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   Old Thread  #88 31 Jul 2020 at 2.25pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #87
I always wonder that and smile when you see manky bottles going for unbelievable amounts of money....
I used Nutrabaits N Butyric Acid quite a bit in the late 80ís early to mid 90ís, that stunk to high heaven, found the bottle in the garage the others year, and it had lost a lot of its pungency but still smelt stronger than the stuff been touted about on the market now
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   Old Thread  #87 30 Jul 2020 at 9.29pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
The Nash frozen Scopex Squid still smell like the old scopex I remember once they have sweat up a bit in the bucket.

I donít get the original bottles of flavour thing. Surely chemical flavours are volatile by nature and therefore degrade over time. A 20 year old bottle of flavour might smell the same to our weak human noses, but Iíd be very surprised if they still measured in any way similar to when they were made.
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   Old Thread  #86 30 Jul 2020 at 8.13pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
Iím currently using a mix of three Scopex flavours in my specials, Blakeís , DT and feedstim plus NBA
Now they are over flavoured as they are used as singles etc. They smell lovely but not like the original Scopex, more like coconut cream (read Cell) similar but not the same
Any way I made some the other day and inadvertently left the dropper in the draining sink, the next morning the kitchen smelt just like the original Scopex, warm buttery and one of those fragrances you canít help but sniff, So maybe just sniffing the bottle is giving a slightly false smell? Just a thought!!
Iím currently awaiting some Diacetyl and Acetoin to play around with hookbait wise
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   Old Thread  #85 30 Jul 2020 at 6.09pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #83
Was it Rayners???
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   Old Thread  #84 30 Jul 2020 at 11.53am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #83
Very wise advice. In hindsight I wish that I had bought a lifetimes supply of scopex....and some of the other amazing attractors available 30 years ago!

Slightly changing the subject but, on a similar vein, I recently ordered some of my usual hooks and they arrived in an unusually sharp form. Every one was a cracker and no need for sharpening. Just in case this was a fluke batch I pronto ordered another 20 packs......just in case.
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   Old Thread  #83 30 Jul 2020 at 10.52am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #82
Like ADW sais earlier it was defo JB who passed the original to Rod,the company who made up the liquid was based near Croydon and it worked on the reaction of milk lactones via a dairy connection.
The closest today will either be Kennys supply or JBs Toppex and Milky1
Always remember in life and in fishing nothing lasts forever so if theres something you wish to do,go fish or try do it now........and have no regrets
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   Old Thread  #82 25 Jul 2020 at 1.22pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
BAF Have released one recently. Theyíve admitted itís not the same but close
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   Old Thread  #81 25 Jul 2020 at 1.20pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #76
Would that drop of something be Diacetyl I wonder?
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   Old Thread  #80 25 Jul 2020 at 1.08pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #77
Well he already does TM1 which is a very scopex like flavour. Apparently Kenny gates has the original scopex and uses it in his bait range.
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   Old Thread  #79 24 Jul 2020 at 9.15pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #76
Fair play mate, straight from the horses mouth. I always thought it was pukka salmon that John gave to Rod.
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   Old Thread  #78 24 Jul 2020 at 8.28pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #74
Shame Rod is still not here
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   Old Thread  #77 24 Jul 2020 at 6.53pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #76
If that is true, do you think John Baker will bring out the 'original scopex' or do you think there is some business agreement preventing him doing so ?

The other thing is... are those key liquids & drops no longer available to source, even for JB ?

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   Old Thread  #76 24 Jul 2020 at 5.59pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #66
To be even clearer (and I've mentioned this more than a few times!) it was in fact John Baker who discovered the scopex blend and then passed it over to Hutchy one drunken night at the lakeside. I know this for a fact as me and John had a detailed phone conversation about scopex. He told me that he knew an old chemist who mixed up the formula but it didn't smell like scopex until one drop of a certain liquid (which I don't know) was added and then left over night. It was only then that it would have the very distinctive scopex flavour that we all know and love.
We have John to thank for some of the best flavours that were around including scopex, chocolate malt, monster crab, salmon etc.
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   Old Thread  #75 23 Jul 2020 at 4.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #74
Spot on mate.
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   Old Thread  #74 23 Jul 2020 at 1.41pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #73
No It wasn't
RH classics like Scopex, Monster crab, Shellfish Sense Appeal, Pukka Salmon, Chocalate Malt, Mulberry Florentine, Autumn Harvest, etc, etc, these 'changed' over the years due to ingredients no longer available, suppliers changed, EU regulations stopping you use certain things.

