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   Sinking Braid - Gardner Hydro Sink or Fox?
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   Old Thread  #57 16 Mar 2019 at 4.50pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #56
Been using the hydro sink in 22lb since last year after I originally started this thread. Pretty impressed with it. Sinks ok, but slowly. It does fade a bit from dark green to a mid green but still looks good. Haven't fished much in the last year but landed a 90+lb UK cat from snaggy gravel pit no probs. Did get cut off on another big cat but to be fair the cat took me right round a point swim next to me rod st full compression and line was grating against trees for about 30 minutes. Doubt main line would have coped tbh. It's good stuff I've since spooled up my other reels with it.
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   Old Thread  #56 16 Mar 2019 at 2.03pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #55
I have Gardner Hydro sink 22 on a set of spools. Seems thick but not overly. Casts very well, never had a wind knot. Sinks well, lovely and dark (although it will likely lighten with age) and of course, stupidly sensitive bit indication.
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   Old Thread  #55 15 Mar 2019 at 4.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #54
I currently use Korda subbraid- whatís the Gardner hydro sink like in comparison- is it thicker/thinner, lighten in colour over time?
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   Old Thread  #54 13 Mar 2019 at 11.48pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #53
Gardner all the way mate
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   Old Thread  #53 13 Mar 2019 at 9.40am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Thank you Boycie.
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   Old Thread  #52 12 Mar 2019 at 4.49pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Don't soak it, wind it on dry.
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   Old Thread  #51 11 Mar 2019 at 6.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #50
And Iíll probably get mixed answers here- do you guys then add a flouro leader or fish straight through to lead core? Cheers
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   Old Thread  #50 11 Mar 2019 at 6.15pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Sorry to drag up an old thread. Any advice on spoiling up with the hydro-sink? Soak or not?
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   Old Thread  #49 5 Nov 2018 at 7.55am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #34
The AVID braid is excellent - i have used alot of the others over the years but this is far the best
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   Old Thread  #48 4 Nov 2018 at 2.54pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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But you won't be disappointed... unless you're disappointed
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   Old Thread  #47 4 Nov 2018 at 1.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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I havenít found 1 fault since using it, as long as the braid is slightly under filled on the spool.
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   Old Thread  #46 4 Nov 2018 at 10.53am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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I got the Gardner braid because they were both disappointed
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   Old Thread  #45 3 Nov 2018 at 9.59pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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I was disapointed
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   Old Thread  #44 3 Nov 2018 at 8.25pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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I was disappointed.
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   Old Thread  #43 3 Nov 2018 at 6.11pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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The sub braid is fantastic! You wonít be disappointed.
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   Old Thread  #42 3 Nov 2018 at 2.01pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #41
I'd go with the Gardner braid personally, it's cheaper too.
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   Old Thread  #41 3 Nov 2018 at 12.45pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #40
Sold im gonna order some sub braid with my new reels tonight
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   Old Thread  #40 3 Nov 2018 at 8.42am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Absolutely, I am actually going to have real trouble going back to mono when I'm forced to
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   Old Thread  #39 3 Nov 2018 at 7.46am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #38
Yes
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   Old Thread  #38 3 Nov 2018 at 6.50am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
Sorry another question for the braid users can you feel for the drop and buttom much better with braid?


Hoping that if i swap to braid means that i leave the marker rod at home and save abit of weight again
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   Old Thread  #37 1 Nov 2018 at 5.48pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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thx guys 👍
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   Old Thread  #36 1 Nov 2018 at 5.47pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #34
I use Korda sub braid, Helicopter with 600mm pindown leaders. 3lb rods, and never pulled out of any fish
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   Old Thread  #35 1 Nov 2018 at 3.14pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #34
Yes as long as the leader is thicker material like leadcore then no problem
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   Old Thread  #34 1 Nov 2018 at 12.25pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I usually use a lead free leader (avid pin down) and I fish helicopter style, would I be ok fishing braid straight through to this??
I don't like the idea of braid,to a flouro leader to a lead free helicopter leader as too many knots should the inevitable could happen.
not really a fan of flouro leaders hence why I use the avid stuff.

any advice appreciated
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   Old Thread  #33 1 Nov 2018 at 1.42am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #31
👍
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   Old Thread  #32 31 Oct 2018 at 9.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #30
Yeah im just gonna keep with my standard mono as ill be on a runs water for winter to get a few bites and confidence in my new stiff rigs when i redo my reels ill strip half of it and put 100-200m braid . My waters don't need more then 80 yard chuck as ill mainly be on a rivers where ill be back leading or the odd trip to my smallish Club lake on the odd occasion.
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   Old Thread  #31 31 Oct 2018 at 3.00pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #24
Can I ask what pen you use to colour the line- Iím assuming a normal black felt tip pen?

