In reply to Post #45
Where did I say anything about dumping the lead? It's a daft practice and one which doesn't aid safety 99.9% of the time. Again if you actually read what I say properly you will see I've never once advocated dumping the lead which you seem to keep saying I do.
Where did I say anything about dumping the lead? It's a daft practice and one which doesn't aid safety 99.9% of the time. Again if you actually read what I say properly you will see I've never once advocated dumping the lead which you seem to keep saying I do.
In reply to Post #46
Read what i said.
Using a lead clip. I dont think using tubing with a lead clip is any safer than using a leader with a lead clip.
Yes dumping the lead on a heli is rediculous, amd i think heli safes should be banned. But ive never once been talking about that.
Read what i said.
Using a lead clip. I dont think using tubing with a lead clip is any safer than using a leader with a lead clip.
Yes dumping the lead on a heli is rediculous, amd i think heli safes should be banned. But ive never once been talking about that.
In reply to Post #47
Really? Are you on a wind up? You said cracked off ,lead dumped. You. Not me!
If you honestly can't see the difference between a piece of tubing which has a chance to slide off the mainline, and a leader which is permanently fixed to the mainline so therefore can't be removed from the equation ,then you really do need to have a word with yourself
Really? Are you on a wind up? You said cracked off ,lead dumped. You. Not me!
If you honestly can't see the difference between a piece of tubing which has a chance to slide off the mainline, and a leader which is permanently fixed to the mainline so therefore can't be removed from the equation ,then you really do need to have a word with yourself
In reply to Post #48
Again ill ask you to re read what i said.
"In reply to Post #44
So a cracked off lead clip, dumped the lead"
Yes. And if that tubing slides up the line and then gets jammed, its far more dangerous than a leader that is fixed.
You are acting holier than thou, thinking your rigs are safer than everyone elses and anyone who uses certain rigs are "stupid" but im not sure you seem to grasp exactly why things are safe or unsafe, other than becaise other people have said they are.
Again ill ask you to re read what i said.
"In reply to Post #44
So a cracked off lead clip, dumped the lead"
Yes. And if that tubing slides up the line and then gets jammed, its far more dangerous than a leader that is fixed.
You are acting holier than thou, thinking your rigs are safer than everyone elses and anyone who uses certain rigs are "stupid" but im not sure you seem to grasp exactly why things are safe or unsafe, other than becaise other people have said they are.
In reply to Post #49
Yes, you wrote DUMPED THE LEAD. I didnt. Dumping the lead is daft. It's littering. You can keep trying to justify your bad angling practices as much as you want, it won't ever make it right. I did read what you said. And it clearly says about dumped leads. Something you keep mentioning tubing being unsafe with a dumped lead. I agree, but still less so than a leader as it has a possibility of coming off, and a leader doesnt. What's so hard for you to grasp ?
Yes, you wrote DUMPED THE LEAD. I didnt. Dumping the lead is daft. It's littering. You can keep trying to justify your bad angling practices as much as you want, it won't ever make it right. I did read what you said. And it clearly says about dumped leads. Something you keep mentioning tubing being unsafe with a dumped lead. I agree, but still less so than a leader as it has a possibility of coming off, and a leader doesnt. What's so hard for you to grasp ?
In reply to Post #50
So you use a lead clip and jam the tail rubber on?
So you use a lead clip and jam the tail rubber on?
In reply to Post #51
No. Really can you not grasp anything? The great things about leadclips is that you can use them to eject the lead when it becomes jammed up, but not on a take. Again, it's really not that hard to understand, although you're trying your best to make it seem so
No. Really can you not grasp anything? The great things about leadclips is that you can use them to eject the lead when it becomes jammed up, but not on a take. Again, it's really not that hard to understand, although you're trying your best to make it seem so
In reply to Post #52
Yes. It ejects when it gets snagged up. Dumping the lead.but you dont dump the lead?
Yes. It ejects when it gets snagged up. Dumping the lead.but you dont dump the lead?
In reply to Post #53
When snagged up yes of course, but if the lead becomes snagged up and ejects then either the line is still good and you are still playing the fish, or the system has become stuck and the line has a chance to slide free from inside the tube and leave the fish free with just hooklink and mainline. Doesn't mean it happens every time, but there is a good chance it will. Unless your leaders can untie themselves then the fish can't get rid of them without ripping its own face to pieces tearing the hook out. Therefore, the clip system is far safer without a leader. Rocket science it is not
When snagged up yes of course, but if the lead becomes snagged up and ejects then either the line is still good and you are still playing the fish, or the system has become stuck and the line has a chance to slide free from inside the tube and leave the fish free with just hooklink and mainline. Doesn't mean it happens every time, but there is a good chance it will. Unless your leaders can untie themselves then the fish can't get rid of them without ripping its own face to pieces tearing the hook out. Therefore, the clip system is far safer without a leader. Rocket science it is not
In reply to Post #54
You're assuming everyone is using a leader when using a helisafe, which they dont. When everything is equal, the helisafe is no more dangerous than a conventional lead clip set up, which over the years has set the bar for fish safety.
You're assuming everyone is using a leader when using a helisafe, which they dont. When everything is equal, the helisafe is no more dangerous than a conventional lead clip set up, which over the years has set the bar for fish safety.
