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In reply to Post #65
Thanks, it can get very confusing, for me anyway, but also very interesting and rewarding, especially if someone else catches on a bait you made, even better when its a mate, bait has always intrigued me, boring to some I know.
I can easily overdo it, although some of my best mixes are the simpler ones, ( k.i.s.s as a mate used to say to me) , like yours and I think Bristol's 4 ingredient recipie, years ago I had mixes with over 20 ingredients, even more if I counted the different spices, herbs and milk powders seperatly, then on top of that lot there would be liquids,oils, flavours, I remember,one of my favourites had ground down cat biscuits,& crunchy peanut butter in it, worked a treat!!
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In reply to Post #64
I believe that Brocacell is pure freeze dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae (a particular type of yeast).
Celmanax uses the same yeast but it is further processed. The blurb from Arm and Hammer who make it says 'CELMANAX™ Liquid consists of a preparation of biologically active, Refined Functional Carbohydrates™ (RFC™) derived from the cell wall of accharomyces cerevisiae, blended with a rich supply of fermentation end-products from the culture of Saccharomyces cerevisiae on a defined nutrient media.'
The RFC in the Celmanax is the clever bit. Brocacel is just a pure yeast (I think).
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In reply to Post #63
Would I be right in thinking that the celmanax has similar properties to Brocacel?
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In reply to Post #62
The liquid seems about the same price regardless of where you buy it. I only no of one other UK supplier at the moment the other stopped last year but was still the same price.
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In reply to Post #61
On Baitwize the liquid Celmanax is £11.99 per litre.
Incase anyones interested, below is the Celmanax yeast meal prices per kilo, bargain if you buy in bulk, I'd like to know the shelflife
1kg = £6
2kg up to 4kg - £5.50 per kg
5 up to 10 - £5.00
11 up to 15 - £4.50
16 up to 20 - £4.00
21kg up to 25kg - £3.50 per kg
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In reply to Post #60
I believe the meal is the same stuff just freeze dried. I only use the liquid because I add some after boiling 
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In reply to Post #59
Thanks Smurf, I understand about the liquid, it's the celmanax powdered yeast meal I'd like to find out about, as it's on offer from the baiwize site 50% off, mind you before the offer it was £12 per kilo!!!
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In reply to Post #58
I've been playing around with the liquid version for the last 18-24 months but with limited fishing time I can't say exactly how much difference it makes to my bait. I don't have the time to fish it back to back with the same bait without it.
As I have said before it seems to make a difference to the amount of food my pond fish eat but that's not to say its attractive in its own right. It could just be aiding digestion so they are then hungry again sooner.....this in itself is a very good reason to use it in a bait if you think about it!
I have seen a video of tank tests on carp with it and they reacted positively to it but it was a single test on a limited number of fish.
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In reply to Post #53
Is celmanax yeast meal worth adding to a basemix, anyone tried it?
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In reply to Post #56
I know now smurf has got me wanting to try this aswell!
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In reply to Post #54
Baitwize also sell the celmanax liquid. Quick Google should help.
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In reply to Post #53
I'm gonna struggle there bud, I don't use faceache
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In reply to Post #51
Look for biologic baits on FB for celmanax 
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For those that like to play with a bit of CSL. Take a look at Mirage Baits two part CSL kit. Very interesting!
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In reply to Post #45
Ordered the last bits from aabaits today I went for the free hydro wheat,
Smurf has just made me one ingredient short now 🤣🤣
Maybe I could add brewers yeast instead?
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In reply to Post #49
I think I've heard of mainline cell........
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In reply to Post #48
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In reply to Post #47
But you have heard of mainline’s cell
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In reply to Post #46
Thanks for the reply would never heard of celmanax if you didn't mention it, will definitely look for it
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In reply to Post #45
I used to love CSL but it is so variable in quality now that I have stopped using it and switched to hydro wheat which so far seems of repeatable quality.
I mix it with a little Celmanax liquid (10-15ml Celmanax to 100ml Hydro Wheat) which thins it down lovely for easier mixing with the eggs and also then use this same mix to coat the boilies prior to freezing
There are a few papers on the internet about the benefits of using Celmanax on digestion in carp if you look for them. I have also found my pond carp eat more pellets that are soaked in Celmanax than if not soaked. When I say soaked I am only talking 10-15ml per kg of pellets and then left to soak in 
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In reply to Post #42
Can't wait to give this a try, just having a think which flavour if 5 would be good. If you spend a certain amount with aa baits 500ml Active hydro wheat
500ml CSL (Corn steep liquor) active
500ml Molasses
500ml Hydro fish protein
Would any of these be any good for the liquid side
Thanks
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In reply to Post #42
Thanks Smurf
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In reply to Post #40
fantastic bait 
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In reply to Post #41
Start with the original, many still using it all these years latter
I would change the equivite to 10g per kg of Selenavit E (I think it has a better profile and 110% convinced my baits are better with it).
