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In reply to Post #137
Brilliant lake and brilliant owners. 👍👍
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Was meant to be fishing the island lake this November but with the current situation I sent them a polite email asking if we could change the date to next June.
Paul and Mandy replied and agreed that we could change the date with no issues at all so a good outcome and accommodating owners 👍👍
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In reply to Post #135
Employed on zero hours and working currently. It's all the talk of protecting the vulnerable that's bugging me. How exactly is that happening? Because my experience says nothing at all.
I've not said we should all sit at home, but we shouldn't all just be cracking on as normal like most here seem to think is the right thing to do
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In reply to Post #127
Self employed? Employed? Furloughed? Just trying to see where you are coming from with your argument to sit at home
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In reply to Post #131
I agree , I’m sorry if that post caused any offence , it’s been very difficult for all of us and we all have our different opinions on the matter , for what it’s worth I’ve been following gov guidelines and im tested twice a week in line with the rest of the work force edit .. private paid testing
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In reply to Post #132
I know 3 people that have Covid symptoms, one being in the key worker sector. Not one can get a test.
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In reply to Post #130
That's the thing mate its not going to hit the heights of the first outbreak!! we are testing 3 times plus as many people so figures are going to rise the death rates are dropping check the link below its been proving that Covid is getting blamed for deaths that have no link to it, Media is telling people what they want to hear I know people in the medical sector and this was discussed to them weeks ago that a lock down was coming again despite stats showing its not needed!!
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
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In reply to Post #130
Really don´t understand why people are attacking each other in these difficulty times...FOR EVERYBODY!! Unprecended for all of us, though us oldies will remember films almost classified as science fiction where towns were quarantined because of an unknown virus, can´t remember any titles (though a few on here will help me out), funny but sadly how some of these futuristic films have now become realistic!
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We'll see if you all share the same views in a couple of months time when it hits properly, at the rate its climbing again those nightingale hospitals will be needed this time round without stronger measures coming in to place very soon
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In reply to Post #128
Exactly 👍, what is Dazwacky meant to say ..... ‘ yeah go on have another lockdown JUST in case you may end up getting C19 at some point , sod my business, my house , family , livelihood , it’s ok I’ll be out on the streets ‘ ? 😂😂😂
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In reply to Post #126
So like dazwacky your looking out for yourself cause your high risk. Which of course is understandable but don’t you think he should feel the same seeing as he could lose his business his house and affect his health
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In reply to Post #123
Construction, not that it makes a difference
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In reply to Post #122
I don't watch the BBC. My concerns come from being high risk myself
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In reply to Post #122
Too right, all the media outlets aren’t helping in the slightest.
After Brexit and this I haven’t got time for them any more. I’ve deleted all news apps from my phone and avoid the radio and Live TV just to get away from it all. Closed my Twitter account and don’t do any social media.
Find I have a clearer head to think about things for myself rather than be manipulated.
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In reply to Post #120
But death rate still around 5 year average
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In reply to Post #120
Out of interest what do you do for work?
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In reply to Post #120
You need to stop watching the BBC mate
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In reply to Post #120
Just close everything down for 1 year till they develop vaccine and live on fresh air and love...
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In reply to Post #119
That's right mate, your wallet is more important than people's lives.... And the cases are rising and will continue to do so, and at a faster rate than before.
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In reply to Post #118
Do you really??? I run my own business, and we have borrowed a substantial amount of money to keep it a float a second lock down would probably close us resulting in redundancies maybe losing my house so people really need to get real and look at the bigger picture we have a virus that has no cure, cases are rising but nowhere near the deaths at the start of the Covid, we are doing everything we can to protect ourselves but another lock down would be madness as it will spell the end for a hell of a lot of firms who barely survived the first wave!!
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In reply to Post #116
That attitude is appalling
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In reply to Post #116
I think you are right, the majority are not worried and if you kill off all the older people that would be great for the younger peoples pensions later on, sadly those of us over the retirement age are worried. I also think you are wrong by the way! No solution to any of this at the moment until Trump discloses a new vaccine the week before the US elections, watch this space!
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In reply to Post #115
I think the majority are not worried, and what is the point in putting the country into lock down for when we come back out of it we will be back to square one! everyone I speak to are at the point its here to stay and we should just get on with it more people die of other daily diseases do we go into Lock down for them?? NO, you can protect the old and vulnerable to the best of our ability but the rest should just carry on as normal too many snowflakes in the country in my opinion ;-)
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In reply to Post #114
Apart from agreeing with you that we should try and protect the economy, maybe more consideration should be given to making sure we have enough people around to drive the economy forward. I am glad you are not our Health Minister. You portray a very poor attitude, sorry m8! Covid might kill the same number of people as flu but now we have 2 viruses that we have no treatment for which means twice as many people will die this Winter. The statistics show that more people on average this year have died than previous years and the worst figures likely to continue throughout the Winter, glad you are not worried, I think the majority of us are!!!!
