugs he was a ticking time bomb and the stress brought on of another arrest didn't help the situation!
Defence has started with an expert the position he was in was not use of lethal force!
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In reply to Post #101
Tazer and Gun in this country look familiar hence why the Tazer is bright yellow!
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In reply to Post #99
What's your belief that the drugs/heart problem lead to his death based on? The doctor that tried to save him, and the chief medical examiner that performed the autopsy both claim asphyxia/suffocation is what did it and that the heat disease/drugs were not direct causes. That's tricky to argue with imo.
I read that the cop kept his knee on the guys neck for a further 2 mins 44 secs after they found he had no pulse. I fail to see how anyone could suggest he's not guilty on that basis.
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I see somebody else has been shot, thought they had pulled a taser, instead a gun
Must have a similar type of feel or handle???
Riots ahoy!
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #99
Even if a knee ‘appeared’ to be on his neck but was actually on his back it’s still completely possible that in the struggle, and with the weight of a grown man bearing down on him, each deflation of his lungs will have suffocated him slowly like a constrictor kills it’s prey.
I fail to understand how people can literally watch a video of the life draining from a person being strangled and dismiss it as wrong place wrong time.
I suppose if people can sit through videos by this piece of **** and take it seriously anything is possible.
Who do we think posed the biggest danger to the US. A crack head with a fake note or this crowder ***** and his promotion of hate and division?
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In reply to Post #96
The police officer who what appears to have a knee on the neck, is in my opinion, not guilty.
I'm of the firm belief that the drugs he was on, plus his heart problem lead to his death. It was an overdose of the combination of drugs he was on + bad ticker. Even before the cop had his knee on the bloke, Floyd was complaining in and out of the cop car that he couldn't breathe, he had Covid at the time I believe.
I think because of the volatile situation in the US right now, the cop will be found guilty irrespective of the evidence, I can't see any other outcome unfortunately.
Steven Crowder had one of his crew members kneel on his neck for the time Floyd was knelt on plus a few more seconds broadcast live. Crowder didn't die after recreating what happened with the cop and Floyd.
I think what happened is just a very bad set of circumstances; everyone involved was at the wrong place at the right time.
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In reply to Post #93
It’s a horse. After all this is the 21st century
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In reply to Post #96
Murder, manslaughter or misadventure guilty of something but which?
Have You already made up your mind about the cause but what about drugs? Prosecution have started their case with experts the defence will now put their side with experts throwing doubt on the previous experts!
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In reply to Post #94
What other side of the argument? There isnt one. Dude died because of lethal compression to the neck. Well after being subdued.
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https://youtu.be/Dvd6OO_YnXY
All is not as it seems.
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In reply to Post #93
Still only heard one side of the argument.
As with all court cases you start with prosecution and by the end of their case it is bang to rights but once the defence starts it all changes.
They will produce experts to counter this expert witness and so it goes on and on.
He's odds on for a guilty verdict but will have leave to appeal. Life will roll on a new incident or atrocity will surface and in 5 years he will quietly be released or cleared and no one will care as life resumes some normality after CV and peoples priorities and focus change.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #92
Yeah you're right of course.
So - a new witness statement today from medical experts
'Forensic pathologist Dr Lindsey Thomas said "the activities of the law enforcement officers resulted in Mr Floyd's death" from lack of oxygen.'
if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, chances are....
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In reply to Post #90
You wouldn't expect him to say anything else mate, like I pointed out earlier to Heff regards fairness, he was fired immediately by his superiors.
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In reply to Post #90
Very impressed by his performance in court.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #89
Latest statement I've read is from the Minneapolis Police Chief who has said that Chauvin violated policy and was not acting in line with training.
I guess if anyone should know, then he should.
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In reply to Post #88
Not sure at the moment what is going on (still trying to catch up on this mornings coverage), but seems like the defence will be trying to get a mistrial, probably their best and only hope.
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Happened in America not our problem all this is going to do is keep the race baiters happy !! It’ll kick off in the states & migrate over here just like it did last summer leading to a bunch of middle class white kids acting like a bunch of halfwits & the old Bill showing themselves up again 🤷♂️
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In reply to Post #81
Spot on Heff.......end of the day he ****ed about when being put in the car and was resisting! Now I’m sure people who live in America know how trigger happy police are so why would you risk it immaterial of your skin colour!!!
