In reply to Post #2250
I agree they deserve more, I said as much. But without higher taxes for everyone or cuts in other services it isn't possible in the traditional sense. Plus it's got to be a bitter pill for those left destitute by the pandemic who were told it was in the name of saving the nhs that the economy was allowed to collapse.
Maybe instead of point scoring the opposition parties and unions should be putting forward proposals to those in the population who haven't lost everything to voluntarily donate 1% of their incomes towards top up payments for frontline staff?
The analogy about servicemen was never going to wash with you mate, I know that. But the fact remains they aren't paid per life taken in the same way healthcare staff aren't paid per life saved.
You hear and read a lot of strong opinions on this, well opinions don't cover nhs staff parking costs. Too much anger and not enough action when it comes to financial hardship unfortunately. If of course you can call being in a job for life and having to pay to park financial hardship while people go through supermarket bins to feed their children?
I agree they deserve more, I said as much. But without higher taxes for everyone or cuts in other services it isn't possible in the traditional sense. Plus it's got to be a bitter pill for those left destitute by the pandemic who were told it was in the name of saving the nhs that the economy was allowed to collapse.
Maybe instead of point scoring the opposition parties and unions should be putting forward proposals to those in the population who haven't lost everything to voluntarily donate 1% of their incomes towards top up payments for frontline staff?
The analogy about servicemen was never going to wash with you mate, I know that. But the fact remains they aren't paid per life taken in the same way healthcare staff aren't paid per life saved.
You hear and read a lot of strong opinions on this, well opinions don't cover nhs staff parking costs. Too much anger and not enough action when it comes to financial hardship unfortunately. If of course you can call being in a job for life and having to pay to park financial hardship while people go through supermarket bins to feed their children?
In reply to Post #2251
Point scoring?
Starmer couldn't score a point in a tennis match with David Blunkett.
Point scoring?
Starmer couldn't score a point in a tennis match with David Blunkett.
In reply to Post #2251
i get your point re the services.
and I agree that solutions need to be put forward...
stop shovelling millions into Hs2 is a start.
it's not fair to say that nurses shouldn't get a better pay rise because other businesses have suffered - as actually has been said by MP's. And it's not fair to draw the comparison with food poverty - that existed prior to covid because of years of terrible government policy - admittedly not on the same scale.
It's not the nurses fault. they've been going to work - way beyond the normal (which was already a tough shift for the pay) - throughout. and the aftermath will involve more of the extra work as they try t catch up and deal with the long term effects. the billions that have been thrown at private business would cover a decent pay rise for nurses for decades if you want to draw that comparison - they're not asking for 80% are they?
it is emotive and brings out strong opinions. and I'm by no means dismissing the struggles that so many have had / will face due to this. I just think that of all the options, this one stinks.
edit - and not charging nurses for parking at work would be a good start too. I'm sure your mate doesn't have to pay to put petrol in his armoured car... (sarcasm smiley needed)
i get your point re the services.
and I agree that solutions need to be put forward...
stop shovelling millions into Hs2 is a start.
it's not fair to say that nurses shouldn't get a better pay rise because other businesses have suffered - as actually has been said by MP's. And it's not fair to draw the comparison with food poverty - that existed prior to covid because of years of terrible government policy - admittedly not on the same scale.
It's not the nurses fault. they've been going to work - way beyond the normal (which was already a tough shift for the pay) - throughout. and the aftermath will involve more of the extra work as they try t catch up and deal with the long term effects. the billions that have been thrown at private business would cover a decent pay rise for nurses for decades if you want to draw that comparison - they're not asking for 80% are they?
it is emotive and brings out strong opinions. and I'm by no means dismissing the struggles that so many have had / will face due to this. I just think that of all the options, this one stinks.
edit - and not charging nurses for parking at work would be a good start too. I'm sure your mate doesn't have to pay to put petrol in his armoured car... (sarcasm smiley needed)
In reply to Post #2253
Nurses shouldn't drive to work they should walk or cycle.
That's not my opinion by the way but the opinion of local councils who put planters in roads, gridlock them and say the answer is to walk or cycle.
Back on topic nurses should get more than 1%. I think they'll be a U turn on this
Nurses shouldn't drive to work they should walk or cycle.
That's not my opinion by the way but the opinion of local councils who put planters in roads, gridlock them and say the answer is to walk or cycle.
Back on topic nurses should get more than 1%. I think they'll be a U turn on this
In reply to Post #2249
As far as I'm aware troops do get paid more in times of official conflict if in theatre Noj.
This Tory government is always bleating on about making tough decisions, so make one and give these people a rise they deserve.