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In reply to Post #109
Totally agree with Bullseye the whole Covid thing is nonsense its a Flu type infection and there has been a lot of deaths blamed on it which it didn't contribute too and that is a fact, there is no cure for it at present, same as other flu's Lock down will do nothing apart from ruin the economy even more!! its here to stay and life must keep going on.
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They vaccinate for flu but people still die .
So what’s the point waiting for one for COVID .
Don’t think I will bother as I think it’s a load of old toffee
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In reply to Post #111
I don't disagree, but his original comment of only the elderly need to be concerned is what I have issue with. It's utter nonsense
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In reply to Post #110
I totally agree with Bullseye, this is not going to disappear, it's exactly the same sort of virus as flu and any measures taken are only delay tactics. Too much media hype and dick waving by officials I'm afraid to say. Protect the vulnerable as best we can and crack on.
We are just delaying the inevitable, let it take its course so we can return to some sort of normality.
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In reply to Post #109
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In reply to Post #108
Way I see it we don't have many options.
1. Vaccine or cure. Might be waiting for something they never develop.
2. Lockdown again. Destroy the economy further and once you open up you go back to square one with infection rises.
3. Local lockdowns. Won't work without track, trace and enough testing.
4. Protect the vulnerable and let the rest get on with life. Over time build up a certain amount of natural immunity.
I'm going for number 4.
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In reply to Post #106
But that's not what you said. You said it's not a concern unless you are old with underlying conditions. Which is nonsense
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In reply to Post #106
I agree with you on that but every Tom dick & Harry spreading it is the problem. It might not effect you or even show itself in you but you can still pass it on without knowing
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In reply to Post #102
It's a fact. The elderly and those with underlying health problems are much more at risk.
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In reply to Post #99
Flying backwards and forwards to England doesn't help much with social distancing, also not doing much quarantining don't help either.
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In reply to Post #101
Yes. When they ease the lock down rules.
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In reply to Post #101
Attitude has everything to do with it, your first statement shows how poor your attitude is. It's only the elderly who are vulnerable according to you, which is ********
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In reply to Post #100
Attitude has zero to do with it. It's a fact. Countries that had Draconian lockdowns have rising covid cases.
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In reply to Post #99
Not with your attitude no
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In reply to Post #97
It's not being blase that spreads it. It will spread naturally. You can't stop that. I wear a mask at the supermarket, I wash my hands regularly, I use the hand sanitizer in the shops and I socially distance 1 to 1.5 meters at every opportunity. Common sense measures. But you are not going to stop the virus spreading.
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In reply to Post #97
too many people still think its a joke.
I bet if one of the symptoms was ''your manhood will drop off' a lot more people would be wearing a mask......
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In reply to Post #96
Everyone is vulnerable, and it's people like you being blasé which is spreading it around
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In reply to Post #95
In France. And if you use common sense you won't spread it will you? Social distance, wash hands, don't visit the the vulnerable if you suspect you have flu like symptoms.
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In reply to Post #93
Are you that thick? Whilst you are right the majority will not be affected, how do you think the virus spreads? Where have you been the last 6 months
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In reply to Post #93
What an idiotic statement
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In reply to Post #92
It's not a concern for anyone unless you are elderly with underlying health conditions. Roughly 99.8% of the population will be ok.
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In reply to Post #90
https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA
Yes the overseas regions numbers are tiny.
Not to worry though, this Covid thing isn't a concern for you. 
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In reply to Post #84
Luckily my trip for this year has been carried over to next year by the lake owner. Cheers Lyn!
But my employer has advised that anyone travelling abroad, where 14 days quarantine is expected on their return is putting their future employment in jeopardy.
Reason enough for me not to go (if I were going).
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In reply to Post #89
You also failed to mention the French figures include overseas territories like la le reunion, Martinique, Guyana, Corsica and Guadeloupe. Plus many areas of France haven't seen rises in hospital admissions or deaths. My region for example has had 2 deaths in a month. The main areas driving rises are Paris, Bordeaux and Marseille.
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In reply to Post #85
I also failed to mention that admissions into French hospitals with Covid is now again on the rise...
"The number of patients in intensive care units in the country has also been rising in recent days. While hospital figures are still far from the peaks reached in April, there are concerns over the strain that rising infection rates could put on the health system."
hopefully the numbers can be reduced with people listening to the guidance else it'll just continue to rise with the inevitable hospital admissions and then rising deaths.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54151281
The use of hospital beds by Covid-19 patients in the French city of Marseille is "close to saturation" amid a sharp spike in infections.
Surgeries are being reduced to cope with an incidence rate that has risen to 312 per 100,000 since September.
Yep, their testing more now but there's a huge surge in infections as we can see by hospital numbers rising rapidly...