Nowadays my choice would be one of John Bakers close flavours like Toppex or Milky1, or Nash's version.

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   Old Thread  #73 23 Jul 2020 at 1.11pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #72
Was that a Freudian slip on the use of "killer blends".?
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   Old Thread  #72 23 Jul 2020 at 12.26pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #71
Think you will find a lot of companies are Analysing the 'the leading companies' boilie make up, and old skool/current flavours on the quiet, to see what all the fuss is about, and how the hype matches to the factual make up.

Trouble is, that due to EU regulations, a lot of the original ingredients to make up these killer blends are no longer available, Regardless of what they tell you.
Unless someone is sitting on a joblot somewhere in a warehouse.


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   Old Thread  #71 22 Jul 2020 at 10.19am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #70
Can't see the current bait companies going to that trouble tbh
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   Old Thread  #70 21 Jul 2020 at 8.56pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #67
If you really would like to know the exact formulation of flavors, you can. you don't need to to slip someone money.
You can analyse it via chromatography and other techniques.

So, I assume there are companies who done this and made a coy of it.
Maybe some even modified it. But if all chemicals would still be available for use, the flavor was still available
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   Old Thread  #69 21 Jul 2020 at 7.57pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #68
I have heard the same but going back donkeys years as stated below there was Meant to be black currant in the mix. The Nash scopex was meant to be the same as Rodís but I donít think it was, certainly the thin chemically stuff they sell now is nothing remotely like the old scopex.
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   Old Thread  #68 21 Jul 2020 at 7.03pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I Remember Kevin Nash mentioning that Scopex was a Combination of Butter, Cream and Vanilla flavours.
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   Old Thread  #67 21 Jul 2020 at 2.05pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #66
Cant believe no-one from the bait industry took the time to stop these stupid rumours and whispers and slipped him some money prior to his death to find out what can and cannot be made nowadays.

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   Old Thread  #66 21 Jul 2020 at 1.57pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #65
To be clear, Rod WAS the originator of Scopex due to it being a blend which was put together of suppliers flavours. Rod made that blend....all the others were guessing.
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   Old Thread  #65 21 Jul 2020 at 1.46pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #64
Bob Campbell always said that his RDC company was not the originator of Scopex but merely attempted to copy the RH original.


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   Old Thread  #64 21 Jul 2020 at 1.36pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #46
The original RD flavours are still available from the company who bought them out, but it's a bit more formal with a minimum order of 5 litres/ kilos now.
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   Old Thread  #63 18 Jul 2020 at 1.11pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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   Old Thread  #62 18 Jul 2020 at 12.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #61
I met Hutchy in Leslies around 88-89 and we got discussing his flavours.
The mention of Scope-X is bang on as it attracted all species,those were his words.
a close friend of mine who fished Savay with him said the original combo was rancid cream,blackcurrant and strawberry,not sure if they were esters,palatants or flavours though.i took ithis as accurate as of his close friendship to Rod at the time but only Rod would have have the true story of course,RIP.
The copied version of todays scopex in its various forms,even the Scopex No.1 sold by Nash who bought Catchum 88 from Rod is a very poor relation but obviously still works.
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   Old Thread  #61 29 Feb 2020 at 1.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #60
Butt Ringer smells like Scopex with Clove/Eugenol added. Lovely smell.
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   Old Thread  #60 29 Feb 2020 at 12.52pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #57
I first heard that in 97 wow 23 years ago.

