In reply to Post #208
In reply to Post #206
Thanks Tim. Every now and then you get a post like this, from someone who is aware.
Thanks Tim. Every now and then you get a post like this, from someone who is aware.
In reply to Post #201
Nah the problem there with the kites is human once more, feeding them! Can't feed them human food and then be surprised when the masters of the air want to start helping themselves
Nah the problem there with the kites is human once more, feeding them! Can't feed them human food and then be surprised when the masters of the air want to start helping themselves
In reply to Post #213
Red kites are like ravens ,and crows ,basically carrion feeders. If you put out food for them you are going to have a population explosion. Similar to the urban fox overpopulation. Which has resulted in mangy, scrawny,
half starved animals that only find release when they get run over in their droves. It's very sad because it's unnatural and shouldn't ,and wouldn't , happen without human intervention.
Red kites are like ravens ,and crows ,basically carrion feeders. If you put out food for them you are going to have a population explosion. Similar to the urban fox overpopulation. Which has resulted in mangy, scrawny,
half starved animals that only find release when they get run over in their droves. It's very sad because it's unnatural and shouldn't ,and wouldn't , happen without human intervention.
In reply to Post #214
This isn't aimed at you mate, but at what point do a group angling for captive bred fish, surviving on a supplemented diet to encourage unnatural growth, stocked with the sole intention of being caught become hypocrites when talking about natural balance and ecosystems?
This isn't aimed at you mate, but at what point do a group angling for captive bred fish, surviving on a supplemented diet to encourage unnatural growth, stocked with the sole intention of being caught become hypocrites when talking about natural balance and ecosystems?
In reply to Post #215
👍🏻 If you love the fish that much you wouldn't be attempting to place a hook in its mouth to capture it. You would turn up with sunglasses, camera and hopefully get a piccy of it in the margins. I happily go to a lake to fish but wouldn't dream f fishing in my garden pond 😀 My Mrs now wishes we had made the pond bigger so if everyone wants to chip in for digger, liner, filter etc... I will cover the cost of the fencing 😀
Get me gong all PETAish 😂😂😂
👍🏻 If you love the fish that much you wouldn't be attempting to place a hook in its mouth to capture it. You would turn up with sunglasses, camera and hopefully get a piccy of it in the margins. I happily go to a lake to fish but wouldn't dream f fishing in my garden pond 😀 My Mrs now wishes we had made the pond bigger so if everyone wants to chip in for digger, liner, filter etc... I will cover the cost of the fencing 😀
Get me gong all PETAish 😂😂😂
In reply to Post #215
When they don't spend the money on a gatekeeper / otter fence or gamekeeper. To keep the predators down to a level that allows an ecological and sustainable level to be achieved.
When they don't spend the money on a gatekeeper / otter fence or gamekeeper. To keep the predators down to a level that allows an ecological and sustainable level to be achieved.
In reply to Post #217
My point is there's nothing natural about most fisheries, the predators wouldn't be there without us putting fish in there
My point is there's nothing natural about most fisheries, the predators wouldn't be there without us putting fish in there
In reply to Post #218
Likewise, otters wouldn't be about in their numbers causing a problem if man hadn't artificially reintroduced them en mass. Otter + big carp = nom nom nom.
Without anything higher up the food chain to keep their numbers in check, they'll naturally spread into areas in search of food.
There was never an otter problem until some bright spark thought, I know, why don't we introduce an apex predator that hasn't anything to keep the numbers down, make them a protected species...otter explosion. Bravo that idiot.
Likewise, otters wouldn't be about in their numbers causing a problem if man hadn't artificially reintroduced them en mass. Otter + big carp = nom nom nom.
Without anything higher up the food chain to keep their numbers in check, they'll naturally spread into areas in search of food.
There was never an otter problem until some bright spark thought, I know, why don't we introduce an apex predator that hasn't anything to keep the numbers down, make them a protected species...otter explosion. Bravo that idiot.
In reply to Post #219
Lol
Bravo the idiots that put all those big carp in the water to support the otters long enough to reproduce.
MAN INTRODUCED THE CARP... the otters were here first technically
Lol
Bravo the idiots that put all those big carp in the water to support the otters long enough to reproduce.
MAN INTRODUCED THE CARP... the otters were here first technically
In reply to Post #220
Oh, right.
Well, I hope that sometime in the near future there'll be legislation brought in that that'll make it legal to cull little furry Tarquin so as to bring back some kind of ballance. Maybe when lord Fontaroy gets his favourite salmon run smashed, things will change.
Oh, right.
Well, I hope that sometime in the near future there'll be legislation brought in that that'll make it legal to cull little furry Tarquin so as to bring back some kind of ballance. Maybe when lord Fontaroy gets his favourite salmon run smashed, things will change.
