|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #41
No that isn't what I said at all. Read it again, and if you've seen my posting on here previously you'd see dropping leads is one of my major issues with carp angling today
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #39
Thats just ridiculous.
You reckon you must drop the lead every time, irrespective of the lake conditions... really!
I only want to drop the lead if there is a real need, like a very weedy lake, snags, etc.
|
|
|
|
I tend to use the fox lead clips with the pegs and in the weedy lake I fish, I lose around 90% of the leads on the take.
I recently changed over to Korda hybrid ones and lost only 10% (over about 20 takes).
My conclusion: the arms on the Fox ones are not as stiff and even if the rubber doesn't come off, the arms tend to pull out and release the leads.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #38
No, it's essential fullstop, irrelevant of if you want to drop the lead or not
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #33
I never said locking the swivel into a lead clip was an error. Thats essential if you set it up to drop the lead.
I said that locking the swivel in AND jamming the tail rubber on was the error.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #35
Keep saying it and maybe they will listen. And don't drop the lead on a heli.
|
|
| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
|
In reply to Post #35
I know mate, my post wasn’t a reply to yours. Just a general point about leadcore 
|
|
| | | BRB | | Posts: 1385 |  | |
|
In reply to Post #34
Hi Noj, I'm referring to the use of lead clips generally. Totally agree if you really have to use leadcore then it is helicopters.
|
|
| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
|
The lead discharging is neither here nor there really.
Having a rig permanently fixed to the leadcore is the problem as the weight of it means it will be hanging down waiting to snag something. A heli set up SHOULD allow it to rid the hooklink; wether running, in-line or leadclip by being fixed to the end it’s a ‘death rig’
|
|
| | | BRB | | Posts: 1385 | | |
|
In reply to Post #32
Even at this stage of the thread people still talking of locking the swivel in as user error - amazing.
Edit, referring to post 31.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #31
That's the same with any lead clip chap, irrelevant of make the tail rubber can be pushed on too far. And they need to clip in to the swivel to make them safe
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #30
The original korda clips with the swivel clicked into place and the ribbed arm to hold the tail rubber on are the worse...
Yes they can be fished safety, but far too easy for idiots to lock the swivel in, and then also ram the tail rubber all the way on...
No need for the ribbed section to give extra grip for the tail rubber at all.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #29
It illustrates the fact that leadclips with the tail rubber pushed fully onto the clip are not fish friendly semi-fixed rigs. They become lethal fixed rigs which have been banned on most lakes for decades. Have only ever landed three fish trailing line, all of the rigs involved included line clips.
|
|
|
|
Two rig horror stories showing how the use and abuse of lead clips can lead to huge problems. In both cases the lead has not discharged and the set up on the right includes leadcore which probably caused the tangles after the rig cracked off..
PB Products Hit and Run clip is the ONLY one I would ever consider using.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #21
Excellent points, fully agree.
FYI - Arnie the Common was Orchid lakes, which obviously now bans all leaders.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #26
Which makes the rig potentially dangerous....as well as relying on the leader not being tangled or kinked to prevent it sliding off
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #23
To clarify, he refers to the lead clip passing over the knot and onto the main line, so that when he is playing a fish the lead clip and lead is above the knot.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #20
Actually mentions using leadcore with those clips
And them clips automatically drop the lead
So they are a no no aswell lol
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #22
I know mate, it's worrying when people use things like lead core when they don't even seem to understand how a lead clip works...
|
|
|
|
Agreed, lead clips and leadcore are not suitable to be used together...
If the clip is getting stuck on the top knot when playing a fish then it just shows what will happen if and when the rig is lost due to a mainline breakage... Let alone if the top knot was carrying a bit of weed too.
Helicopter rigs all the way with leadcore imo... Ideally with a no trace bead or similar
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #18
Stupid is as stupid does Ian. Some people just don't or won't listen and blindy carry on fishing like this regardless.
He's even misunderstood the lake owner, who is quite right in saying that leadcore can be fished safely. But absolutely not with a leadclip and absolutely not on a running leadclip.
He won't be told though so just be glad he's not fishing anywhere you might be.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #16
My set up is not a potential death rig as the rubber tail with lead clip easily runs over my mono knot with the slightest resistance. As mentioned, lead core is a must on my water as there are too many obstacles in them.
I had a debate with an established lake owner about leadcore and he reckoned that it’s safe to use if used properly and that if he’d tied 15lb mono to my ankles and ask me to swim out of a snag I wouldn’t be able too...
Sorry, your set up is a potential death rig, anything with leadcore is!
