Do you think in general we use hooks far too thick, and too large for carp fishing in the UK? I only ask as many people that carp fish don't all catch 40lb fish, and doubles and 20s making up the vast majority. It seems a size 4 hook is very heavy and big in relation the that size fishes mouth?
Having watched a lot of good match anglers recently, they land very big fish (doubles) on strong size 18s 16s hooks on a regular basis. It seems at times some of the over-complicated rigs we use today demand big hooks for the mechanics to work. Question open for debate, just don't argue with each other is all I ask.
Having watched a lot of good match anglers recently, they land very big fish (doubles) on strong size 18s 16s hooks on a regular basis. It seems at times some of the over-complicated rigs we use today demand big hooks for the mechanics to work. Question open for debate, just don't argue with each other is all I ask.
In reply to Post #1
Don't argue !!
Did you really say that ?
You are on the carp forum
Good job you didn'tmention bait lol
An 8 isn't that big when put against a once average 20 lb
Don't argue !!
Did you really say that ?
You are on the carp forum
Good job you didn'tmention bait lol
An 8 isn't that big when put against a once average 20 lb
In reply to Post #1
Every situation is different, experiment and see, but if I can go big I usually do , if 6 and 4 is big
Every situation is different, experiment and see, but if I can go big I usually do , if 6 and 4 is big
In reply to Post #1
I always want to be using strong tackle that is up to the job.
I always want to be using strong tackle that is up to the job.
In reply to Post #1
To be honest every situation is different, every lake is different, even the fish are different.
I will quite happily use a size 2 or 4 hook for chub around 3lbs upwards, monster mouth, and the same for big carp over double figures if the situation warrants it; as in fish strain with a big mouth. I have had big bream and tench (big as in 8lb +) on the same hooks!
In terms of match fishing, I think that the hook size is in relation to bait size, and even the feeding.
A size 10 hook with two maggots, and sprayed maggot over the top, will behave unnaturally, the fish can identify it easily. Go to a size 16 or 18, the bait will fall slower and behave more naturally, leading to more and bigger fish.
I think to understand some of the difference you would need to go back in time to the 'invention' or publication of the hair rig by Kevin Maddocks, even to the days of particle fishing and attaching hemp to the hook, Dickie Caldwell and Rod Hutchinson.
Float fishing, or even ledgering with bait on the hook you need a smaller hook compared to hair rigging the bait.
In theory a larger hook will get a more assured hookhold.
When I floater fish I use the smallest lightest hook I can safely get away with, a size 10 or even 12.
The hair however means that I can use larger hooks when bottom fishing. (Rare for me to use a proper hair when surface fishing for chub or carp).
To be honest every situation is different, every lake is different, even the fish are different.
I will quite happily use a size 2 or 4 hook for chub around 3lbs upwards, monster mouth, and the same for big carp over double figures if the situation warrants it; as in fish strain with a big mouth. I have had big bream and tench (big as in 8lb +) on the same hooks!
In terms of match fishing, I think that the hook size is in relation to bait size, and even the feeding.
A size 10 hook with two maggots, and sprayed maggot over the top, will behave unnaturally, the fish can identify it easily. Go to a size 16 or 18, the bait will fall slower and behave more naturally, leading to more and bigger fish.
I think to understand some of the difference you would need to go back in time to the 'invention' or publication of the hair rig by Kevin Maddocks, even to the days of particle fishing and attaching hemp to the hook, Dickie Caldwell and Rod Hutchinson.
Float fishing, or even ledgering with bait on the hook you need a smaller hook compared to hair rigging the bait.
In theory a larger hook will get a more assured hookhold.
When I floater fish I use the smallest lightest hook I can safely get away with, a size 10 or even 12.
The hair however means that I can use larger hooks when bottom fishing. (Rare for me to use a proper hair when surface fishing for chub or carp).
In reply to Post #1
Do we use hooks far too thick and too big for carp fishing??? No. No way.
