In reply to Post #17
I cannot believe how abruptly all that original thinking of the 80s and 90s has come to a halt, with the current wisdom focused on sharp and simple. I'm quite sure the advantage has moved from the angler, to the fish. Some of those underwater videos show how many times the bait is taken without the fish being hooked.
It's probably for the best...
I cannot believe how abruptly all that original thinking of the 80s and 90s has come to a halt, with the current wisdom focused on sharp and simple. I'm quite sure the advantage has moved from the angler, to the fish. Some of those underwater videos show how many times the bait is taken without the fish being hooked.
It's probably for the best...
In reply to Post #1
I know what you mean and I'm certain that's why fish "are getting away with it" so much, by allowing the hooklength to fall away and be kicked out straight you aren't giving the fish enough rope to hang itself, hence them getting away with it.. think back to all those videos most of the fish approaching the hookbaits came from the side or the furthest away from the lead, not enough movement of the hooklength.. getting done. I will add when this does work, due to the lack of movement etc the fish tend to be hooked in the bottom lip as the hook is naturally dropping as a fish moves away against the lead. I witnessed a friend fishing a Ronnie rig laid out "perfectly" in a margin spot with 12 fish feeding and the hookbait must have been taken 6 or 7 times before the fish moved off, he changed to a short stiff d rig and instantly hooked one...
Conversely as I found out this year, too long a supple hooklength and the fish have too much movement and the hook holds can be at best poor (scissors/ top lip/ outside mouth etc) or you lose them. I started after lockdown and although catching more than my fair share I was losing loads, this is fishing a true slip D with heavy leads up to 6 oz, dropped from boat with pva nuggets. If you get picked up, the D will slip and you know if you have been done, not once did I reel in and find this to have happened, dropping to a 4" hooklength same method etc and the loses dropped off dramatically, still lost a few but nothing I couldn't live with.
Too much as/is been made about rigs and there effectiveness but no real though as to how and when they should be used, but it sells gear and allows the manufacturers to ply their wares on YouTube etc.
I know what you mean and I'm certain that's why fish "are getting away with it" so much, by allowing the hooklength to fall away and be kicked out straight you aren't giving the fish enough rope to hang itself, hence them getting away with it.. think back to all those videos most of the fish approaching the hookbaits came from the side or the furthest away from the lead, not enough movement of the hooklength.. getting done. I will add when this does work, due to the lack of movement etc the fish tend to be hooked in the bottom lip as the hook is naturally dropping as a fish moves away against the lead. I witnessed a friend fishing a Ronnie rig laid out "perfectly" in a margin spot with 12 fish feeding and the hookbait must have been taken 6 or 7 times before the fish moved off, he changed to a short stiff d rig and instantly hooked one...
Conversely as I found out this year, too long a supple hooklength and the fish have too much movement and the hook holds can be at best poor (scissors/ top lip/ outside mouth etc) or you lose them. I started after lockdown and although catching more than my fair share I was losing loads, this is fishing a true slip D with heavy leads up to 6 oz, dropped from boat with pva nuggets. If you get picked up, the D will slip and you know if you have been done, not once did I reel in and find this to have happened, dropping to a 4" hooklength same method etc and the loses dropped off dramatically, still lost a few but nothing I couldn't live with.
Too much as/is been made about rigs and there effectiveness but no real though as to how and when they should be used, but it sells gear and allows the manufacturers to ply their wares on YouTube etc.
In reply to Post #18
Looks like people are happy with what they are catching. It is good that you work on it if you are not.
Looks like people are happy with what they are catching. It is good that you work on it if you are not.
In reply to Post #18
If the rig is being picked up multiple times by fish wouldn't it in theory land back near the lead at some point thus giving you your desired presentation for a hook up anyway. (depending on the material used obviously)
The underwater videos all tend to feature one type of bating approach (generally in the margins to)all things that need to be considered when using a particular rig. Anyway I agree with where you are coming from.
If the rig is being picked up multiple times by fish wouldn't it in theory land back near the lead at some point thus giving you your desired presentation for a hook up anyway. (depending on the material used obviously)
The underwater videos all tend to feature one type of bating approach (generally in the margins to)all things that need to be considered when using a particular rig. Anyway I agree with where you are coming from.
Where I fish a rig that resets itself is vital, not only to deal with a carp spitting it out but also nuisance fish, crayfish and birdlife, an uncoated braid boom/rig would be mullered IMO
In reply to Post #22
That's the point. Using an effective rig for the conditions is what it is about. Just keep it simple imho
That's the point. Using an effective rig for the conditions is what it is about. Just keep it simple imho
In reply to Post #23
In reply to Post #24
tbh the thread title doesn't match what you have actually written in post 1 and is a bit confusing.
A resetting rig could be just the same as what you are endorsing, say a 4 inch uncoated braided hooklink & inline lead yet your wondering and questioning why people always opt for a resetting rig?
tbh the thread title doesn't match what you have actually written in post 1 and is a bit confusing.
A resetting rig could be just the same as what you are endorsing, say a 4 inch uncoated braided hooklink & inline lead yet your wondering and questioning why people always opt for a resetting rig?
In reply to Post #25
Thank you, my apologies.
I'm wondering what the obsession is with rigs that land with the rig at the furthest point away from the lead and restore this position if the bait is picked up by a fish.
I'm scratching my head because this is, by definition, a rig that continually fails, is it not?
Thank you, my apologies.
I'm wondering what the obsession is with rigs that land with the rig at the furthest point away from the lead and restore this position if the bait is picked up by a fish.
I'm scratching my head because this is, by definition, a rig that continually fails, is it not?
In reply to Post #26
this is, by definition, a rig that continually fails, is it not? NOT REALLY.
