In reply to Post #73
Going back to the farm yesterday was a bit of a dead loss the farmer said he had not seen the foxes since his wife chased one on Saturday and they had lost no more hens funny. With food ready available as it is at the farm they usually keep coming , so i was off down the fields with my mate tony to see if we could find where she has the cubs well we did find where she had been under an old holly bush, but they had been moved to pastures new following a few feathers where the chickens had been pulled through the undergrowth we soon arrived at a big field full of oil seed rape well that's where they are they had rolled flat a few places from there playing, but it is an impossible task trying to find them in cover like that so it was back to the farm with the news i must admit i was not sorry to be back as my senosis is really playing up and causing sciatica down my right leg i am having physio tomorrow so i will see if it improves but the hospital says there is no cure to my problem while i write this i am in agony all down by back side and right leg but back to the foxes i have told the farmer they will be back at some stage he asked me why they had not been back since sat i said with the amount of rabbits around there is plenty of food , and maybe she took more than one hen and hid the rest and that would keep her going for a few days but make no mistake she will be back we are going to leave it until Saturday than have another look the cubs must be quite big and maybe she has stopped feeding them as they are old enough to look after there selves.
cubs playing out
But he will get a visit or two in the next few weeks maybe from the cubs as well but i have a feeling there is more than one taking his chickens so if i am able i will have a look around the adjacent woods and hedge rows they are not difficult to find usually they leave a few feathers here and there i also look for flattened nettles and undergrowth where the cubs have been out playing but if one of the local game keepers have found them they will be dead gassed, but being sandy soil its not very good gassing them as sand disperses the gas so we shall see i usually move the cubs by leaving my scent on the earth the vixen will soon move them on some times a few fields away but if they keep visiting the chicken farm and continue causing damage they will be dealt with humanly usually by shooting although i love this old rogue and have watched him for many years at times enought is enought some say the farmer should keep his hens in a secure shed but that is not free range so we will be keeping an eye on my old freind foxy to see what her next move will be. well a bit more latter

In reply to Post #74
As i walk around the old lake it brings back so many memories from long ago i find it hard to walk to far because of the pain from my affliction but i sit and rest on the old log beside the sparkling water i dream of things past, the old tree is still there where i cut into the bark making it easier to clime to look at the tawny owls nest they have used the old hole for decades, i was only 15 years old where has the time gone, i was sixty nine yesterday another year gone by, i watch the great crested grebe going to and fro with her young not very old they make such a noise calling to there mum . I look up and see the buzzard soaring on a thermal and thought of the times long ago when i climbed the old fir to her nest and held the chicks in my hand how wonderful nature is but those days have long gone no more climbing for me only dreams about when i was young.

carp from the ancient lake
A splash far out in the lake brought me to my senses it left a ring of sparkling water and then another they were carp showing as they moved down this ancient lake that once appeared in the film gone to earth. I thought about the times i fished and caught the carp from this lake i remember well my first thirty and how i shook with excitement and stared in wander at this great fish, the times i watched as the young deer came down to drink from the lake and how they were quite oblivious to where i was i lay quite and still covered in ferns and could of touched there legs, the time old foxy passed me by and nearly trod on me he was so near i could hear him breathing as i lay in the undergrowth and watched him in wonder, and not a noise did i make, those days i really miss to wonder the woods and watch the wild live its been a big part of my life, i well remember old SAM saying to me when i was young there nowt to hurt you in those woods only another human and he was right.
<

A big common from the old lake oh so long ago
To wonder the hedge rows and poach the pheasants from the great wood from under the keepers nose it was all part of my past or catch the the spotted trout from his lair under the far bank and to be beside the river in the dead of night and catch the trout on a trundled worm and be long gone before the keepers were about to take a couple of trout and hang it on the keeper door just to say i had called it was a way of saying thank you, it is all in my memory from long ago how graham and i have stood gun in hand and waited for the pheasants to soar across the ride in those ancient woods giving you some excellent shooting this was all part of my life and remains in my memory for ever well a bit more latter

