In reply to Post #270
Hi BB
benefactor with money from the slave trade.... a bit like those businesses built on the gold that Nazis stole maybe
i'm guessing that the vote wasn't a 'keep or not' thing where a majority was needed. Education is vital - evidently.
It's the right thing to remove these type of statues - AND educate people as to why.
have a good day man
Mal
Hi BB
benefactor with money from the slave trade.... a bit like those businesses built on the gold that Nazis stole maybe
i'm guessing that the vote wasn't a 'keep or not' thing where a majority was needed. Education is vital - evidently.
It's the right thing to remove these type of statues - AND educate people as to why.
have a good day man
Mal
In reply to Post #256
this is my exact point, why was it not the front page news? yet this is.
Why did people not have facebook search warrants so these people 'get whats coming to them' but they have for the most recent ones?
Why is it okay for football fans to technically racially target a swedish business and trash it?
Its quite hypocritical is it not?
Being from an ethnic background (although being born and raised in England) I have been first hand a victim of racism, nothing major but plenty of comments and some intimidation. Not as a child but as a teenager and adult, mainly due to EE migration in to this country. The usual "go back to your own country", "foreign c*nt" as well as more vile things like "Hitler shouldn't have let any polish survive" (ironically from people that also bang on about winning the war, even more ironically they believe the British did it without anyone else's input, which couldn't be further from the truth). I've even cut ties with so called friends over it, as much as the very dark banter as a friendship group goes, the constant repetition of something quite hostile goes to show that there must be some truth behind it.
What I do see amongst British people (and its true of many other people too before anyone starts saying im being racist) is that there is an unwillingness to listen and accept negative traits and out of order behaviour when it occurs. God forbid you try to point it out as I have done before, only to be met with "go back to your own country then you **** if you dont want to accept our ways" not that I was born here or anything, or that accepting clear racial prejudices is something you have to do if you live in this country.
The casual racism that exists is rife, it is mad to deny it does, jeez I was even mildly racially abused on this forum ffs. There are full on racists that exist, i've met them before, and it only takes these people to be in positions of power (teacher, manager, owner, politician, policeman, etc. to input racist values in to the system, to stop someone getting a job because of their heritage, to refuse entry because of their skin colour, to target people of certain skin colour and treat them poorly, to purposely or accidentally teach others your views, especially children.
Ask yourselves, how may of you have that racist grandparent or uncle or aunt that we so often hear people talkin about? Think to when your parent or boss or teacher or friend said something racist, think about what you grew up around (the 80s was rife for racism, its well documented) now not one single person will they've never heard or seen something racist in their lives, no matter how mild or major it was. Most of us have upbringings involving being able to mix with a large number of people and form our own thoughts around race from childhood. But there IS people in this country that dont allow their children to do that, they have racist views themselves and they are forced upon their children as a value, whether they are white, black, purple or blue. Rooting that out of society, coupled with education, will long term eradicate the problem. The younger generations are so much more tolerant and accepting as a majority, you root out and cure the racism being taught to people NOW...then in 80yrs it will have died out completely. But who the **** wants to wait 80yrs?? bit too long isnt it...
...the cure for it now is simply to soap the swim next door and get haulin
this is my exact point, why was it not the front page news? yet this is.
Why did people not have facebook search warrants so these people 'get whats coming to them' but they have for the most recent ones?
Why is it okay for football fans to technically racially target a swedish business and trash it?
Its quite hypocritical is it not?
Being from an ethnic background (although being born and raised in England) I have been first hand a victim of racism, nothing major but plenty of comments and some intimidation. Not as a child but as a teenager and adult, mainly due to EE migration in to this country. The usual "go back to your own country", "foreign c*nt" as well as more vile things like "Hitler shouldn't have let any polish survive" (ironically from people that also bang on about winning the war, even more ironically they believe the British did it without anyone else's input, which couldn't be further from the truth). I've even cut ties with so called friends over it, as much as the very dark banter as a friendship group goes, the constant repetition of something quite hostile goes to show that there must be some truth behind it.
What I do see amongst British people (and its true of many other people too before anyone starts saying im being racist) is that there is an unwillingness to listen and accept negative traits and out of order behaviour when it occurs. God forbid you try to point it out as I have done before, only to be met with "go back to your own country then you **** if you dont want to accept our ways" not that I was born here or anything, or that accepting clear racial prejudices is something you have to do if you live in this country.
The casual racism that exists is rife, it is mad to deny it does, jeez I was even mildly racially abused on this forum ffs. There are full on racists that exist, i've met them before, and it only takes these people to be in positions of power (teacher, manager, owner, politician, policeman, etc. to input racist values in to the system, to stop someone getting a job because of their heritage, to refuse entry because of their skin colour, to target people of certain skin colour and treat them poorly, to purposely or accidentally teach others your views, especially children.
