In reply to Post #29
Sorry but that is dangerous , advocating a lead clip that comes free of the swivel is wrong. It's the swivel being fixed to the clip which makes the clip work as it should(as long as the tail rubber isn't jammed on too tight). Allowing the clip to run along the line can cause potential to cause a problem with something getting jammed behind the clip and rubber set up, therefore not allowing the rubber and in turn the lead to eject. Other than that your post is good, and leaders should never be used with anything but a Heli setup , and then only if the lead stays attached.
Sorry but that is dangerous , advocating a lead clip that comes free of the swivel is wrong. It's the swivel being fixed to the clip which makes the clip work as it should(as long as the tail rubber isn't jammed on too tight). Allowing the clip to run along the line can cause potential to cause a problem with something getting jammed behind the clip and rubber set up, therefore not allowing the rubber and in turn the lead to eject. Other than that your post is good, and leaders should never be used with anything but a Heli setup , and then only if the lead stays attached.
In reply to Post #46
Thanks for the compliment but have to disagree with the "dangerous" comment.
For me it's all about risk levels and risk assessment for fish welfare. If the swivel will pull out it allows the clip to act in a semi fixed manner and the fish swim away from the tubing, tail rubber, clip and lead just trailing mono, swivel and hooklink. If the lead is set to eject on the take the fish will be trailing line, tubing, tail rubber, clip, swivel and hooklink plus the lead if its not set up correctly. I feel my way is the lesser of two evils. I really don't like line clips and haven't used them for years.
Thanks for the compliment but have to disagree with the "dangerous" comment.
For me it's all about risk levels and risk assessment for fish welfare. If the swivel will pull out it allows the clip to act in a semi fixed manner and the fish swim away from the tubing, tail rubber, clip and lead just trailing mono, swivel and hooklink. If the lead is set to eject on the take the fish will be trailing line, tubing, tail rubber, clip, swivel and hooklink plus the lead if its not set up correctly. I feel my way is the lesser of two evils. I really don't like line clips and haven't used them for years.
In reply to Post #47
But that is relying on nothing happening to prevent the mainline sliding out of the clip and tail rubber section, which then means the fish can still have it all including the lead attached,and it will be impossible to come off. If the clip is fixed then the lead will come off if it gets caught up. So it's a choice between having the whole lot still attached to a fish, or just the line with clip and no lead. Only one winner there for me. I used to think in a similar way to your post but after reading comments on here and thinking about it I've realised running or semi fixed clips are dangerous , far more so than fixed ones when used correctly. And Tbh when Ive fished Heli setups I've had a rediculous amount of hook pulls compared to using clips and that for me is enough to not use Heli setups any more, because not only due to losing the fish itself, but also because a hook pull is damage to the fish which need not have happened. Hooks don't just fall out the way they go in, poor hookholds cause the vast majority of mouth damage imo, followed by barbless hooks, so using the best lead arrangement to give the best hookhold possible it minimises the chance of mouth damage
But that is relying on nothing happening to prevent the mainline sliding out of the clip and tail rubber section, which then means the fish can still have it all including the lead attached,and it will be impossible to come off. If the clip is fixed then the lead will come off if it gets caught up. So it's a choice between having the whole lot still attached to a fish, or just the line with clip and no lead. Only one winner there for me. I used to think in a similar way to your post but after reading comments on here and thinking about it I've realised running or semi fixed clips are dangerous , far more so than fixed ones when used correctly. And Tbh when Ive fished Heli setups I've had a rediculous amount of hook pulls compared to using clips and that for me is enough to not use Heli setups any more, because not only due to losing the fish itself, but also because a hook pull is damage to the fish which need not have happened. Hooks don't just fall out the way they go in, poor hookholds cause the vast majority of mouth damage imo, followed by barbless hooks, so using the best lead arrangement to give the best hookhold possible it minimises the chance of mouth damage
In reply to Post #45
Glad you agree. Do the arithmetic on somewhere like Rainbow where two leads are often used and 8/10 oz leads are not unusual. Even my local commercial water where there is no sensible reason to drop the lead lots of people do and 10 fish a day is not unusual. Really concerning for the future and I don't just mean angling.
