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   Difibelator units on the lakes
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   Old Thread  #39 14 Mar 2019 at 11.24am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #38
off course I am not saying every small pond should have one we are talking within reason here. Point about having them in the car is not that crazy one, price would probably drop to 250... as you say it comes down to cost/benefit... personally it does make me think and paying 1k for it is nothing in comparison that it can save my life or life of one of my family members... better get one!
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   Old Thread  #38 14 Mar 2019 at 11.03am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #36
I'm not saying you are wrong. mayb the big busy fisheries like linear and bluebell etc should provide a defib, but the smaller ones with far fewer people on I'm not sure they ever would. I have been on the bank for past 3 nights and had one person come into my swim to say hello.Really for 1k everyone should caŕry one in their car mayb??? That would save thousands of lives as you are never far away from one then.
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   Old Thread  #37 14 Mar 2019 at 10.59am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #35
That's what risk assessments are for. How many people are having heart attacks on the lakeside per year? How many people contract weils disease per year? Perhaps there should be hand sanitising stations in each swim. It's a good idea but it's a question of cost to benefit ratio.
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   Old Thread  #36 14 Mar 2019 at 10.56am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #35
IMO fishery owners that cant afford 1k for defibrilator better close their shop down!
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   Old Thread  #35 14 Mar 2019 at 10.47am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #32
Everything has a cost to benefit..... of course a defib situated on every street corner and in every car and in every house would save thousands of lives........ But why has thus not been done???? Because of cost implications
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   Old Thread  #34 14 Mar 2019 at 10.41am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #28
You should always start chest compressions immediately and the defibrilator should be retrieved, unpacked, etc by a second person if available. If a second person is not present then start and continue with chest compressions until a second person/medical assistance arrives.

Even in hospital where the defibs are kept on every ward we still start CPR/chest compressions whilst asking someone else to put out an arrest call and retrieve the defib/arrest trolley. Whilst CPR may not save the person in its own right it provides some blood flow (oxygen) to the brain in the interim.

As mentioned below a defib will not shock a patient who has a normal heart rate or someone with no electrical activity (the flat line patients on TV) as it will not restart a heart. It instead delivers a shock when there is un-coordinated or irregular activity (normally ventricular fib) which is what you see in most cardiac arrests.
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   Old Thread  #33 14 Mar 2019 at 10.40am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #31
That's the situation I was thinking of, one unit on a 10+ acre water, even running full pelt could cost 10 mins easy
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   Old Thread  #32 14 Mar 2019 at 10.38am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #31
I'm not by any means saying they are a bad idea however if you were a fishery owner and had to weigh up the cost to the benefit. I'm not sure I would be investing in one. - WTF? it doesnt cost that much!! FFS yes better buy coffie machine for anglers that is more benefitial especially if you charge for coffie!
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   Old Thread  #31 14 Mar 2019 at 10.35am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #28
if def is far away yes, calling for help and compress would be the way forward I believe, somebody correct me if I am wrong.
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   Old Thread  #30 14 Mar 2019 at 10.32am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #28
No I'm not saying that at all. Someone in cardiac arrest will not be brought round by just compressions. They need a defib to stop their heart and hopefully when it restarts it will be in a normal rhythm. What I am saying is that from my experience unless you have someone giving compressions and a defib on them extremely early on they have minimal chance of survival. So put that on a lake most people are in their own swim... how long before they get discovered..? Then how long before someone gets the defib? Then how long before compressions are done etc..... I'm not by any means saying they are a bad idea however if you were a fishery owner and had to weigh up the cost to the benefit. I'm not sure I would be investing in one.
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   Old Thread  #29 14 Mar 2019 at 10.27am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #26
20 years of casualty you must almost be qualified as a advanced paramedic anyway make sure you keep them biros and duct tape handy you never know
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   Old Thread  #28 14 Mar 2019 at 10.22am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #24
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that should you find someone having a heart attack with no-one else around, chest compression would be the only way to give them a chance rather than a dash round to get the defib.

I hope the lakes installing these are circulating this type of info
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   Old Thread  #27 14 Mar 2019 at 10.15am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #26
Don't forget the vodka
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   Old Thread  #26 14 Mar 2019 at 10.14am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #25
Are you trying to tell me that the twenty years of medical knowledge Iíve got from watching casualty was all for nothing?

Iím just waiting for the day that I have to do a roadside tracheotomy with just a biro and a roll of duct tape
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   Old Thread  #25 14 Mar 2019 at 10.09am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
And yes they are completely idiot proof the machine talks you thro where to put the pads along with picture to show you. And a shock will not be able to be delivered unless the defib picks up certain rhythms. Which is why compressions are so important as you cannot shock someone who is flat lining( unlike what the show in the movies)
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