In reply to Post #2190
Do you think hippies would've embraced a vaccine program back in the day, Mal?
Do you think hippies would've embraced a vaccine program back in the day, Mal?
In reply to Post #2191
if it was available in 'smokable' form maybe...?
if it was available in 'smokable' form maybe...?
In reply to Post #2192
Far out
Far out
Triggered guys..... 
It's about choice and freedoms with an effective Vaccine in place......
It's about choice and freedoms with an effective Vaccine in place......
In reply to Post #2188
Well said Ken
Well said Ken
In reply to Post #2196
Tip of the iceberg mate
But yes. They need holding to account for all of it
Tip of the iceberg mate
But yes. They need holding to account for all of it
In reply to Post #2189
It's a very slippery slope we are on, any removal of liberty or freedom to disagree should be fought against, whether you agree with the case or not... What was it the Manic Street Preachers paraphrased? "If you tolerate this then your children will be next......"
Vaccine passports will undoubtedly be just be a start, freedom should never be taken for granted, and the ability to be able to voice opinions or views should be a god given right especially in a so called democracy like the UK. The gradual creep of liberal rights been removed, is imperceptible until you have no rights at all.
As Martin Niemoller famously said, and in doing so admitting he had been one not to speak out..
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out..Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out...Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out...Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me.....and there was no one left to speak for me."
It's a very slippery slope we are on, any removal of liberty or freedom to disagree should be fought against, whether you agree with the case or not... What was it the Manic Street Preachers paraphrased? "If you tolerate this then your children will be next......"
Vaccine passports will undoubtedly be just be a start, freedom should never be taken for granted, and the ability to be able to voice opinions or views should be a god given right especially in a so called democracy like the UK. The gradual creep of liberal rights been removed, is imperceptible until you have no rights at all.
As Martin Niemoller famously said, and in doing so admitting he had been one not to speak out..
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out..Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out...Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out...Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me.....and there was no one left to speak for me."
In reply to Post #2198
Seriously, bud. There are many more serious and important things going on which are destroying democracy. And covid vaccinations ain't one of them.
FWIW, I'm very Liberal and have no problem with the concept of vaccination passports. I'm much more worried about the ignorant and selfish ****s who want to have their cake and eat it and put everyone they come into contact with at risk because they read some bull**** on social media.
Seriously, bud. There are many more serious and important things going on which are destroying democracy. And covid vaccinations ain't one of them.
FWIW, I'm very Liberal and have no problem with the concept of vaccination passports. I'm much more worried about the ignorant and selfish ****s who want to have their cake and eat it and put everyone they come into contact with at risk because they read some bull**** on social media.
In reply to Post #2198
We have been on a slippery slope for some time now , but you are barking up the wrong tree with that one !
We have been on a slippery slope for some time now , but you are barking up the wrong tree with that one !
In reply to Post #2199
I'm very much in agreement
I'm in no way a supporter of the gradual rewriting of our rights and laws by an increasingly underhand government - but the covid anti vaccination thing pees me off. it's not about control, it's about protection of self and others.
'i want to preserve my right to pass on a potentially lethal virus to others' - selfish b*****ks. like a 20 mile per hour speed limit next to a school infringes your basic human right to drive really fast past a load of kids....
If I knew a restaurant near me was running a 'passport' type set up, it would be immediately higher on my list of choices for a meal out with my family. it's not elitism when the entire adult (and who knows - maybe afterwards they'll look at children too) nation is going to be offered the vaccine.
after the devastation it has brought to the country I still can't believe how selfish some people are being. If it's a case of misinformation, then some targeted redressing the balance is needed. there are some people who are fearful through simply getting the wrong message. this needs to be addressed at source as well as with the people who are duped.
and there are some people who can't have the vaccine for medical reasons - but this can be addressed too with a simple exemption that could as easily set up as the passport app.
just read that furlough has been extended until September - maybe make that dependent on getting a jab and see how it shakes things up...
I'm very much in agreement
I'm in no way a supporter of the gradual rewriting of our rights and laws by an increasingly underhand government - but the covid anti vaccination thing pees me off. it's not about control, it's about protection of self and others.
'i want to preserve my right to pass on a potentially lethal virus to others' - selfish b*****ks. like a 20 mile per hour speed limit next to a school infringes your basic human right to drive really fast past a load of kids....
If I knew a restaurant near me was running a 'passport' type set up, it would be immediately higher on my list of choices for a meal out with my family. it's not elitism when the entire adult (and who knows - maybe afterwards they'll look at children too) nation is going to be offered the vaccine.
after the devastation it has brought to the country I still can't believe how selfish some people are being. If it's a case of misinformation, then some targeted redressing the balance is needed. there are some people who are fearful through simply getting the wrong message. this needs to be addressed at source as well as with the people who are duped.
and there are some people who can't have the vaccine for medical reasons - but this can be addressed too with a simple exemption that could as easily set up as the passport app.
just read that furlough has been extended until September - maybe make that dependent on getting a jab and see how it shakes things up...
