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   Old Thread  #165 4 Jan 2019 at 5.30pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Some interesting points coming up amoungst the jeeps!

How about sweet or salt curing a fermented bait? i.e to stabilise the bait (for practicality) by stopping further fermentation, yet ensnare the attraction of the original reactions..
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   Old Thread  #164 4 Jan 2019 at 5.02pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #161
Best post of the thread

Stay off carpforum and quadruple production

You mad ****
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   Old Thread  #163 4 Jan 2019 at 4.55pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #157
Hi Mark,
Glad to see the dust is now settling and we can look forward to some more interesting posts on this thread.
The results of heating oils and the mix and concentration of aminos are interesting subjects for discussion.
Ian.
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   Old Thread  #162 4 Jan 2019 at 4.02pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #161
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   Old Thread  #161 4 Jan 2019 at 4.00pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #159
No wonder there’s a two week waiting list for your ****ing baits... can you get off here and start heating some oils and get making some.
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   Old Thread  #160 4 Jan 2019 at 3.55pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #156
Hi MM,
Indeed we have had this discussion before. And I have read about it since then. I do have my doubts on how achievable this is in a real baiting situation with the relative narrow window of concentration.
I am sure this thread will calm down. Mark/Paulie does not know his chemistry, which he happily admit, and you have a focus on attractants that perhaps might benefit from broadening.
In my limited understanding the heating of oil cause a raise in polar substances within the groups carp can detect.
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   Old Thread  #159 4 Jan 2019 at 3.42pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #158
And that's what i said earlier Jim, but I was told I was wrong. I don't know the exact answer... I'm just the one doing it though and it works LOL.
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   Old Thread  #158 4 Jan 2019 at 3.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #157
At a guess heating up a oil will change it's structure/ makeup probably changing the way it behaves in water. I'd imagine it would make it thinner there fore make it less dense enabling it to flow into the water column more easily. Like alcohol lighter than water hence ea flavours in thicker cold water
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   Old Thread  #157 4 Jan 2019 at 3.28pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #154
Thank you MystyM, they are nice photographs yes. Pictures hang on a wall mate. All of those blokes, to a man MM, will tell you exactly the same thing. They will shout it to you, they will not listen to anything else. I will bet you. That's called, evidence to me.

You're asking me some questions, which I am not prepared to answer MM, that's all. Donkeys years ago I wrote about 'rotting' particles on the internet. This was before my business started. It was very primitive stuff. Everyone probably read it who's a bit older. It involved hemp and garlic. Carpworld articles were written about exactly the same thing some time later (years). And about the salt cured thread that I wrote on that forum to. The same bloke was connected to a bait firm which had just started, which brought out cured hook baits a year after we started up and launched ours. Luckily for me, the stuff I had spoken about on the internet, was not the real good un, I just did not know entirely at that time. Lucky I never wrote about 'sugars' back then for me, eh. Someone went down the wrong road because of that, and I'm so glad, copying at all points with their kit form coated hook baits to match. How did that all work out? Yeah, thought so, all just fell off in the water in 30 seconds did it? LOL. The actual boss, not that bloke, used to PM me on Cemtex, I did not even know he was the owner of that firm at the time this fella. They even pm'd me after two years of no contact, saying they were bringing out 'cured' hook baits to, and could I please help quash any copy talk, as great minds think alike and all that. I thought you cheeky sod! You used to PM me asking me questions about those threads! And you're actually best mates with 'him'! WTF. That's when I found out he actually owned that company. I did not reply. I was banned from the now dead forum soon after. The new owner of the forum Cemtex sold, was one of their pals I was later told. That's why TCarper died I'd guess LOL. TCarper just went and showed it all to 100k anglers on faceache... Bothered. Anyway, that's also why I cannot talk about everything so freely MM. I have before, and it has cost me. It does not mean I can't explain myself, it means I will not.

You are undoubtably, a far more educated man than me MM. But around a carp, nah sorry. I can admit my failings, I don't know everything in any way shape or form. But I know a bit, and what I know, well it just works, and works exceptionally well. Like yourself, carp and my business in fishing, are not the be all and end all. I have other things that help define me. I have never worked for anyone, ever, only myself. The one exception, is when I was a grade1 croupier in Mayfair during my youth. I was taught to cheat MM, to spot cheats. I can 'count' through eight decks of cards at black jack with ease. I can sit down with any man at poker and compete. Because I have an inherent understanding of odds. Multi billionaire bookmakers, all have a black book MM. They share this BB information with each other. Now the boss of one of them, paid themselves £580 million last year, wages. In their black books MM, there are names. My name (real name) is in them all MM. The reason those names are in those books, is because it's their golden number one rule... Don't 'play' with any of these people listed in the black book, or they will **** you up at your own game. Now you imagine, you're a clever man MM... The fun and games I have to play in that scenario to place a bet on anything in advance of the event. Do you think an internet argument on a forum really means the world to me? It does not. Or carp fishing politics? Nah. I just love fishing. All that has nothing to do with carp bait or fishing, but one thing I am not, is thick. I bet it does not matter to you either MM. So let it go. I'll say it again, can we just draw a line under this now. Internet friends MM, I am extending my internet hand, as men do in real life all of the time.