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In reply to Post #84
Just to clarify that we are very aware of the risk of spreading covid so keep to social distancing with our anglers and totally disinfect the shower block each day. If both lakes have anglers we segregate the shower/toilet facilitates and ensure that full disinfection is carried out between group changeover times. Hand sanitizer is in the shower block at all times. Cannot be to careful.
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In reply to Post #86
I came back from France on the 5th after a weeks fishing.
My observations are:
- try to avoid motorway services if you can or if not, if it’s busy get back in your car and drive to the next one. Most people did have masks on but the queue that my wife was in for the lady’s toilets was long and no social distancing was followed
- even in rural areas people were wearing masks. The supermarkets were great and we didn’t feel at risk
- euro tunnel procedures were great and you can use with confidence
- still quarantining at the moment but not had any contact from a government official to check up on us as of yet
Out again in a couple of weeks and would feel confident going again
In terms of hygiene at the lake I would suggest taking control of your own safety and risk of exposure. Wash your hands regularly, use hand sanitiser when required and if indoors wear a mask.
I will eat outside or in my own swim at mealtimes
Will be interesting to see how the draw for swims is done. Last time out I had the lake to myself so not a problem
I also think that there will be anglers dropping out on my next week so the lake won’t be anywhere near full capacity
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In reply to Post #85
If it so safe out there it makes me wonder why our Government are overreacting so much, they should concentrate on Brexit!
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In reply to Post #84
You failed to mention only 17 deaths. Or the fact France, after a very slow start, has massively ramped up testing. More tests equals more positive results.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirucountry/france/
France had more than 10k new cases yesterday.
Can you trust that everyone (including their families)at the lake has been following guidelines in the week/s before coming to the lake? did everyone follow the guidelines on the way to the lake? Is everyone following the guideline now at the lake?
It's not just a case of 'what's the chance of catching it at a lake miles away from the general population '....
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In reply to Post #82
Glad you found my reply funny  , of course that was posted under the assumption that the same social distance measures (at all times) and strict coronavirus prevention cleaning measures are applied at foreign venues, of course I am sure they will be!
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In reply to Post #81
I gotta laugh out of that reply, far too often people are so obsessed with their opinions being right they would argue the toss and stick to their guns. Fair play for the response 
Me and a friend have had similar discussions, you may well be safer sat in the middle of no where by the side of a lake, however the officials are not to know if that's all you've done, so it's the same rule for everyone coming from the country. UK numbers are seemingly growing faster and faster, but I think government will be too worried about £££ to do another full lockdown soon.
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In reply to Post #80
When you put it like that I can´t really disagree with you.
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In reply to Post #79
can you explain that a litlle bit? Somebody going to work in uk 5-6 days a week (maybe even with train or similar) is using toilet and eating lunch with less people than on a lake in france in a week where majority of people will not leave site for a week? If that is true than for sure you are right!
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In reply to Post #78
More if using shared toilet and shower facilities and eating together.
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In reply to Post #76
what are your chances of getting infected with lets say 8 anglers on the lake for a week all from uk more than likely in comparison to 1 week of normal life in uk?
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In reply to Post #76
Spain´s figures are even worse than France and 300k worldwide cases yesterday which is about a 10% increase in the total cases since the start of the virus, this 2nd wave could end up worse than the first one. . 
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bad news if your due out soon ... France did nearly 10,000 new cases today but the situation must improve so there's hope if your trip is maybe oct/nov...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/france-coronavirus-cases.html
There's a map showing the worst spots as well.
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In reply to Post #74
We were due out the week before, took the decision last week to amend the booking Spoke with Bas at the Carp Specialist he has honoured the booking for 2021 or 2022 as he has had that many cancellations for this year that next years diaries are filling up, we have managed to get the week after same month next year.
Spoke to Brittany ferries then to reschedule my crossing that I had for October to September next year as I have a booking at Rainbow which was an extra 12 quid can't say fairer than that, will re book next Octobers crossing later this year to see if the Portsmouth to Le Harve route opens back up as it's cheaper than the Caen crossing by about 100 sheets.
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In reply to Post #73
we are due to go 24th October
cant see it happening now though we have already moved it once from April
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In reply to Post #72
We are due to go end of Nov to be honest can't see the quarantine being lifted so will have to wait til next year 😥😥
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We were due out to france 26th sept, however with the current quarentine situation we have delayed our trip to 7th Nov in the hope that france gets lifted from the list...
(Our group of 4 are either self employed or cannot work from home on return, plus wives that work in nhs etc so not worth the risk to go sept)
The fishery were happy to change our weeks no problem, no extra cost etc, tunnel booking easy to move as well to new dates.
Lets hope things improve , but its still looking bleak case number wise across Europe...
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In reply to Post #70
You are a gentleman Sir!