Yep...Black and green permanent markers.

Lack of stretch is not an issue as far as I am concerned as I only use fairly light rods. These are quite soft in the tip section and are relatively gentle. TBH once you have got used to playing a fish on braid you will soon appreciate the feel of every lunge and head shake, and the runs are spectacular! After mono, which by comparison is like playing a fish on power gum, the fight on braid puts it in the shade.
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   Old Thread  #30 31 Oct 2018 at 1.37pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #29
Iíve only ever put 150yds on my spools. I doubt many could chuck near that with thick braid anyway. Once it faded after a year I reversed it onto spares and got another year out of the back end of it.
The initial outlay is a bit of a sting but over 2 years itís probably less than Iíd have spent on mono.
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   Old Thread  #29 31 Oct 2018 at 8.52am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #16
Was really in to using braid but i saw how much theese one cost...

Be like 80 to fill up my spools. Guess i can half fill my spools
With mono 1st. Ive never going to need 500m worth of braid
On my reels
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   Old Thread  #28 23 Oct 2018 at 9.16pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Youíre not preaching, youíre sharing your experience

Itís what forums are for.
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   Old Thread  #27 23 Oct 2018 at 7.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #25
Yes , but not much stretch in 1.5 meters. Which as ken suggests is all I would use.
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   Old Thread  #26 23 Oct 2018 at 7.16pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #25
It has more stretch than braid.
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   Old Thread  #25 23 Oct 2018 at 6.53pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #22
I thought fluoro had virtually no stretch. I think a rod with a forgiving action is more likely to be helpful when fishing with braid and a fluoro leader.
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   Old Thread  #24 23 Oct 2018 at 5.50pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #16
Can I ask what pen you use to colour the line- Iím assuming a normal black felt tip pen?
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   Old Thread  #23 23 Oct 2018 at 4.37pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #22
Always use 20ft of Fluro between the lead core and braid to make sure everything is pinned down near the lead and give you a little stretch when playing fish under the tip... No!!! ... what you have described is a is a death rig.

Have you ever stopped to think of the consequences of the knot going at the braid-to-fluoro connection? Even if you have set up the lead correctly to discharge on the take or when it touches a snag or weed, can you imagine anything worse for the fish than to drag not only a length of leadcore (3' possibly) and a 20' length of dense fluorocarbon? ... and if the lead is still on...

A 1.5m length of fluoro is all that is required to act, a) as a protection leader, and b) as a pin down measure. If you fish your main line semi slack the last 1.5m will definitely be on the bottom anyway, thanks to the density of the sinking braid + the fluoro header.

Please...I am not preaching here, as some may claim. I am a long term experienced braid user, as explained in post 16 and I have learned from my own mistakes, not least about leadcore itself, but that's a discussion for another day.

PLEASE have a re-think about this.

@ Graham: Most braids should be more abrasion resistant than mono. I have only had one a cut off in all the years I have been using braid and that was on the ultra-fine new version of Fox Submerge (0.20mm).

In certain circumstances, when allowing the braid to sink to the lake bed, it might settle across a mussel bed and on occasion the line might get pinched between the shell's lips. These are razor sharp and could account for your cut off.

I have also found that crayfish seem to have a linking to my braid from time to time and I sometimes reel one in still clinging to the braid main line.
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   Old Thread  #22 23 Oct 2018 at 3.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #21
Always use 20ft of Fluro between the lead core and braid to make sure everything is pinned down near the lead and give you a little stretch when playing fish under the tip
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   Old Thread  #21 23 Oct 2018 at 2.34pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #16
Interesting post, thank you. I'm new to using briad and have started to use the Hydra-sink for my fishing in France, I spooled up with it a couple of years back and have been to France twice a year since. I also found that the braid got faided by the sun but sank well and was very strong. It was good to cast as long as kept wet. My only reservation is that on 2 separate occasions the braid has been cut straight through fairly easily, I'm not sure if the first was by a pike attacking silver fish by the braid but the second time was shortly after the take so maybe it was laid accross something sharp on the bottom.. Is there a braid that is more resistant to being cut through or should I be considering using very long snag leaders and, if so, what might be my best options?
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   Old Thread  #20 22 Oct 2018 at 12.56pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Ooooops...Sorry about that. Post edited to show the correction.
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   Old Thread  #19 22 Oct 2018 at 12.49pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #18
yards not metres though Ken
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   Old Thread  #18 22 Oct 2018 at 12.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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After reading your comments, Chuffy, about hitting 120 yards using 15lb braid, I take back my comments about sinking braids not casting well. Clearly they do...Just not in the hands of this cack-handed caster!
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   Old Thread  #17 21 Oct 2018 at 4.36pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #16
Well you won't get a more informative answer than that!

