I've always thought this but I don't think this has ever been mentioned on here ......
I always hear people quoting that pushing the top bead up on a helicopter or chod will almost guarantee that it's fishing well if there's a bit of detritus or crap on the bottom.
Fair enough if you're not hitting a clip and just letting the rig fly into the water but surely if you're hitting the clip the rig will be forced towards the lead and will land next to it ?
If it goes down to the lake on a tight line how is that top bead ever going to come into play ? It isn't in my opinion and I've actually seen underwater footage somewhere once where the exact happened as described.
I always fish heli set ups with the top bead quite close about 6” up from the lead and use a bottom bead approx 2” up just in case there's a bit of crap about , chod rigs I've always pushed the bottom top and bottom beads right up even 2 or 3 foot and have both beads within 2” of the hook link, this aids hooking in my opinion, any thoughts on this top bead ?
I always hear people quoting that pushing the top bead up on a helicopter or chod will almost guarantee that it's fishing well if there's a bit of detritus or crap on the bottom.
Fair enough if you're not hitting a clip and just letting the rig fly into the water but surely if you're hitting the clip the rig will be forced towards the lead and will land next to it ?
If it goes down to the lake on a tight line how is that top bead ever going to come into play ? It isn't in my opinion and I've actually seen underwater footage somewhere once where the exact happened as described.
I always fish heli set ups with the top bead quite close about 6” up from the lead and use a bottom bead approx 2” up just in case there's a bit of crap about , chod rigs I've always pushed the bottom top and bottom beads right up even 2 or 3 foot and have both beads within 2” of the hook link, this aids hooking in my opinion, any thoughts on this top bead ?
In reply to Post #1
even if you hit the clip,the force of the water against the hooklenth as it goes through the water will push the hooklength up to the top bead,remember your in direct contact with the lead and the swivel will slide up as you feel the lead down.
even if you hit the clip,the force of the water against the hooklenth as it goes through the water will push the hooklength up to the top bead,remember your in direct contact with the lead and the swivel will slide up as you feel the lead down.
In reply to Post #1
Agree with post 2. Also if you hold your rod up high as the lead sinks the pop up will move up the line too.
I am with you though. I'll set my bottom bead however far up the line to be clear of the stuff I'm fishing over. That could be 6 inches or 4ft depending on what it is. It makes sense to set the bottom bead far enough up to clear the weed/silt/chod.
Agree with post 2. Also if you hold your rod up high as the lead sinks the pop up will move up the line too.
I am with you though. I'll set my bottom bead however far up the line to be clear of the stuff I'm fishing over. That could be 6 inches or 4ft depending on what it is. It makes sense to set the bottom bead far enough up to clear the weed/silt/chod.
In reply to Post #2
Thing is though the line is tight once the clip is hit and the hook link will be pinned down by the lead or bottom bead, the line will then be on an arc towards the angler on the way down.
Say I'm using a bottom bait it isn't in my opinion going back up the line with the force of water when the force of the cast is pinning it against the bottom bead or lead, if anything you're gonna get bounce back from the line towards the angler.
Just my opinion of course
Thing is though the line is tight once the clip is hit and the hook link will be pinned down by the lead or bottom bead, the line will then be on an arc towards the angler on the way down.
Say I'm using a bottom bait it isn't in my opinion going back up the line with the force of water when the force of the cast is pinning it against the bottom bead or lead, if anything you're gonna get bounce back from the line towards the angler.
Just my opinion of course
In reply to Post #3
I kind of agree with light pop ups , there may be a degree of water resistant because of its weight, what about a hard hooker bottom bait ?
I kind of agree with light pop ups , there may be a degree of water resistant because of its weight, what about a hard hooker bottom bait ?
In reply to Post #5
I personally don't use helis apart from chods. But if you use Pva foam on your hooks that'd have a degree of the same effect, increasing resistance too. I've found that if you watch closely when you hit the clip the chod rig with foam normally ends up at the top bead due to air resistance. Assume this would be similar for any other rig on a heli.
I personally don't use helis apart from chods. But if you use Pva foam on your hooks that'd have a degree of the same effect, increasing resistance too. I've found that if you watch closely when you hit the clip the chod rig with foam normally ends up at the top bead due to air resistance. Assume this would be similar for any other rig on a heli.
In reply to Post #4
but the swivel is free running, it has no resistance........test it in a deep clear margin with it on the clip,you will se as the lead goes down,even if you had a bottom bait on the weight of the lead is that much greater the hooklength can't keep up on the drop amd slides up to the top bead
but the swivel is free running, it has no resistance........test it in a deep clear margin with it on the clip,you will se as the lead goes down,even if you had a bottom bait on the weight of the lead is that much greater the hooklength can't keep up on the drop amd slides up to the top bead
In reply to Post #7
You are probably correct for chods, especially with a light lead.
How rigs drop through water though can be more complicated than a hinge at the rod tip with a straight line to the lead, depending on depth, range, line type, lead weight, presence of weed beds etc etc.
I fish overnighters pretty much exclusively so I use chods quite a lot. What I do is hit the clip, pull the tip back to just past vertical, or more in deeper water, then follow the lead down with the tip. This will accentuate the hingeing in the line, in the water close to the rig due to the water resistance to the sinking line. Therefore the lead will go down pretty much vertically, thus ensuring the pop-up gets quite close to the top bead. Obviously not very accurate as to exact spots, but if you were fishing an exact spot presumably you wouldn't be using a chod...