Resetting is nothing new TBH, I've been using rigs that do this for 25 plus years.
The BIG & KEY POINT IS THAT no matter what fish swirls near your bait, picks it up, spits it out, roach, bream or carp, it is fishing for you - all the time....
yes, you may miss opportunities if the fish approaches from the hookbait/side furthest from the lead, and has no slack movement, however, you don't need to worry like the old days about supple presentations with soft braided hooklink now in a mess for the rest of your session, and you not knowing until you wind it in
I have watched fish feed in the UK and abroad, and the disturbance that a single/group of fish and it's fins/tail can do to a baited area and rig is interesting to watch.
It is a Confidence thing really mate, little percentages.
In a nutshell - the stiffer the coating, or material, and shorter the hooklink, the reset is easier.
and also the balancing of the hookbait and rig, can make a big difference to it effectiveness.
Hope that helps put you mind at ease
But certain fish still easily deal with it, as lots of rigs act the same, conditioning them to act in a certain way. Every fish feeds in a certain way, some trip up, some never seem to, until something different is cast out.
this is, by definition, a rig that continually fails, is it not? NOT REALLY.
Resetting is nothing new TBH, I've been using rigs that do this for 25 plus years.
The BIG & KEY POINT IS THAT no matter what fish swirls near your bait, picks it up, spits it out, roach, bream or carp, it is fishing for you - all the time....
yes, you may miss opportunities if the fish approaches from the hookbait/side furthest from the lead, and has no slack movement, however, you don't need to worry like the old days about supple presentations with soft braided hooklink now in a mess for the rest of your session, and you not knowing until you wind it in
I have watched fish feed in the UK and abroad, and the disturbance that a single/group of fish and it's fins/tail can do to a baited area and rig is interesting to watch.
It is a Confidence thing really mate, little percentages.
In a nutshell - the stiffer the coating, or material, and shorter the hooklink, the reset is easier.
and also the balancing of the hookbait and rig, can make a big difference to it effectiveness.
Hope that helps put you mind at ease
But certain fish still easily deal with it, as lots of rigs act the same, conditioning them to act in a certain way. Every fish feeds in a certain way, some trip up, some never seem to, until something different is cast out.
In reply to Post #26
Its not a rig that continues to fail however it might take 4 or 5 pick ups before you actually hook a carp, surely thats better odds than leaving a rig out there that might be subject to tangling or poor presentation once some disturbance comes into the swim.
Ive been fishing a tricky lake and have had my success on exactly what you describe a rig that is set and is furthest from the lead. Feed appropriately to ensure the best chance of a hook up.
A pop up on a chod or a stiffish 360 rig might not be the most efficient rig in terms of pick ups to hook ups ratio but might just be fishing longer and therefore better and they also seem to get the bigger fish out of a lake.
All factors considered i think more activity occurs around the hookbait that we can imagine and having the security of a rig that you are 100% is always fishing is better than sitting their having doubt that the rig has been moved and into an awkward position for a pick up. Every lake is of course a little different and im just as interested in how the other anglers are fishing before I can try and decide on the best way to approach a lake.
Its not a rig that continues to fail however it might take 4 or 5 pick ups before you actually hook a carp, surely thats better odds than leaving a rig out there that might be subject to tangling or poor presentation once some disturbance comes into the swim.
Ive been fishing a tricky lake and have had my success on exactly what you describe a rig that is set and is furthest from the lead. Feed appropriately to ensure the best chance of a hook up.
A pop up on a chod or a stiffish 360 rig might not be the most efficient rig in terms of pick ups to hook ups ratio but might just be fishing longer and therefore better and they also seem to get the bigger fish out of a lake.
All factors considered i think more activity occurs around the hookbait that we can imagine and having the security of a rig that you are 100% is always fishing is better than sitting their having doubt that the rig has been moved and into an awkward position for a pick up. Every lake is of course a little different and im just as interested in how the other anglers are fishing before I can try and decide on the best way to approach a lake.
In reply to Post #26
So continually that people catch carp again and again lol
So continually that people catch carp again and again lol
In reply to Post #29
I've become very interested how and why known carp are caught once in the spring/early summer wake up/prespawning/post spawning and again in the autumn when the carp might be predisposed to feeding hard before winter. Carp are being caught predictably twice a year.
Are these fish slipping up because they are feeding much more heavily or are they simply feeding on our baits twice?
I can't answer this question but I feel it's an important one.
I've become very interested how and why known carp are caught once in the spring/early summer wake up/prespawning/post spawning and again in the autumn when the carp might be predisposed to feeding hard before winter. Carp are being caught predictably twice a year.
Are these fish slipping up because they are feeding much more heavily or are they simply feeding on our baits twice?
I can't answer this question but I feel it's an important one.
In reply to Post #30
why known carp are caught once in the spring/early summer wake up/prespawning/post spawning
Because they are dopey and half asleep, but waking up, as mother nature is telling them by instinct, as the water warms up with the longer daylight hours looming that they need to feed, to replace lost fats and energy over the winter period, and build up for pre-spawning and post spawning recovery.
Carp are much easer to catch, on any rig, when they really have a good feed up.
why known carp are caught once in the spring/early summer wake up/prespawning/post spawning
Because they are dopey and half asleep, but waking up, as mother nature is telling them by instinct, as the water warms up with the longer daylight hours looming that they need to feed, to replace lost fats and energy over the winter period, and build up for pre-spawning and post spawning recovery.
Carp are much easer to catch, on any rig, when they really have a good feed up.
In reply to Post #18
Don't watch 2 many vids , it does your nut in , feed them and thay will slip up
Don't watch 2 many vids , it does your nut in , feed them and thay will slip up