This would be a great subject for an underwater test. Running rigs - braid, flouro or mono - light or heavy leads??? Can someone contact Rob Hughes?
In reply to Post #2
Years ago i used to use a heavy inline flat pear, bored out with a bead about a foot and a half behind as a shocker. Nice semi slack line, on a few occasions seemed to have a small liner before an absolute ripper. Which in hindsight was probably a carp not knowing what to do with itself! Fantastic set up that was, makes me wonder why i dont use it anymore!
Years ago i used to use a heavy inline flat pear, bored out with a bead about a foot and a half behind as a shocker. Nice semi slack line, on a few occasions seemed to have a small liner before an absolute ripper. Which in hindsight was probably a carp not knowing what to do with itself! Fantastic set up that was, makes me wonder why i dont use it anymore!
In reply to Post #16
well said
well said
In reply to Post #15
What size running leads are you alluding to 3, 4, 5, 6 oz leads or above? What benefits do you think it negates? Can't be just indication?
Does it matter if the lead moves and the line may not run through the swivel as effectively? Could this help if it does?
If we factor in line used, it's lay & angle, tension from water, debris, etc is it really as cut and dried as we like to imagine?
Not sure the lead stays put while the line runs through it unless using a huge weight especially with the force of a decent take.
What size running leads are you alluding to 3, 4, 5, 6 oz leads or above? What benefits do you think it negates? Can't be just indication?
Does it matter if the lead moves and the line may not run through the swivel as effectively? Could this help if it does?
If we factor in line used, it's lay & angle, tension from water, debris, etc is it really as cut and dried as we like to imagine?
Not sure the lead stays put while the line runs through it unless using a huge weight especially with the force of a decent take.
In reply to Post #19
Would it matter if the lead didn't stay totally put on a decent take? you should already be lifting into the fish, also depending on how tight the line is to the rod has an effect on different lead sizes.
I've used running leads almost exclusively for the last 20 years or so apart from weedy venues in the uk or big foreign snaggy venues where i have felt it better to drop the weight(not necessary a lead), i can say they work with both slack and tight lines i choose my lead size and how tight my line is depending on distance fished and water conditions.
Would it matter if the lead didn't stay totally put on a decent take? you should already be lifting into the fish, also depending on how tight the line is to the rod has an effect on different lead sizes.
I've used running leads almost exclusively for the last 20 years or so apart from weedy venues in the uk or big foreign snaggy venues where i have felt it better to drop the weight(not necessary a lead), i can say they work with both slack and tight lines i choose my lead size and how tight my line is depending on distance fished and water conditions.
In reply to Post #19
Always use the heaviest lead I can get away with so there is the least chance of the lead moving at all. If the lead moves then you may as well use a lead clip or inline system. The main reason for using a running lead is to offer the least amount of resistance on the fish picking up the bait and not being able to use the lead as any sort of tool to help it dislodge the hook from its mouth should it be initially *****ed - especially on heavily pressured fish that have learnt to use the lead to rid the hook by shaking its head & not moving. With the heavier lead not moving easily the fish can move in any direction it wants to giving indication, but if it can move the lead when picking the bait up, then it could easily move to side to side or towards you without any indication.
May not be as cut & dried as we may like to think, but the more it is in our favour the better & using a heavy lead with a running rig offers the optimum requirements for how the rig is designed to work. All of the negatives mentioned there all point to using a heavier lead to stop those from occurring. How many anglers would think of using a rigid stem like what you would use on a marker setup to attach the lead & allow the line to run freely should it be fished over a softer or dirtier substrate? Works well in pike fishing where you ant the least resistance as possible to stop the Pike from dropping the bait before it turns with it.
Heavy lead (4oz+) with a large diameter "run ring" allows the line to run as freely as it can be regardless of the substrate, which in turn gives the best indication on the bobbins regardless of direction the fish moves in. Having the line clipped up at the rod butt helps to set the hook properly as the initial lack of resistance from the light indicator & slack line will have the fish moving away with very little knowledge it has been "ricked" with a sharp hook - hence why most takes are a few bleeps until the bobbin reaches the alarm before screaming off.
Always use the heaviest lead I can get away with so there is the least chance of the lead moving at all. If the lead moves then you may as well use a lead clip or inline system. The main reason for using a running lead is to offer the least amount of resistance on the fish picking up the bait and not being able to use the lead as any sort of tool to help it dislodge the hook from its mouth should it be initially *****ed - especially on heavily pressured fish that have learnt to use the lead to rid the hook by shaking its head & not moving. With the heavier lead not moving easily the fish can move in any direction it wants to giving indication, but if it can move the lead when picking the bait up, then it could easily move to side to side or towards you without any indication.