If memory serves JB butt ringer is very similar to the original scopex
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   Old Thread  #59 27 Feb 2020 at 7.52pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #57
I will take Rodís word for it above others any day

Blackcurrent, would have never guessed that

Deffo NB in it. I have had a few versions in the past and itís always there for me
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   Old Thread  #58 27 Feb 2020 at 6.24pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #51
Swap the Pineapple for Blackcurrent plus cream and butter
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   Old Thread  #57 27 Feb 2020 at 5.34pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #52
The name came about following initial tests of the bait. It was noted that all species of fish seemed attracted by the flavour and the bait was named scope x as recognition of this.

Sounds peculiar but these were Rodís words.
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   Old Thread  #56 27 Feb 2020 at 4.50pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #52
Interesting
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   Old Thread  #55 27 Feb 2020 at 8.45am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #53
Di-acetyl has been proven to have carcinogenic properties when inhaled as a vapor - it is fine to ingest - that's my understanding of it. Nowt to do with Scopex mind..
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   Old Thread  #54 27 Feb 2020 at 8.41am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #53
I have noticed that a lot of flavour companies advertise their flavours as diacetyl free I suspect because vaping has become a good market for them
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   Old Thread  #53 27 Feb 2020 at 8.27am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #52
Diacetyl was banned in vape liquid in 2016. I don't think it is banned as a flavour.
It is hardly used in popcorn anymore because of the lung problem, but I believe it is mainly dangerous when heated (don't take my word for it)
I think the secret is in the combinations, not in a single ingredient.
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   Old Thread  #52 26 Feb 2020 at 10.26pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #51
I seem to remember an explanation that the name came about after testing various flavour combinations and RH saying that they needed to scope X for use (with x being the secret blend). I recall it being buttery as well which is why I asked earlier about diacetyl, I think this was used in popcorn flavouring but was thought to be one of the causes of 'popcorn lung'. Thought there may be a link between this and the disappearance of the original scopex.
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   Old Thread  #51 26 Feb 2020 at 9.05pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Iím happy to be wrong

For me the single most effective attractor in Scopex was NB acid. I can remember smelling some of the earlier RH stuff and the first thing that hit me was that once I found out what it was!

Somebody once posted on here

Sour

Cream

On

Pineapple

EXtract

For me it was a buttery creamy smell with a strong NB acid background scent, and I thought a bit of strawberry at the time
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   Old Thread  #50 26 Feb 2020 at 8.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #49
Yep, and the fact that they are the next best option, and can be used on 'nut ban' venues.
I'm going off topic. I Always think of Hutchy Scopex and.... Holland twenty commons.

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   Old Thread  #49 26 Feb 2020 at 7.19pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #47
One of the reasons nut baits are popular
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   Old Thread  #48 26 Feb 2020 at 7.18pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #45
The father of the lad who owns catchit was close to rod Hutchinson I believe.
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   Old Thread  #47 26 Feb 2020 at 7.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #44
It means I can use less to make my bait smell the way carp anglers want it to smell.

Exactly, more bait sales for ANY company if it smells nice to the human nose, the missus is then happy to allow your bait in the food freezer, and also catches a few carp too

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   Old Thread  #46 26 Feb 2020 at 7.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #44
I have tried so many versions of scopex and tutti and pineapple and aniseed and bunspice and squid and octopus. I now shop around as I find everyone has good ones and bad ones. Rd Campbell used to make some awesome flavours (thin, strong, alcohol flavours that you could use in hookbaits) but now they are no more I reverse engineer some and my tie with another bait maker has led me to another company who make flavours almost identical to the rd ones. Catchit make some awesome flavours though.
Has anyone ever found a scopex powdered flavour or palatant that is good?? Please pm me if you donít mind sharing?
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   Old Thread  #45 26 Feb 2020 at 7.13pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #44
That was Catchum, his first bait company.
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   Old Thread  #44 26 Feb 2020 at 7.08pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #32
For me itís a nice strong smooth smell (Iím sure the carp have no idea what Iím talking about) and it tastes ok compared to some. It means I can use less to make my bait smell the way carp anglers want it to smell. Iím sure blends did a real nice one too. Didnít catchit have ties with rod Hutchinson back in the day? My memory fades with the more flavours I smell.
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   Old Thread  #43 25 Feb 2020 at 8.41pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Gotcha - thanks
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   Old Thread  #42 25 Feb 2020 at 8.35pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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No, different stuff. Diacetyl smells like butter, diacetin does not smell much.
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   Old Thread  #41 25 Feb 2020 at 8.18pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Viking - is diacetin the same as diacetyl?
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   Old Thread  #40 25 Feb 2020 at 8.08pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #10
So trying to be on topic:

Diacetin is available. It was the carrier used in Scopex and several other R.H. flavours. According to R.H. all of the diacetin based flavour was succesful, and he concluded that it possibly was an attactant on its own ( in Carp Now And Then, 1986)
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   Old Thread  #39 25 Feb 2020 at 8.02pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Hi Greekskii,

Cam has already given a warning about locking this thread.

You coming on to just offer insults is just adding fuel to the fire.

BB.
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   Old Thread  #38 25 Feb 2020 at 7.33pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #36
dp
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   Old Thread  #37 25 Feb 2020 at 7.33pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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You guys are so funny. Stop ruining the thread with your idiocy
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   Old Thread  #36 25 Feb 2020 at 6.57pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #34
Common allergens:

cereals containing gluten Ė including wheat, rye, barley and oats
crustaceans Ė such as prawns, crabs and lobsters
eggs
fish
lupin
milk
molluscs Ė such as mussels and oysters
mustard
tree nuts Ė including almonds, hazelnuts, walnuts, brazil nuts, cashews, pecans, pistachios and macadamia nuts
peanuts
sesame seeds
soybeans
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   Old Thread  #35 25 Feb 2020 at 4.30pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #34

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   Old Thread  #34 25 Feb 2020 at 3.18pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #33
Edited. Thread has posts removed.
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   Old Thread  #33 25 Feb 2020 at 3.03pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #18
Any more allergens you'd like bringing back?

I tried to use a food grade factory for a bait project but I could not because of allergens like shrimp, soy, gluten and nuts.
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   Old Thread  #32 25 Feb 2020 at 1.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #14
What is it about the Catchit one that you prefer Keeperboy if you don't mind me asking.
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   Old Thread  #31 25 Feb 2020 at 1.09pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I'd probably go with Nash because of the connection between them even though it was a long time ago, bit of a minefield with many different versions.
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   Old Thread  #29 25 Feb 2020 at 12.42pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Turn it in or it will be yet another bait thread locked. 's
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   Old Thread  #26 25 Feb 2020 at 12.33pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #24
Less Brexit and more Bait it

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   Old Thread  #21 25 Feb 2020 at 11.45am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #20
True to form a nonsense post for a reply.
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   Old Thread  #20 25 Feb 2020 at 10.38am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #18
Hi Ocelot,

No mate, I'm just satisfied that we are bringing back our total control over the destiny of our sovereign country.

BB.
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   Old Thread  #19 24 Feb 2020 at 10.21pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #16
Thanks Ian.

We will not be seeing these again my friend as they have banned even more since 2015 like Lyral, Atranol and Chloroatranol, typically ,lilly of the valley, Oakmoss and Tree moss. They are a thing of the past and yet the bull5hite they give us that they are still the same and original recipes in our field beggers belief.
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   Old Thread  #18 24 Feb 2020 at 10.08pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #16
Any more allergens you'd like bringing back?
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   Old Thread  #17 24 Feb 2020 at 9.55pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #13
Well that confirms what I was thinking...mine isnít quite right..the aniseed in it is overpowering.
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   Old Thread  #16 24 Feb 2020 at 9.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #15
Hi Dean,

Congrats on getting the Moonfruit enz up and running.

Re your collection of perfumes, jeez, your house must smell like a tart's boudoir.

With any luck, now we are out of the EU's clutches, those flavour houses might make the original flavours again.