Ask yourselves, how may of you have that racist grandparent or uncle or aunt that we so often hear people talkin about? Think to when your parent or boss or teacher or friend said something racist, think about what you grew up around (the 80s was rife for racism, its well documented) now not one single person will they've never heard or seen something racist in their lives, no matter how mild or major it was. Most of us have upbringings involving being able to mix with a large number of people and form our own thoughts around race from childhood. But there IS people in this country that dont allow their children to do that, they have racist views themselves and they are forced upon their children as a value, whether they are white, black, purple or blue. Rooting that out of society, coupled with education, will long term eradicate the problem. The younger generations are so much more tolerant and accepting as a majority, you root out and cure the racism being taught to people NOW...then in 80yrs it will have died out completely. But who the **** wants to wait 80yrs?? bit too long isnt it...
...the cure for it now is simply to soap the swim next door and get haulin
In reply to Post #266
oops typo, I typed scared when I meant to type scarred, its important to make this distinction, no scars here and mostly water off a ducks back
Greekskii, you say racism was rife in the 80's, i'm sorry but I looked more foreign in the 80's than I do now and often got taken for being Greek or Italian rather than being half Asian and I can honestly say I was never on the end of any racist comments, I agree there was racism then as there is now but to say it was rife is in my opinion incorrect, the majority of people in this country have a live and let live attitude but that seems to be overwhelmed by a minority, just like the protests now where people protest peacefully and a minority start trouble, no matter how much society changes these people will never be satisfied
Ive known some very racist black people in my life so it goes both ways, its not a one way street mate
oops typo, I typed scared when I meant to type scarred, its important to make this distinction, no scars here and mostly water off a ducks back
Greekskii, you say racism was rife in the 80's, i'm sorry but I looked more foreign in the 80's than I do now and often got taken for being Greek or Italian rather than being half Asian and I can honestly say I was never on the end of any racist comments, I agree there was racism then as there is now but to say it was rife is in my opinion incorrect, the majority of people in this country have a live and let live attitude but that seems to be overwhelmed by a minority, just like the protests now where people protest peacefully and a minority start trouble, no matter how much society changes these people will never be satisfied
Ive known some very racist black people in my life so it goes both ways, its not a one way street mate
In reply to Post #271
Remove it yes put it in a museum and add a plaque describing the reason.
I'd like it to be recovered and that to happen.
Remove it yes put it in a museum and add a plaque describing the reason.
I'd like it to be recovered and that to happen.
In reply to Post #272
why was it not the front page news? yet this is.
Unlike the other incidents it was caught live, the demo was not authorised with and no social distancing took place putting everyone at risk.
why was it not the front page news? yet this is.
Unlike the other incidents it was caught live, the demo was not authorised with and no social distancing took place putting everyone at risk.
In reply to Post #262
Hi Scozza,
I agree and you are reiterating what I've been trying to say.
In terms of opportunity and affluence, we in our Western democracies are in the top 1% of people on the planet.
In the US, millions of ethnic minorities and legal immigrants work hard and lead comfortable, successful lives. They will mostly have been raised in functional families with responsibility and a work ethic.
Inner city blacks raised in 75% mother only families on welfare with little father guidance, bad schools, bad role models on the streets, gang culture and crime, it's no wonder not too many of them, go on to lead successful lives. Attributing their problems to systemic racism is just naïve and missing the point.
BB.
Edit.
Mal, so in that case, why is Auschwitz maintained as a reminder of the holocaust?
Why not just tear that down and just teach it in schools?
Hi Scozza,
I agree and you are reiterating what I've been trying to say.
In terms of opportunity and affluence, we in our Western democracies are in the top 1% of people on the planet.
In the US, millions of ethnic minorities and legal immigrants work hard and lead comfortable, successful lives. They will mostly have been raised in functional families with responsibility and a work ethic.
Inner city blacks raised in 75% mother only families on welfare with little father guidance, bad schools, bad role models on the streets, gang culture and crime, it's no wonder not too many of them, go on to lead successful lives. Attributing their problems to systemic racism is just naïve and missing the point.
BB.
Edit.
Mal, so in that case, why is Auschwitz maintained as a reminder of the holocaust?
Why not just tear that down and just teach it in schools?
In reply to Post #276
Totally agree with that
There are similarities to indigenous Australian Aborigines who have been treated abominably down the years but in recent times, lets say the last twenty to thirty years they have received a lot of help and been given many rights by the Australian government and deservedly so like housing, welfare, land reforms etc...you name it and they were given it but the problems of the past are hard to shake off, and it is their ancient culture that is what they yearn for which doesn't really work in modern day Australia they have bad health issues, terrible drink/alcoholism issues, you cannot make drastic changes in a generation or more let alone a year or two
I remember reading in the 80's when I was living there that more Aborigines had died in police custody than Blacks in South Africa, seems hard to believe and whether it was true or not who knows but it wasn't the era of fake news back then
Totally agree with that
There are similarities to indigenous Australian Aborigines who have been treated abominably down the years but in recent times, lets say the last twenty to thirty years they have received a lot of help and been given many rights by the Australian government and deservedly so like housing, welfare, land reforms etc...you name it and they were given it but the problems of the past are hard to shake off, and it is their ancient culture that is what they yearn for which doesn't really work in modern day Australia they have bad health issues, terrible drink/alcoholism issues, you cannot make drastic changes in a generation or more let alone a year or two
I remember reading in the 80's when I was living there that more Aborigines had died in police custody than Blacks in South Africa, seems hard to believe and whether it was true or not who knows but it wasn't the era of fake news back then
In reply to Post #275
a majority wore masks, look at the pictures, masks that the government are now saying work so well to minimise the risk of spreading the virus in close contact that they've made them mandatory on public transport....and are these the same social distancing measures of 2m that Boris wants to halve to 1m so we can all go have a pint in the pub, without wearing masks?
