In reply to Post #54
You obviously don't understand all mechanics of all lead set-ups as with Your scenario with the line curling up at the end I have been trying to explain, continuously, but you aren't understanding, or are ignoring, or you don't get what we have been saying.
With a large bore run ring, it will pass over the curled up end of line, even some rubbish if it is less than the bore of the run ring. In this case the lead not being ejected will help it go over it as the lead is dragged along the lakebed.
In the leadclip scenario, the lead is unable to be ejected, the tail rubber cannot be pulled free, because the lead clip is not fixed in place to the hooklink swivel. It requires the lead clip to be fixed to the hooklink mainline join to eject the lead. Once it is free running the tail rubber will not pull free of the lead clip.
The bore of the lead clip, that is the hole through the middle, is so small that it cannot pass over even the smallest piece of rubbish trapped in or on the line.
A lead clip should not really have any place in fishing, especially not being used as running rigs.
Now I am going to explain something to you, just because someone apparently insulted you, you do not need to retaliate, as soon as you did that you lost the debate, and with further argumentative posts all credibility about what you say.
The disagreement with the editor is you trying to muddy the waters further, it really doesn't matter what rigs I was concerned with. What matters is my point that I no longer read carp magazines after you accused Boycie and myself of 'sticking to reading carp mags or forums'.
You obviously don't understand all mechanics of all lead set-ups as with Your scenario with the line curling up at the end I have been trying to explain, continuously, but you aren't understanding, or are ignoring, or you don't get what we have been saying.
With a large bore run ring, it will pass over the curled up end of line, even some rubbish if it is less than the bore of the run ring. In this case the lead not being ejected will help it go over it as the lead is dragged along the lakebed.
In the leadclip scenario, the lead is unable to be ejected, the tail rubber cannot be pulled free, because the lead clip is not fixed in place to the hooklink swivel. It requires the lead clip to be fixed to the hooklink mainline join to eject the lead. Once it is free running the tail rubber will not pull free of the lead clip.
The bore of the lead clip, that is the hole through the middle, is so small that it cannot pass over even the smallest piece of rubbish trapped in or on the line.
A lead clip should not really have any place in fishing, especially not being used as running rigs.
Now I am going to explain something to you, just because someone apparently insulted you, you do not need to retaliate, as soon as you did that you lost the debate, and with further argumentative posts all credibility about what you say.
The disagreement with the editor is you trying to muddy the waters further, it really doesn't matter what rigs I was concerned with. What matters is my point that I no longer read carp magazines after you accused Boycie and myself of 'sticking to reading carp mags or forums'.
In reply to Post #56
Lead clips are totally safe if used correctly, but they need to be fixed for this to work. The Korda ones which click in are no good, the swivel pulls out of the clip too easily. You need a lead clip with a peg, or tied, for them to work safely. Lead clips are great, but should never be fished running. This is a bit silly really doing this as plenty have already said. The top opening on your tail rubber is very small, and silicone. It will fold back on itself easily in the event of pressure from that way. It's not going over anything in the event of a break off on your mainline. Death rig running, very safe fixed.
Lead clips are totally safe if used correctly, but they need to be fixed for this to work. The Korda ones which click in are no good, the swivel pulls out of the clip too easily. You need a lead clip with a peg, or tied, for them to work safely. Lead clips are great, but should never be fished running. This is a bit silly really doing this as plenty have already said. The top opening on your tail rubber is very small, and silicone. It will fold back on itself easily in the event of pressure from that way. It's not going over anything in the event of a break off on your mainline. Death rig running, very safe fixed.
In reply to Post #56
You are NOT reading my post , just highlighting certain parts of it to suit a running rig .
You are the one being ignorent here as I said .... what if the curled up line gathers crud so the running lead CANNOT run off the blocked line ? That's what I said and I can't put it any simpler to understand.
You say that it a running lead clip cannot discharge the lead once it has pulled from the swivel , wrong answer , try it on the floor , if the mainline gets stuck as you say then the first bit of movement once the lead picks up debris ( which it obviously will ) will discharge it from the clip if it is set up correctly as it should be .
Run rings aren't as safe as you make out , some of the lakes I fish I've brought back balls of weed I can't even lift , how the hell do you think a run ring is going to slide through that ball of weed is beyond me !
If a fish is towing a snapped off rig because the line has curled up and the lead CANNOT come off because the snapped line has debris or weed on it , a lead will try and pull through the said weed , correct ?
At least it has a chance of discharging , not that it would make much difference but I'm making my point clear .
You really need to read between full posts and not pick out certain bits just to prove your case , you've proved just that by saying I accused Boysie and you of sticking to reading carp mags and forums , go back and see the post was aimed at Daffy Duck , yet again you've just not read it properly I rest my case
You are NOT reading my post , just highlighting certain parts of it to suit a running rig .
