In reply to Post #14
I do agree on dropping leads
But, there are some lakes that insist on it 🫣🤷"♂ï¸ðŸ¤·"♂ï¸
Can't remember the last time I lost a lead….
I do agree on dropping leads
But, there are some lakes that insist on it 🫣🤷"♂ï¸ðŸ¤·"♂ï¸
Can't remember the last time I lost a lead….
In reply to Post #16
My lake insists on dropping all leads over 1.5oz - primarily so carp aren't played/landed with heavier leads banging around and further opening up hook wounds in the mouth on short hooklinks. Whether this is actually realistic I'm ambivalent about - these are the rules.
Other than the lakebed eco issues and the cost to my pocket, I actually don't mind this as dropping leads (especially with heavier leads) is def an advantage IMO as it gets the fish up in the water quickly / allows quicker initial control on the fish once hooked. On this basis I use either MCF Dumpers (no tail rubber but sometimes secured with PVA string) for lead clips set ups / Fox Inline Drop off Kits for Inline set ups (my pref most of the time) or the Fox Run Rig Drop off Kit for running rig set ups (used in conjunction with their PVA plugs to keep the lead in place on the cast / whilst plummeting down in deeper water)
Don't tend to use them as a BBoat user but Helis (non-drop off style) are surely supposed to be the safest in the event of a mainline break? Fish swims against weight of lead / flicks off top bead from tubing/leader and is simply left with the hooklink and a ring swivel only (in theory anyway). Chod even safer as length of hooklink is only the chod itself?
With all other set ups (and on the proviso the lead has been dropped from the clip in all instances) the fish could still be swimming around with the hooklink & clip with swivel PLUS Xcms leader / tubing / mainline depending on where the line has broken in the first place?
I suppose a free running running rig is marginally safer as the lead is less likely to get jammed up . . .a standard clip (non MCF) and standard Inline drop with a tail rubber can be pushed on tight . . .maybe this is his point?
My lake insists on dropping all leads over 1.5oz - primarily so carp aren't played/landed with heavier leads banging around and further opening up hook wounds in the mouth on short hooklinks. Whether this is actually realistic I'm ambivalent about - these are the rules.
Other than the lakebed eco issues and the cost to my pocket, I actually don't mind this as dropping leads (especially with heavier leads) is def an advantage IMO as it gets the fish up in the water quickly / allows quicker initial control on the fish once hooked. On this basis I use either MCF Dumpers (no tail rubber but sometimes secured with PVA string) for lead clips set ups / Fox Inline Drop off Kits for Inline set ups (my pref most of the time) or the Fox Run Rig Drop off Kit for running rig set ups (used in conjunction with their PVA plugs to keep the lead in place on the cast / whilst plummeting down in deeper water)
Don't tend to use them as a BBoat user but Helis (non-drop off style) are surely supposed to be the safest in the event of a mainline break? Fish swims against weight of lead / flicks off top bead from tubing/leader and is simply left with the hooklink and a ring swivel only (in theory anyway). Chod even safer as length of hooklink is only the chod itself?
With all other set ups (and on the proviso the lead has been dropped from the clip in all instances) the fish could still be swimming around with the hooklink & clip with swivel PLUS Xcms leader / tubing / mainline depending on where the line has broken in the first place?
I suppose a free running running rig is marginally safer as the lead is less likely to get jammed up . . .a standard clip (non MCF) and standard Inline drop with a tail rubber can be pushed on tight . . .maybe this is his point?
In reply to Post #15
I'll take your points onboard Vossy, and try to answer them from my point of view.
I only fish with a maximum lead size of 3.5oz, so can't really comment on the very heavy leads you quote. Clips can be set to discharge the lead under very light pressure, alot less than it takes to pull a size 8 swivel out of the clip barrel or the sleeve of an inline lead, so if a small fish cannot discharge a lead from a clip it won't be able to pull the swivel out of the clip barrel, so it still becomes a fixed rig from the point of view of a small fish.
I fish a mixed coarse fish syndicate with a large head of tench, bream and roach. We don't have any problem spotting the bites from 6oz roach etc, so they must be moving the lead. In fact the last fish I caught there was a 4oz perch on a worm rig, the bite was clear. The tench and bream are no problem, the tench often dropping the lead on the take.
Ged I get that but, the original idea of this thread is having the lead fixed, so that the fish can swim normally. No small fish is going to swim normally with a 5oz lead attached to it.
I fished Le Queroy in France back in 2017 and it should've had a silver netting the year before, the place was full of 6-8oz Roach. I was using 2.5oz bare method feeders which when method added must have been near 5oz, maybe more as I use a dense paste. I'd turned the Delks vibrate off as there were so many of the buggers, but kept noticing minor jiggles of the indicator head. When retrieving I nearly always had a lip or foul hooked Roach on the end irrespective of bait size. Every now and then I'd get a bleep, I assume when a Roach really panicked as a Cat or big Carp was near but that was it.
I'm very aware of issues with none releasing swivels, not in clips as I don't use them very often, but certainly in my Avid method feeders. I now use them bare, no tubing, no tail rubber, often with the barrel unlocked and often with a bead in front of the swivel, all in the hope I'm minimising the line/swivel getting stuck....the big BUT
Anyone who's fished with silk weed will tell you no matter the bore of the item you're using your line will get jammed at some point even when using a large bore run ring, especially if fishing at distance, in fact you may have to clear your tip ring to boot. If this weed gets around the lead swivel combo the tail rubber is going nowhere and in the case of a fixed lead neither is it.
I've also seen no mention of the damage a hook may inflict if attached to the lead fixed style or it impeding the hooks release as it's always under pressure.
