In reply to Post #292
A 2019 nationwide survey by well respected Opinium reported 71% of people from ethnic minorities had faced racial discrimination, and rising in recent years. The vast majority of those were targeted by strangers the survey found. Upto you what you make of the information mate.
A 2019 nationwide survey by well respected Opinium reported 71% of people from ethnic minorities had faced racial discrimination, and rising in recent years. The vast majority of those were targeted by strangers the survey found. Upto you what you make of the information mate.
In reply to Post #299
Hi Greekskii,
Yes, I second that except that it takes a lot of continual negotiation to keep things on track.
I've said politically, you need a balance between the centre right maximising the economy with free market economics and the centre left to keep them honest with a fair distribution of wealth.
A focus on the individual as sovereign to try and create equal opportunity. Then it's up to people to make the best of their opportunities.
Re your earlier post, how far left people go depends on their ideology, but the identity politics of the far left is devisive and dangerous. Grouping people by race, religion, sex etc is tribal and produces a power struggle.
It is identity politics which is driving these current riots. Of course the murder of George Floyd was awful, but it's gone out of all proportion and incited hatred and violence. Nobody talks about the elderly, black ex police captain shot and killed by looters. In the US, on average, there are 3/4 murders committed every day. There has to be some perspective and reason.
By the way, I meant to say before, that I'm sorry that you seem to have met more than your share of racism in your life. But as others have said, they encounter little of it in their daily lives.
As for me, I abhor it and have never uttered it nor have I ever encountered it, that I can remember.
BB.
Hi Greekskii,
Yes, I second that except that it takes a lot of continual negotiation to keep things on track.
I've said politically, you need a balance between the centre right maximising the economy with free market economics and the centre left to keep them honest with a fair distribution of wealth.
A focus on the individual as sovereign to try and create equal opportunity. Then it's up to people to make the best of their opportunities.
Re your earlier post, how far left people go depends on their ideology, but the identity politics of the far left is devisive and dangerous. Grouping people by race, religion, sex etc is tribal and produces a power struggle.
It is identity politics which is driving these current riots. Of course the murder of George Floyd was awful, but it's gone out of all proportion and incited hatred and violence. Nobody talks about the elderly, black ex police captain shot and killed by looters. In the US, on average, there are 3/4 murders committed every day. There has to be some perspective and reason.
By the way, I meant to say before, that I'm sorry that you seem to have met more than your share of racism in your life. But as others have said, they encounter little of it in their daily lives.
As for me, I abhor it and have never uttered it nor have I ever encountered it, that I can remember.
BB.
In reply to Post #301
I'm not in a position to say whether a survey conducted in 2019 is true or not but i'm only going by my experience, I have a brother and three sisters so all in all five of us mixed race, as far as I am aware none of us has been subjected to any form of racial abuse apart from as I have previously stated whilst I was at school and back then it was something that wasn't nice but it didn't mark me for life and I never give it a thought these days so i am only going my own personal experience, my name is clearly foreign but I think of myself as nothing other than British, I was born here and been here for the best part of 61 years, make of that what you will
A snap survey doesn't carry much weight for me unless I know where it was conducted and who the recipients were, it could mean anything but that's not to say there isn't racism, ive said in some of my posts that clearly there is but what I don't like is the implication that our society is inherently racist which it clearly isnt
I'm not in a position to say whether a survey conducted in 2019 is true or not but i'm only going by my experience, I have a brother and three sisters so all in all five of us mixed race, as far as I am aware none of us has been subjected to any form of racial abuse apart from as I have previously stated whilst I was at school and back then it was something that wasn't nice but it didn't mark me for life and I never give it a thought these days so i am only going my own personal experience, my name is clearly foreign but I think of myself as nothing other than British, I was born here and been here for the best part of 61 years, make of that what you will
A snap survey doesn't carry much weight for me unless I know where it was conducted and who the recipients were, it could mean anything but that's not to say there isn't racism, ive said in some of my posts that clearly there is but what I don't like is the implication that our society is inherently racist which it clearly isnt
In reply to Post #303
I never said it was a snap survey. Racially motivated hate crime has risen every year since 2013. More than doubling. Again make of that what you will.
I never said it was a snap survey. Racially motivated hate crime has risen every year since 2013. More than doubling. Again make of that what you will.