BB.
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   Old Thread  #15 24 Feb 2020 at 9.14pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #9
Hi Colors

For many years i have collected vintage fragrances/colognes, like 80s and 90s versions of Givenchy Gentleman . In the year 2000 the IFRA and EU banned certain ingredients like Civet and oakmoss and a whole host of other essential ingredients that were considered allergens, but they made these fragrances so special. This also included the flavour houses for the food industry where most of the original and best flavours came from. So the sad part is we will never see them replicated to the same standard as the originals. They are gone forever.
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   Old Thread  #14 24 Feb 2020 at 8.03pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #13
I have several versions
Catchit one is my favourite at the mo
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   Old Thread  #13 24 Feb 2020 at 4.06pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #6
Strange, I also have the Catchit Scopex and it isnt aniseedy at all? Its very very god though, certainly the best I have come across in recent times
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   Old Thread  #12 23 Feb 2020 at 8.24pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #9
I really donít know.

I used to have loads of catchum flavours back in the day....30 years ago now. The scopex was buttery, rich....it was sublime. Caught everywhere. I have never seen a flavour like it since. It was an attractant in its own right. The Nash stuff is meant to be the closest, but just because it smells similar, which I donít actually think it does, does not mean that it is anything like the same compound.

Some of the other catchum flavours which I really rated.....maltrex, ultra spice, tropical spice....and lobster Thermidor, that was a really good one.
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   Old Thread  #11 23 Feb 2020 at 7.38pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I got a pretty good version from abs a couple of years back. Don't think it was made available to the public but if they still have it it's worth a look. I got a half litre I've been using in corkballs.
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   Old Thread  #10 23 Feb 2020 at 7.35pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #9
Diacetin
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   Old Thread  #9 23 Feb 2020 at 7.03pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #8
Just out of interest, why isnít it the same anymore? What is it thatís not available anymore to make it like it used to be or doesnít anyone know?
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   Old Thread  #8 23 Feb 2020 at 6.09pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #7
Sadly, you are correct.
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   Old Thread  #7 23 Feb 2020 at 5.13pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
Hi Jamie none are a touch on the original Scopex hutchy brought out in the 80ís, the Nash version is nothing like the original. Shame but the reality is it was a mix formulated by hutchy so not an off the shelf attractor I seem to remember it was a product borne out of the original bream attractor. Good luck in your search but I think your looking for the holy grail of flavours which isnít available.

Michael
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   Old Thread  #6 23 Feb 2020 at 0.21am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #4
I have the catchit scopex. I donít remember the old scopex being the same...the stuff I have has a strong aniseed tone and taste to it.
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   Old Thread  #5 22 Feb 2020 at 9.26pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
The original scopex sold in little white bottles early 80s was a fantastic flavour, within a few years it had changed, i asked RH If it had at one of the shows, and he reluctantly confirmed it had, and was now being made by another flavour house, was still a great flavour though.
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   Old Thread  #4 22 Feb 2020 at 6.25pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #3
The Catchit one is much closer to the original Hutchie/Catchum one. The Nash is very different in my view. It's thinner, and has a far more harsh taste.

As regards JB's, Toppex is harsh and acidic, like a very strong version of the Nash one. Milky1 is better, but tbh, neither are like original Scopex.
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   Old Thread  #3 22 Feb 2020 at 4.07pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2
I would say the Nash one hasn't changed for at least 15 years and is the only one I would even consider using....
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   Old Thread  #2 22 Feb 2020 at 2.24pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Although not called scopex, TM1 is probably the best out there now.
I donít think hutchies or Nash are what they once were.
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   Old Thread  #1 22 Feb 2020 at 11.04am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
So then, what is the deal with this legendary flavour...

In todayís world, what is considered the best brand to use?
I seem to remember reading/hearing that this flavour is not what it once was. If so - then why?

I remember Rod Hutchison once saying that he formulated this flavour with the intent on replicating the effect that ripe/fermenting fruit has on animals specifically as fruit is turning to alcohol. He used the example of Wasps acting dopey after feeding on fermenting fruit.

The first time I used Scopex in a mix was probably over 20 years ago now and it was very special.
I do have a bottle of NashBait Scopex No.1. Is this considered the number one (excuse the pun) type of Scopex flavour on the market now?

I have also had a read up on John Bakers Toppex and TM1 flavours which both seem to be formulated on Rods original theory of having a combination of flavours to replicate a certain signal type.

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