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   40 or 50mm Butt rings?
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   Old Thread  #135 20 Aug 2014 at 6.58am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #134
I'm just curious for the outcome of post 99 and 111
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   Old Thread  #134 19 Aug 2014 at 6.30pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #128
I know it is a bit late but have a look on kigans website at the new rings they are bringing out as they are more oval in shape which may back up your line of thinking.
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   Old Thread  #133 18 Aug 2014 at 2.31pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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i'm still very interested in the outcome
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   Old Thread  #132 28 May 2014 at 8.26pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #131
I'll bump the thread since i'm still interested in testing and the pictures.
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   Old Thread  #131 12 Dec 2013 at 5.50pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #130
Ah now that is a point I will not contest
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   Old Thread  #130 12 Dec 2013 at 4.40pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #129
Ian,
Not you as you've obviously thought about this but you only have to ask the trade and the main reason rods with 50's now outsell other rods with smaller rings is because the anglers like the look of them.

Most purchasers don't even know why they are buying them?
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   Old Thread  #129 11 Dec 2013 at 10.34pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #128
A very very valid point and one my tiny mind needs time to digest but my personal belief is that the significant coning occurs at the butt ring then ring by ring the coil diameter diminishes till it is hopefully running true and relatively straight. I am leaning more towards the smaller ringing being an advantage for range fishing purely because the butt ring has coned the line dramatically therefore the other rings have less work to do with regards to the coil diameter. But if the below comment is valid regarding decreased diameter of guides under blank compression then would the bigger ring diameter make all the difference. Another possible downside of the bigger guide though is line slap which is very apparent on a lot of the free spirit built rods. All my previous rods had line markings in the whipping on the top leading me to believe that the guide is positioned too far or too close to the reel seat..
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   Old Thread  #128 11 Dec 2013 at 10.18pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #127
one thing i could throw in / ask, it might be of no significance however...

If the significant coning is taking place further up the rod, then, as the rod is put under load / curvature during the cast the actual diameter of the rings is smaller due to the angle of them .... in essence a 30mm ring up the rod as opposed to the butt may well be 15mm if the rod is hooped over just after release???

don't know whether that helps reinforce any point or not???
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   Old Thread  #127 11 Dec 2013 at 9.25pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Razorback In your very last pps statement you have just summed up the point I am trying to make and as you rightly pointed out in my opinion the line ran true as soon as it had coned down sufficiently that the line was being pulled at a relatively controlled rate with the 30mm ring set. What happens during the cast with any ringing pattern is far beyond the comprehension of my tiny brain but if I had to apply a simplistic level of physics to this then I would suggest that the majority of the friction has already been imparted at the butt ring therefore any further coneing will be of a more gradual nature where as with the smaller rings exactly the same principal applies at the butt ring but the relatively straight nature of the ringing means not much coneing will occur. I am talking about high speed heavy lead casting here though and to be brutally honest how much difference either set up makes is probably negligible until you take it onto a tournament field. I am merely suggesting that for the vast majority of carpers the bigger ringing will give them more trouble free use.
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   Old Thread  #126 11 Dec 2013 at 9.07pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #125
I agree with you in part, particularly with the lighter leads and heavy line (0.35flouro and basiairs) as i have experienced this on another set of rods with 30's and 8mm tip eyes (with 2.25TC rods).

The line was definitely having a lot of drag on the small butt ring with 2oz leads on. Was having to really thrash the rod to get 70ish yrds and the same cast with a 2.5 oz lead on was whistling over 100+ yds. Very frustrating!! Like you describe (with the 2oz leads on) it whistled out for the first 15 - 20yds then just died a death with an audible whistling from the butt ring, almost like the line was overshooting as the lead was decelerating faster than the line was coming off causing a 'overrun' onto the ring.

However.....even with 50's on a standard ringing pattern (say 50, 40, 30 etc to 16mm tip eye) the coils have to go through the 16mm tip eye which is almost half the diameter as the 30mm butt ring i have on the rods... which brings the question..

..Will the tip eye not cause more resistance than the butt eye of my rods??? It also has to go through the rings that are smaller than my butt ring albeit positioned half way up the rod??

PS - On the 2.25 rods - Once the line had gone through the butt eye the line ran as straight as a dye and it was definitely the 30mm butt eye that was causing the problem...

PPS - if what you say is correct when heavy leads are deployed then, even with heavy lines, the ringing pattern will make no difference in respect of distance achieved with the same reel / line combo??


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   Old Thread  #125 11 Dec 2013 at 8.31pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #124
Something I forgot to mention but has been touched on before by others is the lead size in relation to the line type and thickness. I don't doubt your casting prowess for one minute Mr razorback but I think for your average angler using relatively heavy lines and comparatively light leads (chods etc) I think the bigger ringing would be more suitable as the inertia exerted casting a light lead would diminish far quicker than with a heavier lead therefore the line is going to be pulled from the spool in a far more controlled manner with a heavy lead than for a light lead. This leads me onto what I believe is the key point of this ramble, the quicker the line is coned down and is travelling at a fairly steady speed I don't doubt a smaller ring set with a greater number of guides could be an advantage as you would be trying to achieve a more constant friction but as soon as you switch to a lighter lead set up I believe you need bigger ringing as the line is being pulled at a far slower speed and has the chance to coil or retain the spool shape far more readily because of the inherent springiness of modern fluros and mono's this can lead to the dreaded butt ring frap ups so to summarize my thoughts I believe bigger ringing is far more suitable for a wider range of applications than a mere fashion accessory and for your average angler and caster certainly not a gimmick.
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   Old Thread  #124 11 Dec 2013 at 7.41pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I attended a casting tuition with terry Edmonds and the same question was asked.

Thicker line will travel through the bigger butt ring easier but for the average carper and the waters they fish and the distance they would generally cast it makes no difference at all !!

He also went on to comment about different reels and such like. He had some old cranky reels that he said that he has had for years and that did not make much difference either.

What he did show us was the new rods with varying TC'S, That made the difference (aswell as his casting technique).