From everything I have seen and heard, racism is simply not evident one bit!
Chauvin will be round guilty for man slaughter or not guilty.......either way it won’t be good enough for lefties and the BLM cult.......
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In reply to Post #85
No offence taken
I'm amazed you have a pretty agricultural argument that this officer won't get a fair trial, because people have made their mind up, without offering an alternative. (Seems like getting the whinging in early too me.) You're doing exactly the same by making your mind up about the trial... It's demeaning to the jury who may have a more open mind than you mate.
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In reply to Post #84
Apologies if ive in someway offended you. Thought you might have had a thicker skin the way youve been going on at other people.
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In reply to Post #83
So long as you deem it not "shouting down" your's whatever that bar is set by you. 
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In reply to Post #82
You are entitled to your opinion, wether its different to mine or not, i wont judge you. Cant speak for others though.
Have i at some point suggested you cant have an opinion?
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In reply to Post #81
Entitled is a strange way of putting it. Are people entitled to disagree?
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In reply to Post #68
Not just a reply to #66
The point I was making, is that this whole incident blew up, because BLM etc jumped on the back of it, as a white police officer killed a black man. The media, celebrities etc, ran with it as a racial incident. The world lost its mind. It was pushed as being a racial incident from the start. Yet nothing in the video, shows it was racist. It came because one was white, and one was black, and the perception of what people want to see. If you watched it with no idea what race skin colour etc was, I don’t think anyone would be saying anything other than the officer overstepped the mark and messed up.
The bodyworn before the 8 minutes of kneeling, did not show anything to suggest he was being treated in any other way, than they would have treated anyone else in that situation. That footage was not released intentionally, and maybe not for everyone, but could have helped calm the overall situation down.
And wether or not someone appears guilty, everyone is entitled to a fair trial. The storm caused by BLM etc and making this into an incident of race, prevents this being a fair trial. Emotions will be running high, and will jury members be scared to hold an opinion that differs to what others think. Normal people will accept the finding, wether they agree or not. But the vocal minority will be the ones that go out looting rioting etc, and, although a minority, it’s made to seem like a majority, and that will be in the jury’s mind also.
All murder trials are the same with only one person being there to give their side of the story. If you kill someone in a car crash, same thing. But I’m sure if it was your friend or family member, or yourself on trial, you’d want it to be a fair a trial as possible.
And I’ve already said I know it’s impossible for the jury not to have seen media etc, and I know they are doing the best they can, but it won’t be a fair trial.
But I am entitled to hold an opinion that differs, and share it, without being shouted down
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #76
Good on you for getting the thread back on track
I'm in agreement that whilst hindsight is a wonderful thing, foresight is part and parcel of what we surely must expect from emergency services personnel and is a key part of their training.
The paramedic statement was interesting. He sounded like his training helped him to assess the situation very accurately. Having to ask Chauvin to get off a limp body so he could attend to the man as a start point....
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In reply to Post #78
Agreed, you would think so and you'd hope so but not in this case.
Gross negligence certainly plays a big part in this, whether it was wilful murder is up to the trial.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 |  | |
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In reply to Post #77
Surely the training that police receive is specifically designed to allow officers to have that awareness.
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In reply to Post #76
Easy to say after the event when you can analyse, maybe not so easy when you're in the thick of it.
That's not making excuses by the way, not at all, just saying.
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In reply to Post #75
Trying to get back on track here, so where is the defence case heading? The police officer(s) apparently have to assess so many things going on e.g. threat from the suspect which after he was handcuffed was non existent, adjudged threat from local crowd, well that could have been minimised if they had got off him instead their actions could have created riots there and then and not a few days later if more people had witnessed what was occurring. There was no immediate threat from the dozen or so people on the pavement, the MMA guy could have posed a threat to them but didn´t! Interesting to hear about the different levels of force allowed, but it was clear that a person should not remain in a prone decision after being restrained but should then be turned sideways into a recovery position, that is obvious to anybody with common sense, no need for any special training which apparently all police officers receive! An intriguing if not at times pretty boring court case and I will keep watching it and commenting (without bias) on here and hopefully the thread will be posted on in a repsonsible manner. The trial continues!!!!
