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Butterbean35 is not surfing CarpForum at the moment
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   Old Thread  #53 31 Dec 2018 at 9.49pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #51
Hi PJ,
We seem to have some misinterpretation and misinformation to iron out.
My ref to who you are and the F/W forum was in explanation as to how I know you have a commercial interest to protect. With ref to the F/W forum, I recently joined it, but have never posted on it and am almost certain that MM hasn't posted on it, or is even a member. I only came across the thread in question when I was surfing the threads for interesting topics. MM and I have never spoken or posted about your business.
I have no interest in hiding my identity and my forum profile has my full name and Gmail address if anyone wishes to contact me. Both MM and I came on here from the black forum after it closed down. It was called the B/F because it used black pages with white type. Its actual name was Carp-forums .com.
In my last post, my ref to intimidation was my view on maintaining forum etiquette and was certainly not a veiled ref to you. I was agreeing with you about being polite.
I didn't actually say that carp aren't attracted to sugars. I referred to that paper re sucrose palatability and simply asked NW, who I know from the B/F, in what way do sugars influence chemoreception. I didn't ask you the question because we both know you don't know the answer.
It's just a simple, genuine question. As I said in another post, I maintain an open mind and if sugars do induce a feed response then they must trigger some of the carps receptors.
BB.

Happy new year to you too.
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   Old Thread  #52 31 Dec 2018 at 8.21pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2
I'm beginning to wish I never resurrected this thread
Glad I just buy a good quality bait and use it
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   Old Thread  #51 31 Dec 2018 at 7.32pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #50
I now know who you both are to BB. Friendly informative pm's from strangers. And your reference to that forum. I only ever posted on there, because you lot were discussing my business. My friend was a moderator, and told me of you, and probably MistyM and pals talking about my stuff. I also hear your from this much spoken of on here 'black forum'. Never heard of it personally. There's no intimidation here BB, I just posted some physical examples of what I was talking about in this thread. It was you, who popped up after one of my posts, saying something about sugars not attracting carp. So although you did not speak directly to me, we both know who you were speaking to. So I replied. I have not pushed things since that reply.

Happy new year BB.
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   Old Thread  #50 31 Dec 2018 at 7.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #48
Hi PJ,
Yes, I understand your reticence to elaborate on your sugar theory to protect your commercial interests, because I know who you are and have read all your stuff on Fisherman's Warehouse.
Yes, it's best to remain polite even in the face of intimidation. I think it reflects more on the attitude of the accuser than it does on you if they vent their spleen.
Anyway, compliments of the season to you and have a great night.
BB.
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   Old Thread  #49 31 Dec 2018 at 5.00pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #46
The two photographs, were caught on hook baits that rely on both, sugars, and oils to work so well. So I think they were topical to the discussion Viking. I'm glad you have mate, you're not in the minority. Loads of people have sold more bait than me, tonnes of people. They all sell through shops though, we only sell, direct. I do not agree with everything BB & MM say either, I bet they don't with me either. That's life, and discussion. Science is often sooo wrong about carp bait. That's fact.

As for real world and you're opinion about what is right and wrong, do you want to see lots more impressive photographs of normal working blokes, with some of this countries best carp? I'm sure you don't. But you get my point.

It is just bait mate, and happy new year to you. I'm going to get blotted tonight I think Viking. I rarely ever drink, but tonight, I might just throw that out the window.

Have a great one Viking.

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   Old Thread  #48 31 Dec 2018 at 4.53pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #45
You're right BB, I am unable to answer your chemistry questions. The honest reason, I am not going to answer your questions regarding 'sugars' acting as feed stimulants, or tell you much more than I have about that, is for financial reasons. I'm not going to just give it all away on a forum now am I? That would be so incredibly stupid. One thing I'm not, is incredibly stupid BB. I can be polite to, there's no need for any underhand sly comments is there? I'm well versed in the 'internet', for some time. Yes you're right, hundreds of big carp are caught a season without 'sugars', but we are talking about a little bit more advanced stuff than that, aren't we? I thought we was anyway. Thanks for admiring my enthusiasm. I just admire big carp.