If you have to use leadcore, then do go back to a helicopter set-up, but even then.
I know exactly where Ken is coming from with his mentioning Keith Moors, and Keith Moors wrote an article in Advanced Carp Fishing after I sent them some experiment results that I undertook with leadcore set-ups, and argued about the safety of a leadcore set-up they published in an article.
First thing that worried me was where I got smashed up on a weedy water with a running lead set-up. The gravel bars were severe enough to cut me off above the leadcore. The fish would be trailing the rig and leadcore, even if the lead was ejected.
I'll go back to my experiments, carried out in a water in winter where I was able to retrieve any smashed rigs, lost fish etc.
If any pendant (read lead clip, run ring) or inline lead setup got broken above the leadcore, then the fish were trailing the whole lot. A helicopter rig, the rig had to be able to come off the leadcore.
The first place lost fish swam to was the snags to recover or hide.
If they were trailing any length of leadcore over around 300mm, 1 foot, then they could get tethered to the branches or twigs, it was able to wrap round them. I had to go in in the winter up to my chest, to release fish, one of my own losses, and another that had been there for a period of time.
I tested a few brands of leadcore; some would kink, preventing beads from sliding, on some the lead would push through the weave, preventing anything anything sliding over it. No brand was 100%.
There is NO WAY that a fish, of any size, could snap 45lb leadcore, not with a hook in the mouth, if tethered to a snag. With leadcore wrapped around forceps I struggled to break it. The forceps bent first, and the leadcore just tightened into the branch I wrapped it round.
You could hope the fish rips its mouth if it breaks free..
Leadcore if it has wrapped around a twig or stick, can then tangle and catch up weed. The fish is then towing a ball of weed and rubbish. Ask Keith Moors what happens then!
I think it was Linear, Arnie the big common was found tethered to trees, very dead, caught up on leadcore.
Suffolk Water Park I believe lost the Grey Fish, (Clare Park fish) to being snagged up and tethered on leadcore.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #14
it looks like the pin is fixed through the lead clip and swivel eye preventing the clip from moving at all? If that’s the case, would the fish be able to lose the lead if broken up (rare occasion)?
The whole point about a fixed clip is thast it allows the lead to come off when required. The very last thing youy want is for the clip + the lead to detach from the swivel, running up and down the line, even it it can slide over the leader knot. If you are concerned that on the rare occasions that you get snapped up the lead may not discharge then hold the jaws of the clip together with PVA string.
Alternatively use the MCF Dumper System. Dennis McFetrich is probably one of the most successful big carp angler you have never heard of, which is how he likes it!!!
LINK - McFetrich Dumper Lead Clip
|
|
| | | BRB | | Posts: 1385 | | |
|
In reply to Post #18
They just dont get it IP100.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #14
Your rig is a potential death rig BECAUSE the clip and tail rubber pass over the knot too. That means that the clip can come away from the swivel, therefore not allowing the lead to come off of the clip. If your leadcore then gets tangles or kinked, or somethings stuck on the knot then you are left with a length of leadcore with a fish at one end and a lead at the other. This has potential to become snagged up tethering the fish as the clip itself could become jammed even if the lead does manage to come off. Lead clips and lead core don't mix, simple
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #14
I agree with your conclusion. I like using leadcore but for safety will only ever use on a helicopter style setup. I cringe when I see it used with a lead clip even though I have seen it used by some very good anglers, I simply cannot bring myself to use it. For me it is either lead clips with tubing, running rigs naked or helicopter rigs with leadcore which then covers virtually any scenario I tend to face
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #14
I had a debate with an established lake owner about leadcore and he reckoned that it’s safe to use if used properly and that if he’d tied 15lb mono to my ankles and ask me to swim out of a snag I wouldn’t be able too...
I can think of one very well known and hugely respected lake owner who would take great issue with "your" lake owner! If you are on Facebook message this guy. He'll put you straight. He could write a book about the dangers of leadcore.
Keith Moors.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #14
So going back to the tackle end, it looks like the pin is fixed through the lead clip and swivel eye preventing the clip from moving at all? If that’s the case, would the fish be able to lose the lead if broken up (rare occasion)?
Yes and Yes mate, as long the tail rubber is not forced too far on then the leadwill come off easy enough or on the take should it need to
|
|
|
|
Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.
My set up is not a potential death rig as the rubber tail with lead clip easily runs over my mono knot with the slightest resistance. As mentioned, lead core is a must on my water as there are too many obstacles in them.
I had a debate with an established lake owner about leadcore and he reckoned that it’s safe to use if used properly and that if he’d tied 15lb mono to my ankles and ask me to swim out of a snag I wouldn’t be able too...