Don't get sucked in to more gimmicks boys !!!


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   Old Thread  #123 7 Dec 2013 at 2.51pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I have had my old (almost redundant) set of AK47's rebuilt with the 3.5 tips on and had a 30mm but rings on them...30, 16 12 8,8,8 and 8mm tip eye.

Tried 40s and 30's during the build and it made absolutely no difference at all. In fact the furthest cast was on the 30's....That was coupled with basiairs and 10lb pro clear straight through and 3.5oz lead.

I have coupled them with my old emblem 5000Z's now with 12lb pro clear. They are still doing over 190+.

Not tried them with heavier lines (0.35mm+ ) yet as they haven't been designed for that. Just handling varying loads and blasting 3.5 - 4.5oz leads.

Be interested to see Tom's findings on the heavier lines though...

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   Old Thread  #122 7 Dec 2013 at 2.37pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #121
Ian,
We have more in common than you realise, we have great taste in rods!

I have Free Spirit Hi-S 3.5's with 40's on them and also a set of ES's with 40's on them. If however I'd have gone for the Hi-Sive or Hi-S 200's then I would have got them with 50's on.

When I looked at the rods in Tackle Box I looked at the 3.5 with both 40's and 50's and couldn't believe the difference, they felt like different rods!

Ii found the Hi-Sive a little too harsh for my fishing, if however I spent more time fishing over 100 yards with larger diameter lines I would have gone for this model. I do however like the new Hi-Sive ER's and with the stiff butt section I would go for 50's!
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   Old Thread  #121 7 Dec 2013 at 1.24pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #120
Indeed Andy, the last thing I would want to do is cause the great 40/50 divide and if I'm brutally honest I do actually think 40mm ring sets look better so I must be the opposite way to most ! I have had many a frap up with standard ringing free spirit x.s. Being some of the worst for this but the same set up on my hi s didn't do this to the same extent so my mind perhaps the blank is as much responsible as the rings. I will play devils advocate a little here and go so far as to suggest perhaps softer more parabolic blanks should perhaps be the rod fitted with big guides as I know I am not alone with the dreaded butt ring frap ups.
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   Old Thread  #120 7 Dec 2013 at 11.20am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #118
Hi Steve, you know my views on flourocarbon, great for trout!
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   Old Thread  #119 7 Dec 2013 at 11.15am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #117
Ian,
I agree with you to some degree but you have to ask yourself why do most anglers buy rods with 50 mil rings on and it's not to aid casting it's because they think they look better! If this isn't a fashion statement I don't know what is?

I have rods with both 40's and 50's so I don't dismiss the latter out of context I just question why the majority buy them.

As for frap ups I have been carp fishing for thirty two years and I have been using rods with 40 mil rings for eighteen years and never had a frap up with them using lines right up to .38 mm.

I have 50's on my Spod and Marker rods because they have stiff butt sections which support the weight of the rings adequately without causing the rod to bounce excessively. If I decide I need a set of ultra long range rods for my fishing then I will get them with 50's as I think they will be of benefit for the intended purpose.

Ultimately it doesn't do for us all to like the same thing and if we didn't have different views how boring would things be!
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   Old Thread  #118 7 Dec 2013 at 11.03am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #115
Hi Keith and Andy. I think the difference in this case is fluoro. 50 mm's make a difference then, but with our nylon its much less the case. You'll get to realise when you meet Keith that he's at that age now. Definitely a fashion victim! He's even got a designer house by his swim lol
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   Old Thread  #117 7 Dec 2013 at 10.53am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #116
I struggle to see how a ring can be fashionable as such but over 25 years of carp fishing alone I have made the switch to 50mm ringing and the benefits even on a softer actioned rod far outweigh the negatives. Yes they may weigh a fraction more but the modern carbons in use today are crisp in feel and nature I am not sure it makes an awful lot of difference these days. Having the confidence to wind a rod up when needed without fear of butt ring frap ups and associated problems is worth being called fashionable in my book. If things didn't move forwards then we would all still be using 25mm butt rings which as I'm sure you will agree would be a nightmare with the heavier lines in use today, the line slap on the blank would probably remove the varnish in no time at all haha! There is also the spool diameter to consider as I know this makes a huge difference. My last set of rods were built with 40mm ring sets with the butt ring as far away from the reel as possible which helps a little but using my ss3000s I had no frap ups but exactly the same line on my emblems still gave me frap ups and increased twist. Using my newer rods with 50mm ringing it isn't an issue at all now so despite not knowing the exact physics of it, I know in practical terms it does make a difference. I think this fashionable statement needs putting to bed now as at the end of the day it is a rod ring and not something that is worn!
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   Old Thread  #116 7 Dec 2013 at 9.54am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #115
Hi Keith, we can discuss this one over a beer next year when I come out to your lake?

In essence we're both right, on my rods they are built with normal silicon rings and the 50 mil ring set weighs twice as much as the 40 mil set which drastically effects the feel of the rod. This would be different if I'd have got the stiffer butt sectioned long range versions but I like a players rod.

Minima rings are an enigma in that they weigh a lot less than silicon rings but you pay for it by virtue of the fact they have stainless linings which aren't as good as silicon carbide.

Anyway why do you need 50's the longest cast on your lake is only 80 yards? You must be a fashion victim! LOL!
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   Old Thread  #115 7 Dec 2013 at 9.06am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #114
I don't totally agree with you Andy.
I have 2.75 softish action rods which I use with Tech reels for the benefit of the good clutch plus I use fluoro main line. I have tested loads of different rod types and styles and whilst I agree that some 50mm ringing can upset the balance or "feel" of a rod I have mine built with Minima rings which weigh very little. The action and casting is superb. The fifties cone and control the fluoro much better than the forties did so the completed rods do exactly what I want them to do and will cast light leads, on heavy fluoro lines well over 100yds.
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   Old Thread  #114 6 Dec 2013 at 9.55pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #91
You also have to take into consideration the rod action, 50's are fine if you're using a fast action rod however if your edging towards a progressive action then 50's turn them in to a floppy monstrosity,

I remember choosing my rods, 3.5lb test curve progressive action, the blank with 40's felt fantastic yet the same blank with 50's felt unwieldy!