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In reply to Post #66
Did this accused officer get a fair hearing when he was fired by Minneapolis PD immediately? Notice the other officers present are still serving. Fair is as fair as you can be in the digital world mate. There's no alternative.
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In reply to Post #73
Hi Mal
"Johnny.... you punched a horse?!?! WTF?"
Yeah, sorry, but in the new woke world I've got to own it apparently.
I'm not proud, but yes it happened.
At twickers, just lost to France and a police horse decided to nuzzle my neck so I punched the ****er
Not my best moment
Best
Jon
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #68
Very well put. If Chauvin had done his job better, we'd perhaps all not be talking about the trial of George Floyd for passing on a fake note...
Fishie - absolutely agree with that first point. And much of the rest of your post too. I guess I'd add that there are also many people who see this moment to have a voice heard for the sake of positive change too.
Johnny.... you punched a horse?!?! WTF?
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In reply to Post #71
Quote I read today
"we seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what someone else did"
Todays society
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Hi All
I'm not a Catholic priest, I've never hit a woman, I was once arrested for punching a police horse. I've never stolen a car, never done a burglary and I've never been jailed. Kiddy fiddler? Nah, granny basher? Nah. Do I care who you pray to? Nah.
So just out of interest can anyone guess my skin colour?
The fact of the matter is it matters not a ****, both sides of the debate will hopefully realise one day only a man's actions define him
And for me...Mr Floyd had defined himself long before the incident
Best
Jon
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In reply to Post #66
The only person who knows if this is a racial incident is sitting behind a desk in the court house!
He is not on trial for being a racist but a cop who apparently failed in his duty of care to someone in his custody. It doesn't matter the colour of the dead person it matters that the correct procedures and whether human kindness were neglected, forgotten or disregarded.
Murder - no, Negligent manslaughter - yes, without the full hearing of evidence.
But thats not the issue here for MSM, activists , community leaders and politicians all vying to improve their kudos, remain in spotlight, fame and money. They ride on the back of these incidents and to be quite honest don't give 2 ****s about racism, oppression or people. Before this incident I bet they wouldn't even give GF loose change for a cup of coffee if he begged them and i bet the suit GF lawyer is wearing was worth more than GF's worldly belongings.
The next outcome of the result of the trial will be what make of trainers or handbag can i get for myself or whether i can play at being an anarchist but still go home for my breakfast!
Everyone wins in this situation except GF, honest law abiding moral people and justice.
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In reply to Post #67
Well you asked where to find it did you not, suggesting you hadnt seen it and werent aware of it
And can you explain how the initial footage shows it was racist? Which is what everyone was losing their mind over. Im sure this stuff happens all the time out there, with various races being both victim and suspect. But you dont hear about those because the media dont tell you about them.
The media revels in division, and if you cant see that the media do nothing to prevent it, then you need to open your eyes to the wider world
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In reply to Post #66
I'm just going to make a final point here. Fair trial? For the cop whose actions were directly responsible for a man's death? He gets a better shot at justice than George Floyd ever will...... and if you can't see the huge paradox in that statement, l can't help you.
Wouldn't surprise me if he's acquitted of all charges....l mean Rodney King did a helluva job assaulting those batons with his head and body.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #64
Your judgement of my knowledge of the case, of me being unaware of the chauvin body cam footage. . .
With regard to the incident and race, it will be looked at indivually by a jury. The wider context in terms of race and public interest cannot be ignored.
You make the claim that the footage disproves racism. It doesn't disprove it at all. Unless you care to explain how you see that it does of course?
And again, as I've said, he's not on trial for being racist.
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In reply to Post #65
Also, please link these facts about disproportionate killings of black people by the police if you wouldnt mind. Nothing like data to support an argument
And no one is saying its not appalling. It was wrong. But back to my original pount. It wont be a fair trial. Wether guilty or not, everyone is entitled to that
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In reply to Post #63
Who said racism doesnt exist? Im meary saying that we cant just someones actions based on limited facts. You can have an opinion, but to say its definitely a racist incident is obsurd.
I take an objective biew on everything, i dont jump to conclusions based on media and social media input. I dont jump on band wagons.
And i said effectively calling someone a racist, which you below comment is doing
And l guess you don't really want to know either because then you would have to acknowledge that you're probably racist too.
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In reply to Post #62
What judgement did i make? Just because you say something doesnt make it true.