For liquids go with any hydro liquid, I like wheat but many like liver or squid hydro's. All work and I suspect different fish in different lakes prefer different attractor so don't overthink it. Start at 60ml per kg mix and tweak it up or down from there as you gain experience. You can also use the same hydro as a glug if that floats your boat.
You may want to add a low level powder attractor like GLM, liver powder, yeast, krill etc. The mix will take it as long as its only a few % don't add everything, keep it simply.
Flavour is up to you, it will work without. However at the moment my pond fish are really switched on by some of the BAF Baits range so take a look at them.
I am always happy to try and help if you get stuck
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In reply to Post #40
Looked through it several times 🤣🤣 each time I say to myself I'm gonna try that one then that one then that one lol.
I guess I better stick to the original!
What liquids do you recommend?
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In reply to Post #39
Think he is talking about this one http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=280720
It has 546 messages on that topic and over >250000 views so maybe best not clog up this topic by copying it across 
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In reply to Post #37
Which recipe have you tried, can you list it here?
Save looking through it all again
Cheers
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In reply to Post #37
Any success with the catch rate??
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In reply to Post #22
If you want to do something more than an off the shelf base, use smurfs recipe on the carp forum approved boilie mix - I did and it works a treat and not too tricky.
merv
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In reply to Post #34
I'd aim for 100 mil
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Have you looked at the forum approved recipe?
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In reply to Post #16
When you say a decent amount of liquid how much would you recommend per 1kg?
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In reply to Post #32
Nice one ill give it a whirl, did you get my pm?
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In reply to Post #31
I'm sure that would be fine, just check it for buoyancy though, but I suspect you will be ok with 5% krill
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In reply to Post #16
Another thread revival here, I'm going to use this recipe this weekend but would like to add krill and belachan,
Would I just knock the lt94 to 35 and add 5 krill?
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In reply to Post #16
Yes, Bristols mix is an excellent suggestion for a easy to mix fishmeal, you won't go far wrong with that
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In reply to Post #28
is the mix bristol just told us suitable for winter aswell?
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In reply to Post #27
it all depends on cooking time... 20%clo and 20semolina will not give a soft bait if properly boiled and airdried... now it is up to you to decide how you want it
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In reply to Post #26
Ah okay, because I use a bait with 30 percent pd fishmeal and that break down and I fish with it 24 hours comfortably. The makeup of my bait is just different then. Thanks
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In reply to Post #25
It's a soft bait without too many binders so when it gets into the water it softens and breaks down quickly.
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In reply to Post #14
Why would this boilie break down within 24 hours?
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In reply to Post #21
good point! I use kilos, no reason to do otherwise.
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In reply to Post #16
Yeah I like that Bristol. Nice and simple and covers all the bases. Think i'll give it a go! Cheers.
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In reply to Post #19
But that would give a different mix i.e. 4 parts wheatgerm by volume is very different to 4 parts by weight as its a very light ingredient
Not picking holes just for clarity wonder which works for you.
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In reply to Post #16
looks a good mix that Bristol
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In reply to Post #17
either /or as long as you keep the ratio the same. 4 cups, 3 cups etc or 4kg, 3kg etc. Sure people wouldn't be mixing the two up!
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In reply to Post #15
yep, one and the same. 22% semo, not that much really, comparable with many other mixes that have been posted on here previously.
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In reply to Post #13
Just to be clear for others are the parts by volume or weight as that will make a big difference!
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In reply to Post #15
One of the most simple and effective basemixes I've ever used (and will be going back to when I actually get some bank time!) is:
40% LT94
20% CLO birdfood
20% Lamlac milk powder
20% semolina
This used with a decent amount of hydro fish/ hydro squid/ krill hydro and any flavours you want will work a treat. You get a decent amount of solubility from the milk powder, a decent texture from the CLO and the attraction from the LT fishmeal. This is by no means a complicated mix but covers all the bases IMO Its also nice and cheap!
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In reply to Post #14
Familiar recipe that.... Pete B one.
Bit too much semo in it for me but certainly a good cheap mix.