In reply to Post #75
Friends used to say hell Pete you stink and i did it was usually from foxes it would get over my coat i got a few tel lings off at home but i spent a good many hours watching them and also at times there was a need to shoot them and carrying a fox across your shoulders is asking for trouble i even caught the odd flee from handling them but they will not live on humans very long i suppose a lot of my life time has been spent watching and following foxes but i still say he is a wonderful old fellow with his rustic coat and the country side would be a sad place without him although i am not pro hunt they did a job for the local community but on the shooting front you could kill more foxes than the hunt ever sees on some of the big fox drives i have seen as many as thirteen shot in a morning but this was mostly in hill country where the foxes do great damage to the sheep farmer, the hill farmers cannot afford to loose to many lambs as it is a very hard life and the money they make is not a great lot. A lot of the farmers have second jobs to keep there heads above water so it has been a necessity to thin out the foxes in the hills funny some of the biggest foxes i have seen have been shot in hill country as i have stated before the biggest i saw was twenty eight pounds a huge fox but there has been many over twenty pounds.
A small fox
Nothing more frighting at night than a vixen screaming i have seen it put up the fear of god into people that are not used to country sounds but it can put the fear of god up country people who are out at night i remember graham and myself fishing one lake then out of the blue right behind us the vixen screamed i can tell you we were asleep in our bivies but it awoke us up with a start i think my heart missed a beat but we knew what it was but for some that don't know it really frightens them they think old nick is out there.

I have spent so many nights out in the woods i have slept there in the ferns and listened to the noises of the night and believe me there are a few we have the owls fox badger voles and such all make peculiar noises and if you do not know what they are it can be a bit off putting when i poached all those years ago i got used to the woods and its inhabitants old SAM learned me a lot about the birds and the countryside in general so over the years it has really helped me i only wish i could still do it but i know that is not an option so i now pass my knowledge to other people but i know they will not use it like i did, there is no need to poach any more and be out all hours so i really think the end is in sight there cant be many of the old poachers left and when they die there knowlege will disapear with them. well a little more latter

In reply to Post #76
I watch the rain as it hits the window pane it is muggy and over cast a few years a go i would be out with the rods i spent a lot of time fishing around Ellesmere or just about any where i could wet a line when i first fished the meres, which looking back was in the late sixties it was a far cry from fishing today. I think i fished all the meres at the time some where well known to hold big bream others tench and roach but all the years i fished those meres, i never once heard carp mentioned i suppose they must have been in the waters. But you would have thought all the time we put in some one would of hooked a carp but as far as i can reselect no one did. The Eel club off great Britain fished the meres at the same time we did, and caught some respectable big Eels there was one or two caught over the six pounds mark so there was a lot of potential to fish the meres, bites were few and far between i am sure graham would not mind me saying we fished 1972 from June until late October for one bite which i had culminating in another fish over ten pounds graham sat beside me twice a week we fished it hard and he never had one bite i can only call that dedication i suppose we both had bream fever i know we did we could not leave it alone i think it was one of the worst years i have ever fished, it was so wet it rained, and rained, there was mud every where the swims were awkward to fish because of the water rising in the mere we would trudge through mud up to our knees to even get to the swim it was not nice but we did it we decided to pull off late October and decided to give it a rest the following year and concentrate on waters nearer to home.
One of the biggest Bream i caught at ellesmere just under the British record

Graham and i were offered the lease on Berrington pool and snatched sir Reginald's hand off and called our syndicate Berry croft angling club the pool was known locally as heart break pool i soon filled the syndicate with some great friends and we set about tidying the place up making swims clearing the under growth and such at the time it was a mysterious place as i have stated before we had a bit of black magic going on down there we had a coven of witches all women who i have mentioned about in an earlier story one or two of the lads would not fish the pool at night because of the upside down crosses screwed to the old oak tree, but i must say they well made we also had one or two home made dolls hanging from, tree branches with there heads in a noose as though they had been hung a bit off putting. But graham and i gave it a go and baited up over a period of time we started to fish the place seriously around 1973 we fished in close company with Dennis Kelly renowned for his big bream exploits and chairman of stoke angling club we started to catch some beautiful Rudd Bream hybrids up to nearly five pounds lovely fish but it was not until some time latter that we started to catch the big bream that the pool held. well a bit more latter
A Berrington bream from years ago

In reply to Post #62
cracking thread .