Why do i need to absolutely disprove the that i dont think there is a racial element to this. Im not the one making that call based purely on the colour of the people involveds skin? That is, yourself, as well as many others around the world with the same opinion, based on what. Please explain why this is a racist incident?
Wether there is a wider context of those issues in the us, that doesnt mean it applies to every incident. Every incident should be looked at individually.. You cant just say something is racist because the colour of peoples skin. The world went crazy because it decided that incident was racist. There is no proof that it is racist, and the body worm, which shows far more of the incident than the 9 minutes of kneeling, do not show it was related to anyones race.
You asked me about working for the mineappolis police or medical services in the us earlier. How long have you lived in america to be able to make statements about how the police operate in the us?
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Response to Heff and Spinbowler;-
Heff, please re-read my post. I meant I'm not going to explain racism. I didn't call anyone racist and was trying to articulate why people don't try to understand racism is because if they did understand, they might not like what they see in the mirror. So, the defence mechanism is to deny that it exists, or deliberately avoid understanding the issue, to stop that view from being challenged. You can't solve a problem until you acknowledge it's existence. So- racism doesn't exist equals I don't have to think about about what l say or do and if you happen to be called out the response is don't you dare call me racist.
Spinbowler;- I'm not the one resorting to petty insults and thanks for completely proving my point by responding as I predicted, you silly sausage!
Fact;- black people disproportionally die at the hands of US law enforcement in comparison to white people. There are numerous examples of innocent and sometimes not so innocent black people being shot to death by and for emphasis, just so you're clear MAINLY WHITE Police Officers. Why do you think that happens? Do you really think that would have happened to a white man?
Any right minded person should be appalled at what happened to George Floyd. No matter what his criminal record may or may not be, lethal force was exerted that day which was completely disproportionate to those events and a man died at the hands of a Police Officer when he shouldn't have. Or are you saying it's ok for Police to end a life because they're a (black) wrong un?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #59
There you go making judgement without all the information again.
I've seen the body cam footage. I asked you to point me in the direction of what you are seemingly convinced is footage that absolutely disproves any race related context because having seen Chauvins video, I do not agree that it disproves it at all.
Chauvin is on trial because a man died while he was kneeling on his neck. That would be the same regardless of colour. He's not on trial for racism. However, to try and pretend that the facts of the incident don't fit into a wider context of those issues in the US - and in the way the police operate - is blinkered.
Because of this wider context and the very questionable history of too many related events; there is huge public interest. It's race related because of the individuals involved, whether you agree or not. The facts are that simple. I'm afraid the white victimhood stuff just doesn't wash (if Floyd was white nobody would care etc.) .
As for getting 'all' of the information I'm afraid that's not going to be possible for anyone now as one of the individuals isn't able to present his case.
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In reply to Post #58
You're definitely as thick as him and yes you are most definitely WOKE.
How many times does it have to be pointed out to people like you that when you are losing the argument you pull out the racist card, do you even know You're doing it?
I'm not wound up I'm cracking up in laughter watching all you WOKE Leftys swimming against the tide day in day out and the best bit is the tide is only getting stronger.
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In reply to Post #54
So having watched the initial footage, which shows nothing to suggest is was racist, and the body cam footage to back it up. I dont think it was racist. Not sure how that could make me racist, as suggested below.
However you who had only watched the initial footage and read stuff in the media, is so certain it is a racist incident.
Read what im saying, educate yourself with facts before making sweeping judgements on stuff. Stop being facetious about it and open your mind to the possibility that there are often 2 or more sides to a story, and maybe stuff is being steered in a certain way, because there is an agenda.
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In reply to Post #58
I am not getting wound up in the slightest, merely trying to have an afult discussion with people about a subject. But it appears a discussion is a waste of time when people have already made their mind up on something, that they dont have all the information about, but have been lead by the media and unwilling to look at anything subjectively.
Mr mal for example, knows all about this case, but wasnt even aware the bodyworn had been released or even existed. I do hope you never find yourself on the receiving end of a band wagon.
And please explain to me what made this a racist incident, other than a white police officer stopping a black member of the public? You are aware this wasnt a random stop right? Would we be having this discussion if george floyd was white and exactly the same thing had taken place? No we would t, because the media would have got nothing out out of it, and you wouldnt be able to get up on your high horse about it.