I have to say for most 50's have become a fashion accessory rather than something that will improve your fishing.

I have handled the NRXD's designed by Terry and I have to say its a perfect match however I went into Johnson Roos the other week and they had a popular make of rod, progressive blank, 3lb test curve with 50's on it, it felt horrible! Nothing to do with the blank as a mate of mine has the same rods and they feel fine with 40's.

I'm not against 50's, I have them on my spod and marker rods. But I have to question anglers motives for having them.

We have an old boy on my syndicate, he has 50's on his rods because it was fashionable, he struggles to cast over 50 yards!

Finally all I'd say is ask yourself why your buying a rod with 50's , do you need it?
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   Old Thread  #113 6 Dec 2013 at 2.05pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #111
Hi,

Did you manage to get the camera out?
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   Old Thread  #112 30 Aug 2013 at 9.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #111
They're different that's for sure! Would love to hear tel20s view on them.

When you say 'increase power' would that be casting potential or fish playing power? Or both?

Edit
Just played a fish on a mate's 2 1/4 multi carp with a 7 ring Fuji set, it actually felt totally different to mine, a lot softer, a bit sloppy even.

I didn't realise just how big a difference the ringing can make!




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   Old Thread  #111 30 Aug 2013 at 9.08am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #108
Hi Jan - picked up your message, Il try and get chance to do a detailed piece as soon as possible.


Having spoken a lot with Jason about the matter, its pretty complex and takes a bit of explaining.

Il set my camera up and take a few pics also.



The microwave guides are very interesting, and work well for a few reasons.
They don't currently make a suitable sized butt ring for heavier lines, but im sure they will in the future.

They enable the use of much smaller rings on the tip section, and more of them, so it will increase power and decrease torque.
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   Old Thread  #110 29 Aug 2013 at 8.51am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #109
i always use 50mm butt rings find it easier to cast witht he big pit on the reels
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   Old Thread  #109 28 Aug 2013 at 12.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I wonder where the new microwave guides fit into this subject?
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   Old Thread  #108 28 Aug 2013 at 12.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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What's the outcome of the testing you've done ?
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   Old Thread  #107 12 Dec 2012 at 3.52pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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40inch is better
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   Old Thread  #106 12 Dec 2012 at 3.42pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I know people are obsessed with big butt rings but this is just taking it too far

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   Old Thread  #105 6 Dec 2012 at 6.26am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Wow! There is a lot more to this subject than meets the eye!
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   Old Thread  #104 5 Dec 2012 at 10.40pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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.......and the angle......

Diawa reel stems / spools point toward the rod......Shimano's however don't.....in fact some of the top end ones point away from the rod in order to accommodate the large spool and, instead of redesigning the bail-arm they simply angle the spool / reel outwards so the bailarm doesn't get in the way of anything.........

Therefore - The natural angle for the (shimano) reel is for the line to never touch the rod.....

This obtruse line angle might explain why they respond better / require 50's....as you have to get it (the line) under control somewhere.....

Food for thought.....
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   Old Thread  #103 5 Dec 2012 at 10.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Hmmmm.. i think i know what you mean... which also brings in the length of the reel stem..?

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   Old Thread  #102 5 Dec 2012 at 8.26pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Probably for the same reason that people who are between a 40 and a 30 don't have a 35 to go at.....

If you subscibe to the Anglers Wokshop thoughts on design (which i do) then......

The size to be honest is irrelevant (and what i have been shown by Kev) the positioning is key.......not the size (as the actress said to the bishop) as the bottom edge (furthest away from the rod) should always fall within the line to the natural intersect point of the blank from the centre of the reel.....


In other words a (same ringing) a 50 would be placed closer to the reel than a 40 and a 30 even further away to pick up that very line.... as an alternative, a stand off 40 may well be in the same place as the 50 and a stand off 30 in the same place as the 40.....on the line that the line naturally intersects the rod.....

Hope that makes sense....
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   Old Thread  #101 5 Dec 2012 at 8.09pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #100
I cant actually believe there is not a 45mm butt ring availible, for one people would rush out and get a set of the next best thing... lining thepockets of rod builders...

it would be a happy medium for those who argue 50 is to big and 40 too small... personally i think a 45mm would suit the spool size of say daiwa tournies etc perfectly.... obviously need testing though.... has it ever been done....

i for one would love a set of rods 45mm thru to 14 tip... with some odd sized inters to match the cone... but will happily stand corrected if there is a lgit reason they dont exist...
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   Old Thread  #100 5 Dec 2012 at 7.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #99
Tom, when you do these tests, can you also measure how much pressuredifferent tc rods can appl,y like my floater rod vs a t.e.special but also if you have say torrix rods in 3 1/4 and 2.5 see which one applies more pressure
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   Old Thread  #99 30 Nov 2012 at 10.57am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #97
Hi Jason

No not yet, have rung up a couple of blanks, (halcyon 3lb) with differing ringsets, but not had a chance to use them as yet.

Ive used minima guies on both.

Initail impression is that the rod with the smaller guides will give more 'loaded' power but wont cast anywhere near as far in a normal (for me anyway - 15lb line/big bit reel) fishing situation.

Ive enlisted the help of a couple of my closer consultants to give me a hand with photography and video, I should think we will get it done over the christmass break when I can get a day or two off.

It will be interesting, thats for sure.


As a secondary point, I have only taped on the butt ring, so we have the chance to change it for a k-series and see if it help. When we try it with 16lb flouro, im sure there will be a little frapping.


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   Old Thread  #98 30 Nov 2012 at 10.05am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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I'd be very interested to read the results too, Jason.
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   Old Thread  #97 29 Nov 2012 at 9.40pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #90
Been 10 days or so..........Any results yet Tom? .......