In reply to Post #55
No I'm not. I've never said that at all. Seriously are people incapable of reading simple English? When everything is equal, no they aren't all the same.and baring in mind the setups are completely different,how can they even be the same? They can't ! The major difference is the rig is attached to your leader by way of a knot or clip when using leaders ,therefore making it totally impossible for the leader to come free unless by some miracle your clip breaks or you get cut off right on the knot. I'm no statistician but I'd guess the likelihood of that happening would be about 1/10000000. By using a Heli your rig is only on the leader via the loop on the swivel, meaning that it is possible for the rig to slide up off of your leader, therefore leaving the fish with just the rig. Far from equal, wouldnt you say?
No I'm not. I've never said that at all. Seriously are people incapable of reading simple English? When everything is equal, no they aren't all the same.and baring in mind the setups are completely different,how can they even be the same? They can't ! The major difference is the rig is attached to your leader by way of a knot or clip when using leaders ,therefore making it totally impossible for the leader to come free unless by some miracle your clip breaks or you get cut off right on the knot. I'm no statistician but I'd guess the likelihood of that happening would be about 1/10000000. By using a Heli your rig is only on the leader via the loop on the swivel, meaning that it is possible for the rig to slide up off of your leader, therefore leaving the fish with just the rig. Far from equal, wouldnt you say?
In reply to Post #56
Again you're assuming people are using a leader when using a helisafe, then comparing against a lead clip set up of just mainline.
So if you use a helisafe, with or without a leader and the line breaks, the fish will trail a rig, with line and maybe a leader.
If you use a lead clip, with or without a leader and the line breaks, the fish will trail a rig, mainline and maybe a leader, but also it will trail a lead, to me that seems slightly more dangerous than the helisafe.
Again you're assuming people are using a leader when using a helisafe, then comparing against a lead clip set up of just mainline.
So if you use a helisafe, with or without a leader and the line breaks, the fish will trail a rig, with line and maybe a leader.
If you use a lead clip, with or without a leader and the line breaks, the fish will trail a rig, mainline and maybe a leader, but also it will trail a lead, to me that seems slightly more dangerous than the helisafe.
In reply to Post #57
No, I just compared the closest possible comparison you can make using the 2 setups. Stop telling me what I'm assuming when I'm clearly not. You also missed the bit about the lead on the clip becoming snagged up on something and pulling free as it's supposed to. No more trailing the lead around. I'll put it in layman's terms for you shall I? With no leader then use the setup which you like,be it leadclip, running or Heli. There isn't a huge difference in the safety of them. When using a leader the use a Heli and keep the lead, as without it the leader has a very minimal (near on impossible) chance to come away from the rig itself. And leaving a fish towing round an abrasion resistant,very strong, very heavy leader is a death sentence. End of.
No, I just compared the closest possible comparison you can make using the 2 setups. Stop telling me what I'm assuming when I'm clearly not. You also missed the bit about the lead on the clip becoming snagged up on something and pulling free as it's supposed to. No more trailing the lead around. I'll put it in layman's terms for you shall I? With no leader then use the setup which you like,be it leadclip, running or Heli. There isn't a huge difference in the safety of them. When using a leader the use a Heli and keep the lead, as without it the leader has a very minimal (near on impossible) chance to come away from the rig itself. And leaving a fish towing round an abrasion resistant,very strong, very heavy leader is a death sentence. End of.
In reply to Post #58
You're the one writing about leaders, I'm just comparing apples with apples.
You also missed the bit where the line broke on a soulless bowl with no snags and the lead clip unable to get snagged on something and becoming useless. Also do you not think it's a little bit odd you have to get something snagged to be able to make it safe?? It is odd, let's be honest.
Again, you are completely miss that people use leaders with a lead clip set up, regardless if you lose the lead if the line snaps, the fish will still carry around the leader, exactly the same as the death set up of a helisafe. Obviously another point to add if it's a crack off then the helisafe acts normally and the rig slides off.
I'm not anti lead clip, 90 percent of my angling is done using them, but for me in my opinion the helisafe is no more dangerous than a lesd clip, and that'll do for me
You're the one writing about leaders, I'm just comparing apples with apples.
You also missed the bit where the line broke on a soulless bowl with no snags and the lead clip unable to get snagged on something and becoming useless. Also do you not think it's a little bit odd you have to get something snagged to be able to make it safe?? It is odd, let's be honest.
Again, you are completely miss that people use leaders with a lead clip set up, regardless if you lose the lead if the line snaps, the fish will still carry around the leader, exactly the same as the death set up of a helisafe. Obviously another point to add if it's a crack off then the helisafe acts normally and the rig slides off.
I'm not anti lead clip, 90 percent of my angling is done using them, but for me in my opinion the helisafe is no more dangerous than a lesd clip, and that'll do for me
In reply to Post #59
I'm not missing any point, I'm saying they may be using clips with leaders but they are being irresponsible. I too use clips for most of my angling, so I'm far from anti clip. Everything has its place and should be thought about with a lot more care than many seem to take.
And no I don't think that the lead becoming snagged before it comes off as being odd, and if it's in a snag less bowl then snagging up won't happen and therefore your point becomes irrelevant
I'm not missing any point, I'm saying they may be using clips with leaders but they are being irresponsible. I too use clips for most of my angling, so I'm far from anti clip. Everything has its place and should be thought about with a lot more care than many seem to take.
And no I don't think that the lead becoming snagged before it comes off as being odd, and if it's in a snag less bowl then snagging up won't happen and therefore your point becomes irrelevant