I'm just thinking aloud, as are we all, but there is no proof to support that fishing the lead fixed isn't dangerous to other fish and fowl, surely as responsible anglers we should err with caution until there is? How hard would it be to tank or water test fixed weights to prove one way or the other how they affect them before declaring them safe as they save bigger Carp.
There's not much more I can add to the subject, I come from a scientific back ground and I'm not convinced, it's that simple, for those who agree with the idea I'll have to politely disagree with you, it's all good
I'll take your points onboard Vossy, and try to answer them from my point of view.
I only fish with a maximum lead size of 3.5oz, so can't really comment on the very heavy leads you quote. Clips can be set to discharge the lead under very light pressure, alot less than it takes to pull a size 8 swivel out of the clip barrel or the sleeve of an inline lead, so if a small fish cannot discharge a lead from a clip it won't be able to pull the swivel out of the clip barrel, so it still becomes a fixed rig from the point of view of a small fish.
I fish a mixed coarse fish syndicate with a large head of tench, bream and roach. We don't have any problem spotting the bites from 6oz roach etc, so they must be moving the lead. In fact the last fish I caught there was a 4oz perch on a worm rig, the bite was clear. The tench and bream are no problem, the tench often dropping the lead on the take.
Ged I get that but, the original idea of this thread is having the lead fixed, so that the fish can swim normally. No small fish is going to swim normally with a 5oz lead attached to it.
I fished Le Queroy in France back in 2017 and it should've had a silver netting the year before, the place was full of 6-8oz Roach. I was using 2.5oz bare method feeders which when method added must have been near 5oz, maybe more as I use a dense paste. I'd turned the Delks vibrate off as there were so many of the buggers, but kept noticing minor jiggles of the indicator head. When retrieving I nearly always had a lip or foul hooked Roach on the end irrespective of bait size. Every now and then I'd get a bleep, I assume when a Roach really panicked as a Cat or big Carp was near but that was it.
I'm very aware of issues with none releasing swivels, not in clips as I don't use them very often, but certainly in my Avid method feeders. I now use them bare, no tubing, no tail rubber, often with the barrel unlocked and often with a bead in front of the swivel, all in the hope I'm minimising the line/swivel getting stuck....the big BUT
Anyone who's fished with silk weed will tell you no matter the bore of the item you're using your line will get jammed at some point even when using a large bore run ring, especially if fishing at distance, in fact you may have to clear your tip ring to boot. If this weed gets around the lead swivel combo the tail rubber is going nowhere and in the case of a fixed lead neither is it.
I've also seen no mention of the damage a hook may inflict if attached to the lead fixed style or it impeding the hooks release as it's always under pressure.
I'm just thinking aloud, as are we all, but there is no proof to support that fishing the lead fixed isn't dangerous to other fish and fowl, surely as responsible anglers we should err with caution until there is? How hard would it be to tank or water test fixed weights to prove one way or the other how they affect them before declaring them safe as they save bigger Carp.
There's not much more I can add to the subject, I come from a scientific back ground and I'm not convinced, it's that simple, for those who agree with the idea I'll have to politely disagree with you, it's all good
In reply to Post #18
Ged I get that but, the original idea of this thread is having the lead fixed, so that the fish can swim normally. No small fish is going to swim normally with a 5oz lead attached to it.
I'm not sure many carp would swim NORMALLY with a 5oz lead attached, but I'm pretty sure that any fish that can move a 5oz lead would have released the lead from the clip on any of my set ups.
I've also seen no mention of the damage a hook may inflict if attached to the lead fixed style or it impeding the hooks release as it's always under pressure.
I think we need to get away from calling a lead clip a fixed lead, it's not, it's semi fixed. A correctly set up clip should be able to release the lead on all but the smallest fish.
Please remember, as I stated in a previous post this scenario only comes into play if you snap off. I can honestly say that I cannot remember ever snapping off on the cast whilst carp fishing, and I caught my first carp over 50 years ago. Of course I've snapped off on unknown snags once or twice, but I have to accept that such things can happen.
As you say I think we will have to politely disagree, I truly believe that the rigs I use (I only use a clip about 50% of the time) are the safest for my fishing situations, and you obviously feel the same for your rigs. At least we both think about what we're trying to achieve.
Ged I get that but, the original idea of this thread is having the lead fixed, so that the fish can swim normally. No small fish is going to swim normally with a 5oz lead attached to it.
I'm not sure many carp would swim NORMALLY with a 5oz lead attached, but I'm pretty sure that any fish that can move a 5oz lead would have released the lead from the clip on any of my set ups.
I've also seen no mention of the damage a hook may inflict if attached to the lead fixed style or it impeding the hooks release as it's always under pressure.
I think we need to get away from calling a lead clip a fixed lead, it's not, it's semi fixed. A correctly set up clip should be able to release the lead on all but the smallest fish.
Please remember, as I stated in a previous post this scenario only comes into play if you snap off. I can honestly say that I cannot remember ever snapping off on the cast whilst carp fishing, and I caught my first carp over 50 years ago. Of course I've snapped off on unknown snags once or twice, but I have to accept that such things can happen.
As you say I think we will have to politely disagree, I truly believe that the rigs I use (I only use a clip about 50% of the time) are the safest for my fishing situations, and you obviously feel the same for your rigs. At least we both think about what we're trying to achieve.
Drop off inline set ups overcome a lot of the issues mentioned.
In reply to Post #19
Couldn't agree with you more about not calling a leadclip fixed. Had some funny conversations about that years ago, what do you mean fixed, how is it fixed? Never understood any of it, never will:D
Couldn't agree with you more about not calling a leadclip fixed. Had some funny conversations about that years ago, what do you mean fixed, how is it fixed? Never understood any of it, never will:D