......particularly with the output of the rods as this isn't weather dependant....
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   Old Thread  #96 26 Nov 2012 at 11.39am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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All really mate unless you want it for show.
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   Old Thread  #95 24 Nov 2012 at 11.07pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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if i had a rod with a 40mm but ring could i change it to a 50mm or do i have to change all the rings to suit ??
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   Old Thread  #94 19 Nov 2012 at 1.22pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Thanks for everyone's input. I do have my answers and will be trying a few different things from now on and I think I will certainly be heading the right direction.
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   Old Thread  #93 19 Nov 2012 at 12.32pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #91
Good luck with the tuition Tel.....

Out of interest, the rods that you used to set the world records with the 50s attached.......would you (or even could you) use them as fishing rods......
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   Old Thread  #92 19 Nov 2012 at 12.24pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #90
No Tom, the 30 ring set would be 30 16 10 8 8 & 8 tip on the 2.25

If you are rigging a more powerful rod up say a Torrix 3.25 then try a 9 ring set with 30, 16 10 8 8 8 8 8 and 8 tip.

Not knowing them particular rods too well its very difficult to be honest. I would also suggest 'k' series guides straight through.

The intersect point of the line naturally intersecting the rod should be about 26times the spool diameter if using a shimano mag, tech, etc as shimano spools don't taper in to the rod very well. The intersect point is where you would put the 10mm ring and then you could run 8's from there right the way up.

If using Diawa reels they naturally angle into the rod and my old emblem z's were exactly 26 times the spool diameter to the natural intersect point.

Have fun.........oh and if possible take a variety of leads with you and see how each ringing pattern performs under varying load on the same rod. If the smaller ringing feels too powerful then remove an 8mm eye and that will then soften the rod a bit.....with the smaller ringing and heavier loads say 6oz shorten the drop also...conversely lighter loads, increase the drop


When you have completed the ringing clip a 6oz lead onto both rods also and see how that feels.....
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   Old Thread  #91 19 Nov 2012 at 12.14pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #90
also out of interest i have cast 50,75 and 100 gram uk records in the past on 50mm ringing so they work with all weights and lines even though maybe not as big as advantage with light lines the 18 gram fixedspool world records also come on 50mm ringing

they way i see it i can be at a disadvantage with small rings and decent thickness line, bigger rings do everything

ok im off now for a casting tuition

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   Old Thread  #90 19 Nov 2012 at 10.44am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #88
Razorback,

Yes sure, will be interesting to see

with the 30mm ring, i presume you are using a 9 or 10 ring set?
something like 30/25/20/16/16/12/12/10/10/10tip?


Il be rigging a frew blanks up this week
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   Old Thread  #89 19 Nov 2012 at 9.13am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #88
Very interesting stuff and a cut above the usual, often ill-qualified posts. Great input from Jason and Terry and I would be very interested to hear what Tom has to say about Jason's end question in post #88.

I introduced the Dennis Gander idea of tapered butt rings, as proposed many years ago (possibly even before carbon rods came along, which may have had something to do with the proposal), simply to diversify the debate and it seems to me it has done just that. I think the thread starter has his answers, but there has been plenty of food for thought along the way.

Many thanks for the informative posts.
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   Old Thread  #88 19 Nov 2012 at 0.20am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Thanks for our input Tel.... always a pleasure to hear you mate to be honest


so to recap to the OP...

If you are using heavier flouro then 50s are the way forward and what you will have to use (Heavier line) if you use powerful rods as they are synonymous with coupling them with heavy leads to gt the required range....

Alternatively you could use really light leads (up to 3oz) as you prefer with the 2.25TC rods coupled with the smaller eyes and light line straight through as the rods are more forgiving (the flouro i use is 12lb and 0.30mm) and these will be fantastic fishing rods (not casting machines) and would appear to be exactly what you are after in that you want to keep the leads light.....

You would also be safe in the knowledge that if you need to put an ounce lead 120+ yds with say 10lb line straight through then again they would perform admirably.

Conversely they are capable of putting 6oz of weight 100+yds also so bags would be ok, not to mention 2.5 - 3oz leads 165yds+

I wonder how many of these more powerful rods with 50mm ringing would be capable of casting that diversity of weight, them ranges..

They are after all fishing rods we are all after aren't we and as such cover a variety of functions to suit varying situations....

As Bream boy has alluded to the rods that the Anglers workshop produce are the best 'Fishing rods' you can buy IMHO

They are quite capable at casting also and offer a good alternative to the usual 50's 3.5TC rods that are available.

One question if i may to Tom Pollard - if you test a set of identical rods with a set of 50s on and 30's please test the rods output with both sets of eyes on - Hook them up to a set of scales and see what they will pull. You might be surprised in how much extra power the lighter eyes will allow the rods to put out at full test curve with the same person holding the rod having to yield....

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   Old Thread  #87 18 Nov 2012 at 11.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #77
I wish people would stop talking about those bloody rods, I have only just managed to convince myself not to sell a few of my major organs to fund the purchase of a set after having a chuck with Razorback's ones.

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   Old Thread  #86 18 Nov 2012 at 10.56pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #67
Bigger ring,, bigger friction surface area


I think that when using thick wiry line more friction would be caused by trying to reduce the coils through a smaller guide, the smaller the guide the greater the friction
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   Old Thread  #85 18 Nov 2012 at 9.52pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
The way I see it is why would you have 40's over 50's, what advantages does having a smaller butt ring have over a bigger one?.

We're as if you decide to use a heavy stiff mono or Fluoro the advantages of having a 50 come in to play.

