I'm looking for a new mainline a couple of months ago I decided to give fluorocarbon a go. Safe to say it's been a disaster ever since having spent 4 hours trying to get twists out in my local field I thought I had cracked it. I thought wrong using the drag on the reel and various other problems it just turned into a coiled spring.

So back to mono it is as braid is banned, looking for a heavy line suitable to cast 50/60 yards in a very coloured lake. Been looking at the new avid outline has anyone used it?? or have any suitable suggestions

Ta.

In reply to Post #1
Shimano Technium Black.
You won't go wrong with that.

In reply to Post #2
Or CM90 - very good also

Or Gr60, better than both of those

In reply to Post #4
Nope

In reply to Post #5
Yep

In reply to Post #1
Would also suggest Technium Black. Used it for several years now and can see no reason to change

In reply to Post #3
happy cm90 user also!

In reply to Post #4
What makes gr60 better than both?

Used tons over the years and always gone back to one...
Ultima F1 18lb in black...

In reply to Post #7
The thing is .... the best mono will always be the last one listed here of course. Sort of top trumps.

Now unless one has tried all the brands going in all situations there is no way any one person can say - this is the best. Also the amount of time needed to test all of those monos to garner an honest and knowledgeable opinion would be a lot longer than some have actually been fishing I am sure.

Also, mentioning a particular type is only a recommendation surely. The X is better than Y debate has to be qualified. For just one mono to be "better" it has to be better in all departments surely.

Most folks tend to recommend what they are using (you don't use crap right?). So how many lines has anyone ever used? Me personally, in the past two years I have used ESP Synchro (frizzes easily and has a bit of a memory - disappointed), Gardner GT-HD (this does not like clinch knots and it also has a memory and frizzes - very disappointed considering the hype it seems to get at times), Berkely CM90 - excellent in all depts compared to the other two (no memory, very limp, does not frizz and bulletproof using a palomar) - I am not changing unless they mess up the recipe. Prior to this I have used Daiwa Sensor (cheap, strong but great memory but mainly in 20lb test for pike and ferox when I lived in t'Lakes. This for it's tested abrasion resistance against a number of other brands around at the time - I did ask tackle dealers for samples you know.).

Back to today. In my example I cannot say that CM90 is better than all other lines on the market but it's the best I have used in recent years.

Yours might be better - but at least qualify that statement with why and compared to what (and if it is that good then why did you change from it to try something else in the first place?)

This is a bit tongue in cheek you know ......

In reply to Post #11
Most folks tend to recommend what they are using (you don't use crap right?). So how many lines has anyone ever used?

Hold my beer....

In reply to Post #11
I spooled up with gt-hd for the first time last year and it's been great. But I'm now a bit unsure whether to chance it again as there seems to be a definite pattern of others having issues with it on here.

I'm tempted to try the technium for the first time as over the last few years it seems to get the least poor feedback on here. Did they change it a while back or was that purely packaging?

In reply to Post #13
If you want to try it I've got one unopened spool and two half spools sitting down the garage. Only bought in March 2018. I won't be using them, pm me your address Ill chuck them in the post you can have them if you want

In reply to Post #12
Hold my beer ....

Don't trust me with your beer.

Yea I suppose if I go back to 1960 when I started fishing I could list a lot of monos that have slipped or grated through my rod rings over the years. Really though, we are talking modern-ish arent we?

When I think of some of the lines over the years. Sylcast Black for a start. Sold mine to the War Department to make barbed wire out of ...

Big Game ..... supposed to be the toughest line going. One of the lines I tested to destruction back in 1991 amongst many others garnered as samples from tackle shops. Thick and compared to others at the time that all got tested the same way, not particularly abrasion resistant.

Come to think of it - let me finish my whisky and you can hold my glass.

In reply to Post #11
What a great post. Wise words indeed.
Thanks for that, I'll give the cm90 a go next time I spool up.

In reply to Post #14
That's a very kind offer, but I'd feel a lot happier paying you for it.

In reply to Post #17
Mate is fine. I over ordered by mistake, it's sitting there doing nothing some one may as well have it

I love Shimano Technium Black in 12b, I've had carp to 42lb on it.

I'm sure Angling Direct were doing a deal that if you dispose of your old line your got the technium half price.

In reply to Post #19
Been using this all summer, been getting a bit of line twist lately but I guess that's from playing fish on the clutch. Seems pretty good other than twist

In reply to Post #15
Tried too many to list over the last 5vyears looking for the ultimate mono.

