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   Old Thread  #83 2 Jan 2019 at 11.41am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #78
Hi Viking, mate, I was trashed yesterday, forgive me, new years day and all that. I did tell you I was having a drink! Four glasses of champers and I was bandy .

I don't quite agree about the enzymes though mate. They do not create the same thing in any way shape or form. I've tried them. And I know, that I have something else which will out fish that 10-1 anyway. It does not involve enzymes. Unless I am creating them without knowing about it.

Enzymes have gone no where in the past ten years really. There is no major bait firm pushing enzyme baits really. If they were as effective as some make out, oh they all would be trust me. It's a multi million pound industry that does not miss a trick.

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   Old Thread  #82 2 Jan 2019 at 11.38am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #81
Hi Paulie,
MM is just pointing out that your writings s in conflict with known science. This is not his opinion, but facts proven through repeated experiments. I understand it may come across as rude but some of the things you claim is like saying the world is flat and that you can make water run uphill. When doing that one should not be insulted when corrected but possibly try to learn a thing or too.
MMs opinions on baits is purely science based and you will find it is hard to prove him wrong. I know that based on many discussions in the past. Now in my opinion there is more to baits than amino acids and I have been involved with testing myself that show different substances play a part. However this is nothing I will post here.
As for having success, I work with bait full time. But as I am located in Norway I have chose to concentrate on other species than carp. At least for now.
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   Old Thread  #81 2 Jan 2019 at 11.12am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #73
Hi BB. Thanks for that information, I'm a bit clueless as to who they all are. As your friend MM has just shown, they are all so stuck in their own personal ways, I find it hard to talk to them myself.

I stand by what I said before, if any of these blokes had the real deal, or knew what they were really talking about, they would be making good money from it. Unfortunately to my knowledge, none of them are. They maybe used to at one time or other, so what happened? If it's so great, why is everyone not using it now? I don't understand this myself. Maybe I'm just stupid, or rambling, or talking 'nonsense' eh. Maybe all of the many hundreds, if not thousands of personal messages I have, from complete strangers... Thanking me for helping them, or theirs catch more carp than they ever have before, are all nonsense to. They must be. I could bring an entire army of anglers here right now if needed, to tell MM that they will not even go fishing without them, period. There is no need. He's right of course, and I'm the idiot.

End of discussion.

Have a great day BB, and good luck for the future mate.

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   Old Thread  #80 2 Jan 2019 at 10.54am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #79
Ramblings? Jeez, it's very little wonder you argue with so many people MM is it? You're actually quite rude aren't you. I had various PM's from people right at the start of this conversation, telling me that you're an absolute idiot, and to ignore you lot. I choose not to do that, I choose to talk to you. BB seems like a sound man, you seem like an internet idiot though, who hunts in pairs. So I think I will ignore you.

As for posting photo's of myself, I see you make no comment at all, about the photo's of the bloke with the brace, and the photo of the bloke with the 50lb+ common. Where's your photographs of blokes out in the last few days MM, catching big UK carp, with your ramblings? Do you not have any? Do you just talk about it on the internet? Oh right.

Mug.





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   Old Thread  #79 2 Jan 2019 at 9.07am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #75
BB
Yes I did say that ; but after reading all through PJ' s ramblings late last night, and a nice bottle of red, I couldn't really see the point in doing so. l agree with Viking, the stuff he posts often has no relation to the real world, often is completely wrong, and often involves the rewriting of proven chemical reactions/laws ( not theories or myths ) that are taught in schools and universities all over the world.
Here's just a few examples

description of fermentation is effectively the reverse of what actually happens

"Activating sugars" to increase their chemoreceptive "attractiveness" -not possible

Heating oils to " get them "working "under water- no

Proteins can be fermented to produce sugars -not possible

Natural sugars being one of the best attractors for carp-no

The sugar chemicals in man made sugars being different to natural sugars -no
Sucrose in refined sugar is identical to sucrose occurring naturally in sweetcorn etc

Etc, etc, etc

Posting a photo of a carp does show he can catch carp, however using the photo as evidence to disprove established and proven laws /rules /reactions in chemistry/ biology
Is a bit of a nonsense
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   Old Thread  #78 2 Jan 2019 at 7.46am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #70
Hi Paulie,
I am not sure "magis, natural sugars" is the correct scientific term, but I get your point.
Fermentation is the source of a lot of good things. A lot, if not all of this can also be achieved by adding enzymes. This will give a more controlled result, but also complicate other aspects. I think the success of "active baits" is due to substances being so perishable that the full effect will be hard to achieve in shelf life baits.
Probably a reason Mainline is based on freezers.
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   Old Thread  #77 1 Jan 2019 at 10.03pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #75
Hi mate, tbh Iím not bothered either way, whoís right or wrong. Interesting reading though all round
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   Old Thread  #76 1 Jan 2019 at 9.33pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Interesting thread!!