Is there an issue with racism in the states, yes, there is, but that doesnt mean everything between a white police officer and a black member of the public is a racist incident
But thanks for your input, all that to effectively call people racist, and explain why you wont explain yourself
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In reply to Post #55
I'm sure Mal can look after himself, but looks to me like the ones getting wound up are yourself and heff. Clearly neither of you have the faintest idea about what racism is.
And l guess you don't really want to know either because then you would have to acknowledge that you're probably racist too.
And no, I'm not going to explain it- you would reject anything l say because I'm either woke or a PC liberal.
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In reply to Post #56
I guess that's the whole point of a discussion Braders. Some people have strong views on the subject, others couldn't really give a ****
Some people need to appreciate that other people have their own views too 
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Well yet another thread that was only going to end one way on here
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In reply to Post #54
Your life must be so empty if you can get so wound up and waste so much energy on something so far away but hey you ride the band wagon, but then what else have you got to do when that bell goes.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #51
I feel for you. You could try indeed or one of the other job websites and see if there's something more worthwhile out there.
By the way... what percentage of the available information would you say Chauvins body cam equates to? You know, that which you are basing your entire judgement on the 'proof' that there was no race related issue.... less than 10 per cent maybe?
New footage from the cams of the other officers today. Plus witness statement from the guy who served him in the shop. None of which point to the pathetic argument that Chauvin was 'in fear for his safety / life'.
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In reply to Post #52
A bit colder but no rain forecast
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In reply to Post #50
That's a bit better
Keep that transparent skin out of the weather, could be rain soon.
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In reply to Post #47
If youd have used google, and typed in, george floyd body cam footage, it comes up. But instead you decide to act up and write 10 times that in sarcasm. And the incident was never racially motivated, it was made into a racist incident, by the media and anyone else who decided they could benefit from it. Just because the police officer is white, and the person being dealt with is black, does not make it a racist incident.
And if you are happy to make a judgment on an entire situation, based on 10% of the available information, you crack on with all the other wallys running around shouting about stuff they know nothing about.
And what i do for a living is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact i know i am not in full possession of the facts, so am in no place to pass judgement on a situation.
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In reply to Post #49
I bet you do, back in the dry
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In reply to Post #46
Don't need any help numpty I look forward to it
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In reply to Post #40
It took 15 minutes for 4 tough guy US police offices to reduce Rodney Kings facial bones to dust on film, to be found innocent at trail mate. The ramifications were huge and brought about change for a systematically racist LAPD at that time by subsequent enquiry.
Whatever the "ace" is if there even is one it'll be tough to be a jury member.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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In reply to Post #37
Where can we see this footage? The stuff that 'disproved the racist element'.
I'm genuinely interested to have a look. Is it video of Chauvin kneeling on a white mans neck for nearly nine minutes until he dies just to show it's not race related? A short monologue about how some of his best mates are black? A bit of post death footage where he says he was taking a knee in support of Colin Kapearnick and the bad guy just got in the way...? Excuse my sarcasm but you seem happy enough to accept this footage as truth while saying that the other footage isn't enough for people to form a judgement. Last I looked, it still showed the same horrific act.
And the OP asked about people's thoughts on the matter. Not for expert analysis. Out of interest how many years did you do in the Minneapolis Police Department? Or were you on the medical side?
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In reply to Post #45
You keep telling yourself that if helps you get up in the morning 
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In reply to Post #33
You care or you wouldn't have been arsed to type out your usual thin skinned terrified bile. Joe and his commie government will sort any problems out you're scared of .
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In reply to Post #40
I wasnt talking about this specific incident, i would have explained that, but thought what i had written was fairly clear. it was a general comment about people with no idea what they are talking about, ie experience in that field, holding people to account without even knowing the full facts.
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In reply to Post #41
Crackers
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In reply to Post #40
Any thoughts on what ace card the defence lawyer has up his sleeve to achieve a manslaughter verdict?
Yep, he used what he deemed to be reasonable force and feared for his life, case closed
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I find it a pity that the fella never had a gun and then the four coppers could have turned the worthless piece of **** into a teabag and done the world a favour.