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In reply to Post #67
So i cancelled my trip last week. I cant risk the quarantine as i am on my own so would be pooping myself when walking the dog or shopping. Managed to reschedule ferry for our trip next year but the insurance was not what i expected. They said my friend would have to make a separate claim with his bank but he doesnt have the insurance, even though the bank had already said i can make a claim for both. So they offered me half of the total cost minus the £75 excess. Pretty sure we wont be able to get my mates money back so i have given him half of what i will receive which will pay the deposit for next years trip.
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In reply to Post #68
A slightly different spin.
https://www.france24.com/en/20200828-france-reports-7-379-new-covid-19-cases-macron-against-new-lockdown
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53954562
France numbers of Covid victims exceeded 7000 on Friday, Macron has said that he's not ruling out another lockdown.....
Bad news.....
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In reply to Post #66
Due to go to Abbey next Friday and unfortunately I cannot quarantine for two weeks on my return .
They are not prepared to move the week as country still not in lockdown and they are open for business ( which I understand ) gutted I can’t go also have a trip booked for the end of October to Woods on Goncourt .
That has been booked for around two years and just hoping things change by then
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In reply to Post #65
Due out in 2 weeks so I spoke to my bank as i have holiday insurance through them. They said i will be able to make a claim because of UK quarantine restrictions but will charge me £75 excess per person. Spoke to the Lake owners and because the French have not imposed any restrictions yet and the lake is still open, they are not at liberty to offer me a refund. Might be possible to reschedule to next year but not had that discussion with them yet.
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Insurance will not cover you for UK quarantine requirements so no need to have a discussion about insurance. Current UK travel advice is do not go to France except for essential reasons.
If your due to go soon and can't do the 2 week quarantine then it's down to a discussion with the lake owner. Most lakes T's and C's are brief and usually drop to 'owners discretion'. If the lake owner isn't willing to move your booking (You can't really expect a refund full or partial) then you just have to swallow the loss.
Tough times for anglers and fishery owners.
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In reply to Post #63
Doesn’t affect your breakdown cover
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In reply to Post #59
Just a thought but maybe because it’s against foreign office advice, invalidates your travel insurance and breakdown cover. Not difficult is it. Plus do you expect anglers to lose 2 weeks wages on their return because of quarantine.
I wouldn’t want fisheries to be closing and I understand their predicament but it is still more sensible to stay at home then travel.
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In reply to Post #59
That’s spot on 👍🏻
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In reply to Post #59
Thank You and Well Said
John
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People moaning about not getting a refund now or moving holidays need your head wobbling........If venue you Booked is OPEN and providing the service you paid for then why the hell should you get reimbursed.......  
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In reply to Post #52
i DO get your point, but you are continually ignoring mine, and the same point made by others.. you have also not suggested a solution, " l still don't think all the risk should fall on the angler." - are you suggesting the angler and lake owner share the loss? This whole situation is now a sheet sandwich and somebody has got to eat it. Given you don't think it should be the angler then you obviously think it should be the lake owners.
Frustrated contracts: May 2020 article referring to the former lockdowns and travel bans when it WAS illegal to travel. During this period (3 months of our 7 month season) we, like many others, swallowed the poo sandwich and deferred and credit noted all bookings. Not a drama this year, but won't be much fun without the income next year. Unlike some, we have eaked out our money and also deferred the balance payments, so we have a fighting chance next year. FWIW also, for properly registered French lakes, French consumer law protected French Tourism and allowed for credit notes to be issued and not refunds, so your clever barrister is wrong. The current situation is NOT a frustrated contract, the contract can be fulfilled and it is legal to travel. The problem is that for some anglers (not all) it isn't desirable to travel due to the sting in the tail of quarantine.
I don't really agree on the point of insurance companies currently "not" paying out,, They might, they might not. The insured party could argue that they are following Govts. "only essential travel advice" and therefore have no option but to suspend their holiday. I think an insurer who is paid "to take the risk" might struggle to argue against that.
"Hope something similar doesn't happen to you in future?" It already has mate! I've already bitten the bullet and lost all the money for close to 100 fishing holidays so far, how many have you lost? one?
The reality is that this is fresh and raw, people are upset that they might lose their money. What is sure is that the situation is likely to change and (hopefully) become more clear. There's already talk about re-entry testing 3 days before return travel and, if its negative, you go on as normal. I REALLY must stress how important it is that anglers lobby their local MP to make Govt. realise that the quarantine is a blunt tool and to the detriment of the travelling public and to the holiday trade generally.
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In reply to Post #55
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In reply to Post #53
Totally agree!
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In reply to Post #54
The places that are being offered at short notice that I have seen are where the original people have confirmed that they are not able to go due to the quarantine regulations. I don´t think any genuine lake operator would advertise spaces on a speculative basis that people might not turn up for their bookings, how would that help the situation? 
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In reply to Post #48
I don't think they would offer someone else's space if fully paid up for fear of double booking.
Until the original booking doesn't show, it's taken.
Some lucky enough to still be able to travel may find the lake quieter than usual though.
