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   Old Thread  #1089 8 Apr 2020 at 3.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1086
The EU response had been crap.

Every country was making up policy on its own. So much for all the 'EU not letting members do what they want' and 'loss of sovereignty' that the brexsiters were banging on about. No doubt if there had been a coordinated policy, it would have been used as an example of the EU telling member states what to do for the anti-EU folk.

The UK was unrestrained by bothersome EU commands in planning its response, and even refused the offer of collaborating to source more ventilators and PPE, as well as not bothering with lots of Europe wide conference calls regarding the spread of the virus. When this is over we'll be able to tell how wise that was.

Mauro Ferrari resigned as he was disappointed with how things were organised. Fair enough. Hope fully EU wide support and solidarity will help member states recover from the economic impact of all this. Nothing's guaranteed. But the performance of the EU can only improve.

Don't see what that's got to do with MPs who voted against giving NHS staff a pay rise yet lap up media coverage of them clapping the very same people who they now call heroes. That's hypocrisy on a grand scale from elected politicians, but nothing to worry about, let's move on, much more important things to worry about, eh Mr B?
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   Old Thread  #1088 8 Apr 2020 at 3.37pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1085
Hi bb

the majority of the news and media does not hold them to account as they are tory biased , the exceptions being , the guardian , mirror and independent , sky and bbc , well i don't think i need to go there do i , channel 4 is slightly better !

Public inquiry , HONESTLY , you have any faith in a public inquiry , how long does it take for the truth to come out , even when millions already know it , Hillsborough ! Leverson part II ,the historical child abuse inquiry regarding establishment and political figures that went through 3 chairs and now seems abandoned , your having a laugh , the only way that you establish the truth nowadays in the uk is by going to independent reporters and journalists , if you think you are going to get a balanced inquiry in this country you are deluded especially on something so damaging to the Tory party ! if there is one ,it will say the bare minimum , what we already know plus maybe a scapegoat chucked in for good measure , someone who will receive a nice juicy pay off , your faith in the establishment is very misguided !
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   Old Thread  #1087 8 Apr 2020 at 3.36pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1086
How about giving us your considered opinion on why the EU's head scientist, professor Mauro Ferrari and head of their European Research Council, has resigned

No. Not considered the issue.
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   Old Thread  #1086 8 Apr 2020 at 3.22pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1084
Hi Ken,

How about giving us your considered opinion on why the EU's head scientist, professor Mauro Ferrari and head of their European Research Council, has resigned for the reasons he says, of EU intransigence and refusal to release some of their Ä2 billion annual scientific research budget, to fund a comprehensive amalgam of senior scientists to coordinate a research response to the coronavirus.

BB.
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   Old Thread  #1085 8 Apr 2020 at 3.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1083
Hi Spanker,

I would imagine that, once the pandemic is over, there will be detailed studies carried out by scientific bodies to produce a detailed analysis of the whole sequence of events to assess responses and procedures and to provide lessons learned for future reference. It may even involve a public inquiry to report on the overall performance.
So what is your point in pasting news reports that only show a list of snippets of peoples opinions and presenting it as if it was a fait accompli?

BB.
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   Old Thread  #1084 8 Apr 2020 at 3.01pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Ultimate irony:

Boris himself voted against giving a reasonable pay rise to the very people who are now fighting to keep him alive.

I hope he'll have a bit more compassion when he comes back to Number 10.

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   Old Thread  #1083 8 Apr 2020 at 1.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1082
GAME OVER

It was during the school half-term holidays in February that frontline doctor Nicky Longley began to realise that early efforts to contain the disease were likely doomed.

For weeks now, doctors and public health workers had been watching out for people with flu-like symptoms coming in from China. Longley, an infectious diseases consultant at Londonís Hospital for Tropical Diseases, was part of a team that staffed a public health service helpline for those with symptoms. The plan, she said, had been to make all effort to catch every case and their contacts. And "to start with, it looked like it was working."

But then, bad news. First, on Wednesday the 19th of February, came the shock news from Iran of two deaths. Then, on Friday the 21st, came a death in Italy and a bloom of cases in Lombardy and Veneto regions. Britain has close links to both countries. Thousands of Britons were holidaying in Italy that week.

"I don't think anybody really foresaw what was happening in Italy," Longley said. "And I think, the minute everybody saw that, we thought: 'This is game over now.'"

Until then, Longley said, everyone felt "there was a chance to stamp it out" even though most were sceptical it could be done long-term. But after Iran and Italy, it was obvious containment would not work. The contact tracing continued for a while. But as the cases in London built up, and the volume of calls to the helpline mushroomed, the priority began to shift to clinical care of the serious cases. "At a certain point you have to make a decision about where you put your efforts as a workforce."