In reply to Post #304
The point i'm making is its a survey and that is it, what it or you are implying is if you lined up 100 BAME people and asked them the question, ie have you been racially abused then 71 would say yes, personally I doubt it very much, what I don't doubt is it is possibly on the increase but that has a lot to do with the fact that the world is a troubled place and its probably easy for some ignorant bigots to pick on someone with a different skin colour, its always been there only it appears and may be getting worse due to peoples obsession with social media, most of the abuse is by cowards hiding behind a twitter address or something like that, it isn't acceptable but I do think people are often too easily offended these days also, If I were to receive abuse on one of those mediums which I wont because I don't use them but if I were to I just wouldn't go on there in the first place
All i'm saying is there are far more people that aren't racist than are, the 71% you mention (if its accurate) are probably being abused by the same stupid minority and they will never change their views unfortunately
The point i'm making is its a survey and that is it, what it or you are implying is if you lined up 100 BAME people and asked them the question, ie have you been racially abused then 71 would say yes, personally I doubt it very much, what I don't doubt is it is possibly on the increase but that has a lot to do with the fact that the world is a troubled place and its probably easy for some ignorant bigots to pick on someone with a different skin colour, its always been there only it appears and may be getting worse due to peoples obsession with social media, most of the abuse is by cowards hiding behind a twitter address or something like that, it isn't acceptable but I do think people are often too easily offended these days also, If I were to receive abuse on one of those mediums which I wont because I don't use them but if I were to I just wouldn't go on there in the first place
All i'm saying is there are far more people that aren't racist than are, the 71% you mention (if its accurate) are probably being abused by the same stupid minority and they will never change their views unfortunately
In reply to Post #303
I think society is racist. But that's solely the fact that racists exist amongst society. It doesn't mean everyone is but as I explained in a previous post, be it a teacher, police, politicians, business owner, bouncer or whatever profession, chef, sport team manager or whoever, has the ability to cause inequality or teach and impart inequality to others. That is how racism exists in our society. You then have the racist sympathisers who don't stand up against it, or ignore it. I'm ashamed to say I have done before because I was selfish enough to put my safety above that of others.
I guess it comes down to people's personal experiences in life. Like I said, for me personally, I have experienced mild racism in 2020. Ive has some form of racial abuse every year for the last 13 years from mild comments to extremely vile ones. However they were all made by people that clearly knew i was not foreign, I've lived here since birth, I don't have an accent. Now that's another level of racism. It's Full on targeted to offend someone because it says “you're British but because of your heritage I will abuse you”. Knowing that these type of people exist in society, that are willing to actively insist on being racist to a British person, tells me that there's a level of racism that runs a whole lot deeper than the superficial layer.
Until you root out and cure racist people and thus racism, you can justify that society is inherently racist solely on the basis that racism is allowed to exist. The long term cure is to educate children. About the British empire, winston Churchill, Ireland, Soviet Union, etc. Domestic and global history and without ignoring the bad bits. Because as much as it's shouldn't be scrawled on a statue, Churchill was a racist. He said racist things, he did things because of race. Particularly in India. And people have to accept that not deny it. It doesn't mean he Didn't play a pivotal role in WW2 and it doesn't mean that part of his history shouldn't be celebrate. But you can't just sweep the bad bits under the carpet. Kids don't learn proper history in schools, In year 10 I had to force the teacher to explain that Russia actually took part and played a HUGE role in WW2 and it in fact wasn't just Britain and America and other allied forces. The curriculum Doesn't teach the entire story on historical events. You learn about all the other empires but not the British? You don't learn about your own country's history? What?
Luckily the younger generations are able to access the remainder of history with so much accessibility to the internet and resources. They also seem to be so much more accepting of others and switched on to calling out injustices and prejudices that at worst we can hope racism dies out with current living generations.
I think society is racist. But that's solely the fact that racists exist amongst society. It doesn't mean everyone is but as I explained in a previous post, be it a teacher, police, politicians, business owner, bouncer or whatever profession, chef, sport team manager or whoever, has the ability to cause inequality or teach and impart inequality to others. That is how racism exists in our society. You then have the racist sympathisers who don't stand up against it, or ignore it. I'm ashamed to say I have done before because I was selfish enough to put my safety above that of others.
I guess it comes down to people's personal experiences in life. Like I said, for me personally, I have experienced mild racism in 2020. Ive has some form of racial abuse every year for the last 13 years from mild comments to extremely vile ones. However they were all made by people that clearly knew i was not foreign, I've lived here since birth, I don't have an accent. Now that's another level of racism. It's Full on targeted to offend someone because it says “you're British but because of your heritage I will abuse you”. Knowing that these type of people exist in society, that are willing to actively insist on being racist to a British person, tells me that there's a level of racism that runs a whole lot deeper than the superficial layer.
Until you root out and cure racist people and thus racism, you can justify that society is inherently racist solely on the basis that racism is allowed to exist. The long term cure is to educate children. About the British empire, winston Churchill, Ireland, Soviet Union, etc. Domestic and global history and without ignoring the bad bits. Because as much as it's shouldn't be scrawled on a statue, Churchill was a racist. He said racist things, he did things because of race. Particularly in India. And people have to accept that not deny it. It doesn't mean he Didn't play a pivotal role in WW2 and it doesn't mean that part of his history shouldn't be celebrate. But you can't just sweep the bad bits under the carpet. Kids don't learn proper history in schools, In year 10 I had to force the teacher to explain that Russia actually took part and played a HUGE role in WW2 and it in fact wasn't just Britain and America and other allied forces. The curriculum Doesn't teach the entire story on historical events. You learn about all the other empires but not the British? You don't learn about your own country's history? What?
Luckily the younger generations are able to access the remainder of history with so much accessibility to the internet and resources. They also seem to be so much more accepting of others and switched on to calling out injustices and prejudices that at worst we can hope racism dies out with current living generations.