As far as I'm aware troops do get paid more in times of official conflict if in theatre Noj.
This Tory government is always bleating on about making tough decisions, so make one and give these people a rise they deserve.
In reply to Post #2255
Just for a little bit of balance.... and I anticipate this may go south, but the government is very adept at the divide and conquer routine and have already started the public/private lsector face off.
Public sector workers, in the main have carried on working through the pandemic, many at home. They haven't been furloughed, continue to pay tax, carried on supporting the economy as much as restrictions allow. But any pay rise is now deemed unaffordable.
It's the private sector and private companies who have been the beneficiaries of the furlough scheme. Public sector workers, including nurses, have experienced a real life drop in wages due to austerity. Private sector wages recovered to a much greater level prior to the pandemic.
It's also worth pointing out that MANY Public sector jobs are not very well paid. And l include nurses in that cohort.
Just for a little bit of balance.... and I anticipate this may go south, but the government is very adept at the divide and conquer routine and have already started the public/private lsector face off.
Public sector workers, in the main have carried on working through the pandemic, many at home. They haven't been furloughed, continue to pay tax, carried on supporting the economy as much as restrictions allow. But any pay rise is now deemed unaffordable.
It's the private sector and private companies who have been the beneficiaries of the furlough scheme. Public sector workers, including nurses, have experienced a real life drop in wages due to austerity. Private sector wages recovered to a much greater level prior to the pandemic.
It's also worth pointing out that MANY Public sector jobs are not very well paid. And l include nurses in that cohort.
In reply to Post #2256
absolutely agree
the divide and conquer tactics are a constant theme. public / private sector... north / south... old / young.... employed / unemployed.... white / not.... (i could go on...)
easy to maintain power over a divided populous. If the public were all to speak as one then they (government) would be in trouble wouldn't they...?
absolutely agree
the divide and conquer tactics are a constant theme. public / private sector... north / south... old / young.... employed / unemployed.... white / not.... (i could go on...)
easy to maintain power over a divided populous. If the public were all to speak as one then they (government) would be in trouble wouldn't they...?
In reply to Post #2256
Plenty of people in the private sector are poorly paid as well mate. When 6 out if 10 families fall into the bracket of living in poverty whilst in work something is seriously wrong. Somewhere in the region of 6 million working people are in receipt of benefits The concept and social contract of working hard to get you and yours out of poverty is being crushed by a number of factors. Only Government can alter this downward spiral and as this lot are a major contributor to the problem, it doesn't look good.
Plenty of people in the private sector are poorly paid as well mate. When 6 out if 10 families fall into the bracket of living in poverty whilst in work something is seriously wrong. Somewhere in the region of 6 million working people are in receipt of benefits The concept and social contract of working hard to get you and yours out of poverty is being crushed by a number of factors. Only Government can alter this downward spiral and as this lot are a major contributor to the problem, it doesn't look good.
In reply to Post #2258
Also as a generalisation private sector workers tend to lose their jobs far more often than public sector.
Q How much do Tesco's pay for shelf stacking on Christmas Day
A Time and a quarter
Q Who would bother
A Those who are temps but hoping to impress so they get made permanent on a contract of 15 hours/week.
Change of topic
My missus tested 110 school kids for covid today and all were negative.
4 weren't tested because their parents would not allow it. Idiots.
Also as a generalisation private sector workers tend to lose their jobs far more often than public sector.
Q How much do Tesco's pay for shelf stacking on Christmas Day
A Time and a quarter
Q Who would bother
A Those who are temps but hoping to impress so they get made permanent on a contract of 15 hours/week.
Change of topic
My missus tested 110 school kids for covid today and all were negative.
4 weren't tested because their parents would not allow it. Idiots.
In reply to Post #2259
Many are generally better qualified because a lot of jobs in the public sector require job specific qualifications and because it's service based, there's nearly always a demand for staff.
Newsflash! Public sector employees are exploited too. I work in children's social care and local authorities take the piss. Loads of social workers regularly work 47 to 50 hour weeks just to standstill. Nowhere does it say in the contract you work for free...
Many are generally better qualified because a lot of jobs in the public sector require job specific qualifications and because it's service based, there's nearly always a demand for staff.
Newsflash! Public sector employees are exploited too. I work in children's social care and local authorities take the piss. Loads of social workers regularly work 47 to 50 hour weeks just to standstill. Nowhere does it say in the contract you work for free...
In reply to Post #2260
The idea of starting and stopping work at specific times and having proper breaks from the work place is something that is being eroded everywhere whether it's private or public sector.
