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American Riots
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Butterbean35

Posts: 765

#562 15 Jun 2020 at 3.18pm

In reply to Post #557
Hi Greekskii,

Your post is, in more detail, pointing out some of the social problems facing US blacks in inner cities that I've been saying is keeping them in social deprivation, and immersed in a victim culture.
As for the causes and reasons for it, I pointed out in previous posts that the welfare system encourages father absence and the increase, now of 70% , in mother only families living on welfare.
I also pointed out that most cities with large inner city black communities have been governed by Democrat politicians for decades, with little improvements to the problems that blacks face. They are mostly, the cities which harbour most of the 10 million+ illegal immigrants that compete with blacks for jobs. It's also worth noting that Democrats rely on 90% of the black vote in elections.
I also pointed out that, since being in office, Trump with the help and advice of the black Senator, Tim Scott have together, instigated policies directly for improvements to black and ethnic communities, the most important being the Opportunity Zones Legislation, which has raised 75 billion dollars of private funding, being invested in 1000s of designated poor areas across the US. Look back at my post 191 to see the other improvement policies. Remember that, before coronavirus, Trump's economic policies had raised economic growth and low ethnic unemployment to record levels.
Re prisons, Trump has introduced the 1st Step Act, which released 1000s of blacks imprisoned by the 1994 Crime Bill, which was introduced by the Clinton administration.
It's good to see that policies have been introduced that are addressing the problems of ethnic minorities, but it won't be a quick fix because real change takes years to come into effect.

BB.

Tinhead

Posts: 16283

#561 15 Jun 2020 at 2.45pm

In reply to Post #554
It�s a stalemate because neither will be willing to change unless the other attitude does.

now if approached I will not give them the time of day
That doesn't help does it?
My youngest daughter got in trouble with the police, said she was sorry and attended YOS what would have happened if she had kicked off?

The following link is not meant to offend but sounds like this woman is ready to make a change

LINK

ocelot

Posts: 1802

#560 15 Jun 2020 at 2.42pm

In reply to Post #558
Neurotic rambling again

fishie

Posts: 1744

#559 15 Jun 2020 at 2.20pm

In reply to Post #554
Are you saying the trust in the police is nil in the UK or the USA?

Because if the former I would dispute this fact and would ask for your evidence for this. If it�s the latter fair enough as I don�t have enough knowledge or evidence to dispute this.

This is the problem in all this people using google, MSM, YouTube and other influenced stories and their spin on statistics. 😡 trying to convince everyone they are right.

Butterbean35

Posts: 765

#558 15 Jun 2020 at 2.01pm

In reply to Post #555
Hi Ocelot,

You can argue about the semantics if it pleases you.
What I find odd, is that you follow me around the forum looking for flaws in my posts.
It seems to give you pleasure if you think you have found one.
I wonder why you hardly ever put your hat in the ring and post your own opinions.
Rather than standing on the sidelines holding people's coats.

BB.

Greekskii

Posts: 3069

#557 15 Jun 2020 at 1.55pm

In reply to Post #556
You�re forgetting about socially engineered poverty. Keeping the poor poor, sadly majority black, why? Racial inequalities over time. Getting the poor people to fight each other, why? A life of crime due to the realities of �getting out� being restricted. Poor schooling, no support systems, mum needs help with the bills and your 14 and can�t work but you can get good money dealing so you do it, along with peer pressure or being groomed. You get immersed in a life of crime as a child. They don�t know better. You sell drugs for some local dealer (black probably) and his supplier? The one with no risk and all the big profit? Probably white. (Based on anecdotal evidence). Child gets caught and has a criminal record before their 16th birthday. Life prospects severely hampered due to lack of education and now a criminal record.

Also look at incarceration in America. There is more black people in prison for small amounts of drug possession than there is for murder, rape and gun violence put together. (FYI this is pre weed being legal, yet those already in prison remain there) yet the amount of white people in for the same? Nowhere near. Why? Private prisons. No one cares about the poor black kid locked up for a bit of weed, but they would the middle classed white kid. It happens here to an extent now private prisons exist.

Butterbean35

Posts: 765

#556 15 Jun 2020 at 1.32pm

In reply to Post #550
Hi Mal,

Yes, you are correct in that I disagree with most of your post and that there is little point in going back and forth.
However, I think it useful to point out that you misunderstand my opinion and reasoning.
As I've said, I follow US politics on line and US social life in general, because I like and admire in many ways, their enthusiasm and optimism at the cutting edge of the progress of western democracy.
Your statement that the problem that US inner city blacks face is simply that of oppression and suppression is a gross oversimplification of the multiple problems they face.
Do you honestly think that their problems of welfare dependent poverty, father absence, bad schooling,
gang culture and crime, don't play a major part in their predicament? They are as capable as any ethnic group, of taking a responsible and respectable place in mainstream society, if given the opportunity.
Any ethnic group, creed or race would be trapped in that sort of social deprivation and be largely unable to ' raise their game ' and go on to reach their full potential, without a decent start in life that a stable family brings and the opportunity that a good education gives to aim towards a meaningful life.
Your racial oppression only argument is partly flawed by the fact that millions of ethnic minorities and legal immigrants lead successful lives, with self confidence and without racial impediment. They see themselves as Americans first and not as ethnic minorities grouped by identity politics into tribal groups.
1000s of them go on to positions of high office, senators, state governors, city mayors, congressmen and women, even to become president and in all the professions and academia.
How would this be possible if the US was as racist as you claim? Of course, racism exists and all races are guilty of it, and there are plenty of race baiters who deliberately exaggerate It.
I care as much as you about the inequalities in our Western democracies and believe that, if those affected were encouraged by policy or whatever means, to adopt familial responsibility and a work ethic and the importance of good education, then they would realise their potential and take their place in mainstream society in a position of relevance. People of all races, who lead successful, meaningful lives, have the self confidence and social standing to reject all forms of victimhood, because they are living proof that anyone in western democracies can rise above it, given the opportunity.