You are the one being ignorent here as I said .... what if the curled up line gathers crud so the running lead CANNOT run off the blocked line ? That's what I said and I can't put it any simpler to understand.
You say that it a running lead clip cannot discharge the lead once it has pulled from the swivel , wrong answer , try it on the floor , if the mainline gets stuck as you say then the first bit of movement once the lead picks up debris ( which it obviously will ) will discharge it from the clip if it is set up correctly as it should be .
Run rings aren't as safe as you make out , some of the lakes I fish I've brought back balls of weed I can't even lift , how the hell do you think a run ring is going to slide through that ball of weed is beyond me !
If a fish is towing a snapped off rig because the line has curled up and the lead CANNOT come off because the snapped line has debris or weed on it , a lead will try and pull through the said weed , correct ?
At least it has a chance of discharging , not that it would make much difference but I'm making my point clear .
You really need to read between full posts and not pick out certain bits just to prove your case , you've proved just that by saying I accused Boysie and you of sticking to reading carp mags and forums , go back and see the post was aimed at Daffy Duck , yet again you've just not read it properly I rest my case
In reply to Post #58
what if the curled up line gathers crud so the running lead CANNOT run off the blocked line ?
As has already been said, at least twice, its about percentages and making what we do as safe as we can. There will of course be scenarios where a running lead can't pass over debris but there will be far more scenarios where a running leadclip can't. It takes very, very little to prevent a running leadclip from travelling back up the line.
What's the bore of a leadclip? 1mm maybe? Now compare that to the bore of a run ring. Surely you understand the basic principle that the larger circle will pass over an object/s larger than a smaller circle can?
I'll give you two examples. First one - Think about the marker float kits you can buy, or how you'd set up your own marker float. The kits come with large bore rings, from which your lead hangs down. The large bore ring is intended to reduce the amount of times that weed prevents the float from rising to the surface. The smaller the ring the less weed required to jam it up, yes?
Secondly a seasonal one too just to lighten the mood... I took my young son to a fireworks display last night. There were loads of traditional fair stalls there. One was the classic ring toss. You have to throw a plastic ring over a prize to win however the ring also has to pass over the square base on which the prize sits. Not all of the bases were the same size. The bigger prizes (PS4 for example) sat on a very large base, ony marginally smaller than the rings. The smaller prizes (bag of sweets) sat on a smaller base. Now, to increase your chances of winning, if you had the choice, would you choose a larger or smaller ring?
what if the curled up line gathers crud so the running lead CANNOT run off the blocked line ?
As has already been said, at least twice, its about percentages and making what we do as safe as we can. There will of course be scenarios where a running lead can't pass over debris but there will be far more scenarios where a running leadclip can't. It takes very, very little to prevent a running leadclip from travelling back up the line.
What's the bore of a leadclip? 1mm maybe? Now compare that to the bore of a run ring. Surely you understand the basic principle that the larger circle will pass over an object/s larger than a smaller circle can?
I'll give you two examples. First one - Think about the marker float kits you can buy, or how you'd set up your own marker float. The kits come with large bore rings, from which your lead hangs down. The large bore ring is intended to reduce the amount of times that weed prevents the float from rising to the surface. The smaller the ring the less weed required to jam it up, yes?
Secondly a seasonal one too just to lighten the mood... I took my young son to a fireworks display last night. There were loads of traditional fair stalls there. One was the classic ring toss. You have to throw a plastic ring over a prize to win however the ring also has to pass over the square base on which the prize sits. Not all of the bases were the same size. The bigger prizes (PS4 for example) sat on a very large base, ony marginally smaller than the rings. The smaller prizes (bag of sweets) sat on a smaller base. Now, to increase your chances of winning, if you had the choice, would you choose a larger or smaller ring?
Accepting that there are people who are prepared to fish an inherently dangerous way because they've seen an increase in their catch rate doing it, is there a safe way to set up a semi fixed yet running system that creates the 'shocker' aspect? Fox do a tadpole bead from what I recall. I've not used them myself but remember seeing them used with a large bore run ring that pushes over the tadpole bead but becomes free quite easily. I'm not sure if they come with the ability to eject the lead but I'm sure it would be easy to do using a rotten bottom.
In reply to Post #58
The point nobody has made is that the tail rubber has to pull away for the leadclip in order to dump the lead. If the leadclip is travelling at speed down the line and hits debris it may push it on further and/or impair its ability to separate from the clip.
