In reply to Post #86
This question ffs.
But if it doesnt have the lead, why is it any more dangerous than any other rig?
This question ffs.
But if it doesnt have the lead, why is it any more dangerous than any other rig?
In reply to Post #90
But. Whilst youve said this. I would not call this a safe rig at all. In the event of a crack off, the fish is trailing the lead around with it in the hope that the lead gets snagged up amd only then can it eject the lead. How on earth can you think this is safe
But. Whilst youve said this. I would not call this a safe rig at all. In the event of a crack off, the fish is trailing the lead around with it in the hope that the lead gets snagged up amd only then can it eject the lead. How on earth can you think this is safe
In reply to Post #91
You say in post 87 I'm confusing you , I'm explain in layman's terms, and now that wasn't what you were asking? Oh dear God give me strength.
Right, with a lead a naked system,whatever it may be, will generally be safer than one using a leader(assuming it is set up and used correctly )
If using a Heli with a leader, then you must have the lead fixed to make it as safe as possible(assuming it is set up and used correctly)
If using a Heli without a leader then it will be no more or less safe than other systems without using a leader. (assuming that it is set up and used correctly)
If using leadclips or running leads with a leader then that is dangerous and cannot be used safely
If using tubing with a Heli then the same rules apply as to using a leader with them
If using tubing on a clip then the lead being on will work as an anchor like it would with a Heli, and give the chance of the tubing to slide off of the mainline , if the lead happens to get snagged up before that happens then the clip does its job, drops the lead, and therefore frees the line. (Assuming that it is set up and used correctly)
No rigs are 100% fail proof, any rig can cause problems which on occasion are out of out control as we as anglers can't control what goes on under the water .
You say in post 87 I'm confusing you , I'm explain in layman's terms, and now that wasn't what you were asking? Oh dear God give me strength.
Right, with a lead a naked system,whatever it may be, will generally be safer than one using a leader(assuming it is set up and used correctly )
If using a Heli with a leader, then you must have the lead fixed to make it as safe as possible(assuming it is set up and used correctly)
If using a Heli without a leader then it will be no more or less safe than other systems without using a leader. (assuming that it is set up and used correctly)
If using leadclips or running leads with a leader then that is dangerous and cannot be used safely
If using tubing with a Heli then the same rules apply as to using a leader with them
If using tubing on a clip then the lead being on will work as an anchor like it would with a Heli, and give the chance of the tubing to slide off of the mainline , if the lead happens to get snagged up before that happens then the clip does its job, drops the lead, and therefore frees the line. (Assuming that it is set up and used correctly)
No rigs are 100% fail proof, any rig can cause problems which on occasion are out of out control as we as anglers can't control what goes on under the water .
In reply to Post #92
So a rig can't be safe unless you drop the lead,no? Unless it's a naked Heli ?
So a rig can't be safe unless you drop the lead,no? Unless it's a naked Heli ?
In reply to Post #93
Thats an awful lot of words to tell me i was right.
A helicopter with a helisafe that dumps the lead is no more or no less safe than a leadclip rig that dumps the lead.
At least the helisafe rig leaves the fish trailing just the line and hooklink. The lead clip rig you use leaves them trailing the hooklink, line, and a lead, unless it gets "lucky" and gets snagged up.
For the record i wouldnt use either of those rigs. Leader or no leader.
Thats an awful lot of words to tell me i was right.
A helicopter with a helisafe that dumps the lead is no more or no less safe than a leadclip rig that dumps the lead.
At least the helisafe rig leaves the fish trailing just the line and hooklink. The lead clip rig you use leaves them trailing the hooklink, line, and a lead, unless it gets "lucky" and gets snagged up.
For the record i wouldnt use either of those rigs. Leader or no leader.
In reply to Post #95
No, because the helisafe rig has dropped the lead and lost its anchor. Your words have just proved yourself wrong !
No, because the helisafe rig has dropped the lead and lost its anchor. Your words have just proved yourself wrong !
Im not entirely sure a 20ft leader being towed around, is anymore dangerous than a 20 foot bit of mainline. In fact a heavy mono leader is surely less likely to get snagged and wrapped around stuff as its less supple.
I think the question raised is fair, and not sure it requires the frustrated responses.
Yes a heli set up is safest if used correctly. Think we all get that now.