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In reply to Post #52
Here is a tip for all those planning any type of trip abroad in the future. And for those who can time travel back to 2019..... piece of mind for 2020 trips.
When you book your trip, make sure you buy your holiday insurance at that time. That way your contract with the insurance company is in black and white. You will be covered for everything stated in that contract.
Booking abroad since March has become a lottery. Anyone doing so should know the risk involved and either accept it for what it is or not bother book in the first place. People who booked prior to March 2020 or in 2019 and did not have travel insurance in place for this year's trip have no one to blame but themselves I'm sorry to say. Things change. You need to protect your hard earned. As do fishery owners, as do insurance companies.
French fishery owners have done nothing wrong. Why should they foot the bill? We as customers should ensure we are protected with adequate insurance, bought when we book our trip. Buying it later is foolish and risky. Just think about it. If the fishery owner had to write the year off because of repaying 6 months of bookings, he probably wouldn't be in business the year after. So we all suffer as a consequence.
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In reply to Post #47
And to the post below yours. You're missing my point. This isn't just a case of anglers not turning up for the sake of it. It's a convergence of numerous factors affecting anglers, lake owners and now ferry companies which are complex and no one's fault.
There is such a thing as a frustrated contract - see link below.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/may/22/frustrated-contracts-law-holiday-refunds-coronavirus
You kind of agreed with me by acknowledging that insurance companies aren't likely to pay out if someone decides not to go now. So, ferry/tunnel gets something for nothing, lake owner keeps his share, insurance company keeps their money, don't pay out and angler has nothing to show for his outlay?
I don't have the answer, but to say tough ****, suck it up isn't right. Hope something similar doesn't happen to you in future.
If you can't see the point I'm making, I can't help you.
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In reply to Post #50
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In reply to Post #48
Perhaps another good idea would be (subject to forum administration permission) is that anglers who are having to give up their holidays without any compensation from the venue operator should be allowed to advertise their holiday to other anglers who might wish to take over the holiday, just an idea!
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In reply to Post #48
Some are but unless the venues are paying sponsors on this forum they cannot advertise on here. I know of 1 venue which normally you cannot get on for 2 years which is offering spaces (at discounted prices) and all proceeds to be passed back to the people that have not decided to go due to UK quarantine rules.
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In reply to Post #47
One thing I dont understand is why owners are not advertising free spaces more now... There are people that can travel from uk and other countries and would be glad to get free space on lakes that are normally fully booked.
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In reply to Post #45
You said... "It's difficult and l still don't think all the risk should fall on the angler. Can fishery owners not have insurance in place for unprecedented circumstances like this in the future?".
The most readily available and routinely taken insurance policy is a Travel Insurance policy. They are sold in their millions year after year. For some reason, a lot of anglers don't think through the need for one. Forget about cancellation for a moment.. what about health cover? The cost of medical treatment in France if you are unlucky enough to have a serious accident are significant. Quite a few anglers will also travel to France without a European Health Insurance Card, again, an essential item in the traveler's health protection bag.
I think a large number of people were compensated by their policies when they were forced to cancel holidays during the lockdown but s you say "Given the current circumstances, I would be very surprised if any insurance company would payout if you are still able to travel to the lake and fish". I agree that it is unlikely that an insurer would pay out in these (the current) circumstances. There's the rub, anglers are not prevented from traveling. Why therefore should lake owners become the insurer of last resort? the final stopping point of risk and loss. YAre you suggesting shared risk?
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In reply to Post #45
Sorry but when anyone purchases a holiday the onus is on you and not the seller to purchase insurance. It is to mitigate against the risk of you not being able to attend in unforeseen circumstances. It is your risk and not the sellers. The policy has to be bought or in place at the time of holiday purchase.
The French fishing lakes are now fully open for business so there is no legal or business reason to reimburse deposits or offer new dates for non attending customers.
Previously the French lakes were closed by their Govt so owners should have reimbursed deposits or provide new dates as they could not provide the holiday as booked. My understanding is that lake owners who had properly registered with the French authorities would have received a grant to help them.
I have annual travel and medical insurance which means I am covered as soon as I book a holiday including fishing trips. If I decide not to go and it is my choice ( for example not wishing to quarantine ) I cannot claim. However, if I am advised by my Govt not to travel to a country I was booked to go to ( such as France as of today) I will be able to claim.
I have previously claimed and been paid in full on my insurance when I could not go to France on a fishing trip due to a family illness.
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In reply to Post #36
I didn't......??? . All I'm saying is these are exceptional and unprecedented circumstances and that perhaps, lake owners as well as anglers need to protect themselves at least in the future.
Do you know anyone who has successfully claimed back the cost of a fishing trip? Given the current circumstances I would be very surprised if any insurance company would pay out if you are still able to travel to the lake and fish. It's no one's fault. and I just don't think it's right the burden of risk should be placed 100% on anglers.