I'm glad you changed your mind now about oils MM. I'm very happy if you can tell me, why me heating oils makes them better, I would love that. But there's stuff I cannot tell you, for reasons partly explained above. So if you want to tell me do, but that's up to you MM.

I have a mate, who's friends influence the global food trade MM. I'm sure you know what that means. My mate has never asked me what I'm up to, and I've never asked him what he is up to. No need on either side. But gosh, does he know his onions about all things food. That would be the man who came up with three of the best freezer baits ever, bar none.

If I was ever going to trust anyone to put my 'baby' into a freezer bait, it would be him. Because he damn well knows his stuff is why.
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   Old Thread  #156 4 Jan 2019 at 2.27pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #151
We have had this discussion on amino acids before, if you recall caviats were put in place regarding the amino mix and concentration, this is critical in obtaining the max stimulation.
A discussion for another time perhaps when all the drama has gone out of this thread.
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   Old Thread  #155 4 Jan 2019 at 2.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #139
I am amazed did BB say that you had a PhD in Biology. Ask any Bio Chemist or Biologist to explain to you how the reflex ( involuntary) systems in teleost fish operate, the fish could not survive without these systems. Read the books of Caprio, Hara etc etc

If I recall on the black forum you spent a lot of time developing your own basic enzyme bait. You were so pleased with how the resultant bait worked that you thanked Pete B and myself, on the open forum, for all the help we had given you.
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   Old Thread  #154 4 Jan 2019 at 2.15pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #138
Thank you for all those nice pictures ; but you haven't answered my polite question regarding the attractiveness of tigers and hemp compared to enzyme baits.

I have the facilities and expertise to analyse, flavours, baits, glugs etc.there is a commercial sensitivity here so that's as far as I can go.
I have not in any way attempted to obtain the formulation of any bait, including yours, via a forum etc. I have no need to.

I can assure you there are no "wonder"ingredients " in any of the commercial boilie mixes; but yes there are different ways of putting the bait together to achieve the required flux rates of chemicals necessary to stimulate the chemoreceptors/detection apparatus

In terms of my financial status, business contacts, etc in the worldwide bait industry I have no intention of discussing that on a forum. I can tell you though that I have over 30 years experience .

Why do I post on some forums ? I have been asked that question many times.Firstly it's because I am a passionate carp angler, secondly because I am in a fortunate position to have access to unique facilities, formulations and knowledge acquired over more than 30 years which, where I am able to pass it on, may be of interest to other like minded anglers.
I accept that some anglers couldn't " care a toss" or even believe the science behind the bait; but some obviously do. I had many, many PM's of thanks for my help and requests for further information on the black and other forums.
My apologies to those who have sent me PM's on this forum which I haven't yet answered, I am used to E mail notification. I will reply.
Finally when things have calmed down a bit, I have changed my mind on oils, I will come back and explain how oils "work" and exactly what happens when they are heated.

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   Old Thread  #153 4 Jan 2019 at 10.59am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #151
Resetting rigs with pop ups and the D, were virtually as revolutionary in carp fishing as the hair rig in my opinion. Everyone has Frank Warwick, and Terry Hearn and people like them to thank for things like that. The resetting rig, changed everything. Carp get away with it all of the time. A bottom bait rig that is ejected, is in a pile on the bottom. The hook link is now all sticking up in the air, and you ain't getting a bite. A resetting rig, they can eject it as many times as they want. It's still presented perfectly, and never tied up in a little heap after ejection. If you know how many times they 'get away' with it, you know how important that little fact is. It's massively important.

So put something, on a resetting rig, that they find attractive on another level.

You cannot fail.

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   Old Thread  #152 4 Jan 2019 at 10.42am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #151
Oh I know all about that side of it to mate. Funny isn't it the bait industry games.

Nothing, that is a man made replica of anything natural (sugars or oils), are as good IMO Sturla. They are better at some things in a bait, and do have their uses though. But attraction, old mother nature is king of that castle.

I am actually quite overwhelmed how many PM's I've had mate since I was here yesterday. Some very kind ones indeed to. I'm very shocked at the amount of you Euro lads on this forum as well.

Here is one for you, and them Sturla. It's from a blokes, first ever trip to the Albert canal. It's 20kg+. I've heard the Albert, is not easy.


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   Old Thread  #151 3 Jan 2019 at 9.00pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #150
Hi Mark,
Others in the company wanted to walk different ways than me, thats when I left, simple as that. Me and my co-funders are still good friends, the new owners will not talk to me
Amino acids play an important role, but they are not all. Scientists have made replicas of natural foods replicating just the excact AA content of the food, and these usually are less effective than the full food extract. Also as you say, the effiency of nuts and other baits strongly indicate other substances are important.
My baits are based on hundreds of hours of scientific tank testing over many years and lots of these show very well that a lot of different substances other than amino acids have an effect. After seing and doing these tests I would not dismiss oils. This is tests performed by well known scientists, and these scientists say there is still a lot to discover in attraction.
You can say what you want about tank testing but if one should test this number of substances in real lakes it would take hundreds of years. You can't make the perfect bait in a tank, but you will get strong indications on what work and what don't. Then this can be tested in the real world.
Have a good night
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