In reply to Post #77
made my first batch of the said recipe today, cost me £2.66 kg including eggs and flavours, bought 100kg of dry ingrediants, cheap as chips bring on the spring
made my first batch of the said recipe today, cost me £2.66 kg including eggs and flavours, bought 100kg of dry ingrediants, cheap as chips bring on the spring
In reply to Post #317
Out of interest what liquids did you add?
Out of interest what liquids did you add?
In reply to Post #77
afternoon ken
i was just wondering on the bm1 can i change the equivite for selenavite e if i can would it still be at 5%
cheers kevin
afternoon ken
i was just wondering on the bm1 can i change the equivite for selenavite e if i can would it still be at 5%
cheers kevin
In reply to Post #319
I know I am not Ken but 2.5% selenavite e is ideal
I know I am not Ken but 2.5% selenavite e is ideal
In reply to Post #320
Would the real Ken Townley please stand up....
Would the real Ken Townley please stand up....
In reply to Post #320
cheers for that . but would that leave me minus 2'5 per cent so if that's the case what could I up the missing . 25 per cent on
cheers for that . but would that leave me minus 2'5 per cent so if that's the case what could I up the missing . 25 per cent on
In reply to Post #322
Why not make that decision yourself and that way you would have had atleast some input into the mix
Best of luck either way
Why not make that decision yourself and that way you would have had atleast some input into the mix
Best of luck either way
In reply to Post #322
See post #108 onwards, I drove myself (and everyone else) bonkers with the same question
See post #108 onwards, I drove myself (and everyone else) bonkers with the same question
In reply to Post #315
OK what I meant was I would rather get my protein content from high BV ingredients apposed to things like soya flour and supergold 60.
Supergold 60/ prairie meal is supposed to have a high bv, and maybe it has for cattle etc, but for carp?
Sam, have you ever search after the nutritionnal data of Maize Gluten meal, i don't think ...
it is not a well balanced protein alone, but if you put it with a bit of fishmeal, you will have a very good AA profile.
the fact are that the AA digestibility of maize gluten in fish is high for all AA: from 90 to 94% digestibility ! not a poor biological value ingrediant in my opignion ...
it's used a lot in aquaculture as part of a fishmeal replacer, aquaculture need to grow fish fast and well, so if maize gluten was so poor, it will not be used, result proved that replacing a part of the fishmeal content with maize gluten ended up with the same result on the grow and health of fish.
it's high in methionine, that is often the limiting amino in many mixes.
maize gluten is also really cheap (here in france) compared to fishmeal, so using it can cut the cost down of our bait
OK what I meant was I would rather get my protein content from high BV ingredients apposed to things like soya flour and supergold 60.
Supergold 60/ prairie meal is supposed to have a high bv, and maybe it has for cattle etc, but for carp?
Sam, have you ever search after the nutritionnal data of Maize Gluten meal, i don't think ...
it is not a well balanced protein alone, but if you put it with a bit of fishmeal, you will have a very good AA profile.
the fact are that the AA digestibility of maize gluten in fish is high for all AA: from 90 to 94% digestibility ! not a poor biological value ingrediant in my opignion ...
it's used a lot in aquaculture as part of a fishmeal replacer, aquaculture need to grow fish fast and well, so if maize gluten was so poor, it will not be used, result proved that replacing a part of the fishmeal content with maize gluten ended up with the same result on the grow and health of fish.
it's high in methionine, that is often the limiting amino in many mixes.
maize gluten is also really cheap (here in france) compared to fishmeal, so using it can cut the cost down of our bait
In reply to Post #325
You think 90% of it is biologically available????
Why do you think that? The stated 90% is based on animals with complex acidic stomachs, not a simple alkaline tract that is found in carp!
Carp are not equipped to deal with such a source of protein with any efficiency.
Just because it is used in aqua culture feeds does not mean it has a high BV
You think 90% of it is biologically available????
Why do you think that? The stated 90% is based on animals with complex acidic stomachs, not a simple alkaline tract that is found in carp!
Carp are not equipped to deal with such a source of protein with any efficiency.
Just because it is used in aqua culture feeds does not mean it has a high BV
In reply to Post #326
Sam, it's not me that i think 90% of it is available, it's a couple of studies i have read that say it is !!!
yes carp don't have stomach, but it as been found that they can digest the same source of protein as pike or salmonids (that have stomach) and benefit from it .
more than one studies have stated that, it's not new ! why soybean meal or corn gluten meal is used in a lot of commercial pellets for Koï ? if they were less digestible, or the koï will not benefit from those protein source like fishmeal, i think most of the producer will let this meal for ruminant or other food sector and will continue with full of fishmeal pellet.
let see this link: corn gluten meal: 96% digeastible nitrogen for salmonids, i think for carp is not far from that !
http://www.feedipedia.org/node/12288
Sam, it's not me that i think 90% of it is available, it's a couple of studies i have read that say it is !!!
yes carp don't have stomach, but it as been found that they can digest the same source of protein as pike or salmonids (that have stomach) and benefit from it .
more than one studies have stated that, it's not new ! why soybean meal or corn gluten meal is used in a lot of commercial pellets for Koï ? if they were less digestible, or the koï will not benefit from those protein source like fishmeal, i think most of the producer will let this meal for ruminant or other food sector and will continue with full of fishmeal pellet.
let see this link: corn gluten meal: 96% digeastible nitrogen for salmonids, i think for carp is not far from that !
http://www.feedipedia.org/node/12288
In reply to Post #327
That is neither here nor there, I am not saying they will not benefit from it, I am saying that in my strong opinion it is not the best product to cover the amino requirements.
The whole point I was trying to make earlier is that I would rather spend extra on the best ingredients. Thats just me, nothing wrong with doing it another way. Smurf put this mix together as a wallet friendly mix I believe, I am sure he will agree that prairie meal is not the best source of protein for carp, having said that maybe he wont agree, Im not sure!
All I know is that it is certainly not for me, not for use of covering aminos anyway. It does have its uses though.
There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
That is neither here nor there, I am not saying they will not benefit from it, I am saying that in my strong opinion it is not the best product to cover the amino requirements.
The whole point I was trying to make earlier is that I would rather spend extra on the best ingredients. Thats just me, nothing wrong with doing it another way. Smurf put this mix together as a wallet friendly mix I believe, I am sure he will agree that prairie meal is not the best source of protein for carp, having said that maybe he wont agree, Im not sure!
All I know is that it is certainly not for me, not for use of covering aminos anyway. It does have its uses though.
There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
In reply to Post #328
There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
yes and thats essentially as a replacement for the ever increasing cost of fishmeal, prarie meal is a damn sight cheaper !
There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
yes and thats essentially as a replacement for the ever increasing cost of fishmeal, prarie meal is a damn sight cheaper !
In reply to Post #329
I am not disputing that, I am just saying it will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or similar!
Unsure why people have such a hard time understanding that
I am not disputing that, I am just saying it will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or similar!
Unsure why people have such a hard time understanding that
In reply to Post #330
i dont have a hard time-i looked at the bio value of prarie meal against fishmeal years ago-theyres no contest, but as some have mentioned-added with a few other ingredients-amino acid balance up.
then again so does poultry meal-and thats papp imo also .
i dont have a hard time-i looked at the bio value of prarie meal against fishmeal years ago-theyres no contest, but as some have mentioned-added with a few other ingredients-amino acid balance up.
then again so does poultry meal-and thats papp imo also .