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In reply to Post #37
Sorry but in this situation, with 4 police officers and a big guy incapacitated by a drug(s), restrained in handcuffs, it shouldn't take 9 minutes to sort out, not excatly a split second decision! Unlike past celebrity trials in the US e.g.O J Simpson, the 2 main lawyers are not trying to win an oscar, they seem like normal people. It is suggested that the trial could last 2 to 4 weeks, I think it has already been proven that Chauvin overstepped the line so are we going to have 1 to 3 weeks of character references stating what a great guy he really is? Any thoughts on what ace card the defence lawyer has up his sleeve to achieve a manslaughter verdict?
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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That false feeling of power matey felt kneeling on GF’s neck will be a distant memory when the brothers catch up with him  Lol
Not something I’ll follow personally, I find it a bit tasteless. Just tell me the verdict
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In reply to Post #37
Good post that mate
I think the white man will get away with a light sentence and this in turn will cause global riots by mindless morons of all skin colours who do not know the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, just brainwashed by the media
The police officers duty is to uphold the law, could say he crossed the line with his heavy handed techniques but I do not know what the American handbook of policing approves. The flip side of the coin is that people like Mr Floyd with a track record are not angels as portrayed by the media, I would use the word **** to describe somebody of his nature, maybe a real nasty one?
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In reply to Post #34
I havent mentioned wether i think he is guilty or not. Its not my place to make that judgement, and i wouldnt without having all the facts. Im just fed up of people making judgements based on a video clip that shows only part of what has happened
Police officers make split second decisions all the time, they are judged for their actions by people with the benefit of hindsight, who have never been in that position, the same experts that know more about covid than scientists and doctors do.
We cant judge the man based on what we know.
Bodyworn footage that disproved the racist element of this incident was deliberately withheld by the district attorney, i believe his words were in the interest of justice. This wont be a fair trial, because it wasnt a fair investigation, and has been influenced by media and political agendas.
The media did not screen the morgan freeman and denzil washington interviews about racism and the police and the black community in america, because they did not fit the media narrative. Yet any lunatic with a left wing agenda got air time.
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In reply to Post #34
I think he may end up being charged with manslaughter
Not sure of US law but that's what I think will happen.
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In reply to Post #34
Point proven.....predictably
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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Point proven.... predictably
Anyway...
Heff- it would be nigh on impossible to find anyone to sit on the jury who hasn't seen the media coverage. Of all views. But they will be asked to make judgement on the cases presented to them which is the best the current system can ask for. It's flawed. We're saying the same thing I think even if we don't agree on the guilt of Chauvin.
In terms of a fair trial, Chauvin is at least getting a hearing prior to any judgement and sentence. Floyd didn't get that opportunity for a far lesser crime.
In terms of facts. There's credible footage of Chauvins actions that day. Unless the media are hiding some secret video where he didn't do it, then it's hard to argue really. I think he may end up being charged with manslaughter which is where I was saying I don't know how he can deny it. I think the US definitions of murder might differ from ours and the notion of premeditation isn't what many people think it is.
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In reply to Post #28
Chairman Mal, Spunker etc are all for freedom of speech as long as it corresponds with their beliefs, if not you're an idiot, racist or what ever the new Lefty buzz word is this week, proved beyond any doubt over the last week or so.
I tend not to worry too much about it, I and others know what they are and I sleep soundly in the knowledge that the twisted utopia they crave will never never happen in their lifetime if at all.
As for the trial etc, who cares, its the USA. As stated it will all end in tears and no doubt more deaths pretty pointless really. BUT it suits the Lefty's being a US story, where are all the twisted hippies and commies when it comes to the Chinese, North Korean's, Russia etc? Far greater crimes committed but not a peep.
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In reply to Post #29
Exactly
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In reply to Post #26
Refer to#4
The reason for the different degrees of offence charged are clearly because of the defence position. They'll argue about what the officer was thinking at the time. How scared for his own safety was he?Did he fear for his life? How trained for the situation was he? etc.
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In reply to Post #24
I will on this rare occasion thanks.Put your dummy back in ffs. One minute Lewishams own Gandhi the next an enthusiastic cancel culture merchant.
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In reply to Post #28
Freedom of speech hasnt gone anywhere, you are perfectly entitled to your own opinion, but as long as its the same as mine
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In reply to Post #25
Chairperson Mal sets his scene, quite ironic your confident stereotypical views. so much for unconscious bias
Can we all have the freedom of speech now, are we allowed?