In reply to Post #78
In reply to Post #62
cracking thread .
Thanks i apprecate that

In reply to Post #77
It was a moonlight night the wind roared over head as i made my way to the old woods i don't usually venture out on a moonlight night but i needed a pheasant or two i approached the wood and slipped in beneath the canopy of the big oaks and beech trees the leaves had mostly all gone leaving the branches exposed looking like huge skeletons i know these woods well i have roamed them since a child i stop and listen all i hear is the roaring of the wind the bark of a fox traveled on the wind maybe looking for a mate the month was November i make my way forward down wind from the keepers cottage i pass through the trees just like a ghost no noise do, i make i was heading for the big ride i already knew it had recently been strawed ,where old Gerry fed his pheasants but he was not around tonight he was in his warm bed not a care in the world no one would dare poach him but how wrong could he be i had roamed these old woods since i was a child i knew every path and walk way as thought they were my own.
The pheasent in the car
i made my way towards the ride stopping and listening but all i could hear was the creak and groaning of the big trees as they moved to and fro in the wind as i reached the ride it was on with the torch the birds were easy to see i, pick one and take aim he hits the ground in a ball of feathers i pick it up and put it Ito the bag i clear the feathers away from where the bird hit the ground and away to the next tree as i walk the ride i take the easy birds twelve in all enough for tonight i fold the gun and it joins the pheasants in the bag i make for the fields and away for home i stand and listen before i leave the woods but all is quite except for the wind as i walk across the field the rabbits run for cover to the distant hedge rows they are now recovering well from the myxomatosis a terrible disease made by man the moon shines showing up the fields like a silver sea as the grass ripples in the wind i can see the badgers five in all huddled up like giant mole hills they were feeding on the worms and feasting well, i leave them well alone and make for the old wooden bridge over the small stream i stop and listen all is quite as i make my way up the field before crossing the railway line as i come from the railway line and over the fence i stop and stare in wonder as a barn owl drifts by like a silent ghost how it managed in that wind i do not know i made my way slowly through the copies stopping now a then to listen i knew i was safe now i ,put down the bag put my back to the old oak tree and pulled my pipe from my pocket and lit it the aroma spread throughout the old copies. if foxy was there he would be well gone by now i skirted the village arriving at our house from the fields it was 3am i hung the pheasant in the shed there would be plenty for the family and neighbors as things were still hard this is the story of a night out with a young poacher some time in the late fifties. well a bit more latter

In reply to Post #80
No more do you see the gypsies around your house selling pegs like years ago they used to visit my house selling everything from lace to carpets from the back of the horse and cart i remember our mum talking to the old lady and being given a posy of heather for good luck those years have long gone its sad really as i learned so much from them. They would have there dogs lurches terriers and were never short of a meal or two old jack lock going back when i was only about six or seven would be out with his two lurches and always caught a rabbit or two i would go down to the caravans which were in the wood called the Berries they would all be around the fire smoking there clay pipes even old Mrs lock smoked her clay pipe fiddler would be playing away and they would sing along i think they were very deeply religious people as i have been down there and they have all been praying a lot of the villagers were a bit wary of them, but not me old jack even went to see my mother to see if it was alright for me to go down to the caravans i remember jack saying he will be alright misses we will look after him and they did i would have sweets biscuits pockets full, jack would take me out with him and showed me how he set a snare for the rabbit i was only young as i say he would give me a couple to carry back to the vans by the time i got back i would be tired out from carrying the rabbits, but he would say take a couple for your mam young UN she was always grateful as the war had only just finished.

Another clan lived in the gorse they were honest people true Romany's like the locks i have sat in there caravans more than once and listened to the old chap telling tales from long ago mostly about horses he loved them and had a few through his life time. It was he that gave me a sandwich i was with another friend a chap called john leading-ton and we had been up the fields shooting well poaching, with my old ferrets i suppose i would be about sixteen then as i had got my first shot gun a webley and Scot four ten it was great for bolting rabbits at close range lets get back to the sandwich after we had eaten it he said nice was it Pete yes i said. Well it was Hedge hog he said cor did i feel sick the very thought of it all i could think about was dead hedge hogs killed on the roads but thinking back it was very tasty a bit like pork but i have never had it since . It was this old gypsy that taught me how to tickle trout i will not mention his name as not to cause any embarrassment to his family, his sons are good friends of mine and now all live in houses his dear old wife lily lives about six doors from me and she has told me she would never go back on the road it was a hard life she is now quite old, her husband died years ago the true gypsies have mostly all gone now and have taken there knowledge with them, sad really there are not many true Romany's, left i know this has nothing to do with fishing but it was all part of my life i would not have missed it for the world and would do it all again if permitted i have met so many interesting people throughout my life time and all i have now is my memories well a bit more latter