Even my missus who is a humble teaching assistant brings her laptop home at night and does work, she says it makes the next day easier but that can't be true as she would not need to bring it home the next night
The idea of starting and stopping work at specific times and having proper breaks from the work place is something that is being eroded everywhere whether it's private or public sector.
Even my missus who is a humble teaching assistant brings her laptop home at night and does work, she says it makes the next day easier but that can't be true as she would not need to bring it home the next night
In reply to Post #2261
The "idea" as you call it is certainly going to get more demanding for the employee. A big criticism of the EU by the rubber heads was of how protectionist it is, not for us in the UK was the mantra. Well that's a two way street while you're a member, you're competing with companies and countries with similar standards and therefore costs. Global Britain will be competing with many countries that aren't democratic and certainly don't have similar standards for companies, employees or the environment. The race to the bottom is underway.
The "idea" as you call it is certainly going to get more demanding for the employee. A big criticism of the EU by the rubber heads was of how protectionist it is, not for us in the UK was the mantra. Well that's a two way street while you're a member, you're competing with companies and countries with similar standards and therefore costs. Global Britain will be competing with many countries that aren't democratic and certainly don't have similar standards for companies, employees or the environment. The race to the bottom is underway.
In reply to Post #2262
Maybe depends on the country, there's still French people that take a proper break to have a proper lunch.
There's no global market involved when it comes to local authorities which Blackfield was complaing about.
Mal's certainly not overworked, spends too much time on here the lazy ****
Maybe depends on the country, there's still French people that take a proper break to have a proper lunch.
There's no global market involved when it comes to local authorities which Blackfield was complaing about.
Mal's certainly not overworked, spends too much time on here the lazy ****
In reply to Post #2263
Good luck and long may it continue for those French and any others that do.
Of course the global market especially the markets we compete in have gravity in the public sector ffs. Competition for people and :- wages/condition's are interlinked. It's clearly been marked downwards by Johnson and Co so more austerity without saying it.
Good luck and long may it continue for those French and any others that do.
Of course the global market especially the markets we compete in have gravity in the public sector ffs. Competition for people and :- wages/condition's are interlinked. It's clearly been marked downwards by Johnson and Co so more austerity without saying it.
In reply to Post #2263
cheeky fecker
ordinarily i'd watch the footy but....
and have you considered that whilst i'm sorting you lot out in here, it's because i'm doing the same as mrs tinhead and have the laptop out until silly o'clock...? I know very few teachers / TA's who 'finish work' when that final bell goes.
out of interest - what's the protocol for testing at your good lady's place? our gcse students came in two days last week (y11 thursday / y10 friday) and went straight home (or wherever their mates were gathering in large groups...) Same again today for y11 and tomorrow for y10. staggered start to resuming teaching from tomorrow. ks3 kids will be going out of lessons from weds - friday. it's a proper logistical operation (1500 of the little beggars).
i've been tested twice a week at school over lockdown when i've been in supervising. from this week, we have self test kits.
as for the ongoing discussions re private / public sector.... blackfield called it. look at us divided and arguing the toss over that whilst boris and co screw the nurses / care sector over... again... (not that they'll stop for the sake of the carp forum news thread, but we're a microcosm - albeit a non representational one)
I - like a few on here possibly - have experience of private sector / self employed and public sector. it's just a different set of people who will look to screw you over in each area. private - the bosses / shareholders. self employed - HMRC. public - government / Local authority.
actually - the government are screwing you over for all 3...
cheeky fecker
ordinarily i'd watch the footy but....
and have you considered that whilst i'm sorting you lot out in here, it's because i'm doing the same as mrs tinhead and have the laptop out until silly o'clock...? I know very few teachers / TA's who 'finish work' when that final bell goes.
out of interest - what's the protocol for testing at your good lady's place? our gcse students came in two days last week (y11 thursday / y10 friday) and went straight home (or wherever their mates were gathering in large groups...) Same again today for y11 and tomorrow for y10. staggered start to resuming teaching from tomorrow. ks3 kids will be going out of lessons from weds - friday. it's a proper logistical operation (1500 of the little beggars).
i've been tested twice a week at school over lockdown when i've been in supervising. from this week, we have self test kits.
as for the ongoing discussions re private / public sector.... blackfield called it. look at us divided and arguing the toss over that whilst boris and co screw the nurses / care sector over... again... (not that they'll stop for the sake of the carp forum news thread, but we're a microcosm - albeit a non representational one)
I - like a few on here possibly - have experience of private sector / self employed and public sector. it's just a different set of people who will look to screw you over in each area. private - the bosses / shareholders. self employed - HMRC. public - government / Local authority.
actually - the government are screwing you over for all 3...