There's no easy solution to this and one of the things wrong with life today is we all want easy solutions to difficult problems. I'm just asking a question, that's all.
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In reply to Post #41
I think it is because people these days live in expectation of being "protected" from everything.
We have a society where there is litle understanding or acceptance of risks and or decisions, and the consequences that flows therefrom.
The population generally supported lockdown, but now that it is clear that the consequences of all of this will effect them directly, be it losing a holiday, or losing their job, I gauge that there is less support.
As I said, there s a general attitude that if its "not my fault" somebody else has to pay or make the losses good.
Some things are just nobody's fault and we all need to be grown up and look at the situation and see where the loss and consequences fall. People are generally not prepared to do that, there is an attitude that somebody is always to "blame".
Covid (or more precisely the consequences of the decions made by Governments around the works as a result of Covid) is just one of those situations where we all need to be adults and accept that we will all lose, one way or another, some more than others. Just the way it is I am afraid.
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In reply to Post #42
hope not still planning on setting off on friday morning
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In reply to Post #39
Load of nonsense....France has not yet announced any quarantine rulings for Brits and if it does happen it is likely that like last time it will be voluntary and not mandatory.
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In reply to Post #40
100%, multi billion £ insurance companies aren't a bottomless pit, nor are lake businesses. Why are they being expected to be the risk holder of last resort.?
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In reply to Post #34
And as for "insurance", again people see this as a bottomless pit of money
Insurance companies are commercial enterprises as well.
If everybody was insured against these issues then insurance companies would soon no longer exist!
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not sure if anyone has seen this ? or even if true ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHikTpZzGNA
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| | | BRB | | Posts: 1377 |  | |
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In reply to Post #35
That is what insurance is, it is protection against the unexpected.
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In reply to Post #33
It's your thread!
I'm not making it personal. You asked the question initially.
I am just giving my views.
As I have said, it's not about blame,or "right or wrong" but risk allocation. If you think about it in those terms the answer is obvious.
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In reply to Post #34
Why is it that you seem to think a fishing holiday is any different to a family holiday? If you booked a family holiday then you’d insure it wouldn’t you? That way, the risk falls on the insurer. I understand the upset and loss that some anglers may suffer but this is something the Govt. are doing to you. Some anglers are deciding to go on their trips and some less fortunate are deciding not to, probably because their circumstances don’t allow. But, simply, this is a case of somebody not turning up and leaving a lake with an empty swim that they cannot sell.
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In reply to Post #34
theres no right or wrong no one really for saw covid coming
no one would of thought of getting insurance to cover a pandemic fishery owners or anglers
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In reply to Post #32
Fair enough, l didn't know that. It's difficult and l still don't think all the risk should fall on the angler. Can fishery owners not have insurance in place for unprecedented circumstances like this in the future?
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In reply to Post #31
slayer your making it personal against me and trying to start a row with me
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In reply to Post #28
Sorry but you are wrong, there is no insurance available against fishkills.
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In reply to Post #27
You admit ringing the fishery and asking for a reschedule or your money back. You also asked if "any body else has had any problems".
In my view that indicates you see it as an entitlement to a refund or a reschedule. If not, why did you ring them and ask?
The "problem" is with the anglers now I am afraid. Whereas the previous issue with lockdown the "problem" was with the fishery.
It seems you have decided to go, probably because you couldn't get a reschedule. But the fact is you asked for one initially, then posted on here complaining it was a "problem" .
As I said, I never post on here but felt compelled to defend the fishery owners as an angler.
There are some fisheries that I am aware of that refused to reschedule or provide a refund for trips that were impossible during the lockdown. That's is also wrong.
But the fact is your trip is possible, demonstrated by the fact you are now going! So why complain?
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In reply to Post #23
Well said Paul, totally agree with you.
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In reply to Post #28
You can't insure against a fish kill. I've looked into it.
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In reply to Post #23
Good post. However, l would suggest it's not fair or equitable the angler has to take all the risk and maybe lake owners need to consider insurance for such extreme circumstances? I may be wrong but wouldn't they have insurance for a fish kill, which would also wipe out the business?
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In reply to Post #26
silver slayer i didnt moan or call or even name the fishery in question i merely asked a question
I intend to still go to france ive used my remaining hols and taking 2 shifts unpaid so I can isololate for 2 weeks
luckily myself and my mate dont need to drive to or in france so car insurance isnt a problem
i fully sympathise with the lake owners and hope none of them do lose there businesses
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In reply to Post #25
Our trip was cancelled in early June. Lost £300 deposit. But it didn't worry me .the owners have bills to pay and need food on table
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In reply to Post #23
Well said fellah,and thank you.
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In reply to Post #23
Very eloquently put 👍👍
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In reply to Post #17
I don't usually post on here, usually just read, I also do not own a lake, but I agree with oldfella.
He runs an excellent operation, I have been a few times
He has invested significantly in the fishery and its a family operatatiom. His fishery, like many (most) are not "raking it in" as anglers seem to think.