Also I always use a 6 inch-ish boom to the lead from the bottom bead. Once you have hit the bottom, let the line sink with a slack-ish line and high rod tip so the leader / naked line and pop-up settle gently over the weed.
Didn't invent any of this (although I kind of did always follow the lead down a bit, since doing it with lures to get a more vertical drop), saw it somewhere and makes sense to me - have a search on internet or youtube or something (I'm thinking maybe something quite recent from gardner explains it well?).
If you're fishing a heavy bottom bait, presumably you are fishing a clean or at least silty area, in which case who cares if you are on the top bead or not ? As you say, probably best to have your bottom bead as close as possible to the lead - allowing maybe for a bit of silt depth - and the top one fairly tight.
You are probably correct for chods, especially with a light lead.
How rigs drop through water though can be more complicated than a hinge at the rod tip with a straight line to the lead, depending on depth, range, line type, lead weight, presence of weed beds etc etc.
I fish overnighters pretty much exclusively so I use chods quite a lot. What I do is hit the clip, pull the tip back to just past vertical, or more in deeper water, then follow the lead down with the tip. This will accentuate the hingeing in the line, in the water close to the rig due to the water resistance to the sinking line. Therefore the lead will go down pretty much vertically, thus ensuring the pop-up gets quite close to the top bead. Obviously not very accurate as to exact spots, but if you were fishing an exact spot presumably you wouldn't be using a chod...
Also I always use a 6 inch-ish boom to the lead from the bottom bead. Once you have hit the bottom, let the line sink with a slack-ish line and high rod tip so the leader / naked line and pop-up settle gently over the weed.
Didn't invent any of this (although I kind of did always follow the lead down a bit, since doing it with lures to get a more vertical drop), saw it somewhere and makes sense to me - have a search on internet or youtube or something (I'm thinking maybe something quite recent from gardner explains it well?).
If you're fishing a heavy bottom bait, presumably you are fishing a clean or at least silty area, in which case who cares if you are on the top bead or not ? As you say, probably best to have your bottom bead as close as possible to the lead - allowing maybe for a bit of silt depth - and the top one fairly tight.
In reply to Post #8
Sorry meant to reply to #1
Andy says the same as me except I think if you use a 1/1.5 oz lead in shallow water with a tight line sink after hitting the clip, you can't guarantee being on the top bead for sure.
Sorry meant to reply to #1
Andy says the same as me except I think if you use a 1/1.5 oz lead in shallow water with a tight line sink after hitting the clip, you can't guarantee being on the top bead for sure.
In reply to Post #9
Matt Eaton mentions his style for following the lead on cast so it drops more vertically. Not sure if it works more in theory than practise though. An underarm lob can change the direction of travel if its short chuck.
Foaming or PVA bagging pop ups helps.
PS has anyone fished without a top bead at all ? (ref Mike Wilmott doing this in his book)
Matt Eaton mentions his style for following the lead on cast so it drops more vertically. Not sure if it works more in theory than practise though. An underarm lob can change the direction of travel if its short chuck.
Foaming or PVA bagging pop ups helps.
PS has anyone fished without a top bead at all ? (ref Mike Wilmott doing this in his book)
In reply to Post #1
I think the footage you're referring to was Nick Hellier as a guest on one of the Korda underwater DVD's. Fishing with a tigernut and a stick if I remember correctly?
I think the footage you're referring to was Nick Hellier as a guest on one of the Korda underwater DVD's. Fishing with a tigernut and a stick if I remember correctly?
In reply to Post #1
Im sure rob hales and harry charrington did a chod underwater video where they mention this. Vould be worth a search in you tube
Im sure rob hales and harry charrington did a chod underwater video where they mention this. Vould be worth a search in you tube
In reply to Post #10
Yep that must be it, he's with Gardner isn't he?
Definately works, obiviously more or less depending on how fast you follow it, and how far vs depth. At the extreme end, if you open the bail arm it's going to go down almost vertically.
Yes of course with a fairly high under arm lob your lead is going to hit the surface more vertically and you will also automatically have some slack line, so same effect.
Yep that must be it, he's with Gardner isn't he?
Definately works, obiviously more or less depending on how fast you follow it, and how far vs depth. At the extreme end, if you open the bail arm it's going to go down almost vertically.
Yes of course with a fairly high under arm lob your lead is going to hit the surface more vertically and you will also automatically have some slack line, so same effect.
In reply to Post #13
Yeh he is. Clearly thinks about his craft and getting the most from a style of fishing.
High lob will see it drop from a higher elevation and prob more time to follow in with rod?
Yeh he is. Clearly thinks about his craft and getting the most from a style of fishing.
High lob will see it drop from a higher elevation and prob more time to follow in with rod?
In reply to Post #10
Not sure what the bite would be like without it hitting some sort of back stop
It could potentially swim all the way back to the rod and not register
Unlikely, but could happen.
Would be like the old metal buzzer game from school fates when I was a kid where you had to get from one end of a piece of metal to the other without setting of the alarm
Get to the other end without sounding the buzzer and win a crappy prize
Not sure what the bite would be like without it hitting some sort of back stop
It could potentially swim all the way back to the rod and not register
Unlikely, but could happen.
Would be like the old metal buzzer game from school fates when I was a kid where you had to get from one end of a piece of metal to the other without setting of the alarm
Get to the other end without sounding the buzzer and win a crappy prize