In reply to Post #221
Or Tarka and lord Fauntleroy
As everybody is so obsessed with natural balance maybe we should stop stocking fish and allow nature to run it's course, or give up fishing and start live baiting with 20lb carp and call it ottering.... or just fence the carp in and carry on over feeding, hooking, banking and starving them of oxygen because we love them so very dearly
Or Tarka and lord Fauntleroy
As everybody is so obsessed with natural balance maybe we should stop stocking fish and allow nature to run it's course, or give up fishing and start live baiting with 20lb carp and call it ottering.... or just fence the carp in and carry on over feeding, hooking, banking and starving them of oxygen because we love them so very dearly
In reply to Post #221
As if you didn't know otters are native to this country and have been here for longer than carp have
You'd think with all this talk of natural balance that people would deem it acceptable to try and reestablish an animal that humans nearly made extinct. The vibe I get is that rhinos being poached to extinction is some form of natural selection
It was a man made decline of otters, thus the solution is a man made one also. Don't get me wrong it's a total F up, and still is. Don't let anyone fool you in to thinking Natural England or the UKWOT actually care in the slightest about fisheries. I've had some conversations and asked some questions and I can tell you now that they literally don't give a toss, superficial gestures have been made to help but it's only to stop further outcry and possible legal challenges in the future.
The picture is very bleak, even with fencing.
As if you didn't know otters are native to this country and have been here for longer than carp have
You'd think with all this talk of natural balance that people would deem it acceptable to try and reestablish an animal that humans nearly made extinct. The vibe I get is that rhinos being poached to extinction is some form of natural selection
It was a man made decline of otters, thus the solution is a man made one also. Don't get me wrong it's a total F up, and still is. Don't let anyone fool you in to thinking Natural England or the UKWOT actually care in the slightest about fisheries. I've had some conversations and asked some questions and I can tell you now that they literally don't give a toss, superficial gestures have been made to help but it's only to stop further outcry and possible legal challenges in the future.
The picture is very bleak, even with fencing.
In reply to Post #223
with respect, ive never tried to fool anyone. NE and UKWOT do care.
with respect, ive never tried to fool anyone. NE and UKWOT do care.
In reply to Post #224
After speaking to them both at length, They don't. Sorry but if they did then why do they refuse to formally record releases? Why do they collect no data? Why do they allow illegal releases and not follow up with prosecutions? Telling people to put a fence up to protect their fisheries is the easy, barely helpful thing to do. Asking people releasing otters to ‘consider fisheries' when choosing a release site? But the release site doesn't need to be recorded. Therefore there can be no prosecutions if they don't.
I know you're in the PAG Joss, and fair play but in all honesty I'm not sure where the fight is going, it's been a while since we've heard which changes to the system are being fought for.
Protecting fisheries is fine but changing the system of unregulated releases and monitoring and data collection should be the priority. Formalising a release process which gets authorised by not only NE but also stakeholders surrounding the release site needs putting in place. Maybe going as far as getting carp OFF the non-native list too.
The current situation of being able to release an otter wherever you want without fear of prosecution or legal action if it happens to them destroy a business is not sustainable. No records kept and no monitoring. Dave Webb of UKWOT told me monitoring is “too hard” so they dont do it.
They don't care otherwise the system would be redesigned to ensure at minimum releases are properly regulated.
Anyway - here's me turning it in to the otter thread I said to keep it away from.
After speaking to them both at length, They don't. Sorry but if they did then why do they refuse to formally record releases? Why do they collect no data? Why do they allow illegal releases and not follow up with prosecutions? Telling people to put a fence up to protect their fisheries is the easy, barely helpful thing to do. Asking people releasing otters to ‘consider fisheries' when choosing a release site? But the release site doesn't need to be recorded. Therefore there can be no prosecutions if they don't.
I know you're in the PAG Joss, and fair play but in all honesty I'm not sure where the fight is going, it's been a while since we've heard which changes to the system are being fought for.
Protecting fisheries is fine but changing the system of unregulated releases and monitoring and data collection should be the priority. Formalising a release process which gets authorised by not only NE but also stakeholders surrounding the release site needs putting in place. Maybe going as far as getting carp OFF the non-native list too.
The current situation of being able to release an otter wherever you want without fear of prosecution or legal action if it happens to them destroy a business is not sustainable. No records kept and no monitoring. Dave Webb of UKWOT told me monitoring is “too hard” so they dont do it.
They don't care otherwise the system would be redesigned to ensure at minimum releases are properly regulated.
Anyway - here's me turning it in to the otter thread I said to keep it away from.