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   Old Thread  #84 18 Nov 2012 at 9.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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   Old Thread  #83 18 Nov 2012 at 9.01pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #82
i would be happy with both but with fluoro i do prefer 50mms for sure
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   Old Thread  #82 18 Nov 2012 at 9.00pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #80
40mm is a great all round ringing and the difference over 200 yards isnt much

Last question , so if you were the average guy, not a casting machine hitting anywhere near 200 yards lol, would you go for 50s or 40s, for fishing with ?
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   Old Thread  #81 18 Nov 2012 at 8.54pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #80
this is definately my thoughts at this present time so no more from me ha ha

also if any of you are on facebook look me up on terry edmonds (longrange angler) some interesting stuff on there that may help

Hope this is ok to post that????

if it isnt sorry
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   Old Thread  #80 18 Nov 2012 at 8.52pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #78
40mm is a great all round ringing and the difference over 200 yards isnt much

not sure what the hinderance is with 50mms except maybe knocking them in transport

try 70mm lol
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   Old Thread  #79 18 Nov 2012 at 8.51pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #77
yes it will work with lines under 0.30mm any higher and bigger rings come into play and with fluoro bigger rings are the only choice

thicker lines equals heavier leads to get distance 0.35 went 190 + today and 0.32mm was going 210 + on 5 ounce leads

2.25 is only a figure action and taper effects casting more than TC

funnily enough i cast a 10ft scope 201 yards with braid the other day on a small reel and small ringing stick 0.30mm mono on it its a different story
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   Old Thread  #78 18 Nov 2012 at 8.47pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #75


Apologies for sending the tread off track.

Makes sense that a thicker diameter heavier line will past through bigger rings easier,, however does that makeup for the hindrance 50s can cause to a blank compared to 40mm ringing for the average man !
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   Old Thread  #77 18 Nov 2012 at 8.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #74
Fair point about the thicker diameter lines and the smaller ringing, but lets be honest, when were talking distance fishing we tend to steer away from thicker diameters as overall it hinders achievable distance considerably, the rod were on about is after all a 2.25 tc rod never intended to cast big distances. but proves what can be achieved with smaller ringing.
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   Old Thread  #76 18 Nov 2012 at 8.42pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #75
K series are also worth a look on the butt ring only though for me or reverse your butt ring lol

http://www.nashtackle.co.uk/the-big-butt-debate----terry-edmonds.newsArticle
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   Old Thread  #75 18 Nov 2012 at 8.40pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #73
In the distant past this thread was about casting with fluoro not just casting further, according to tel 50's will help... Good enough for me
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   Old Thread  #74 18 Nov 2012 at 8.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #73
i found that very interesting with the 30mm rings and on the light lines it worked well but i wouldnt of wanted to use it with 35.mm line and a 4.5 ounce lead

i tried the low riders out when they first came out and had nothing but trouble even though fuji were saying the were the next best thing
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   Old Thread  #73 18 Nov 2012 at 8.36pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #70
Iam sure there is a handful of people in extreme conditions who might benefit from them, such as yourself,, but were talking about the average guy. What did you make of the Anglers Workshop build rods on a recent tutorial which go against the grain of big rings.
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   Old Thread  #72 18 Nov 2012 at 8.36pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Robby, Danny used 50mms when he cast he records to he is very technical about his set up more so than me
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   Old Thread  #71 18 Nov 2012 at 8.33pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Who are we to doubt the experiences of a world class caster...
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   Old Thread  #70 18 Nov 2012 at 8.29pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #69
not sure m8 i can only tell you of my experiences from casting and what all the best casters use

its all a matter of choice and what you believe is correct

and an interesting fact is that i cast all my uk records on a harrison rod and 50mm ringing, when i was working as a consultant for Steve (who is a great guy i might add)
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   Old Thread  #69 18 Nov 2012 at 8.26pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #68
Correct me if iam wrong, but havent harrison now stated that 50 ringing aint the way forward ?
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   Old Thread  #68 18 Nov 2012 at 8.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #67
im not going to go to indepth with views and opinions on this only what i have experienced and what ive seen

all world records,uk records from 18gram plugs to 200 grams have all been cast on 50mm rings and above

for my distance fishing i prefer and use 50mm as does all the best casters i know not only do i know they work better with sensible diameter carp lines o.30mm and above i also know ther work better with fluoro, also there is less line wrap around the butt ring

I have tried many guides with the standard 0.35mm carp lines and bigger ones work better with this diameter line and big pits

Flip side if you use smaller rings on smaller diameter line and braids there will be no difference

40mm is a good all round ring size and doesnt put you at a disadvantage

today i was casting a 5ounce lead and a 0.35mm line 190 that wouldnt of been possible with smaller eyes, if it was 0.28 0r 0.26mm small eyes would of worked well
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   Old Thread  #67 18 Nov 2012 at 7.35pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Bigger ring,, bigger friction surface area.
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   Old Thread  #66 17 Nov 2012 at 8.15pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I have tried a direct comparison with 16lb tigerline on a 2 3/4 infinity x one built with 40mm and one with 50mm, it does cast better with the 50mm ring there is less noise and clatter.

I generally use technium reels but i have also have tried smaller spooled reels such as the shimano mini pit size with tigerline and these also benifitted with the 50mm guide , imo the bigger the reel the more you gain with 50's i also think this also applies with thick mono 0.35 upwards, i agree with tom's post about thinner mono's having little effect with ring size

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   Old Thread  #65 17 Nov 2012 at 6.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #57

Awesome Tom, look forward to that
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   Old Thread  #64 17 Nov 2012 at 6.16pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Without a ****in shadow!
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   Old Thread  #63 17 Nov 2012 at 11.33am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #60
FYI Keith...No need to make the same point twice...

1st line of Tom's post...Guys, maybe stick to the OPS post.
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   Old Thread  #62 17 Nov 2012 at 10.46am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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   Old Thread  #59 17 Nov 2012 at 9.31am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Definately some of us....
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   Old Thread  #58 17 Nov 2012 at 8.49am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Good points, well made, Tom...I think that at times many of us are all guilty of posting from deeply entrenched positions that allow for little or no compromise...
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   Old Thread  #57 17 Nov 2012 at 8.44am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
Guys, maybe stick to the OPS post.

We all know you can cast miles using 30mm rings and soft line.
Soft ine will go through any size butt ring easily and the butt ring size will make little difference.