Glad you agree. Do the arithmetic on somewhere like Rainbow where two leads are often used and 8/10 oz leads are not unusual. Even my local commercial water where there is no sensible reason to drop the lead lots of people do and 10 fish a day is not unusual. Really concerning for the future and I don't just mean angling.
In reply to Post #48
We are never going to agree on clips, helis or barbless hooks but I think as long as we both have fish welfare as priority that's the best we can hope for. Tight lines and fish safe.
We are never going to agree on clips, helis or barbless hooks but I think as long as we both have fish welfare as priority that's the best we can hope for. Tight lines and fish safe.
In reply to Post #44
OK. No I am not saying other people should be doing this that or the other. I am saying that I try to think about what I'm doing and learn from observation and experience. I've reached a point where the welfare of the fish and the environment are my priority and actually catching comes third.
Disagree, you are forcing you opinion that lead clips are not safe and what you are doing is. The only man in the world to reach a point where fish care is paramount. You do know you put a hook in their mouth and drag them to the bank don't you, or are you going to become a watcher of big old carp next?
I personally don't like line clips and stopped using them years ago. Seen too many negative things involving them..
Similar to me with helicopters
OK. think properly constructed helicopter and running rigs are the safest systems, provided you DO NOT drop the lead..
If we are talking mainline parting, I would say a run rig on mono
I DO think if you are intentionally dropping the lead fisheries should make it compulsory to use non toxic lead replacement weights..
Similar thoughts to me
Lead is something I feel very strongly about and dropping large amounts of lead into aquatic environments is dangerous, shortsighted and the long term consequences are irreversible. Insanity. Even the oil companies eventually banned its use.
Definitely agree
OK. No I am not saying other people should be doing this that or the other. I am saying that I try to think about what I'm doing and learn from observation and experience. I've reached a point where the welfare of the fish and the environment are my priority and actually catching comes third.
Disagree, you are forcing you opinion that lead clips are not safe and what you are doing is. The only man in the world to reach a point where fish care is paramount. You do know you put a hook in their mouth and drag them to the bank don't you, or are you going to become a watcher of big old carp next?
I personally don't like line clips and stopped using them years ago. Seen too many negative things involving them..
Similar to me with helicopters
OK. think properly constructed helicopter and running rigs are the safest systems, provided you DO NOT drop the lead..
If we are talking mainline parting, I would say a run rig on mono
I DO think if you are intentionally dropping the lead fisheries should make it compulsory to use non toxic lead replacement weights..
Similar thoughts to me
Lead is something I feel very strongly about and dropping large amounts of lead into aquatic environments is dangerous, shortsighted and the long term consequences are irreversible. Insanity. Even the oil companies eventually banned its use.
Definitely agree
In reply to Post #51
Already am a watcher of big old carp and have been since I was 5.
I am perfectly happy to use hooks to catch fish. I want to feel I am doing it as safely as possible
I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, I am stating my opinion on an open public forum and you or anyone else are free to agree or disagree. I am sure the sale of line clips is unlikely to crash because I don't like them. I have tried to explain clearly my thoughts on risks to fish welfare with regard to different rigs and set ups.My thoughts, my experiences, my values, feel free to differ.
I am not going to apologise for promoting fish and environmental welfare above catching. There is an awful lot of bad practice going on out there. There are large sections in angling that have lost, or are losing touch with the traditional sporting ethic and respect for the fish.
Glad you agree on the lead front.
Already am a watcher of big old carp and have been since I was 5.
I am perfectly happy to use hooks to catch fish. I want to feel I am doing it as safely as possible
I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, I am stating my opinion on an open public forum and you or anyone else are free to agree or disagree. I am sure the sale of line clips is unlikely to crash because I don't like them. I have tried to explain clearly my thoughts on risks to fish welfare with regard to different rigs and set ups.My thoughts, my experiences, my values, feel free to differ.
I am not going to apologise for promoting fish and environmental welfare above catching. There is an awful lot of bad practice going on out there. There are large sections in angling that have lost, or are losing touch with the traditional sporting ethic and respect for the fish.
Glad you agree on the lead front.