Cm90 and technium black are my favourites for suppleness lack of twist and good sinking.
Glt pro distance is good for casting even though it feels a little wiry sinks very well but does develope a little twist - still on my mono spools though better if you dont want a solid colour line like tech black and cm90

Esp syncro xt great for casting doesnt sink as well not quite as good abrasion as the above, nice and supple little twist
Esp syncro loaded had snap on me a couple times so lost confidence but probably bad luck on that one and seemed nice on the spools

Korda touchdown I thought was great until it started twisting to buggery on the last few meters literally had to cut off every session.

Tech invisitec was wiry and twisty nothing like tech black

Gthd was horrible came off the spool and went through the water in coils and looked like a laser beam in the water.

Gt80+ - horrible twist
Gr60 - pretty good but terrible to cast, great abrasion.
Gardner hydro tuff - very abrasion resistant, was actually quite happy with this line when fishing a weedy intimate water, not great for distance tho.
Gr60x - worst line I ever tested, couldn't believe the twist on it was insane..

Could go on for ever here...

In reply to Post #21
Not picking on you in particular, but I can never get my head round people complaining about mono twisting!
Good post though mate, some good info there instead of the usual line recommendation posts where each user just reels off (if you'll excuse the pun ) the mono they use, saying it's great.

Can't disagree with much posted on this thread at all.

Have a look at the ASSO lines as well, very good diameter to breaking strain ratio....in particular the Mainline Master which is Flourocarbon Coated......12lb breaking strain is .31mm...sinks well, hardly any twist at all..

In reply to Post #1
I always knew it would be a very subjective post.

As stated everyone's view is different and equally I guess everyone fishes differently. Cm90 and technium black have been mentioned a couple of times and definitely had the shimano in mind....

I'll give it a go and see how I get on. Anything has to be better than fishing with the coiled spring I currently have on the spool.

cheers again guys

In reply to Post #20
I can't say I've ever had line twist off it.

In reply to Post #25
Used a lot of carp lines for the last 35 years or so,been down the Fluro route to,but CM90 is without dought the best I've ever used,all I ever wanted from a line,was to sink,be abrasive resistant,knot well ,and most importantly simply behave on the spool,lots of line offer some of the above criteria,but the cm90 does it all,it's so limp,a single cast on arrival and away you go,it's very strong to ,it's very hard to see when you drop in the margins,but it simply does not coil up like a lot of it's competitors,I've even started using it now for hooklinks to,you need the right tools for any job,and cm90 fits the bill perfectly

In reply to Post #26
Agree 100% here Ian.

CM90 all the way

In reply to Post #27
That mirrors exactly my thoughts on CM90

In reply to Post #26
I tried the CM90. It behaved okay but I wasn't quite sure with the way it stood out like a sore thumb on my water.
Went back to Technium Black and it's much better.
So I guess it depends what colour water you fish mostly.
Tech Black suits a silty lake.

In reply to Post #29
Same here had terrible twist and the colour in water was awful.

I have been using prologic mimicry 15lb for a couple of seasons and am happy with it. Recently trip to france I bought the 18lb as I was going to be casting leads up to 4oz level line cast. Omg, terrible, practically throws itself off the spool, severe line twist and is a bitch to sink.

In reply to Post #31
Used it half this summer. Worst line I've ever used.
Rock hard (even destroyed one of my clips). It basically unspools by itself and is pretty much suspending in the water. Highly recommend not to buy that line.

Gardner Pro Light is worth a look, casts better than technium black ever did for me and that was a decent line too

In reply to Post #29
Gold label tackle pro distance is a nice line, colour is almost fluorescent bluey green on the spools but disappears alot better in the water and sinks like a brick

In reply to Post #32
Sounds like korda adrenna line that stuff was crap

Very happy with the Awa-S Ekon Carp Ion Power line.

Low stretch, high breaking strain, sinks well, very abrasion resistant, good on the knots, the whole package if you ask me, have not found any disadvantages after 2 years of use.

In reply to Post #26
what breaking strain do you use have you tried a few or just the one. I ordered some of the 18lb as it was only .02mm thicker than the 15lb. I'm guessing it will be slightly heavier and sink better

In reply to Post #37
Anybody used pb products control mono?
Pretty impressive bs to diameter (if true)
15 lb cm90 is. 38 diameter quite thick..
15 control is a standard. 35 but a 24 lb bs.

In reply to Post #38
Would it be fair to say that any line will twist if you play fish off the clutch and the only way to get rid of the twists is to use a spin doctor or run your line out across a field.

In reply to Post #39
I've used a spin doctor and found it to work well. About 3 casts at varied distances. Line twist seems to be worse using thicker line in a Heli arrangement.

Looking through old threads as I need to load up new reels.