May not be as cut & dried as we may like to think, but the more it is in our favour the better & using a heavy lead with a running rig offers the optimum requirements for how the rig is designed to work. All of the negatives mentioned there all point to using a heavier lead to stop those from occurring. How many anglers would think of using a rigid stem like what you would use on a marker setup to attach the lead & allow the line to run freely should it be fished over a softer or dirtier substrate? Works well in pike fishing where you ant the least resistance as possible to stop the Pike from dropping the bait before it turns with it.
Heavy lead (4oz+) with a large diameter "run ring" allows the line to run as freely as it can be regardless of the substrate, which in turn gives the best indication on the bobbins regardless of direction the fish moves in. Having the line clipped up at the rod butt helps to set the hook properly as the initial lack of resistance from the light indicator & slack line will have the fish moving away with very little knowledge it has been "ricked" with a sharp hook - hence why most takes are a few bleeps until the bobbin reaches the alarm before screaming off.
In reply to Post #16
I believe Rob Hughes did do a test on running leads on mono in the Underwater Carping series in Carpology (?). I can't remember who he was testing.
However I felt him moving the lead rather than the hookbait negated the test. I can understand why though, obviously you don't want a hook in your finger, but it did not give a genuine result.
Personally I prefer a heavier lead when fishing running leads 3-3.5oz, I don't want the lead moving on the take, and yes, flat pear or grippa leads do hold still better than 'round' pear or distance leads on hard lakebeds, but in silt or clay the normal lead can 'plug'.
I noticed someone mentioned a couple of bleeps before a screamer, I had the same with running leads on run rings.
A running lead set-up is similar to a bolt rig. If you have a copy of Kevin Maddocks Carp Fever, quite literally the only difference is whether it is fished slack or tight line.
Obviously both work at the right time. You can't fish a running lead when undertow is pulling your line, whereas the tight line can stop the line moving (d'oh).
I believe Rob Hughes did do a test on running leads on mono in the Underwater Carping series in Carpology (?). I can't remember who he was testing.
However I felt him moving the lead rather than the hookbait negated the test. I can understand why though, obviously you don't want a hook in your finger, but it did not give a genuine result.
Personally I prefer a heavier lead when fishing running leads 3-3.5oz, I don't want the lead moving on the take, and yes, flat pear or grippa leads do hold still better than 'round' pear or distance leads on hard lakebeds, but in silt or clay the normal lead can 'plug'.
I noticed someone mentioned a couple of bleeps before a screamer, I had the same with running leads on run rings.
A running lead set-up is similar to a bolt rig. If you have a copy of Kevin Maddocks Carp Fever, quite literally the only difference is whether it is fished slack or tight line.
Obviously both work at the right time. You can't fish a running lead when undertow is pulling your line, whereas the tight line can stop the line moving (d'oh).
Never had an issue using 2oz leads with runnings rigs, albeit never at range. Don't see too much issue even if it moves, it's only driving the hook home deeper as it does. Just my opinion of course. I've used them extensively for over a decade as regardless of tight, slack, heavy or light leads, they are much more efficient than in lines or lead clips. Korda underwater taught me that, think it was the second dvd where they did all manner of underwater tests on line, lead setups, etc. With a diver.
In reply to Post #23
Never had an issue either from 1/2 oz right up and agreed the movement actually helps, it's all about resistance and even running rigs have some which the fish feel.
Still stunned that many think the lead stays put on the take, in most cases it will be moving and bouncing all over the place.
Never had an issue either from 1/2 oz right up and agreed the movement actually helps, it's all about resistance and even running rigs have some which the fish feel.
Still stunned that many think the lead stays put on the take, in most cases it will be moving and bouncing all over the place.
In reply to Post #20
What do you think is happening down there when the fish is going for it before lifting into the fish? The lead sat there while the fish takes off?
What do you think is happening down there when the fish is going for it before lifting into the fish? The lead sat there while the fish takes off?
In reply to Post #25
Exactly. A fish of 2lb is lifting a 4oz lead up off the deck as it moves off after being hooked. I'd say if anything the heavier the weight bouncing on the line could be a hinderance and could rip a hook free.
Exactly. A fish of 2lb is lifting a 4oz lead up off the deck as it moves off after being hooked. I'd say if anything the heavier the weight bouncing on the line could be a hinderance and could rip a hook free.
In reply to Post #21
Have used running rigs on and off since I started fishing from 1/2oz right up and they all work, it's about the situations you face.
Have used running rigs on and off since I started fishing from 1/2oz right up and they all work, it's about the situations you face.
In reply to Post #26
Yep, imagine what happens when the big girls get about our rigs! Carnage...
Yep, imagine what happens when the big girls get about our rigs! Carnage...
In reply to Post #16
I think that the weight of the bobbin is more important for bite detection than lead size or whether it's fixed or running. Light bobbins all the way for me.
I think that the weight of the bobbin is more important for bite detection than lead size or whether it's fixed or running. Light bobbins all the way for me.
In reply to Post #29
Light bobbins even if fishing at range after dropping rigs via a boat Andy like the OP?
Light bobbins even if fishing at range after dropping rigs via a boat Andy like the OP?