We also all know that try casting with 30mm butt rings and modern carp gear, a heavy weigh flouro line and a large spooled reel, all you will end up with is a rod in the bushes from frustration.

The heavier/ stiffer line such as 16/20lb Tigerline or Xline work much better with 50mm ringing, a lightweight fast action rod and a flick style cast.
50 minima ringing is where its at for flouro fishing, super light and little effect on tip speed.
The line is unforgiving and needs to be used in a certain way.

When I get chance I'll do an article on distance flouro fishing an upload it on here.
I'll rig the same rods up with different ringing and show the differnce it makes with modern reels.


I'll also change to 10lb line and show how little difference the ringing then makes
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   Old Thread  #56 17 Nov 2012 at 6.28am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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What, with 2lb BS line as well ?
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   Old Thread  #55 16 Nov 2012 at 11.30pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #50
In this case, maybe something could be learnt from the way a float rod is ringed? In terms of the softness of a float rod and the weight of the float and shots used. Surprising how far a float can be cast.

Obviously im aware to get the most out of a rod you need to match it to the right sized lead, but just maybe, taking design ideas from the match world, and having more rings, possibly even smaller, might just aid in casting
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   Old Thread  #54 16 Nov 2012 at 10.38pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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If memory serves from the 100s of threads on this discussion and tels response to them.....it makes very little difference at all adding perhaps 10 yards onto a long range cast. Helps serve purposes but for a big distance gain....no.
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   Old Thread  #52 16 Nov 2012 at 9.28pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
50s will get you more distance, end of discussion.

Where's Tel when you need him.
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   Old Thread  #51 16 Nov 2012 at 8.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
so 'm just wanting to know if casting with 50mm butt rings would make much difference in your opinions?

No, 50s have killed many a decent blank.
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   Old Thread  #50 16 Nov 2012 at 4.39pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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I have had a couple of lessons off Tel and he is a top man to be honest.

His take on it is that 50mm butt rings are the way forward and will out perform smaller ringing with thicker line however is 'open-minded' though. Thinner lines = nothing in it...

All the evidence i have seen in ringing up an old set of AK47's i have is that they perform much better with smaller eyes (and lots of them) fitted than a set of 50's. (in fact ridiculously so that i had to take some of them off as they were too powerful)

Another reason for this is that the smaller eyes (and lots of them) pick up and spread the load more evenly over the rod meaning each section is handling less load and as a consequence makes the rods more powerful.....
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   Old Thread  #49 16 Nov 2012 at 3.54pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #45


70mm'rs next
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   Old Thread  #48 16 Nov 2012 at 3.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #44
He recently wrote an article on the Nash website about this if anyone wishes to c&p it
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   Old Thread  #47 16 Nov 2012 at 2.34pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Considering they're in competition with one another and most are sponsored by rod manufacturers I'd expect they've tried everything, wouldn't you?
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   Old Thread  #46 16 Nov 2012 at 2.30pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Did they ever use small ringing on the field?
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   Old Thread  #45 16 Nov 2012 at 2.19pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Seen more than once on here tel20 state that every record on the field was set with 50mm and above ringing.
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   Old Thread  #44 16 Nov 2012 at 2.14pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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I totally agree Laurie.
I would love to hear Tel's take on this.
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   Old Thread  #43 16 Nov 2012 at 1.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Really? I'd say apart from the fact they are better at it, there is actually no difference or does standing next to a lake instead of in a field make a difference to the dynamics of casting a lead with a rod and line??
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   Old Thread  #42 16 Nov 2012 at 1.14pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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try using Kryston Greased Lightning, cuts out frap ups and increases distance achieved.
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   Old Thread  #41 16 Nov 2012 at 12.38pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #40
There is a slight difference between tournament casting on a field and fishing, well there is if i could hook a fish
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   Old Thread  #40 16 Nov 2012 at 10.18am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Do you really believe tournament casters wouldn't all have there rods ringed in this way if it truely made such a significant difference!!!!! Not like they'd give a toss about breakages of mass supplied rods?
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   Old Thread  #39 16 Nov 2012 at 10.15am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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i think that fashion plays a big part too , i see guys using gear for fishing small pools that would be equally at home fishing for cod in the Bristol channel .
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   Old Thread  #38 16 Nov 2012 at 9.45am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #35
Very interesting post, Jason, and thought provoking to boot!

@ Keith: I am sure you must remember the Gander ringing debate of the late 70s...? I think the overall conclusion was that anglers weren't ready for such a radical approach and thus it would never catch on. As Jason posts, reducing rod slap is surely one of the most important aspects of the ringing of any blank...

I look at my Korums and also at my early Fox Ethos 2.25lb test rods, all of which feature that same principle and are capable of casting surprisingly long distances.
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   Old Thread  #37 16 Nov 2012 at 7.56am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
When it comes to rings for distance casting I would follow the advice of tournament casters such as tel20 who all seem to advocate 50s
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   Old Thread  #36 16 Nov 2012 at 6.22am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #35
That doesn't "totally" add up if you are using Minima rings to reduce the weight and the rod design [wall thickness, o/d thickness, taper and ring positions] has been carried out by a rod designer with a carbon fibre engineering background of F1 racing.
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   Old Thread  #35 15 Nov 2012 at 11.11pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #27
Not all rod builders Ken,

But one that i know / respect. As does Steve Harrison and is considered an 'expert' on rod dynamics and performance did....

What you describe is virtually how the ringing on my rods are set up by him - 12 ft rod - 30 - 16 10 8 8 8 and an 8 tip on a set of 2.25 TC rods coupled with basiair's. I use flouro in 12lb and comfortably cast 100yds+.with 3oz leads. All eyes are Fuji 'K' series anti frap guides....

The same rods are capable of over 160 with 10lb pro clear straight though..

The 'theory' that you are referring to (i think) is that there is some conjecture in whether to take the hit of the big coil at the first eye and then get the line under control through the rest of the rod OR gradually reduce the cone and let the line to sort its self out.....