You mentioned match anglers using small hooks to land doubles on sizes 16 & 18 hooks. Match anglers are using far more forgiving tackle than we are. Their rods are a far lighter t/c, more responsive tip and have a far better through action, which help set the hook and keep it in place far more effectively than a your standard 2.75lb tc, or 3lb tc carp rod can. Also, match anglers use finer monofilament with far more stretch than carp anglers.
As a general rule of thumb, carp anglers are relying on the sharpness of the hook, rig mechanics, or the weight of the lead to set the hook. Also, we're almost always casting at far greater ranges than match anglers are: 50 yards is extreme range for a match angler.
The very nature of the tackle used to cast heavy leads medium to long range require big strong hooks. But, even fishing in the margins, you would stand a far better chance of landing a carp with a size 6 hook than you would with a size 16 most definitely.
Besides, a carp doesn't know what a hook is. They expel far bigger items than hooks, like stones, stems, shells etc from their mouths all the time when they're feeding.
Do we use hooks far too thick and too big for carp fishing??? No. No way.
You mentioned match anglers using small hooks to land doubles on sizes 16 & 18 hooks. Match anglers are using far more forgiving tackle than we are. Their rods are a far lighter t/c, more responsive tip and have a far better through action, which help set the hook and keep it in place far more effectively than a your standard 2.75lb tc, or 3lb tc carp rod can. Also, match anglers use finer monofilament with far more stretch than carp anglers.
As a general rule of thumb, carp anglers are relying on the sharpness of the hook, rig mechanics, or the weight of the lead to set the hook. Also, we're almost always casting at far greater ranges than match anglers are: 50 yards is extreme range for a match angler.
The very nature of the tackle used to cast heavy leads medium to long range require big strong hooks. But, even fishing in the margins, you would stand a far better chance of landing a carp with a size 6 hook than you would with a size 16 most definitely.
Besides, a carp doesn't know what a hook is. They expel far bigger items than hooks, like stones, stems, shells etc from their mouths all the time when they're feeding.
In reply to Post #1
Bigger the hook the more chance it catching the fishes mouth.
A size 6 in one pattern may be bigger/smaller compared to a size 6 in another pattern.
I tend use 4's in France and 6's in UK for fishing basic rigs on the bottom.
No doubt some will argue against that but I won't be, we all have our own ideas, I won't be forcing my opinion on someone else
Bigger the hook the more chance it catching the fishes mouth.
A size 6 in one pattern may be bigger/smaller compared to a size 6 in another pattern.
I tend use 4's in France and 6's in UK for fishing basic rigs on the bottom.
No doubt some will argue against that but I won't be, we all have our own ideas, I won't be forcing my opinion on someone else
In reply to Post #7
I tend to use size 5 because I can see them better than anything smaller lol
I tend to use size 5 because I can see them better than anything smaller lol
In reply to Post #8
How did I ever tie up a 24 years ago
How did I ever tie up a 24 years ago
In reply to Post #1
Let's not forget that there are some doubles with huge mouths, and some 30's and 40's with fairly small mouths!
In my view a big hook is more likely to land the fish, and is less likely to cause damage to the fishes mouth.
Let's not forget that there are some doubles with huge mouths, and some 30's and 40's with fairly small mouths!
In my view a big hook is more likely to land the fish, and is less likely to cause damage to the fishes mouth.
In reply to Post #1
You've not mentioned hook size in relation to hookbait size. A size 18 with a 16mm boiled bait/pop up will lead to very poor mechanics. Whack a size 4 on and a pop up becomes deadly. In fact I think big hooks work better than small ones for small pop ups too. Unlike a bottom bait you're actually looking for imbalance when fishing pop ups so a little 11 mm pop on a massive 4 or 2 becomes lethal.
You've not mentioned hook size in relation to hookbait size. A size 18 with a 16mm boiled bait/pop up will lead to very poor mechanics. Whack a size 4 on and a pop up becomes deadly. In fact I think big hooks work better than small ones for small pop ups too. Unlike a bottom bait you're actually looking for imbalance when fishing pop ups so a little 11 mm pop on a massive 4 or 2 becomes lethal.