Edmunds noted that Iran and Italy had hardly reported a case until that point. "And then, all of sudden you had deaths recorded." There was a rule of thumb that, in an outbreak's early stages, for each death there were probably 1,000 cases in a community. "And so it was quite clear that there were at least thousands of cases in Italy, possibly tens of thousands of cases in Italy right then."

Amid the dreadful news from Italy, the scientists at NERVTAG convened by phone that Friday, 21st February. But they decided to recommend keeping the threat level at "moderate," where it had sat since January 30th. The minutes don't give a detailed explanation of the decision. Edmunds, who had technical difficulties and couldn't be heard on the call, emailed afterwards to ask the warning to be elevated to "high," the minutes revealed. But the warning level remained lower. It's unclear why.

"I just thought, are we still, we still thinking that it's mild or something? It definitely isn't, you know," said Edmunds.

A spokesman for the government's chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, didn't directly respond to Reuters questions about the threat level. Asked whether, with hindsight, the scientists' approach was the right one, the spokesperson said in a statement that "SAGE and advisers provide advice, while Ministers and the Government make decisions."

HERD IMMUNITY

On Sunday, March 1st, Ferguson, Edmunds and other advisers spent the day with NHS public health service experts trying to work out how many hospital beds and other key resources would be needed as the outbreak exploded. By now, Italian data was showing that a tenth of all infected patients needed intensive care.

The following day, pandemic modelling committee SPI-M produced its "consensus report" that warned the coronavirus was now transmitting freely in the UK. That Thursday, March 5, the first death in the UK was announced. Italy, which reached 827 deaths by March 11, ordered a national lockdown. Spain and France prepared to follow suit.

Johnson held out against stringent measures, saying he was following the advice of the government's scientists. He asserted on March 9: "We are doing everything we can to combat this outbreak, based on the very latest scientific and medical advice."

Indeed, the government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, SAGE, had recommended that day, with no dissension recorded in its summary, that the UK reject a China-style lockdown. SAGE decided that "implementing a subset of measures would be ideal," according to a record of its conclusions. Tougher measures could create a "large second epidemic wave once the measures were lifted," SAGE said.

On March 12 came a bombshell for the British public. Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, announced Britain had moved the threat to UK citizens from "moderate" to "high." And he said the country had moved from trying to contain the disease to trying to slow its spread. New cases were not going to be tracked at all. "It is no longer necessary for us to identify every case," he said. Only hospital cases would, in future, be tested for the virus. What had been an undisclosed policy was in the open: beyond a certain point, attempts to completely extinguish the virus would stop.

The same day, putting aside his jokey self, Johnson made a speech in Downing Street, flanked by two Union Jacks and evoking the spirit of Winston Churchill's "darkest hour" address. He warned: "I must level with you, level with the British public - more families, many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time."

For most Britons, it came as a shock. Several of the next day's newspapers splashed Johnson's words on their front pages.

Vallance, the government's chief scientific adviser, who chaired SAGE, said in a BBC interview on March 13 that the plan was to simply control the pace of infection. The government had, for now, rejected what he called "eye-catching measures" like stopping mass gatherings such as football games or closing schools. The "aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not to suppress it completely." Most people would get
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   Old Thread  #1082 8 Apr 2020 at 12.27pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1081
that's a great read
Link
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   Old Thread  #1081 8 Apr 2020 at 12.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1080
that was the last half of it , for the full report , copy n paste the link 'https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN21P1X8?fbclid=IwAR10Yt-QT7enb6e7NMR-OUdsKLHuzJijSFbs660R40HkJRzrmjC6l36zgvc
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   Old Thread  #1080 8 Apr 2020 at 12.08pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
An excellent factual report by Reuters , what an absolute fiasco 'A TIME TO PREPARE

On the evening of January 31, Boris Johnson sat before a fireplace in 10 Downing Street and told the nation, in a televised address: "This is the moment when the dawn breaks and the curtain goes up on a new act in our great national drama."

He was talking of finally delivering Brexit, or what he called "this recaptured sovereignty." Until that moment, Johnson's premiership had been utterly absorbed by delivering on that challenge.

With Brexit done, Johnson had the chance to focus on other matters the following month, among them the emerging virus threat. But leaving the European Union had a consequence.

Between February 13 and March 30, Britain missed a total of eight conference calls or meetings about the coronavirus between EU heads of state or health ministers - meetings that Britain was still entitled to join. Although Britain did later make an arrangement to attend lower-level meetings of officials, it had missed a deadline to participate in a common purchase scheme for ventilators, to which it was invited. Ventilators, vitally important to treating the direst cases of COVID-19, have fallen into short supply globally. Johnson's spokesman blamed an administrative error.

A Downing Street aide told Reuters that from around the end of January, Johnson concentrated his attention increasingly on the coronavirus threat, receiving "very frequent" updates at least once per day from mid February, either in person or via a daily dashboard of cases.