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In reply to Post #12
Agreed, a lot of time and money can be wasted messing about with bait. However the recipe I posted has been tried and tested over the years and supplies all the carp's nutritional needs. It's not my creation but was posted by a guy who used to run a bait company who knows a lot about carp nutrition. A bait does not need to have 17 ingredients to work well, a simple, balanced mix can work equally well. That bait rolls and binds well but is designed to soften and break down within 24 hours.
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In reply to Post #1
fishmeal 4 parts (provimi or LT94, no noticeable difference in practice)
toasted soya meal 3 parts
semolina 3 parts
lamlac 2 parts
wheatgerm 1 part
.5 of a part of the powdered additive of your choice (liver, glm, chilli, paprika etc)
All the above can be bought from BAF.
parts can be whatever quantity you like, just keep the ratios the same.
That's the mix to which I add belachan made into a slurry with fish sauce @ 12.5ml per egg.No flavours necessary but you can add them if you like.
Dead simple but it works a treat and comes out at £3 per kilo of finished boilies or cheaper if you buy in bulk.
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In reply to Post #1
One of the risks you have of trying to work out a recipe on paper is that it may not roll correctly and you will not find this out until you roll it. To get rid of that risk, it would be worth using a base mix that someone else has formulated and not add any ingredients that could upset the balance. If you are looking for cheap, then just go for the 50/50 mix and add fish liquids. IMO, if you are looking for longevity, spend a bit more on a HNV Base Mix. If you really want to save money and produce a high quality bait, you will have to do a lot of research, buy ingredients in bulk and probably try a vast amount of recipes before getting it right.
I went though this process years ago and found I spent a huge amount on ingredients, rolling tables, mixer, massive saucepan, air dry bags, etc. not to mention a huge commitment in time to research and make the baits. I have several recipes that I know will roll well and catch carp, but it probably would have saved money and a lot of hassle by simply picking a proven bait manufacturer and buy bait in bulk! Pause for thought.
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In reply to Post #4
50/50 fish
Based on the 50/50 mix, with inclusion of white fish meal, yeast, seaweed, betaine. Also includes egg albumen for easy rolling and firm baits.
my guess, probably Provimi 66 ( standard white fish meal ) or maybe Sardine/Anchovy or Herring meal perhaps?
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In reply to Post #9
It's a fishmeal based mix, look on their web site.
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In reply to Post #8
What is in the Patsull Park mix? Anyone know?
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In reply to Post #4
If you want to get a knowledge of bait making carry on and use the mix you have come up with, it will catch fish, then next time try varying it slightly and you will learn by trial and error. Read as much as you can and you will soon have more bait knowledge than most carpers.
If you just want a quick and cheap recipe you can continue to use I would suggest you use Quality Baits Patsull park mix from the off and add your choice of liquids. Yes it is a bit more expensive but it is a very good proven bait.
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In reply to Post #5
Just chop the block up a bit and put in a liquidise with the eggs.
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In reply to Post #4
I would just go with the 50/50 fish then and liquid Krill, I'd imagine the fish meal is Provimi not that it really matters IMHO, you could always give them a ring and ask, if you fish well that bait will catch you loads without the bells & whistles.
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In reply to Post #3
I am aware of the belachan blocks but wanted to remove the faff of having to grate it. Is it that different to the powder in terms of potency?
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In reply to Post #2
Well thats the thing, I don't want to get too carried away with it. I just want something dead simple that I can mix up whenever I need some bait and to save a bit of money.
I did see the 50/50 fish mix they do but again it doesn't say what the fish is. Although I guess it doesn't matter too much at this point. I'll look into your idea and see how I get on. Cheers
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In reply to Post #1
Why not just buy the 50/50 Fish add some liquid Krill and away you go, should roll great and catch loads, then take things from there.
TBH I used to think I was quite au fait with regards bait but conversations with those who are on another level I realise I was just playing at it and I have neither the time nor inclination to delve deeper especially as the years advance rapidly.
Good luck with it and should you wish for my view then send a pm.
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I want to start rolling my own bait so want to start with something really simple so I don't need to buy dozens on ingredients but obviously want it to be effective at catching fish too. I've seen you can buy ready made base mixes but most of them don't seem to list what's in them and it would seem to make sense to learn exactly what goes in to my own bait. Thoughts on the below?
Base:
60% 50/50 mix from Quality baits
20% LT94 fishmeal
20% Pre digested fishmeal
Additives:
Salmon oil
Belachan powder
Just wanted to check this was decent before ordering everything.
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Bait