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   Fermenting Boilies
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   Old Thread  #415 5 Feb 2019 at 2.19pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #409
I have found that the 'mouldy' bait I have shown had a very brief effective catching life, usually no more that 12-18 hours dependant on air temperature. I freeze mine when they reach the stage shown in my pix. I should stress that these days I prefer to make and use bait as fresh as possible but part of the process always involves freezing at some stage.

Alan: Would love to read your take on this thread.
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   Old Thread  #414 5 Feb 2019 at 1.31pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #405
But is it the mould that's attractive or the fact the bait is paler/white and more visible?
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   Old Thread  #413 4 Feb 2019 at 7.36pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #408
ALL edible food grade oils consist essentially of the same class of chemicals “ gentle” heat will have no significant affect on any of these oils and certainly provide no improvement in terms of “ attraction” or "solubility"

By the way ,correct me if I’m wrong; but didn’t your web site mention cooking oils to a “ massively high temperature before it goes into the bait"
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   Old Thread  #412 4 Feb 2019 at 4.49pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #409
Thanks. Interesting!
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   Old Thread  #411 4 Feb 2019 at 4.38pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #410
Thanks.
I guess this is unpublished research?
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   Old Thread  #410 4 Feb 2019 at 4.29pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #403
Yes referencing was carried out using existing data from related chemical testing and where it was considered necessary actual testing was also employed

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   Old Thread  #409 4 Feb 2019 at 4.24pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #399
And in reply to 400, 401

Theoretically it could be either, for salts and sugars etc it depends on the chemical make up of the boilie , moisture content, degree of /type of porosity and prevailing air conditions.

In terms of moulds generally all they need is oxygen ,moisture , warmth, preferably a low air flow,and a source of nutrients( boilie). Therefore given the right conditions and absence of any mould inhibitors they should be able to form on any boilie. Some spices / essential oils are effective mould inhibitors e.g. Cinnamon

The presence of an " attraction sweet-spot" does sort of marry up with the presence of mould as there will be a point in the nutrient breakdown process ( by the mould) where free amino acids are present, these eventually will be " consumed" dismantled by the mould.

Observed through a magnifying glass sugars, salts etc will have a crystalline regular appearance, moulds will appear "lumpy" and irregular like very small mushrooms. Again under a magnifying glass place a drop of warm water on the deposit ,sugars salts etc will dissolve readily moulds will disperse much slower.

Most deposits I have seen have been associated with moulds
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   Old Thread  #408 1 Feb 2019 at 1.48am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #402
Why thank you kind sir. It's great that some lush information is being written here by all.

I'm glad you came back MM. I'll reply soon properly, it's very late. No one is heating oils to smoke point mate. Maybe it's just what the research said, it was not what i said. You can heat something vigorously to smoke point, or you can heat something very gently to a much, much lower maximum temperature. And every variation in between. I just used chip fat and cars, as an example. I never said I was cooking oils like that. I said that I heated oils. This does have a big difference with some oils. I've not even tried it on many, but I found one it works incredibly well on. I can prove it to, but it's giving away to much to do that.

Gently heating certain oils, does have a good effect MM. I've never tried to smoke point. That would be a bit silly.
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   Old Thread  #407 29 Jan 2019 at 1.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #405
There is nothing wrong with following the known preferences and facts with baits, boilies, HNV, particles and everything inbetween.

But you can often learn more, going against the norm yourself, or watching close friends results, you know searching, learning and going down into multiple dead ends, as sometimes you will have a light bulb eureka moment.
Then things get turns on it's head. And people go WOW.

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   Old Thread  #406 29 Jan 2019 at 1.11pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #405
Some persons refreeze boilies multiple times...
Some other ones are arguing which mould is better: white, green or black.
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   Old Thread  #405 29 Jan 2019 at 11.44am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #404
Bait is such a funny bussiness in one thread people are saying you shouldnt even refreeze boilies in other it is said it is the best when it goes white...
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   Old Thread  #404 28 Jan 2019 at 7.45pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #397
Hi MM,
There are two types of oils may be regarded concerning the bait:” inside” oils and “outside” oils. The first ones are the oils of ingredients of the bait, nuts for example. The second one is the oil the bait might be cooked in.
I guess it may be some difference of the reaction of these two types oils under cooking one can imagine.

Another point is the type of cooking : heating in an oven, microwaving, roasting or boiling. It was the temperature of 240 C mentioned at the site of SHB applied to the bait as the final treatment.. Most of oils havet the “smoke poin”t below this value but not all. So it is possible to cook baits in oil below it’s smoke point.
Then there is a time of heat treatment. Short (shock) treatment as scolding also may be taken into consideration.

We (humans) like carcinogens (chips, fries....). What if these harmful chemicals are palatable for carp from the gustatory point of view? Something is telling me that nobody has tested this issue yet...

It might be not the oils themselves but their byproducts or modified ingredients in contact with oils as well.

I’m not a chemist and not a cook either so it’s just my rough and unqualified thoughts.
FPM
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   Old Thread  #403 28 Jan 2019 at 7.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #397
Hi MM,
Have there been tests performed on how carp react to these substances that is formed? I see some classes of substances being mentioned both as possible attractants and deterrents but have not not found any published research.

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   Old Thread  #402 28 Jan 2019 at 6.37pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #398
Hi Ken, hope you are well got to say this is the most interesting thread on here for a long time, the kid has definitely livened it up
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   Old Thread  #401 28 Jan 2019 at 4.52pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #400
I've also always believed that the white coating on baits is bacteria/wild yeasts. These imo secrete enzymes onto the bait to hydrolise proteins/carbs/fats into it's component parts allowing the bacteria to feed and multiply.
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