What this is really about is the allocation of risk. Lockdown prevented fishery owners providing the service. It wasn't their fault, nor the anglers, but on balance the fishery owner probably held that risk, for non delivery, of the service paid for, even if it wasn't their fault. Most have acted reasonably and rolled bookings forward. I've rolled one forward (not at oldfellas lake BTW) to next season.
However to think that a lake, which after all is a commercial enterprise, can continue to simply roll bookings forward or too provide refunds shows a complete lack of understanding of commercial reality. To openly complain about it on here beggars belief in my view!
Also the current situation is not the same as the previous. The lake CAN legally now provide the service you paid for. It just means that if you decide to enjoy that service, there are restrictions upon you that may or may not be acceptable (quarantine). That's your choice (or circumstances) if you wish not to or can not accept those restrictions.
We are back to the allocation of risk. That risk is on you the angler. Its your choice to go or not to go. The lake is open and in a position provide the service you booked and paid for. The risk or acceptance of the restrictions is on you, the angler. It's your choice to go or not to. The fact your individual circumstances prevent you so doing is not the fishery's risk.
Everybody looks at "fault" in these circumstances and immediately assumes that if they are not at fault the other party must refund. That's not the case. It is the allocation of risk, not fault that matters.
Put it this way. If you broke your leg on the Thursday before your were due to leave in an accident, and could not travel, do you seriously expect a refund or a rollover from the Fishery owner? No! That's your risk. You can choose to insure against it, or not, again your choice. If you can not "afford" to lose that money then you should have insured against such circumstances.
Moaning about French fishery owners on here in these current circumstances demonstrates a complete lack of appreciation and understanding of the facts and circumstances. French Fishery owners are not bottomless pits of money most anglers think that are. I know this because I have looked into entering in the bussiness. Indeed as a purely commercial analysis your money would be better invested elsewhere! Trust me! It's a lifestyle choice by most. As it will be (hopefully) to me some day!
On the subject of insurance, anglers who do decide to travel need to check with their vehicle insurers as well. Given the advice of the Govt to avoid non essential travel, I suspect that fully comprehensive cover on the vehicle in France will not be provided. Third party probably is. So if you have an accident your losses to your vehicle is probably not insured. Again allocation of risk. You took the decision to travel!
Just my two cents worth. No doubt most will disagree with me.
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In reply to Post #6
Well said Jim, couldn´t have put it better myself!! In some ways it is the most successful venues that will suffer most not having availability to offer customers to reschedule their holiday, really glad I am not still over there while all this is going on, not sure how I would have dealt with it or been able to afford to deal with it. All the best for the remainder of the season.
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In reply to Post #12
Fortunately for me John I always have an annual policy on the go, and as I renewed with the booking in place I am covered for about half the cost of the booking.
The others on my booking don't have cover and also not sure if they'd be covered as I am the lead and paid all our money in one go from my account.
Maybe lesson learned for the others re the insurance and maybe one to consider us all making separate payments. But hindsight is a great thing and not sure on an exclusive booking people paying separate and maybe getting their own payments covered if they were insured.
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In reply to Post #19
Maximum of 1500 euros per month
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In reply to Post #6
Were`nt the French government were giving financial assistance during the lockdown.
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In reply to Post #1
How can anglers think owners can go without income for so many months? I completelly understand what they are doing now... In first wave majority of them decided to take the loss surelly people dont think they can do that once more?
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In reply to Post #16
I fully understand and sympathise with anyone suffering from this situatuion however as you lads cannot afford to lose income the same applies to the lake owner who will lose his if you cancel. It really is a no win situation with someone going to be a loser whatever happens.
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In reply to Post #14
oldfellah i can see your point it isnt really anybodys fault but a lot of anglers maybe be putting there jobs in jepordy by choosing to come to france and then having to isolalate as were just entering what could be the biggest recession in most of our lives so with the bait i have ordered and the cost of the trip ill be almost £1000 out of pocket or risk losing my job
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| | | Boo | | Posts: 8800 |  | |
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In reply to Post #8
There is nothing stopping you going to France (at the moment) it’s just advice from the government to only travel if it’s essential, they are not saying you can’t travel. Therefore it is entirely up to the angler if they want to travel, they won’t get stopped at Dover and turned around because they are going fishing, the only thing you need to do is quarantine on your return
Lakes are open and travel is allowed so as far as the lake owners are concerned it’s business as usual and if you don’t turn up you will lose your money
Couple of my mates are due out on Cretelakes on 19th September and they had to pay the balance of their trips the other week, they asked what would happen if we had to quarantine and because of the quarantine they decided not to go. They basically said it’s tough, if you don’t pay your balance now you will lose your trips and if you decide you don’t want to quarantine on your return home so decide not to go, then they would also lose their money
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In reply to Post #13
Err....there is no problem travelling to France !