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In the medical and scientific world, there was growing concern about the threat of the virus to the UK. A report from Exeter University, published on February 12, warned a UK outbreak could peak within four months and, without mitigation, infect 45 million people.

That worried Rahuldeb Sarkar, a consultant physician in respiratory medicine and critical care in the county of Kent, who foresaw that intensive care beds could be swamped. Even if disease transmission was reduced by half, he wrote in a report aimed at clinicians and actuaries in mid-February, a coronavirus outbreak in the UK would "have a chance of overwhelming the system."

With Whitty stating in a BBC interview on February 13 that a UK outbreak was still an "if, not a when," Richard Horton, a medical doctor and editor of the Lancet, said the government and public health service wasted an opportunity that month to prepare quarantine restriction measures and a programme of mass tests, and procure resources like ventilators and personal protective equipment for expanded intensive care.

Calling the lost chance a "national scandal" in a later editorial, he would testify to parliament about a mismatch between "the urgent warning that was coming from the frontline in China" and the "somewhat pedestrian evaluation" of the threat from the scientific advice to the government.

After developing a test for the new virus by January 10, health officials adopted a centralised approach to its deployment, initially assigning a single public laboratory in north London to perform the tests. But, according to later government statements, there was no wider plan envisaged to make use of hundreds of laboratories across the country, both public and private, that could have been recruited.

According to emails and more than a dozen scientists interviewed by Reuters, the government issued no requests to labs for assistance with staff or testing equipment until the middle of March, when many abruptly received requests to hand over nucleic acid extraction instruments, used in testing. An executive at the Weatherall Institute of Molecular Medicine at the University of Oxford said he could have carried out up to 1,000 tests per day from February. But the call never came.

"You would have thought that they would be bashing down the door," said the executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. By April 5, Britain had carried out 195,524 tests, in contrast to at least 918,000 completed a week earlier in Germany.

Nor was there an effective effort to expand the supply of ventilators. The Department of Health told Reuters in a statement that the government started talking to manufacturers of ventilators about procuring extra supplies in February. But it was not until March 16, after it was clear supplies could run out, that Johnson launched an appeal to industry to help ramp up production.

Charles Bellm, managing director of Intersurgical, a global supplier of medical ventilation products based outside London, said he has been contacted by more than a dozen governments around the world, including France, New Zealand and Indonesia. But there had been no contact from the British government. "I find it somewhat surprising, I have spoken to a lot of other governments," he said.

Countering such criticism, Hancock, the health minister, said the government is on track to deliver about 10,000 more ventilators in the coming weeks. One reason Britain was behind some countries on testing, he said, was the absence of a large diagnostics industry at the outbreak of the epidemic. "We didnít have the scale."

GAME OVER

It was during the school half-term holidays in February that frontline doctor Nicky Longley began to realise that early efforts to contain the disease were likely doomed.

For weeks now, doctors and public health workers had been watching out for people with flu-like symptoms coming in from China. Longley, an infectious diseases consultant at Londonís Hospital for Tropical Diseases, was part of a team that staffed a public health service helpline for those with symptoms. The plan, she said, had been to make all ef
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   Old Thread  #1079 8 Apr 2020 at 11.32am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1077
I'm not in Merseyside. I've been working on the hospital to help get the first 2 floors finished for Easter. My son's firm was short of electrical engineers, so I got intouch and started with them til it's done.
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   Old Thread  #1078 8 Apr 2020 at 8.58am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1072
It's all guess work this is a new virus they are are doing there best they can trying to stay positive there only human the only thing that should be done is stop aid to China now
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   Old Thread  #1077 7 Apr 2020 at 11.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1076
Hi Ocelot,

It seems the new cases nationally are leveling off, which the chief medical officer said was, hopefully an indication that the peak would be soon and then to decline.
If you're in Liverpool, I suppose it's likely big cities will remain as hot spots of infections.
That's good news re the new hospital. I guess you can use all the capacity you can get.

BB.
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   Old Thread  #1076 7 Apr 2020 at 10.41pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1069
It's not slowing where I live. Cases are rising and still only testing hospital admissions. Bad news today was known a while ago unfortunately.
Good news is we're on target to get the state of the art New Royal Hospital Liverpool handed over to the NHS on Thursday. Not bad for some lazy Brits eh Spinbowler 🇬🇧
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   Old Thread  #1075 7 Apr 2020 at 9.52pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1073
We all lose people close to us throughout our lives just like my children will lose me one day.Its how nature works we are born and we die,what happens in between is what you make of it.Im not scared by death as it is something I can not control so why sit and worry about it.Live everyday likes it's your last and enjoy every bit of it along the way.Im worried for my mum and when she passes I will be devastated but my mum would not want me sitting around for weeks crying,she would want me to get on with my life.Its just how we are,life is too short.
Peace and Love.
Oh yeah I hope he survives
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