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In reply to Post #11
It won’t be fair, as he has already had trial by media. Don’t forget it was a racial killing until the bodywork video footage was released and disproved it. No way any of the jury haven’t already formed an opinion on the matter. In an ideal world, they would have no prior knowledge of it. I know there is no other way of doing it, but it is not ideal.
And as if to prove my point, there are already posts on here saying hes guilty, how can he plead not guilty. These biews based entirely on what the media have allowed you to see. These are not views based on full facts. The jury will have seen the same media, so they have already formed opinions on the case before hearing a single piece of evidence. That is not a fair trial.
Society is too quick to jump onto the back of something and form opinions based on little or no facts. And everyone is an expert on stuff they know nothing about. Social media has given idiots a voice, made the vocal minority seem like the majority, and allowed the media to stir up hatred and division.
And assuming it’s a similar system to the uk, they have 3 charges on there, as if murder is disproven, and he wasn’t tried for manslaughter, he can’t be found guilty of it. For it to be murder, it needs to be premeditated. Manslaughter is reckless, which is what this case will be about. However if he wasn’t tried for myurder, they would have to deal with the uneducated who cause a big song and dance about it.
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In reply to Post #25
The interrogation of the fire fighter (and trained first responder) by the defence lawyer yesterday was insulting and showed a lack of respect to the lady. Ok it seems that the defence case will at the moment be trying to form a case based on the following.;-
1. The parademics had already been called by the police before the lady was on the scene, though there is a question about what time the call was made and how long the parademics took to arrive and the delay in the firefighters arriving when they were a closer to the scene. Whatever the truth was about notifying the other authorities why was Chauvins knee on Floyd's neck right up to the moment the paramedics arrived. Either there was a medical crisis or there wasn't.
2. It was suggested that Floyd might resume consciousness and then confront the 4 officers, he might have been a big guy but already having been handcuffed, unbelievable. Also he was never going to regain consciousness with a knee remaining on his neck.
3. His death may have been caused by drug overdose, not heard the medical evidence yet so can't comment on that at the moment.
Anybody know why he has been charged on 3 different counts i.e. 2nd and 3rd degree murder and also manslughter, presumably because there is going to be some plea bargaining as the case concludes.
Really looking forward to hearing from the police being interrogated.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8910 | | |
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Didn't take long ....
Thing is, as tinhead says, it's a fishing forum with a smaller section for other stuff. There are a few of us that have an interest in politics / current affairs etc. who post more often in these type of threads.
That will always be against a number of contexts...
We each bring our own experiences and passions to discussion. Fishie knows more about the police than probably most of us put together, so will often post in relation to that aspect. Spanker, who may be more political than most, is fervent in his viewpoint on the current right wing bias and corruption. Tinhead doesn't like wooden flower beds. Wayne likes to provoke reaction. Noj is great at sarcasm. Jon brings objective wit. There are some who simply post to criticise others, call names, whatever - it's an unfortunate by product of social media and as Ocelot says - an abundance of dickheads..... I'm passionate about education due to my job and equality and issues of race because of my family. And I'm all about helping the less fortunate because I'm a snowflake, not a dick.... (that's a small joke there).
We all - consciously or not - bring our own bias. And sometimes we can learn from that, and sometimes we'll agree to disagree, and sometimes we'll get wound up and have a rant and then a few days off because there's more important things going on...
Carp fishing, by demographic, is largely a white male pastime. We're probably not the experts on the wider context of the George Floyd case I.e. Systemic racial inequality in the U.S.
How about we try to avoid this descending into the usual crapfest?
That in mind,.....
fishie, I agree. Due process has to be followed or what's the point of a legal system at all? I don't think the police are on trial, the individuals concerned are. But I do think the process is under scrutiny - rightly so because is so potentially explosive and because we now live in a world where it's almost impossible for a jury to have not seen so much prior to the trial. I think it's an absolute joke that Chauvin can plead not guilty, and that someone will be paid to defend that standpoint. But it's the system in place and if this case highlights flaws in it then maybe there's potential for some positive reform as a result.
I'm watching it with interest. As said already, if it's not for you, don't watch it. Go fishing. It's lovely outside. Peace and love
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In reply to Post #22
I was quite happy reading to begin with before posting, but felt my single post#15 was appropriate. I was happy to leave it as one post for a while but you started questioning my opinion. If you don't want answers don't question me.