What he is asking, is why the absolute hate for dropping the lead on a heli system. Yes its not ideal and defeats the object of the rig safety wise. But is you get cut off playing a fish, with either a leadclip set up, or a heli set up, bath having discharged the lead any different. Both rigs are now towing line. The line being towed is no more dangerous on either set up.
Yes if the lead had stayed on the heli would be safer. In the event of a crack off it would work the same as a normal heli set up.
I think the question raised is fair, and not sure it requires the frustrated responses.
Yes a heli set up is safest if used correctly. Think we all get that now.
What he is asking, is why the absolute hate for dropping the lead on a heli system. Yes its not ideal and defeats the object of the rig safety wise. But is you get cut off playing a fish, with either a leadclip set up, or a heli set up, bath having discharged the lead any different. Both rigs are now towing line. The line being towed is no more dangerous on either set up.
Yes if the lead had stayed on the heli would be safer. In the event of a crack off it would work the same as a normal heli set up.
In reply to Post #96
So whats the difference? The fish is still trailing line it now can't get rid of. I dont understand what you think the difference is?
So whats the difference? The fish is still trailing line it now can't get rid of. I dont understand what you think the difference is?
In reply to Post #97
Thank you. Finally someome who understands
Thank you. Finally someome who understands
In reply to Post #97
Surely the mainline is far safer than the leader? A bit of say 15lb mono has a far better chance of being broken or cut or simply not getting so snagged up as say for instance a 30lb armacord leader, or 45lb leadcore leader? Agreed either getting left attached to a fish isnt good whatsoever , but sometimes these things do happen and are out of our control(cut off on an unknown snag or similar) . Others it's down to stupidity (crack offs) which realistically shouldn't happen if the angler is using the correct kit for the job
The hate for lead dropping is 2 fold. 1 is when using a rig, surely you use it in the safest way possible. And on a Heli, that means keeping the lead. And 2 ,dumping leads unnecessarily is littering and a fad to sell more leads, regardless of what rig it was attached to.
Surely the mainline is far safer than the leader? A bit of say 15lb mono has a far better chance of being broken or cut or simply not getting so snagged up as say for instance a 30lb armacord leader, or 45lb leadcore leader? Agreed either getting left attached to a fish isnt good whatsoever , but sometimes these things do happen and are out of our control(cut off on an unknown snag or similar) . Others it's down to stupidity (crack offs) which realistically shouldn't happen if the angler is using the correct kit for the job
The hate for lead dropping is 2 fold. 1 is when using a rig, surely you use it in the safest way possible. And on a Heli, that means keeping the lead. And 2 ,dumping leads unnecessarily is littering and a fad to sell more leads, regardless of what rig it was attached to.
In reply to Post #98
You have just written "at least the helisafe only leaves the fish with the hooklink", which by your own words it doesnt as the anchor is gone . The only time that happens is in the event of a crack offs and then the fish pick up the bait, gets hooked, and moves away in the correct direction to stop the helisafe dropping the lead
I don't use Heli setups if I can help it, in my experience you lose too many fish on them to hookpulls , and hooks don't just fall out the same way they went in when under tension ,so tear out causing damage ,which is another safety aspect to consider . Hence using a clip setup . For me it's the safest all-round way considering the different ways in which damage can be caused
So leeroy, what rigs do you use then? If the leadclip setup which I and thousands of others use is so unsafe,I'd love to know.
You have just written "at least the helisafe only leaves the fish with the hooklink", which by your own words it doesnt as the anchor is gone . The only time that happens is in the event of a crack offs and then the fish pick up the bait, gets hooked, and moves away in the correct direction to stop the helisafe dropping the lead
I don't use Heli setups if I can help it, in my experience you lose too many fish on them to hookpulls , and hooks don't just fall out the same way they went in when under tension ,so tear out causing damage ,which is another safety aspect to consider . Hence using a clip setup . For me it's the safest all-round way considering the different ways in which damage can be caused
So leeroy, what rigs do you use then? If the leadclip setup which I and thousands of others use is so unsafe,I'd love to know.
In reply to Post #101
When did i say that?
When did i say that?
In reply to Post #102
Apologies,I did misread your post and didn't see the "and line" bit a couple of posts ago
Apologies,I did misread your post and didn't see the "and line" bit a couple of posts ago
In reply to Post #103
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
In reply to Post #104
Thanks for your help , think ill freeline
saying that thay bite us off 
Thanks for your help , think ill freeline
saying that thay bite us off