Narrowed it down to technium black or CM90 from reviews on here however unlike the original post the lakes I fish tend to be clearer water with the odd weedbed in the summer months. Needs to be a minimum 15lb BS and max cast will be 100 yds.

What would people recommend?

In reply to Post #41
Any 15 lb mono will do 100 yards imo so take your pick.
I always err on the side of caution and use beast lines i.e. Hydrotuff.

In reply to Post #42
I used to swear by 15lb gt-hd for years but the last spool I had was terrible!
I had it snap 3 times on me so ditched it for 15lb Esp syncro xt which is bullet proof!

In reply to Post #43
If you have taken it to extreme, pulled for a break you will have compromised the whole length between the rod tip to the end tackle. If it has broken once, the whole length out is now suspect.

Here is something for you that I have been told by an engineer recently who tests monofilament and braids for a living, and his fishing: UV light does NOT degrade fishing line. That thought comes from a years ago test where an named angler broke old line. However, it was later found that the line had been taken beyond its yield (breaking) point a few days previously.

If you have sheared or abraded the line you have immediately reduced its strength. If you have excessively twisted the line you have potentially weakened it.
Slightly chipped or cracked rod rings can take chunks out of your line.
Casting, hitting the clip with an 'over hard' cast can cause a break if the line is damaged. In fact if you hit the clip too hard, you can stretch the line beyond breaking point.


I'm looking for a new mainline a couple of months ago I decided to give fluorocarbon a go. Safe to say it's been a disaster ever since having spent 4 hours trying to get twists out in my local field I thought I had cracked it. I thought wrong using the drag on the reel and various other problems it just turned into a coiled spring.

So back to mono it is as braid is banned, looking for a heavy line suitable to cast 50/60 yards in a very coloured lake. Been looking at the new avid outline has anyone used it?? or have any suitable suggestions

Ta.




Lines I have used for years with no problems are some of the cheapest on the market, Daiwa Sensor in brown, and Gardner Pro blend in light or dark.

Many lines, despite the brand name are made in the same factory, are the same line, just with a different tackle brand name. The only difference between some is the dye used to colour the line.

In reply to Post #44
Berkley have a vested interest in that being true, but still advise that prolonged exposure to uv can weaken it.
Or do you think the US market also follow the incorrect advice of a ‘named angler' that pulled for a break and tested the line shortly after?

In reply to Post #42
Thanks all, as its winter and the lakes are a little quieter I have decided to do some self testing and figure out what suits me from your suggestions.

Have previsously used sensor in 12lb for my fishing but new rules have made me think of trying something different (we all get that itch now and again don't we?)

I'm going to trial the following for now as suggested:

ESP syncro
Gardner hydrotuff
Cm90

In reply to Post #44
Nick, that's very true. I had a long conversation with a tackle shop owner that said most lines are made in the same factory and just labelled up for different manufacturers.

In reply to Post #47
Made in the same factory does not mean it's all the same line. I think it's more important to strip back line that's been stretched to it's limit or roughened up on weed or gravel.

In reply to Post #48
Gr60

Katran Synapse.

This theory that UV light damages nylon, ok, check what many of your clothes are made of, types of nylon.

I think that there are only six nylon monofilament producers or factories in the world.

Even these factories are not always producing nylon monofilament specifically for fishing, they will be used in other industries, rope making as a possible example.
The dye used to colour the line can change its strength and how supple it is. I personally found many clear lines are stiffer than coloured lines, and don't knot as tidily.

Personally I have tested a number of mono's over time, from good old Sylcast to Daiwa, Gardner Pro, Nash Bullet and Big Game. Abrasion resistance, yield, knot strength and even line twist. Strangely enough pretty much what Dave Holden of the PAC has been doing for years and writing about in his Pikelines articles.

I also found that line loading is easier than many people think, and I rarely suffer from line twist since I started loading line this way. I put the new line in a bucket of water, and take it back to the reel through the butt eye of the rod. I then wind it onto the reel allowing it to choose its own rotation in the bucket. As I cut the line when the reel is full any twist comes out.
By playing fish off the clutch and allowing line off the reel on a baitrunner you add in twist, which is not always removed by casting.

Many lines are made to sound better than they are by overrating them.
Call a line with a diameter of 0.38-0.40mm 15lb and it breaks at 18-20lb then you have overrated it, and 'lied' to the end user. A 0.38mm line is actually 18lb, 0.40 is 20lb. 15lb is usually 0.35mm.

In reply to Post #51
How does cutting your line once loaded allow any twist to come out?