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   Old Thread  #75 1 Jan 2019 at 9.06pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #74
Hi scozza,
MM said in his last post that he will come back on and post about oils and sugars, so I'm content to leave it to him as I'm not clued up enough to comment.
However, from memory, I imagine he will say that oils can't be solubilized and that carp have no receptors that could detect them anyway.
There, I stuck my neck out.
BB.

PS.
It's a shame that we are unable to access the B/F and all the pages of the bait discussion forum.
That holds a wealth of useful info and many of us used to refer back to it like a text book.
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   Old Thread  #74 1 Jan 2019 at 8.38pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #73
And if you make them soluble or release the fatty acids

We went down this route before as to whether oils were olfactory or gustatory and the common conception at the time was the taste in the water column, interesting really



Hi Paulie, Mark lol

Iím aware of the grange, never used it been a Northern lad, Activ 8 was the one around me. I saw what it caught and thought, thatís a bit special. I even bought a bit myself and took it to other waters and the fish responded well, quickly
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   Old Thread  #73 1 Jan 2019 at 8.21pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #69
Hi PJ,
Pete B was one of the 2 bait experts on the B/F along with MM as the other.
Yes, Pete said carp can't detect oils because they are insoluble in water.
There were many very lively threads on the B/F discussing oils, essential oils, salt, sugars and flavours.
However, to his credit Pete, by creating his UCN enzyme bait, produced a bait that most of those who got to use it said was absolutely in a class of its own and head and shoulders above any other bait they had used.
Read the UCN thread on Fishingwarehouse and judge for yourself.
BB.

PS.
If by chance, the moderator you mentioned earlier was Dean Cowell, then he was the one who actually made the UCN bait.
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   Old Thread  #72 1 Jan 2019 at 8.12pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #71
Thanks mate, happy new year. Active-8 was even better, but Grange came first, and was virtually as good as Active-8. I've caught nice carp on Activ-8 this year in fact. I'm a lucky lad in that I get to play with some high tech bits, that I would not normally be able to at a guess. My home stank of A8 for two weeks this summer just gone. It was very nostalgic. I had twenty kg of freezer bait three days later.
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   Old Thread  #71 1 Jan 2019 at 8.01pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #69
Cracking post mate as usual, Activ 8 changed the shape of carping around me imho, caught everything, respect to the the guys at mainline at the time, they made a stepped change in carp angling

And I didnít use it to start with
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   Old Thread  #70 1 Jan 2019 at 7.55pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #68
Yes I do cook oils Viking, I've spoken about that before online, so no harm in that. Certain oils that are advocated as great, actually work crap in water, and bait. But pop them into the oven for an hour on a low temperature, and everything changes. The oil itself changes. Think of it like chip fat running cars. It will not when it is raw chip oil, but after it has been cooked, it becomes an entirely different beast. Same happens in how that oil then works under water funnily enough. How it congeals, emulsifies, everything.

Heating sugars is a delicate thing though, it's very easy to go to far and mess it all up. But heat promotes fermentation, so obviously heat plays a very important part in everything yes.

Heat and sugars help create fermentation, (that does not mean full grown mould) which in turn creates magic natural sugars. Be that apples, be that grapes, be that maize, be that whatever. None of that is the be all and end all, it's just another little part of the puzzle. Anyone who drinks cider, or wine, eats a variety of foods, are consuming fermented stuff. None of that is rotting is it. My dogs adore dried duck fillet strips... They go wild for them. Far more than fresh meat... Because they have a much stronger, and nicer taste.

Edit. I did actually write two more paragraphs to this post, but they were just far to 'dangerous' to actually post, whatever way I tried to say it.
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   Old Thread  #69 1 Jan 2019 at 7.19pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #64
Thank you BB, you to mate. I've never read that thread you mention, I will dig it out at some point and have a good read. I'd much rather have a sensible discussion. I have to be careful what I say BB, I have history of opening my mouth on the internet, and others acting on it, in a commercial way. I remember PeteB from Cemtex. He was alright, a nice bloke any time I spoke to him. Is it him who says oils don't attract carp?

The one freezer bait, which I think changed a whole lot BB, in terms of new stuff, that was not just regurgitating something else somebody else had, over and over... Was Grange CSL. That bait changed things big time, first it was an incredible carp catcher, in that it just worked on another level, anywhere and everywhere. In a mad way at the time. And second, it was the first real popular mainstream bait of the newer era, that focused on things other than nice smells, when they were not really needed. It smelt weird. I never bothered with the plum version By jove it caught some carp! That two part CSL activator, was the key is my best guess. You see, you can have liquids which smell really nice, or you can have liquids that change the way the actual base mix works itself. So you have a liquid, which is 'active'. Active base mix ingredients, can be transformed by active liquids. It is this sort of 'thing', which leads to Nirvana in attraction I think, and the near perfect bait. In terms of it's era, Grange was so ahead of its time.

There's a song, who's message I love, I was actually in the 'class of 97' to, so I've always remembered it my whole life. This is a verse from it...

Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than itís worth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQlJ3vOp6nI
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