I feel you are dragging me into a tit for tat so you can have the last word.
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In reply to Post #22
erm.........OP Said discuss feelings.......I have expressed mine on the matter.....
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In reply to Post #21
Mate, you and a couple of the usual suspects haven't posted once in this thread anything about the issue raised by the OP. Have a look in the mirror 
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In reply to Post #20
I call it moderation of a fishing forum, not many fishing forums left, it needs to be looked after or it will go like so many others.
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In reply to Post #19
Same can be said for all walks of life, if cancel culture is your preferred solution for all fair enough.
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In reply to Post #18
Yes it's working well. You have to remember this is primarily a fishing forum, a non carp section is allowed by the goodness of the forum owner. If something gets out of hand and causes derision amongst the members it goes, that includes everything including bait, fishing personalities and of course politics.
I think this forum is mainly well moderated
Better to join a political forum if that's your thing 
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In reply to Post #15
So you believe that this "cancel culture" that a few rail against works then
Not a fan personally.
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In reply to Post #15
OMLM as I'm a selfish *******
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In reply to Post #15
But maybe others that were previously reluctant to contribute to these type of threads might do so now
Very good point........
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In reply to Post #9
But maybe others that were previously reluctant to contribute to these type of threads might do so now
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Guilty = Rioting, Looting and general excuse to cause mayhem pushed by Antifa and BLM Movements.
Not guilty = Rioting, Looting and general excuse to cause mayhem pushed by Antifa and BLM Movements.
Biden will stir the pot yet there will be no mention of it at all.......
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In reply to Post #12
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In reply to Post #10
Innocent until proved guilty mean anything to anyone!
He is guilty as sin, but has to be tried in a decent and open trial. The televising of this shows to the world how open and transparent the process will be. But it has already been hijacked by emotion i.e. family, prosecution team and community leaders kneeling before the trial. Its a criminal trial governed by rules and legal parameters and should say as such. All they are doing is giving him a chance of a mis-trial or grounds to appeal.
All this ******** that it is the Police is on trial is just that!
It is 4 men who were negligent/criminal/unthinking/callous/uncaring as police officers and also as decent human beings, being put on trial.
I can guarantee that there will be riots, looting and disorder if he is found guilty or not guilty. And not just in America! In this country the women's vigil/protest hasn't taken off, "kill the Bill ' is floundering so lets get behind this to damage, steal, assault and a chance to feel relevant, unless its raining then we will do it tomorrow! 
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In reply to Post #10
Interested in why you think it will not be a fair trial? Of course they have to go through the motions, really looking forward to hearing the police officers testimonies.
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It is a trial. But its never going to be a fair trial. Everyone on the jury will have seen and heard about it before, seen the riots etc.
I know it has to be a trial, but the whole point in it is that the jury should be impartial and make a verdict based on facts, evidence and legislation. That will not happen in this case. But there is no other way of doing it i suppose.
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In reply to Post #8
True unfortunately
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In reply to Post #7
Not as many as there were.
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In reply to Post #1
Are we allowed to discuss our feelings
Be careful, there are some sensitive ones amongst us 
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In reply to Post #5
You can't worry about the dickheads mate. They're a permanent fixture in life 
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In reply to Post #3
There's a legal process which has to be followed. Even when the evidence is overwhelming.
Your - and anyone else's mind being made up isn't the issue.
There's huge public interest and the legal system itself is under scrutiny hence the televised trial.
You don't have to watch it.
Unfortunately it will probably be only a matter of time before this thread takes a turn for the nasty given previous experience.
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In reply to Post #3
What appears straightforward to the observer is never that straightforward in the mind of the perceived perpetrator. That's why it'll last longer than you think mate.
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In reply to Post #2
Ok I have always been outspoken, so I will start this debate by saying why are they even bothering to have a trial which will last a long time? The video footage which has been around for quite a while now clearly shows what has happened. My mind is obviously made up on who is guilty and who is not! Leave it there for the moment!
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In reply to Post #1
Go for it. It can only go one of two ways 🙈
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Are we allowed to discuss our feelings on the current televised trial on here? The non carp stuff section is the appropriate category available and no doubt will be locked at some stage but at the moment why not let some of us comment on what we think?
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NON Carp stuff