In reply to Post #51
Bravo Nick.
You went the long way around the houses and didn't really address the point
Don't see what clothes, Dave Holden (whoever that is), line twist or diameter have to do with UV deterioration

Golden rules for Fluorocarbon lines:

Once on the reel (doesn't matter if you use warm, hot or cold water as fluorocarbons do not absorb water like monos do) make sure that you stretch it out PROPERLY over a field etc. Pull to almost breaking point half a dozen times ( I place a no-slip loop onto a bivvy peg pushed as far into the ground as possible- a 12" T peg is perfect if you have them as they will never move however hard you pull), then tkae the peg out of the ground and reel back on through a damp cloth under tension (the damp cloth keeps even tension on the line as well as getting rid of any crap that may stick to it being reeled across the ground (damp grass is best without any lead etc on the end of it so it can "turn" freely as the twists are straightened out). You may need to do this several times per spool to get 99% of the line twist & any memory out of it.

Do not use it with Super Slow Oscillation reels. These are great for braid or mono but a nightmare for fluorocarbons for some reason. The tight coils & the inherent springiness of the fluorocarbon is a recipe for coils coming off the spool when you don't want them to. The slowest oscillation I would use fluorocarbons with is the Shimano Ultegra Ci4 XTC with it's 50 coils per spool oscillation. Any more than that & you are risking over runs.

NEVER use the clutch to play the fish on! Fluorocarbon retains twists like a MoFo & using the drag to play fish will, cause it to curl up & become almost unmanageable after a couple of sessions if not looked after again. With a free spool function for takes, use the tightest setting that you dare. Backwind when playing fish (same with Mono's but mono is a lot more forgiving than Fluorocarbons).

Clean it after every session. At least after every session chuck out a bare lead & run it back through a damp cloth to remove any particles that may have attached themselves to the line when in the water. Fluorocarbons are almost "magnetic" when it comes to waterborne particulates. Also helps to remove some of the twist that the line may have picked up during the session.

Stretch it like you did when putting it on the spool for first time after every third or fourth session. You will thank me for this!

Fluorocarbons should never be fished tight to the lead as they will attract any particulates floating about in the water like a magnet & iron filings. This will turn an "almost invisible" line in to a tow rope! Fluorocarbons are no less visible in freshwater than a standard clear mono is. Fluorocarbon is a lot denser than mono or co-polymer lines so will sink like a brick and best fished slack or extremely semi-slack for best results.

I use fluorocarbons almost exclusively barring distance casting and have no issues whatsoever with them by following the above. I also save myself a fair bit of money as I only need to change the line once every year as it has been looked after. Fluorocarbons are not like mono's which weaken if exposed to UV light and moisture a lot. Fluorocarbons are certainly not for the angler that doesn't like to make sure everything is 100% with their gear.

In reply to Post #44
UV light does NOT degrade fishing line.

Prolonged exposure to UV light and damp conditions will lessen the life of monofilament nylon lines - FACT. Don't care what anyone says or what their job is, I have been told the same thing (and experienced it with nylon monofilaments personally) by several people who actually produce lines for a living not just test them. Fluorocarbon coated mono's will suffer less from the UV & dampness deterioration of lines because of the coating that does not absorb water and "disperses" UV light in a different manner to nylon monofilaments. UV light is not the main cause for nylon mono's to degrade, but the absorption of moisture and drying out again that causes them to go brittle, which is enhanced by UV light.

In reply to Post #21
So in conclusion your favourite line is...... CM90 right?

In reply to Post #46
Which came out top?

In reply to Post #28
as CM90 is discontinued, what are you using today?thx.

In reply to Post #58
I switched to Gardner Tackle GT-HD last year after using the Pro stuff for years - can't see myself changing anytime soon....

In reply to Post #59
Gardner Tackle GT-HD has mixed reviews, seems best reviews are for.. ESP Syncro XT 👍

In reply to Post #60
Quote: Gardner Tackle GT-HD has mixed reviews, seems best reviews are for.. ESP Syncro XT

Not recently, check this thread.

LINKY POO™ https://www.carpforum.co.uk/MessagesDesktop.asp?TopicID=451071

Both the Kaizen and Thinking Anglers mono is worth a look. I was a CM90 devotee and the former hasn’t caused me any issues - so far (about a year).

In reply to Post #61
thx for posting, u saved me time & cash, but this new line research is causing me a ****** headache!!!

I know many people don't rate it but I've been using Ridgemonkey RM-Tec lately and I've been very impressed... it knots well, behaves well and sinks well... what else do you need?

In reply to Post #63
PB Hybron. . . the 0.40 is weirdly more user friendly than the 0.35 . . .I've been using it since release after ditching fluro (based on continual agg) . . .sinks just as well / quickly, casts a lot better and is way easier to manage . . .0.40 abrasion resistance also decent - only downside is cost compared to other lines