In reply to Post #2199
But it is mate, through an almost imperceptible creep, it's just one of a multitude of changes to democracy. How can we be a democracy when we can't have opposition or go against the status quo? By the time we've let it happen, it's too late to change. The likes of de Pfiffell and Sir Kier will still be hanging around our necks like a noose in the future just like that ****tard Blair.
But it is mate, through an almost imperceptible creep, it's just one of a multitude of changes to democracy. How can we be a democracy when we can't have opposition or go against the status quo? By the time we've let it happen, it's too late to change. The likes of de Pfiffell and Sir Kier will still be hanging around our necks like a noose in the future just like that ****tard Blair.
In reply to Post #2201
Look at the BAME community, virtually no take up... Why? Mistrust of the establishment, a legacy of discrimination and historical and unethical medical practices. Who can blame them? Kick a dog in the balls and it ain't going to come and lick your face. Wheeling out some black sport star, actress or knight of the realm ain't going to pull the punches unfortunately.
You say you agree (and I'm not looking for an argument here btw), but then state using the vaccine as a tool to withhold people's rights, which is what any covax passport will be about, not getting into a nice restaurant or a long haul flight etc, but withholding basic access to healthcare, benefits, pensions etc.
It's a very steep slope we are on and the crocodiles are waiting at the bottom...
Look at the BAME community, virtually no take up... Why? Mistrust of the establishment, a legacy of discrimination and historical and unethical medical practices. Who can blame them? Kick a dog in the balls and it ain't going to come and lick your face. Wheeling out some black sport star, actress or knight of the realm ain't going to pull the punches unfortunately.
You say you agree (and I'm not looking for an argument here btw), but then state using the vaccine as a tool to withhold people's rights, which is what any covax passport will be about, not getting into a nice restaurant or a long haul flight etc, but withholding basic access to healthcare, benefits, pensions etc.
It's a very steep slope we are on and the crocodiles are waiting at the bottom...
Contactless increased to £100......... 
Well said Hadrian, Its not simply about being anti vax.........Its about the way it can manifest into so much more than simply protecting already vaccinated people who have a 80% less chance of serious illness......
Well said Hadrian, Its not simply about being anti vax.........Its about the way it can manifest into so much more than simply protecting already vaccinated people who have a 80% less chance of serious illness......
In reply to Post #2203
The historical - and still present - issues regarding our systems and the BAME community are definitely something that needs addressing. I'm in absolute agreement there. And that goes much deeper than reluctance to trust the covid jab. Systemic racism will do that unfortunately.
And as I said - there are many people who have been fed misinformation - this needs addressing in as many ways as possible. For some, maybe it is the Queen, for others it's Ian Mckellen or John Barnes or whoever. There's no one size fits all - so as many avenues as possible need to be explored.
However - there are those who are simply refusing based on other selfish reasons and it's hard to have sympathy for that attitude. It is a fact that vaccination against a virus reduces transmission rates (not just covid here). So if offered the vaccine and it is safe for you, then I believe you should have it.
I'm yet to see the proposals for the passport being used to deny pensions / benefits / healthcare (although the irony of that doesn't escape me - 'I want healhcare!' - ok here's some healthcare - 'i don't want your healhcare!' ...Or maybe 'I want healthcare!' - sorry we are busy dealing with more covid cases because the virus is still being passed on by people who didn't have a vaccine. you'll have to wait...)
The historical - and still present - issues regarding our systems and the BAME community are definitely something that needs addressing. I'm in absolute agreement there. And that goes much deeper than reluctance to trust the covid jab. Systemic racism will do that unfortunately.
And as I said - there are many people who have been fed misinformation - this needs addressing in as many ways as possible. For some, maybe it is the Queen, for others it's Ian Mckellen or John Barnes or whoever. There's no one size fits all - so as many avenues as possible need to be explored.
However - there are those who are simply refusing based on other selfish reasons and it's hard to have sympathy for that attitude. It is a fact that vaccination against a virus reduces transmission rates (not just covid here). So if offered the vaccine and it is safe for you, then I believe you should have it.
I'm yet to see the proposals for the passport being used to deny pensions / benefits / healthcare (although the irony of that doesn't escape me - 'I want healhcare!' - ok here's some healthcare - 'i don't want your healhcare!' ...Or maybe 'I want healthcare!' - sorry we are busy dealing with more covid cases because the virus is still being passed on by people who didn't have a vaccine. you'll have to wait...)