Happy new year mate, i hope both you, MistyM, and everyone else who reads this, has a great evening.
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   Old Thread  #47 31 Dec 2018 at 4.51pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #44
I find neither you or the points you make boring, just the bickering
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   Old Thread  #46 31 Dec 2018 at 4.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #43
Hi Mark/Paulie
Now this is getting a bit silly. You get some serious, fact based answers and reply by posting pictures of fish. This does not prove anything.
Anyone who has sold bait, that be made out of fish meal, plastics or semolina will be able to produce that.
If selling baits is what makes you knowlegdable, I can contribute to the pissing contest by saying I am pretty sure I have made and sold more baits than you have.
I do not agree in everything BB and MM says, but I know they know their baits and that their posts show they have a much deeper understanding than you do.
You don't have to understand the science to make a perfectly good bait, but when you post your theories as they are facts you should expect people to reply. Especially when some of the theories does not have any contact with the real world at all and is downright wrong.
Happy new year, and remember, its just bait.
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   Old Thread  #45 31 Dec 2018 at 4.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #32
Hi PJ,
I thought it impolite not to answer your post.
I haven't posted you before because I know you are unable to answer my questions, as you've said yourself you don't understand the science. You can state all the anecdotal evidence you like, but that doesn't tell me how and why sugars act as feed stimulants. Hundreds of big carp, I imagine, are caught each season without the addition of sugars. Does that prove anything?
By the way, how do amino acids figure in your bait formulation? Do you consider them to be the main feed trigger?
I'm sure you haven't upset MM and certainly not me either.
I read all your posts and admire your enthusiasm.
BB.
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   Old Thread  #44 31 Dec 2018 at 3.20pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #42
Hi Runneil,
Sorry if I'm boring you.
Perhaps you can bring the subject to a conclusion by answering my question?
BB.
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   Old Thread  #43 31 Dec 2018 at 3.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #39
"When I get a little more time I will respond to your oils and sugars tirade in a way that perhaps will enable you to understand how it all fits together".

Thanks MystyM, it was not a tirade. It was my thoughts. Sorry if I replied to your friend and upset you.

I'm just going to leave this here. Two photographs of customers of mine. Both with new personal bests, both caught last couple of days.

I have permission to use their photos, so I will post them here for the sake of this discussion. One is a 50+ Uk common, from a highly pressured venue. The other photo, is a brace of big carp, from a no fishing urban venue. All caught, with many others, past few days. Now both of these blokes MystyM, and many thousands of others, tonnes, will tell you the same thing. You're barking up the wrong tree mate, if you can't produce such physical evidence as this at the drop of a hat. These two have had a great Xmas hauling big carp. Don't worry about having more time, honestly. It will all be lost on me what you're going to say, not being rude. What matters, really to me, is photographs like these two MistyM.

If you and Butterbean, can pull out photographs like this, from the past couple of days that back up what you say. I will take that as physical evidence, that I need to listen to you, real hard to. When you, or your friends come out with, lets call it random 'stuff', that i think is a load of twaddle, I will say. Soz. I will produce so much physical evidence, to back up any claims I might make though. Not old ones, like proper recent ones like these two.


View post on imgur.com


View post on imgur.com
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   Old Thread  #42 31 Dec 2018 at 3.13pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #41
FFS both of you give it a rest sooooo boring on an otherwise good post 😧😧
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   Old Thread  #41 31 Dec 2018 at 3.08pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #40
Hi NW,
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion of my credibility, but I will just comment on two points.
When you studied for your degree and then PhD, did you not use the ideas and knowledge of others, namely, your tutors and text books to form your opinions? How else does one learn?
I assume it took you 5 years at Uni to earn your PhD. Well, surely in 8 years of casual bait study you would concede that I would have learned something of bait science?
Anyway, you have not attempted to answer my simple question. I don't know the answer and would like to know how and why sugars are considered to work as attractants.
By the way, I too have an album of big pit carp, not that it proves anything other than it is not necessary to sugar your bait to catch them.
BB.
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   Old Thread  #40 31 Dec 2018 at 2.15pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #37
Hi BB... Yes.... We've been down this route before so it is really very dull to go through this theoretical argument again and again on different forums, with someone, that let's face it, doesn't even fish anymore, whose ideas are merely those of others and reworded, and someone that was around during the developmental days of bait development but has only made his own bait over the past 8 years!

Yes... I do use proteases.... And as you know, I also use essential oils, and will continue to do so. You might not think 2 drops a kilo makes much difference... That's your opinion. My opinion, a bit like Marks, is evidenced in a photo album of big pit carp.
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   Old Thread  #39 31 Dec 2018 at 1.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #15
"Base mixes that contain things that tend to ferment, and create sugars, like seed, nut, certain proteins that kind of thing... These will create natural sugars, magic ones."

Fermentation, in this context, does not produce sugars it consumes them, although yeasts can split sucrose ( table sugar) into its component parts of glucose & fructose , prior to the ongoing consumption of these sugars.

Some ingredients in their natural state provide sucrose, glucose ,fructose etc, salt will not affect their concentration ; but fermentation will, it will reduce or eradicate them

There are no magic " natural" sugars, all sugars are specific chemicals conforming to a generic molecular structure,

Proteins cannot be " fermented " to form sugars.

In reply to post 18
Whey is not produced by fermentation; but by acidic/ enzyme coagulation of milk


In reply to post21
Amylase can react with some starches to form maltose/glucose, in the context of this thread I would have thought a mixture of alpha and beta amylase would have been a better choice , anyway
much easier to just add glucose to your mix.

In reply to post 32

You cannot dismiss basic laws of chemistry/ biology/ physics as rubbish just because you cannot grasp or understand them and how they relate to carp fishing

When I get a little more time I will respond to your oils and sugars tirade in a way that perhaps will enable you to understand how it all fits together.
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