A running leadclip in a weed free lake is absolutely fine to use, not sure why you'd want to though. But to use a running rig of any kind in a weedy lake is bad angling, and to use one that isn't even designed or suitable for the job is worthy of a smacked bottom
The point nobody has made is that the tail rubber has to pull away for the leadclip in order to dump the lead. If the leadclip is travelling at speed down the line and hits debris it may push it on further and/or impair its ability to separate from the clip.
A running leadclip in a weed free lake is absolutely fine to use, not sure why you'd want to though. But to use a running rig of any kind in a weedy lake is bad angling, and to use one that isn't even designed or suitable for the job is worthy of a smacked bottom
In reply to Post #62
Oooo matron, I'm digging out my leadclips as I type this.
Oooo matron, I'm digging out my leadclips as I type this.
I'd already covered the situation in which this rig is acceptable in post 30 , I'll post it up again as you obviously haven't read the whole thread again
It's not my rig , it's a rig that's been round a long long time , I don't use it in my fishing as I mostly fish big snaggy waters abroad , I don't see the problem fishing it in a lake with no snags
It's not my rig , it's a rig that's been round a long long time , I don't use it in my fishing as I mostly fish big snaggy waters abroad , I don't see the problem fishing it in a lake with no snags
In reply to Post #58
As Boycie has explained but you have chosen to ignore is that if the ball of crud is so big that the run ring can't slide off the line then there is a small piece of plastic that is a loop on the run ring holding the link clip and lead that can break.
On a lead clip the tail rubber can't be ejected, the lead clip can't release over the ball of crud.
In either case you have a large ball of rubbish being towed around, which actually the lead clip is contributing to as they also catch weed, so therefore you fish the safest option, the running lead on a run ring. It gives more chance for everything to be ejected.
We have read your posts, we explained you are reducing the risks as much as possible, you have missed that. You are now fixated on a blooming great ball of crud, which will not allow a lead clip or run ring to come off.
However, the larger bore of the run ring which is around 5mm is more likely to come off than a leadclip which has an inner bore of around 1.5mm. Next thing, it takes less crud on the line for a leadclip to be unable to be ejected. At this point, it is likely that the tail rubber is now jammed further onto the leadclip, as the crud has prevented the tail rubber releasing and making it more likely it can't be ejected. A tail rubber needs a particular angle of pressure to be released, it can't release if the lead clip can move, hence my comments that a lead clip must be fixed.
Nope, read through the whole first thread again, and other than a few sarcastic comments, none of which were aimed at you, the first person to get insulting was you. Then you try to have a go at you claim was Daffy duck, incorrect, the post you quoted was Josh_shepz, and the retort was "That's it mate you stick to the mags and the videos/ forums ", my point in return was that in magazines there have been dangerous rigs published, dangerous set-ups advocated, by high profile anglers, like using a lead clip for a running set-up. It has been recommended by a high profile angler.
On forums like this, there have been anglers who have tried to explain the wrongs of using a leadclip as a running lead.
As Boycie has explained but you have chosen to ignore is that if the ball of crud is so big that the run ring can't slide off the line then there is a small piece of plastic that is a loop on the run ring holding the link clip and lead that can break.
On a lead clip the tail rubber can't be ejected, the lead clip can't release over the ball of crud.
In either case you have a large ball of rubbish being towed around, which actually the lead clip is contributing to as they also catch weed, so therefore you fish the safest option, the running lead on a run ring. It gives more chance for everything to be ejected.
We have read your posts, we explained you are reducing the risks as much as possible, you have missed that. You are now fixated on a blooming great ball of crud, which will not allow a lead clip or run ring to come off.
However, the larger bore of the run ring which is around 5mm is more likely to come off than a leadclip which has an inner bore of around 1.5mm. Next thing, it takes less crud on the line for a leadclip to be unable to be ejected. At this point, it is likely that the tail rubber is now jammed further onto the leadclip, as the crud has prevented the tail rubber releasing and making it more likely it can't be ejected. A tail rubber needs a particular angle of pressure to be released, it can't release if the lead clip can move, hence my comments that a lead clip must be fixed.
Nope, read through the whole first thread again, and other than a few sarcastic comments, none of which were aimed at you, the first person to get insulting was you. Then you try to have a go at you claim was Daffy duck, incorrect, the post you quoted was Josh_shepz, and the retort was "That's it mate you stick to the mags and the videos/ forums ", my point in return was that in magazines there have been dangerous rigs published, dangerous set-ups advocated, by high profile anglers, like using a lead clip for a running set-up. It has been recommended by a high profile angler.
On forums like this, there have been anglers who have tried to explain the wrongs of using a leadclip as a running lead.
In reply to Post #64
'Your' in the context of this thread simply means the setup that you mentioned, it doesn't imply that you invented it or use it. You could refer to 'my' tadpole beads as I mentioned them below but I'd understand that you didn't mean that I manufactured them. Apologies, I assumed you would know that, but then you know what they say about assuming.