In reply to Post #305
You're interpreting the data wrongly but coming across the true meaning of it in your own words. 71% of people could experience racism from one singular person. Still 71% have been subject to racism. It doesn't mean 29% of the population isn't racist. Just that 71% of those surveyed have been subject to racism of some form. Whether it's being physically attacked, verbally (this has so many different levels to it), refused entry to a club, not given a job, all because of your race.
You're interpreting the data wrongly but coming across the true meaning of it in your own words. 71% of people could experience racism from one singular person. Still 71% have been subject to racism. It doesn't mean 29% of the population isn't racist. Just that 71% of those surveyed have been subject to racism of some form. Whether it's being physically attacked, verbally (this has so many different levels to it), refused entry to a club, not given a job, all because of your race.
In reply to Post #307
I realised that and edited my post but you said it, 71% could be being racially abused by one person, obviously that is not the case but your sweeping statement that society is racist is in my opinion untrue, you seem to have had a bad go of things because as I have said I haven't had any racist comments made against me for so long I can barely remember, I have of course heard people make racist comments and am probably guilty of 'letting it go' but I do think we are more in an age where people have said and indeed I have said to people when they have made sexist or racist comments that you cant say that sort of stuff, its not acceptable, we still have a long way to go because there are people out there who are blatantly racist, sexist...angry people who are even hate-ist! if that's a word? But seriously I do think the ease with which we can comment and abuse online and through social media does have a lot to do with it and the world does seem to be an angrier place these days, question..... where does the innocence of a child turn to hatred and bigotry? After all no one is born racist
Oh and this is interrupting my dinner.....final post
I realised that and edited my post but you said it, 71% could be being racially abused by one person, obviously that is not the case but your sweeping statement that society is racist is in my opinion untrue, you seem to have had a bad go of things because as I have said I haven't had any racist comments made against me for so long I can barely remember, I have of course heard people make racist comments and am probably guilty of 'letting it go' but I do think we are more in an age where people have said and indeed I have said to people when they have made sexist or racist comments that you cant say that sort of stuff, its not acceptable, we still have a long way to go because there are people out there who are blatantly racist, sexist...angry people who are even hate-ist! if that's a word? But seriously I do think the ease with which we can comment and abuse online and through social media does have a lot to do with it and the world does seem to be an angrier place these days, question..... where does the innocence of a child turn to hatred and bigotry? After all no one is born racist
Oh and this is interrupting my dinner.....final post
In reply to Post #308
I totally agree. It starts with education and dealing with the fact they will experience people that hold racist views in their lives and how to identify it and the right education to be able to question that, in the or own minds and make the own decisions but be fully informed before they do.
Like I said, society is racist by proxy, because racists exist and they are in all parts of society. From the poorest of the poor, to the richest of the rich. It's not that society is all completely racist, but a part of it is and not doing enough to remove those individuals from their platforms and just say “it's a minority so it's not that bad” isnt good enough. Imagine doing that with terrorism or sexism or whatever else. When the majority does not stop the minority it is an issue.
That quote is what people are asking - why the majority didn't stop the minority vandalising monuments this weekend. Well why don't the majority stop the minority being racist? There's too much irony involved in a lot of the anger that goes around.
I totally agree. It starts with education and dealing with the fact they will experience people that hold racist views in their lives and how to identify it and the right education to be able to question that, in the or own minds and make the own decisions but be fully informed before they do.
Like I said, society is racist by proxy, because racists exist and they are in all parts of society. From the poorest of the poor, to the richest of the rich. It's not that society is all completely racist, but a part of it is and not doing enough to remove those individuals from their platforms and just say “it's a minority so it's not that bad” isnt good enough. Imagine doing that with terrorism or sexism or whatever else. When the majority does not stop the minority it is an issue.
That quote is what people are asking - why the majority didn't stop the minority vandalising monuments this weekend. Well why don't the majority stop the minority being racist? There's too much irony involved in a lot of the anger that goes around.
BB
Thanks for Thomas Sowell
Thanks for Thomas Sowell
RIP George Floyd
Have a good day and stay positive fellas
Have a good day and stay positive fellas
A lot of protests today about removing statues. One black man on the tv said it was a bad idea as it removed the evidence of what went on all those years ago, he's got a point.
In reply to Post #312
He was introduced as Scotlands first black professor. That in itself tells a story I suppose.
He made a very similar point to yours when you said about removing them but not destroying them and instead using their existence and subsequent removal as a start point for education about past atrocities.
It is a really good point. Documenting their removal and explaining why is important. Like the Berlin Wall coming down. That footage is used as a stimulus for studying modern European history.
He was introduced as Scotlands first black professor. That in itself tells a story I suppose.
He made a very similar point to yours when you said about removing them but not destroying them and instead using their existence and subsequent removal as a start point for education about past atrocities.
It is a really good point. Documenting their removal and explaining why is important. Like the Berlin Wall coming down. That footage is used as a stimulus for studying modern European history.
In reply to Post #312
I like the idea by Colstons fellow Bristolian Banksy. Get it back out the Avon and remodel it back on it's plinth.
I like the idea by Colstons fellow Bristolian Banksy. Get it back out the Avon and remodel it back on it's plinth.
Me too. Great idea.