All the evidence i have seen (utilising the Harison approved rod designer i use and experience of different ringing on the same rod) is that the cumulative effect of the line hitting the blank (large ringing pattern) all the way up the rod will cause more friction than any Butt ring taking the hit first, and once under control, the line never touching the rod again....(small ringing pattern)

Fuji have done loads of tests on this and actually refer the the butt ring as the 'chocker ring'......in their tests the smaller ringing pattern outperformed the larger rings significantly...

The smaller rings (particularly towards the tip) were also obviously found to be a lot lighter and thus aided the rods performance on the same blank.

In essence what you lose on one hand with the smaller rings (in general on the rod) in respect of 'Chocking' the line at the start, is a massive gain by having the lightness of the smaller rings at the tip section (furthest away) which makes the rod perform better and stay longer during the cast thus increasing lead speed.

Conversely the larger rings (which don't choke the line as much at the start but progressively) are larger thus heavier and soften the rod significantly making the rod shorter during the cast this reducing lead speed....

Think of it like a see-saw....tiny addition in weights on a long lever will impart more load on rods and the difference in static and dynamic load is about 16* near the tip section.

Therefore an additional ounce weight will impart and an additional 16oz of dynamic load during a cast...hence why you only need a 3oz lead to fully compress a 3.0lb TC rod .....weight kills performance and if you were to take the rings off, for example, a HiSive it would pull about a 6 - 7lb TC......

I will leave you(s) to think why the 50mm - 16mm (heavier) rings are so advocated by manufacturers...

The cynics amongst us might argue that they can be used to soften blanks, with thicker walled more powerful rods......and as a consequence not get as many breakages to the masses.....

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   Old Thread  #34 15 Nov 2012 at 9.52pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
I feel that if it makes any difference it depends on the diameter of your spool. The bigger the spool size the bigger the coils of line leaving the spool. Thinner line will come off of smaller spools easier.
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   Old Thread  #33 15 Nov 2012 at 7.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
thanks for clearing that up, ive always wondered as ive had various difference's and couldnt understand
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   Old Thread  #32 15 Nov 2012 at 5.28pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #28
Inside of the metal frame - or outside of the liner if you like
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   Old Thread  #31 15 Nov 2012 at 5.16pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #26
i can only reiterate what buddi has said ive used rods with all types of ringing sizes and patterns and i cant chuck my hi sives with 50s any further than i can with my mag tapers with high stand off 40s with flouro (diff story with mono) which infact cause less fuss than the first mentioned
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   Old Thread  #30 15 Nov 2012 at 5.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #28
I'd imagine it's the frame that's 40-50mm
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   Old Thread  #29 15 Nov 2012 at 5.02pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #28
i think thats prob manufacturer dependant i know the fuji high stand off 40`s are more like 36-38 mm id
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   Old Thread  #28 15 Nov 2012 at 3.13pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
is the 40mm-50mm measured from the outside of the ring or the diameter of the inner circle?
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   Old Thread  #27 15 Nov 2012 at 11.42am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I have a set of Korum rods in 2.50lb test, which has 30mm butt rings and will handle 2oz leads with ease, chucking them 90-100 yards with 11lb mono. This drops to about 75-80 yards with 15lb Illusion. Reels are Stratos FS10000.

I am sure you can remember, Keith, the discussions that went on back in the late 70s when sea angling mega caster Dennis Gander (and others) actually advocated a specially designed tapered butt ring of 40-12mm that reduced the coils instantly. Subsequent rings were all the same size - 12mm if memory serves me right. Tests showed that this set up cast longer with heavy leads. As this idea was not taken up by rod builders I can only assume it was less effective than was first hoped!

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   Old Thread  #26 15 Nov 2012 at 11.25am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #25
i really dont know what to think on the subject anymore ......i have had so many conflicting experiences ,

i have an old set of northwestern kevlites in 2.25 lb test fitted with 30mm rings and 6000 series shimanos , loaded with 12lb test ultima pure fluro ...........i am consistantly hitting around 90mtr with 1.5 to 2 oz leads . Yet when i was using hi-sives , with 50`s , techs and 4oz leads i was only making around another 15-20 mtrs ..........i think the main reason for this was i am not a skilled enough caster to compress the blank with an overhead thump . I now use infinitys in 2.75 lb with tourneys and fluro .........the rods have a fairly fast action and high stand off ringing but a reasonably light test curve so i can now compress them without resorting to heavier leads .

i think there is no real answer and the problems with frapping when using fluro or trying to achieve distance are more to do with synergy , matching all the components to the anglers ability as well as each other
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   Old Thread  #25 14 Nov 2012 at 6.34pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #13
A 2oz lead with 0.33 line will need a mega chuck to do 100 yards

I definitely don't agree with that. Maybe it's my turn to get argumentative but a good technique with compressing the rod should put a 2oz lead way past the 100 yard mark, even with fluoro.
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   Old Thread  #24 14 Nov 2012 at 6.32pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #19
You would have to ask the question then Keith, is it the rod or is it the coning??

I would suggest it is the rod as the big coil (from the reel) has to eventually get out of the 16mm tip ring....


I'm not totally convinced because I did initially switch to a 2.75 TC rod but without the bigger rings and it was not much better than the 3.25's. However, as soon as I received the 2.75's with 50mm coning the difference was immence and the light leads sail out with barely a whisper from the line now.
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   Old Thread  #23 14 Nov 2012 at 6.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
How much difference does the shape of lead make?
A 3oz square pear seems to compress my rods more than a 3oz tournament lead
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   Old Thread  #22 14 Nov 2012 at 5.09pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #19
Good read Jason. Cheers

To Summarise:
1) Poor release timing with the wrong weight of lead, while using a very large-spooled reel, fitted to a rod with 50mm rings = BAD
2) Good release timing with the correct weight of lead, while using a medium- spool sized reel, fitted to a rod with smaller rings = GOOD
Do note though, that the butt ring size is only a small contributor to frapping. It's the other factors that really cause the problems.
Use a smaller-spooled reel with a good line, get you release timing right, with the correct lead and your frapping days are numbered.
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   Old Thread  #21 14 Nov 2012 at 4.54pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
I would go up to 3.5 oz and hit it hard, shouldn't give any problems.
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   Old Thread  #20 14 Nov 2012 at 4.53pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #15
Cheers guys! I will try my 2.75lb Powermesh X and see if I get better results with that. If I'm using smaller leads for most of my fishing now I will have to consider getting rods more suited to the lead size maybe...
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   Old Thread  #19 14 Nov 2012 at 4.51pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #5
You would have to ask the question then Keith, is it the rod or is it the coning??