a majority wore masks, look at the pictures, masks that the government are now saying work so well to minimise the risk of spreading the virus in close contact that they've made them mandatory on public transport....and are these the same social distancing measures of 2m that Boris wants to halve to 1m so we can all go have a pint in the pub, without wearing masks?
I'd imagine Auschwitz is preserved because it is a relic of a horror that should not be forgotten.
Statues are a celebration of, and a tribute to the subject.
They're very different things.
Statues are a celebration of, and a tribute to the subject.
They're very different things.
In reply to Post #279
But the statues in Hungary have been moved to a different place and now teach what happened in the past rather than celebrate the past. I reckon that's the way forward.
But the statues in Hungary have been moved to a different place and now teach what happened in the past rather than celebrate the past. I reckon that's the way forward.
In reply to Post #279
We are all hypocrites.What amazes me when we talk about slavery is what about modern day slavery? What about all the t shirts we wear that are made in Vietnam by children getting paid a £1 a week? Or the iPhone sitting next to me that is assembled in China by cheaper labour than Apple want to pay in the west? I know some will say , 'but those people have a choice', but do they really? Its either work to feed your family or starve so they don't really have a choice. Like I say we're all hypocrites when it comes to what we deem acceptable, its just that some are a lot more hypocritical than others, perhaps some of those protesters should rip off their Nike t shirts, trainers etc... and chuck them in the river with that statue!
We are all hypocrites.What amazes me when we talk about slavery is what about modern day slavery? What about all the t shirts we wear that are made in Vietnam by children getting paid a £1 a week? Or the iPhone sitting next to me that is assembled in China by cheaper labour than Apple want to pay in the west? I know some will say , 'but those people have a choice', but do they really? Its either work to feed your family or starve so they don't really have a choice. Like I say we're all hypocrites when it comes to what we deem acceptable, its just that some are a lot more hypocritical than others, perhaps some of those protesters should rip off their Nike t shirts, trainers etc... and chuck them in the river with that statue!
In reply to Post #277
Hi Henry,
It's nice to get a positive reaction for a change.
I'm normally a big target for our left wing colleagues on here.
It's good to hear that you were able to rise above whatever racism you were subjected to and had the self confidence to realise that they were the problem and not you.
As you say, racism isn't a one way street. It seems to me our left wing members make a bigger deal of it than it, perhaps is, because they suffer from white privilege guilt.
BB.
Edit.
Sir B, well put, I agree with that.
Hi Henry,
It's nice to get a positive reaction for a change.
I'm normally a big target for our left wing colleagues on here.
It's good to hear that you were able to rise above whatever racism you were subjected to and had the self confidence to realise that they were the problem and not you.
As you say, racism isn't a one way street. It seems to me our left wing members make a bigger deal of it than it, perhaps is, because they suffer from white privilege guilt.
BB.
Edit.
Sir B, well put, I agree with that.
In reply to Post #270
Would you campaign for the Jimmy Savile plaques and statues to be put back, after all he was a great benefactor?
Would you campaign for the Jimmy Savile plaques and statues to be put back, after all he was a great benefactor?
In reply to Post #283
Hi 906,
No I wouldn't because that is such recent history, that it would seem that we were celebrating him.
That statue from centuries ago is not celebrated by us now, it is an historical reminder of what we now consider the sins of the past.
Anyway, Sir B suggested the ideal solution.
BB.
Hi 906,
No I wouldn't because that is such recent history, that it would seem that we were celebrating him.
That statue from centuries ago is not celebrated by us now, it is an historical reminder of what we now consider the sins of the past.
Anyway, Sir B suggested the ideal solution.
BB.
In reply to Post #282
It seems to me our left wing members make a bigger deal of it than it, perhaps is, because they suffer from white privilege guilt.
sorry but what an utterly stupid thing to say. You moan about negative reception but then say stuff like that intending to insult anyone that doesnt agree with your views
It seems to me our left wing members make a bigger deal of it than it, perhaps is, because they suffer from white privilege guilt.
sorry but what an utterly stupid thing to say. You moan about negative reception but then say stuff like that intending to insult anyone that doesnt agree with your views