BB.

ocelot

Posts: 1802

#555 15 Jun 2020 at 1.07pm

In reply to Post #544
At last! Next time you try to rewrite history with your spin on it get the facts right at least. Call him what you like he was an a*******e

Greekskii

Posts: 3069

#554 15 Jun 2020 at 1.03pm

In reply to Post #553
Yes but the issue being that the trust in the police force is NIL. And negative experiences build up a resentment and ruin respect.
I�ve mentioned before that I�ve had a number of bad experiences with the police whilst being innocent and now if approached I will not give them the time of day. The distrust for black people of the police force will exist until there is change. It�s a stalemate because neither will be willing to change unless the other attitude does.

Tinhead

Posts: 16283

#553 15 Jun 2020 at 12.45pm

In reply to Post #552
Ok so black people are statistically going to commit more crime because there are have been and are being treated unfairly, I get that but when they are caught by the police all they have to do is go quietly, resist arrest and there will be consequences. I understand that blacks can be unfairly be pulled over when they are innocent but causing a scene may get you into the same trouble.
So change needs to be on both sides or more to the point attitudes must change on both sides.

Greekskii

Posts: 3069

#552 15 Jun 2020 at 12.20pm

In reply to Post #551
Not every policeman has guns here however plenty of criminals do. Should we introduce them as standard?

End of the day he was shot in the back. Now if you watch the footage he does turn and aim the tazer but the policeman already has the gun pulled and aimed at him. He doesn�t fire it and runs off and then gets shot. If he�d been shot as he aimed The tazer at them it would be a smidgen more understandable. But he was shot after he lowered it and ran.

scozza

Posts: 17132

#551 15 Jun 2020 at 11.16am

In reply to Post #548
The cops will have extensive training is the use of Tazer. You have to have a license over here. As for the comment dont let anybody take it off you is nonsense. Anything can happen in a real life situation and it does. A powerful man against a weaker man, easy, add a drink or drug fuelled rage, no contest.

There is a precedence to set here. Is it OK for everybody to snatch a Tazer or gun and point it at a cop or should we wait until they are shot. is it OK for everybody to run away, no, again it sets a precedence, everybody would do it

The shooting was probably wrong but in the heat of battle anything can happen. The trouble is now is that a few million eyes are dissecting every single micro second

Difficult one but if cops did not have guns they would not shoot people but while ever criminals have guns they should fight fire with fire for me.

The data about cop kills below is enough said for me. I would want to deal with people like that, no way

mal

Posts: 8910

#550 15 Jun 2020 at 9.55am

In reply to Post #543
Morning BB

let me clarify - you are missing the point with your continued insistence of making sure you tell us it was a Democrat who was in charge when slavery / oppression / racism is mentioned. It doesn't bloody matter - racist is racist whatever party they represent. I mean, God forbid we should suggest a Republican president is racist... where might we get that idea....?

As for naive and insulting, your suggestion that it's simply a question of black americans 'raising their game' is both. The 'game' is fixed and the odds are stacked in favour of white america which has built it's wealth on centuries of black oppression. The american dream that you have previously stated is there for all is a myth. Not all americans have the same dream - I'm pretty sure Dr King's dream is not the same as your beloved Trump's....

If I can use a race (no pun intended) as an analogy. The 'finish line' is fixed - but white america (and Britain to a lesser but still noticeable extent) is starting much further along the track than black america. Yes there is a complex history to it - but the single, simple underlying factor is that of black oppression and suppression. It's easy to say that it's because 'they are criminals' or 'they need to work harder' and 'we all have the same chances' when speaking from a more advantaged position. but it's just not true - in america or in britain.

my suggestion that you are trying to excuse this is based solely on what you choose to post - 'facts and figures' that look to excuse it. I'm simply commenting on what I read and how it appears. the facts and figures you post and the videos you suggest have a bias to them - either consciously, or you simply don't see it (which I doubt because you seem more intelligent than that).

white america making excuses is part of the problem. those in power need to change for any 'game' to be fair.

I'm sure you won't agree with most / all of this and there's little point in us going back and forth.

Can i suggest a very good film that explores a lot of the background to this from perhaps a different perspective?
Ava DuVernay's multi award winning documentary film '13th'.

Have a good day all

Greekskii

Posts: 3069

#549 15 Jun 2020 at 7.43am

In reply to Post #548
Yes I think the point being made is that they used lethal force on a non-lethal threat. He was running away and had a taser which is non-lethal. I�m sire they are trying to make a number of points with this case. One key one being if someone points a taser at you it�s not okay to shoot them dead. Can only imagine that would be a dangerous message if it was seen as okay.

Guy was on a mad one but still a number of other ways to apprehend him. Not to say it was stone cold murder due to race though. More likely it was a twitchy cop that probably shouldn�t be in the field if they get nervous.

noj

Posts: 11459

Social photographer...

#548 14 Jun 2020 at 11.30pm

In reply to Post #546
I see your point, the bloke was obviously nuts, but it goes without saying if you�re armed don�t let anybody you intend to harm disarm you.
New info. and video shows he was actually shot in the back as he ran away and the local chief of police has quit
link


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