In reply to Post #81
I suppose the country side has been my life fishing has been my main hobby it has kept me happy and out of trouble over the years i have made some really good friends through fishing. Although i don't see some for months but when we do meet we have a good old natter about the past and the present. A lot of my friends are now old men well i suppose most are in there sixties and seventies but most still go fishing they are not fit like they used to be it takes a little longer for them to set there tackle up but they still love there hobby i don't like saying sport some of these same gentlemen also shoot i think i have at least six in my syndicate who i have known for years they are really good friends and i could trust them with my life.
A pretty acton carp
Graham and Bernard have been my main fishing partners over the years they both also shoot, we have fished together on a number of waters local and away into wales, and between the three of us have caught some very impressive fish, not just carp but eels bream roach i always remember fishing with Bern at landodd we went a couple of times, in those days it was a prolific water for the carp we had some great catches from that old lake it was in the middle of the town the only thing that worried us were the drunkards when they closed the pubs they would get the boats the out and would be row around the lake the police would arrive what a job they had getting them off the lake, they would cart them off to the local nick but they would be back a couple of nights latter but it was a bit of a laugh. The carp society fished landodd nearly every year in those days, they would have there get together on the water, and they caught some very impressive fish i believe there were a number of thirties caught over the years but we never had that luck most of the fish we managed to catch were around the fifteen pounds mark but it was good fishing and we had some tremendous multiple catches from the lake, in those days you could only use two rods but it got so bad that we could only use one we were getting two runs together so we packed up using the two rods and used one in fact the one night i packed up i was absolutely tired out from hooking and playing the fish funny really the locals would come down and ask what we were using as bait it was pea nuts at the time we never knew what damage they did to the fish, we also used them at lordys the fish really went mad for them and we caught some respectable carp using them.
Bern with an impresive fish from acton
A couple of tench from acton
We also fished acton burnell together and caught some wonderful fish we caught them to over thirty pounds they were good fish for those days, we also had some huge tench from acton many over six pounds with a a sprinkling of sevens good fish for those years, but like every where else word soon got out and it went syndicate but i was allowed to still fish the lake as i was a friend of the owner over the years we caught some great fish from this water . It is now run by rob hales and is stocked with some very impressive fish. a little more latter

In reply to Post #82
His bright eyes watched me from the corner of the room he coward in the corner of the kitchen as i tried to calm him down but he was a wild animal a most beautiful fox full grown with his rustic coat i had opened the door hearing a noise and in he ran seeking a place of refuge i heard the hunting horn in the distance as they made there way towards the house no way were they going to come on our property i stood by the garden gate and faced the on coming dogs i suppose the year was about 1963 i watched as the huntsman came down from the hill a towards the gate where i stood, have you seen the fox sir no says i the dogs were casting around looking for scent hoping to find a line to hunt again can we come through your garden sir no was my answer you can follow the road at the bottom of the hill he was not amused by my answer he knew me well he only lived down the road why he called me sir i do not know probably being polite in front of his friends we have chickens and cats so we do not want you on our property.

They gave me a dirty look and made there way down the hill calling the dogs as they went i had left the fox in the kitchen with my in laws my father in law wanted to shoot the poor thing but i would have none of it as i approached he gave a snarl and coward further into the corner i talked gently to the animal, and wandered if he was thirsty his eyes shone bright as he watched every move i made he never took his eyes off me i put a bowl of water on the floor and with in the hour he plucked up the courage and lapped it up i would say he was about two years old and a fine looking fellow. I was going to let him go as soon as the hunt disappeared from the area how you going to get him out of the house i was asked ill pick him up was my answer it was not the first time i had handled a fox he will bite you Pete no he will be alright i gently talked to the animal and he eventually calmed down but i would keep him a couple of hours i tried him with some dog food but he was not interested it was now time to let him go i got an old blanket a threw it over the animal he did not move i gently grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and gently eased the blanket away he did not even struggle and let me carry him to the garden gate where i gently let him go he trotted down the path stopping once looking back then he was gone and vanished into the gorse that surrounded the house that why our house was called then gorsty bank i never saw him again just another true tale of my favorite animal this is only one of many i have handled i like to think i saved him from a tragic death by the hounds well a bit more latter