So going back to the tackle end, it looks like the pin is fixed through the lead clip and swivel eye preventing the clip from moving at all? If that’s the case, would the fish be able to lose the lead if broken up (rare occasion)?
I think I may go back to helicopter rigs maybe if I can’t find a solution,
Thanks again
|
|
| | | BRB | | Posts: 1385 | | |
|
In reply to Post #12
This thread goes to show the misconceptions that still exist regarding what is a safe rig. Over the years there have been some horrors on here which some think are ok. The common denominators are always leadcore and leaders, methods that are often championed by the so called media stars of carp fishing.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
What you have described is a dangerous set up made double so by the use of leadcore.
This should never happen:
Alway use a clip that can be firmly attached to the swivel with a pin such as this one from Fox.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Sounds like the swivel isnt chunky enough to be as tight as needed in the lead clip so its only lighly semi fixed.
This isnt an issue as i mostly fish like this when it isnt snaggy or weedy and there is no need to positively drop the lead.
If you want the lead clip to be a little tighter then take a small loop of mainline and pass through the top eye of the swivel that joins your leadcore and then as you pull the swivel into the clip you will then have two mono tag ends coming out of the lead clip alongside the swivel.
This will slightly tighten the swivel in the clip but then still allow it to release the swivel should the fish shake around too much. I find the lead clip moving away from the swivel helps prevent hook pulls.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #6
Leadcore can kink severely and the lead can also come through the weave which has the potential to impede the tubing and swivel sliding over the knot.
Leadcore and lead clips are a no-no - potential for snagging up is not a price the fish should pay. Not entirely risk free but a drop off inline lead would be much safer option.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
I use a meter of leadcore tied to 15lb mono main line. At the tackle end the leadcore is then tied to a size 8 quick change swivel with a standard lead clip attached including rubber tail.
The problem I have is on a pick up the lead clip with lead always ends up by the mono knot 1 meter up the line which isn’t ideal when playing a fish.
Is there anyway I can prevent this happening without a potential death rig? Seems like the lead clip is too loose around the swivel?
Secondly i wouldn't use a leadclip with leadcore as in the event of a line break the fish could still be trailing a length of leader plus line which could still become tethered
I'm with Woody, do NOT use a lead clip (or run ring) setup on leadcore. If you have a break off then the fish is trailing leadcore, even if the lead has ejected. Trailing leadcore can catch up on weed or any snags, leading to a tether rig.
If you have to use leadcore, the shortest length possible, with a helicopter set-up, but you must make sure that the rig can be ejected.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #6
Fox
ESP adjustable
Pb products hit and run are just 3
|
|
|
|
Thanks for all the replies,
Tubing is not the answer as there are bars and other potential snags in my water.
The rubber tail and clip effortlessly passes over my mono knot so it’s not a real risk.
If anyone could post a link to a different lead clip type to be used with lead core that’ll be great.
I could use chod’s but prefer the standard setup.
Thanks
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Is the leadclip 'clicking' into the swivel? if not thats the problem as the ring isn't sitting inside the clip housing properly.
If your tieing the swivel on to the leadcore and not splicing this will prevent the clicking sound as the knot will be too big to go inside properly.
if its still happening then as said try the peg ones, i presume your using a 'carp' brand size 8 swivel and not a rounder shape type as that might cause an issue too with it going in but popping out again as there ever so slightly smaller to 'click' in
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Firstly you would be better off changing the type of lead clip you use for one that either attaches to your swivel via a locating pin or a leadclip that has a swivel built in so the leadclip cannot move away from your swivel, only the lead can eject if needed.
Secondly i wouldn't use a leadclip with leadcore as in the event of a line break the fish could still be trailing a length of leader plus line which could still become tethered
|
|
| | | BRB | | Posts: 1385 | | |
|
In reply to Post #1
The lead clip is meant to stay with the swivel otherwise it won't release the lead. Allowing it to move on the lead core results in exactly what you are trying to avoid - a potential death rig. I suggest you go to a weighted tubing.
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #1
Change brand to one with a peg
|
|
|
|
Good morning all!
Just a quick post regarding my tackle end.
I use a meter of leadcore tied to 15lb mono main line. At the tackle end the leadcore is then tied to a size 8 quick change swivel with a standard lead clip attached including rubber tail.
The problem I have is on a pick up the lead clip with lead always ends up by the mono knot 1 meter up the line which isn’t ideal when playing a fish.
Is there anyway I can prevent this happening without a potential death rig? Seems like the lead clip is too loose around the swivel?
|
|