I can add that I have been using Hydro Sink but the 15lb version, unless you are fishing Rainbow or wanting to stop a barge on the Thames I can't see the need to go to the 22lb version. Abrasion wise it deals with heavy weed no problem, in fact the only time it showed any wear was when I got the rods in a knot and ended up having to pull both rigs in and a weedbed from range, the wear was where the two lines had been rubbing together as far as I could tell.

Distance wise I have been maxing out at 120 and that's casting stood in the lake where I can't step into the cast as I'd disappear down a shelf , so as a sinking braid I'd say it casts really well. It definitely sinks like a brick as well, needs a little encouragement to break the surface tension like all lines but then off it goes towards the deck. So much so in fact I have had to order a neutral braid for when fishing beyond weedbeds, it pulls back out of them no problem but why make life hard for yourself.
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   Old Thread  #16 21 Oct 2018 at 4.05pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Having used various 25lb sinking braids almost exclusively over the past 12 years including Nash Bulllet, Fox Submerge and Gravitron, Gardner Hydro-Sink and Wychwood Epic brands I think I can be subjective on the subject.

I did not really get on with the Epic, as I didn't like the colour. However, I caught using it so I guess the carp didn't mind. I used it for one season on one set of reels, and used Fox Gravitron on another. Both preformed as expected with little discernible difference between the two. The Wychwood sank a bit better than the Gravitron but that's just a minor detail.

The original 25lb Fox Submerge was awful, but the Gravitron was OK. Then the new Submerge Plus came out and it was a different story. Where the original was crap the new one was superb. However, about three years ago they changed it again from what was a very decent sinking braid into a wire-like nightmare. The 25lb stuff is 0.16mm which IMO is far too thin for safe fishing. I used the 40lb ( 0.20mm) version for a year before switching it in favour of the Gardner stuff.

Hydro-Sink has a stated breaking strain of 22lb but that is with a straight forward linear pull. If it breaks at all it will go at the knot and at about 40-42lb, so plenty strong enough.

Nobody could ever call a sinking braid a good casting line. Bullet was pretty awful in that respect. The current Fox Submerge being so fine does cast well but you need to ensure it is soaking wet or wind knots will occur. I cannot in all truth call it a proper sinking braid either as I found it needed to be encouraged to break the surface tension, while Submerge Plus and Hydro-Sink cut through it more or less straight away without the need for any encouragement. Frankly, if you want to cast a long way don't use sinking braids.

The current Gardner braid appears to me to be very similar to the Fox Submerge Plus, which I liked a lot. For the past three years I have been on Gardner Hydro-sink and it has been excellent. It is loaded on all three sets of reels, Fox FX11, FX9 and Shimmy Techies.

All the braids I have used become sun-kissed. I still catch when they have lost a bit of dye but I feel a bit uneasy using them. I therefore colour mine for the first 40-50m with marker pens. I cannot tell you it makes a difference but I feel a bit more confident in the coloured line.

I know there are better braids out there but for my type of fishing the Gardner Hydro-Sink is excellent and I can recommend it wholeheartedly. Bear in mind that I fish very slack lines where I can get away with such a tactic and the Hydro-Sink does exactly what it says on the tin..It sinks!

I have also used a braid which I believe is termed neutral buoyancy, namely 53lb PowerPro (actually a more realistic b.s. would be about 45lb). I use this for one specific purpose and that is to fish on a certain section of the River Lot in France where the bottom is hard and sharp and the last thing I want it for the line to sink. I therefore fish in a similar manner to the Rainbow anglers, using a very buoyant float to hold the line up off the bottom. The line 'my side' of the float does not come into contact with the river bed, a long Quicksilver abrasion leader taking on the task of resisting all the river bed can dish out.

This is probably TMI but as I am at a loose end more often that not, I can find the time to write in a bit more detail. here are a few pix, which I hope will help.

Original Fox Gravitron and Wychwood Epic.



2nd generation version of Fox Submerge. Great braid on a terrible reel!



This is the newest version of Submerge. Way too fine for my liking



22lb Hydro-Sink.



22lb Hydro-Sink on FX9



Sun kissed Hydro Sink on FX11.



22lb Hydro-Sink on a Shimy coloured with marker pens.



Hydro-Sink slack.



PowerPro 53lb with long Quicksilver abrasion leader.