In reply to Post #83
The hill country is so huge acres of land covered in ferns heather and in season the wimberries a wonderful place to watch wild life it was dominated by my favorite old foxy but there were many more birds and animals the humble rabbit the Hair even the stoat and the occasional weasel you had the peregrine buzzard sparrow hawk and the goshawk and the grouse and the curlew i loved the place then there was the mountain streams they did not look much but they held the brown trout i have had my trousers rolled up many times and tickled a few of these lovely marked fish they never reached a huge size maybe only half a pound but lovely eating i would take them home and they would be stuffed with tomatoes and herbs then baked in foil the flesh would fall of when cooked absolutely wonderful to eat.

I have walked the Shropshire hills from one end to the other i have slept under the stars and listened to the noises of the night a lot different to the noises of the woods i have watched old foxy feed her cubs in one earth i found two litters two vixens and twelve cubs which is a bit unusual they took some feeding the cubs got quite used to me being there, and would come and investigate where i was hidden they got quite used to my presence. I felt a bit sorry for the two vixens they had been pulled about by the cubs when they were being suckled and now the were hunting for the food it really made them look a bit ragged and out of sorts i don't think the vixens knew who's cubs were who,s they seemed to feed them all. At the time i did wander if the vixens were litter sisters , all the time i watched the vixens i never once saw the dog fox it was all left to them but they managed to rear them until they went there separate ways.

I have fished a few pools up in hill country most we have acquired through helping the farmers on the big old fox shoots they would have two or three every year it really was a must as the foxes would take young lambs people will say they don't do that but i can assure you they do i have watched foxes harassing a mother and twin lambs while she was trying to protect one they would take the other nature is quite cruel, but they have to survive, on one big earth on the longmynds we found the remains of six young lambs now thats a lot to lose to a fox so they had to be cleared as the farmers could not afford to lose so many. well a bit more latter

In reply to Post #85
I see there are a couple of threads regarding otters and the damage they do the problem is certain organizations have been playing with nature letting them go willy nilly without giving a thought about the damage they can do. When i was young i loved to watch the otters at play most of this was done on the river onny in south Shropshire's i have also watched them on the Rea brook to me they were lovely animals, but now we have all the big commercial fisheries with big stocks of carp breed for match fishing and such in my younger days these sort of fisheries just did not exist it was mainly rivers and the estate lakes, but there were not the amount of otters that we have today in my stories i have said i poached and fished most of the rivers for the trout, they held and you would very rarely see an otter at times you would come across a pair they were secretive animals, i would lie down in the under growth for hours watching them but in those days they were hunted to me it was very cruel but it had existed for centuries and was an accepted part of out heritage in the country side hunting ended when the otter hounds IE huntsmen volunteered to end the hunting of this lovely animal the main cause of there demise was pesticides and pollution causing a lot to die out so the hunting stopped

in my opinion it was about time the river ran red with the blood of this animal it was not a pleasant sight i was only a young lad at the time it it has always remained in my memory very few got away but because they hunted the otter it was also looked after especially the otter Holt's beside the rivers and another thing the otter found its own level with the availability of food. It also gave the keepers a bit of a headache because if food was short it would raid the keepers pens i have seen a few hanging from the keepers gibbet over the years but not now of course. I think the only way around the problem today is to protect your fishery with fences and such the game keeper protects his birds putting electric fences around his pens and if having trouble with owls and hawks he may cover the top of the pen but he takes the necessary precautions when needed to protect his interests . I think this is the only way forward if it costs more to fish your favorite water so be it, because we will not get permission to control this animal in the public's eye it is a furry cuddly animal and it is also the way it is portrayed in school along with the fox and other animals. The public dont care a toss about our fish they cant see them because they are below water but they can see otters mink foxes and such it would cause a human up cry if otters were culled the on going problems have been caused by human intervention not giving the country side a thought or about the damage they may do but it is to late now we must put our own house in order even if our fishing costs more and fence as many fisheries as we can, in time the otter will find his own level with the food available but that may take a few years another thought they could make the females baron over a period that also may be an answer, but i for one would not like hunting of the old days to appear not as it ever will.