'Your' in the context of this thread simply means the setup that you mentioned, it doesn't imply that you invented it or use it. You could refer to 'my' tadpole beads as I mentioned them below but I'd understand that you didn't mean that I manufactured them. Apologies, I assumed you would know that, but then you know what they say about assuming.
In reply to Post #65
You've forgot to mention that bit about the C clip which in fact Josh mentioned and is indeed a superb idea albeit not suitable for distance casting with heavier leads because the lead could come free on the cast .
You're assuming that most anglers use this C clip when in actual fact I bet most don't , it's the assuming bit that Boycie has always pointed out
that is actually quite valid .
Whatever way its dressed up it's a semi fixed lead set up not a true running rig which is only safe in weedless and snagless waters , I wouldn't and have never condoned the use of this rig in anything but this kind of water , but I know it's place in fishing and wouldn't have a problem with someone using it in this manner on one of my waters if I owned a lake .
I'm actually fishing now and tried the ball of line trick with twigs with a running clip and it behaved just as I expected it to , the lead did discharge after it came up against a small twig on the floor , I've tried it in the past and got same results , I always test my rigs before they go in the water , how many anglers do that ? ,
It's all about getting the tail rubber perfect on the lead clip
You've forgot to mention that bit about the C clip which in fact Josh mentioned and is indeed a superb idea albeit not suitable for distance casting with heavier leads because the lead could come free on the cast .
You're assuming that most anglers use this C clip when in actual fact I bet most don't , it's the assuming bit that Boycie has always pointed out
that is actually quite valid . Whatever way its dressed up it's a semi fixed lead set up not a true running rig which is only safe in weedless and snagless waters , I wouldn't and have never condoned the use of this rig in anything but this kind of water , but I know it's place in fishing and wouldn't have a problem with someone using it in this manner on one of my waters if I owned a lake .
I'm actually fishing now and tried the ball of line trick with twigs with a running clip and it behaved just as I expected it to , the lead did discharge after it came up against a small twig on the floor , I've tried it in the past and got same results , I always test my rigs before they go in the water , how many anglers do that ? ,
It's all about getting the tail rubber perfect on the lead clip
In reply to Post #65
You're not getting that a ball of weed or tangled line ain't going to go through a 5mm hole or 1.5mm hole , therefore as I have stated all along , it has its place but not on weedy and snaggy waters , do you now understand ?
You're not getting that a ball of weed or tangled line ain't going to go through a 5mm hole or 1.5mm hole , therefore as I have stated all along , it has its place but not on weedy and snaggy waters , do you now understand ?
In reply to Post #68
I think the confusion stems from when you said this:
Even if the clip area gathers some weed the lead will discharge leaving the line to pull through
That suggests that your advocate using a running leadclip in weedy circumstances. You've thought about the weed and come to a conclusion about what would happen.. I appreciate you've back tracked a fair bit and added certain caveats in order to justify your stance but that is what you said originally.
I think the confusion stems from when you said this:
Even if the clip area gathers some weed the lead will discharge leaving the line to pull through
That suggests that your advocate using a running leadclip in weedy circumstances. You've thought about the weed and come to a conclusion about what would happen.. I appreciate you've back tracked a fair bit and added certain caveats in order to justify your stance but that is what you said originally.
In reply to Post #69
As for advocating the use of a running lead clip in weedy circumstances,I think you'll find I mentioned using this rig in weedless and snagless lakes in post 30 , you've got you're wires crossed again as I've always said this rig isn't suitable for weedy/snaggy situations , that was my second of several posts in this thread so it's hardly back tracking is it ?
The only one who is back tracking is you by digging up the locked thread to try and justify your point . The only time weed was mentioned was in your post where you said the line can quickly attract weed , I gave you enough respect in that I already thought being a long term member you would know this rig isn't suitable for weed/snags , pity I have to post it up for you but hey ho , I shouldn't have ‘assumed' and given you credit
As for advocating the use of a running lead clip in weedy circumstances,I think you'll find I mentioned using this rig in weedless and snagless lakes in post 30 , you've got you're wires crossed again as I've always said this rig isn't suitable for weedy/snaggy situations , that was my second of several posts in this thread so it's hardly back tracking is it ?
The only one who is back tracking is you by digging up the locked thread to try and justify your point . The only time weed was mentioned was in your post where you said the line can quickly attract weed , I gave you enough respect in that I already thought being a long term member you would know this rig isn't suitable for weed/snags , pity I have to post it up for you but hey ho , I shouldn't have ‘assumed' and given you credit
In reply to Post #70
I actually think a fixed lead clip is even worse in weedy scenarios.
I actually think a fixed lead clip is even worse in weedy scenarios.