I would suggest it is the rod as the big coil (from the reel) has to eventually get out of the 16mm tip ring....

Mark Tunley did an article a while back on 50mm ringing patterns.

Here - http://www.marktunley.com/bad%20casting.htm

Makes interesting reading...
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   Old Thread  #18 14 Nov 2012 at 4.50pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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Argumentative is a strong word... Maybe opinionated is more fitting?
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   Old Thread  #17 14 Nov 2012 at 4.45pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #16
argumentative? moi?
i have no idea where you got that impression jon, really i dont.....

ok, so i mis-read the post & answered the wrong one, you got me........
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   Old Thread  #16 14 Nov 2012 at 4.43pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #15

Not calling you argumentative here Brian... But that admission is a real collectors item in internet history given your usual witty style of retort
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   Old Thread  #15 14 Nov 2012 at 4.35pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #14
it IS the rod at fault isn't it?

indeed, you are correct!
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   Old Thread  #14 14 Nov 2012 at 4.22pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #12
I appreciate that Brian, the chap however wants to cast a light lead and heavy fluoro a long way so by process of elimination it IS the rod at fault isn't it?
Had he asked how can I cast further with these rods then a bigger lead would be the answer, but he's asked how can he cast further with a small lead. If it won't compress the blank properly which it clearly won't, simple answer would be easy to compress fast recovery rods surely
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   Old Thread  #13 14 Nov 2012 at 4.15pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #12
A 2oz lead with 0.33 line will need a mega chuck to do 100 yards
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   Old Thread  #12 14 Nov 2012 at 4.12pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #11
How can you be so sure?

because a 3lb outcast is not going to perform its best with a lead 2oz or smaller,
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   Old Thread  #11 14 Nov 2012 at 3.29pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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How can you be so sure?
There are tools made specifically for this purpose that will obviously outperform others
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   Old Thread  #10 14 Nov 2012 at 3.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #9
bigger lead
its not the rod
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   Old Thread  #9 14 Nov 2012 at 1.37pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #8
Thanks All. Very helpful stuff there.

For the record I was using Mitchell Avocast 8000's (huge spools) on 3lb Chub Outkast rods, just didn't seem to get on very well even on 2oz leads (heaviest I use really). Really had to give it some to reach 80 yards. I fish up to 120 yards...

I also have some old Powermesh X rods so will try them and see if they are any better first. I have 2 3/4 and 3lb in those versions so will experiment.

Cheers

Daniel.
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   Old Thread  #8 14 Nov 2012 at 1.24pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #7
Spool size definitely has a big impact, so that and the action of the blank are the first things I'd look at
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   Old Thread  #7 14 Nov 2012 at 1.07pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #6
I've gone back to 2.75's with 40-16mm ringing using fluoro and 1-2oz leads and haven't suffered a single frap up. I use 5000t's which don't have huge spools and I had the butt ring fitted as far as possible up the blank, both of which I think helps. If you're rods don't have a nice crisp action and compress properly with light leads then bigger ringing will make little difference and the extra weight could theoretically work against you.

I totally agree with you on all those points and I should have added that I use Shimano Tech's so the spools seem to work best with 50mm butt rings and I had Minima rings throughout, except for the tip ring, in order to keep the weight to a minimum.
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   Old Thread  #6 14 Nov 2012 at 12.58pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
I've gone back to 2.75's with 40-16mm ringing using fluoro and 1-2oz leads and haven't suffered a single frap up. I use 5000t's which don't have huge spools and I had the butt ring fitted as far as possible up the blank, both of which I think helps. If you're rods don't have a nice crisp action and compress properly with light leads then bigger ringing will make little difference and the extra weight could theoretically work against you.
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   Old Thread  #5 14 Nov 2012 at 12.47pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
I have used fluoro with light leads for a number of years now and the "standard" ringing on my previous sets of "off the shelf" rods caused terrible frapping and loss of distance. It didn't help that the rods were the current "normal" 3.25lb TC so weren't compressing properly. I switched to 2.75lb TC rods and had them built with 50mm ringing, that is to say ring coning of 50, 40, 30, 20, 18, and a 16mm tip ring and the casting with 1.5 and 2 oz leads is superb.
Hope that helps.
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   Old Thread  #4 14 Nov 2012 at 12.35pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
I'm finding casting any distances a bit of challenge as I use the lightest leads possible.

so what distances are you looking at achieving??
are you considering buying new rods for this, or having the bigger rings fitted to your current rods??
because if you insist on using the lightest leads that will have a big bearing on the choice.

personally, i`d just increase the lead size..........
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   Old Thread  #3 14 Nov 2012 at 12.33pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
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In a word ........ no ...............
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   Old Thread  #2 14 Nov 2012 at 12.32pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1
I would say it depends on the reels you are using and how the line comes off the reel. I use big pits loaded with Tiger Line and have 40mm butt rings. I've had no issues casting up to 90 yards using a suitable size lead. I always wet the rings before casting and the line too.
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   Old Thread  #1 14 Nov 2012 at 12.13pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Hi All,

I'm now using a flourocarbon line for the first time after switching from mono for slack lines and my current rods only have 40mm butt rings. I'm finding casting any distances a bit of challenge as I use the lightest leads possible. The flouro I'm using is only 0.33 in diameter so 'm just wanting to know if casting with 50mm butt rings would make much difference in your opinions?

Many thanks
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