I would not like these days to appear as the river ran red with the blood of this animal

In reply to Post #86
Well i have just enough time to write this story before more treatment on my back. As a teenager i was pretty lucky in Shropshire i could fish most places there was a lots of estate lakes and those i could not fish i poached then we had the river Severn the river Rea and the onny in south Shropshire and loads more besides in those days i would fish the river tern it ran through attingham park it was a keeperd estate and in those days strictly private i would cycle there and hide my bike in the undergrowth i got to know the estate quite well and would fish it on a regular basis i also roamed the woods there were pheasants every where i think in those days there were three keepers i was only about fifteen it was the late 1950 you had to be very quite as the estate employed a fair amount of workers IE gardeners park workers and of course the keepers i would never take any one with me as i did not want to be caught so i was responsible for my self and no others.

I soon discovered the river was stuffed with chub roach and a few trout and thinking back i caught a few nice eels not huge around three pounds but nice eating size they held some very big shoots in those days and i would hide in the under growth or even up a tree i always carried a bag with me it was an old post office bag the ones the postman used i would watch where some of the pheasants hit the ground and i would be away and pick it up before the dogs even got there they shot literally hundreds they would never miss a few birds but they did the gun would say keeper its over there of course they never found it because it was in my bag you would hear the keepers or the picker up saying you must of *****ed him sir and he has run or flown on you could see the frustration in the guns face but he came down over there keeper he was dead in the air, i found it quite funny and had a job to stop laughing they were great days i would be gone from home all day on a Saturday, the park also had some beautiful deer, in those days the park got poached by men with lurchers looking for the deer they would come mob handed they caused terrible injuries to these beautiful animals, i was there one morning and i found one severely wounded bite marks all over its rump poor thing it was terrible cruel i left it where it was a bit latter in the day i heard the sound of a gun it was the keepers putting it out of its misery these men would poach the deer in the night using torches and the dogs.

It was a lovely estate and i really got a bit to confident, and got chased one night they discovered i had been fishing in the park and were waiting for me to arrive i was into the water and across the other side i made for the road bridge hiding my rod and bag before i got there i launched my self into the water and swam under the bridge it was quite deep not over my head about three ft and that is where i stayed for the next hour i could hear them shouting in the distance i was trembling with cold but at last it went quiet and i scrambled out onto the bank wringing wet i manged to pick my rod and bag up got my bike and made for home i kept to the back roads and eventually got home around midnight but it was not the last time i would fish and shoot on that estate, and over the years i also had my fair share of rabbits but that's another story a bit more latter

In reply to Post #87
How the years roll by it did not hit me until yesterday, the next birthday i will be seventy i said to a friend yesterday wheres my life gone it has passed so quickly i have had a great time especially fishing and i have met some some great anglers and made many friends. I have fished in shropshire from one end to the other some legal some not but i have enjoyed it all they say life is for living i have certainly done that if some one asked me what was the best thing you ever did i would not hesitate and say meeting dick walker he was an icon, i learned so much from the great man he was so kind and generous towards myself and friends we lived a long way apart but he would ring me at work asking how i was and what we had been fishing for he loved it when we were catching the big bream and asked me to write about our campaign but i never really had the time i was a young chap with a young family work had to come first.

At that time my life was rather full most of the time when i was away from work i was either fishing or down the woods as nature played a major part in my life i also walked the hills where the time came from i don't no i would come home from work and would be away fishing until dark i lived and breathed fishing in the sixties and seventies and then i had my shooting in the winter so there was never a dull moment lucky i had a very understanding family and wife, I remember dick giving me a ring at work hi Pete can you do me a favour and take a disabled lad fishing no problem he gave the address and telephone number i arranged to meet him and his father at Acton Burnell i had a ticket and was a friend of the owner i took all my gear a long but i had no need dick had sent him all the rods reels the lot line hooks you name it he sent it the man was so generous and helpful towards young anglers, the rods were made by hardy one a twelve ft float rod the other an eleven ft ledger rod but i had my work cut out with this young lad he had no coordination between his arm and brain when he tried to cast it would end in a tangle at his feet it took nearly all day to get him casting but he eventually did it i can remember his face when he caught his first fish a small Rudd he was made up, and that was the beginning of a long friendship with his father who was also a friend of dick the great man rang me up at home and could not thank me enought it was not a problem, i know the lad carried on fishing throught his young life i think his father has now passed on and i have now lost contact with the family i suppose that would be in the middle senventies. well a bit more latter