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   Old Thread  #15 21 Oct 2018 at 3.22pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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   Old Thread  #14 21 Oct 2018 at 2.09pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #13
It casts okay Goose. Any sinking braid has extra fibres woven in to make it sink. So it's thicker, therefore it does not cast quite as well. It still casts great, I prefer it a bit thicker myself, it stops the wind knots. I think it's the best braid on the market. I've had 3 x 600m spools on three longcast spools for a few years now. You can probably gather from that, I don't cast it too much. It ages well enough, loses a bit of colour, but they all do. It sinks well.
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   Old Thread  #13 21 Oct 2018 at 2.00pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #8
What's 22lb hydro like for casting distance.
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   Old Thread  #12 21 Oct 2018 at 12.08pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Thanks for this info. I am making the change from a Korda mono next year to braided mainline. I fish tight to islands at my go to venue and having the zero stretch is going to save me overcasting into trees!

Was tempted to go with the Korda braid, but the Gardner may be the line of choice now
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   Old Thread  #11 2 May 2018 at 1.41pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #8
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'd only ever use mono now if rules dictated...
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   Old Thread  #10 1 May 2018 at 9.01pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Nice one you won't be disappointed
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   Old Thread  #9 1 May 2018 at 7.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #8
Ordered the Gardner Hydro Sink earlier
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   Old Thread  #8 1 May 2018 at 5.09pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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This season after loosing 2 fish the stretch in mono on linch hill last year and them making a snag I've put Gardner hyro in the highest breaking strain think it's 22 but not sure .fished with 14ft fluro leader and now I'm a total convert I'd hate to go back to mono and dreading going to a venue where I have to get the mono spools on .total game changer for me no issues with wind knots or anything as long as you wet the spool .get on it
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   Old Thread  #7 1 May 2018 at 9.31am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #6
I used the Gardner braid and loved it!
Still have it on two small reels.
I've also just loaded the Ridgemonkey braid onto my SS2600's - After its first use it performed well. However, time will tell. The Gardner braid I've used for two years now and don't have a single complaint about it.
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   Old Thread  #6 1 May 2018 at 9.09am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #5
Cheers Lads

I think I will try and get hold of the Gardner stuff then
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   Old Thread  #5 30 Apr 2018 at 8.15pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #4
I only used the 40lb version which is very thin the Gardner is very strong I uprooted a lily pad with it thickness wise itís similar to the old Nash bullet braid
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   Old Thread  #4 30 Apr 2018 at 7.27pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #3
Cheers so far guys. I'm not too fussed about casting abilities, abrasion, strength and sinking properties far more important for me.

Did you try / see the 55lb version of the Submerge which is fairly new out or the 40lb stuff that has been around for longer?
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   Old Thread  #3 30 Apr 2018 at 6.59pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Iíve used both the Fox was very thin and didnít sink that well moved over to the Gardner which I prefer sinks pretty well and is very strong I use it with a Fox trans khaki 20lb 1.5 meter leader
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   Old Thread  #2 30 Apr 2018 at 5.54pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
I looked at the fox and it was like cheese wire, i settles on the korda sub braid in 20lb.

never looked at the gardner, nobody had it in stock near me
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   Old Thread  #1 30 Apr 2018 at 5.43pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Hi All

I'm after a bit of advice / recommendations.
I fish for carp and good size cats (up to 100lb) and am looking at new line. I fish a gravel pit which can be challenging with pronounced bars, swan mussel beds and weed. I currently generally use Berkley Fireline moss green round profile braid in 50lb. It is great stuff and can take some abuse and I have landed some good fish with it. The problem is even though it is good stuff, it bloody floats! Even though I use a fluorocarbon leader I'm sure the floating braid isn't helping when it comes to carp. To combat the floating I have also tried various fluorocarbon lines (Tiger Line 18lb, Diawa Floorit 17lb and more recently Venture in 18lb). The Venture was by far the best behaved, but not the most abrasion resistant and as a result although it seemed to help with the carp, I lost a few cats with cut-offs, so I quickly reverted back to the braid.

So that brings me to sinking braid which I have no experience of. I have read good things about the Gardner Hydro Sink in 22lb and also see that Fox now do a 55lb version of Submerge. I had read reports of the Fox being too thin, but that was in the lower breaking strains. I take breaking strains with a pinch of salt unless they have been tested, especially with braids. I see Gardner is 0.35mm diameter in 22lb and the Fox is still only 0.3mm in 55lb, so I'm thinking the Gardner is more likely to be tougher even with a far less stated breaking strain. Any recommendations / thoughts much appreciated.

Cheers
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