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In reply to Post #1
Hi we have had this problem lake owner cant see any problem travelling to france he is being a compete ****
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In reply to Post #11
I can tell you and from a French venue owner MOST DONT
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| | | BRB | | Posts: 1377 | | |
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In reply to Post #10
? Lots do.
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I can never understand why anglers travelling to France etc take out breakdown cover but don't take out travel insurance which includes health cover.
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| | | BRB | | Posts: 1377 | | |
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In reply to Post #8
And that is why you have holiday insurance so the lake keeps your money and the insurance company reimburses you. Everyone is happy.
Trouble is the insurance companies have decided because its a pandemic they can opt out but keep your premium.
Thus leaving this right old mess.😭
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In reply to Post #7
Not strictly true though is it, uk advice is not to travel to France unless essential and let's face it, fishing is certainly not....... Which also negates travel insurance if you do get into the country.
For me, I'm happy to go if allowed to travel, if not allowed to travel then it's not possible to fish there.
I understand the thought of lakes not being able to afford to not lose income, however, it goes both ways, I can't afford to subsidise someone else's business for no return to me. I know it's not the lakes fault, it's also not my fault........
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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| | | Boo | | Posts: 8800 | | |
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Think you will find most lakes will have the same attitude, which I agree with.
As far as the lake owners are concerned, they are open for business. There is nothing stopping people travelling to their lakes etc. It’s the anglers choice whether to travel or not.
Basically as the angler you have 2 choices. Go and fish then quarantine upon return or don’t travel and forfeit any money already paid
When the borders were closed and it wasn’t physically possible to travel then you could understand the lake owners doing their best to try and sort something out as it was out of everyone’s control. This time though it’s down to the anglers own decision
To put it another way, would you expect your money back or your trip to be moved at any other time just because you decided you don’t fancy it?
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In reply to Post #4
I think it is worth considering that from a fishery owners point of view the situation is more complex than it may seem. Firstly most have weathered winter with no income at all and then suffered the consequences of the big lock down. That resulted in complete loss of earnings for the period ending from the start of the season up to a couple of weeks ago. Any money paid into a French registered business will already have had to be declared and tax/cotisations of at least 23% paid. Fish feed, nettings, aeration, gravel and hardcore plus equipment purchases will still have been made to safeguard the environment and fish stocks. In our case £4500 has been spent in the last month alone on aeration upgrades. During the major lockdown many fisheries either refunded or carried payment made over to a future booking. In our case we have lost £45,000 income in that period. We felt it was right to carry the burden of that loss as anglers were unable to visit through border/lake closures. The situation now is that at last we can take anglers back and start to receive an income from the business for the latter part of the season. The lakes are open, the border is open and business is 'as usual'. If anglers decide not to come over due to possible loss of income on their return it is wrong to expect the fishery to absorb that cost. It is easy to regard lake owners as rich kids that just suck the cash from the poor angler year on year however the truth for most lakes in France is very, very different. In the last week or so I have been speaking to numerous lake owners in France that are struggling financially due to this years events. There is no doubt that some will not survive and others, like ourselves will be seeing the financial loss for several years to come. Remember 15 weeks bookings carried over to next year means 15 weeks of income that we will not receive in 2021. Most of us lake owners are family people that took a life decision to move to France and sink their savings, house sale, etc into their of having their own carp fishery. We are not wealthy, we are passionate about our fisheries and value our customers highly however we cannot (not will not) afford to take the financial hit of cancelled booking when we are open for 'business as usual'
I have stuck my head above the parapet on behalf of all lake owners over here and have no doubt that the usual crowd will villify me for dong so....thats life !!
Oh, by the way.....we have had just the one cancellation and look like enjoying a good second half to the season so no sour grapes from this old chap.
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In reply to Post #1
This is a really difficult situation for fishery owners and customers alike, The trouble for fishery owners is if they carry over every holiday to next year they essentially looking at losing the best part of a years income!! As for anglers the other thing to be careful of if you do decide to travel then quarantine/isolate comes into play, I would read the small print on any travel insurance you have as i believe that you may not be covered, All in all its a bloody mess 
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In reply to Post #3
As a starter for ten, pascale of goncourt has apparently posted a video on Facebook stating unable to move bookings and won't refund. Seemingly close to losing the business, which for such a solidly booked complex is hard to believe.
Although I've had zero contact from them or updates as a person with a live booking with them for this year and next.
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In reply to Post #1
Not re book? Cant be surely! If that's the case give them crapm as that is disgusting and name and shame them
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In reply to Post #1
That has got to be wrong surely ?
I would of thought they would have to give the customer one option, or the other, or both, but not NO CHOICE !!
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Im due to go france on 4th sept so deciding not going would be the best idea because of the isolation rang the fishery to either reschedule trip or cancel and get money back
was told they wouldnt reschedule or give money back
has anyone else had any problems
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Venues (Foreign)