I'm looking at trying the above rig using a Nash claw hook but I'm a bit put off by lots of fisheries banning it completely. Are the reports of mouth damage due to the rig itself or the long shank hooks that are typically used with it? Has anyone used this rig with the Nash claws, if so how are the hook holds?
Haven't used it with Nash Claws, but used the Ronnie a lot in 2020/2021 with Mugga style hooks to maximise the hooking potential.
The result? Lots of fish, zero mouth damage.
I know that one syndicate near me bans it because of the possibility of metalware getting caught in the mesh of the net, therefore potentially causing damage. As long as the hook eye and quick release swivel are encased in shrink tube, there's nothing that can get caught up.
The old bent hook rig used with pop ups had vaguely similar mechanics and did unfortunately cause a lot of mouth damage. Todays rigs, not so much.
The result? Lots of fish, zero mouth damage.
I know that one syndicate near me bans it because of the possibility of metalware getting caught in the mesh of the net, therefore potentially causing damage. As long as the hook eye and quick release swivel are encased in shrink tube, there's nothing that can get caught up.
The old bent hook rig used with pop ups had vaguely similar mechanics and did unfortunately cause a lot of mouth damage. Todays rigs, not so much.
In reply to Post #1
Im assuming the lake is a day ticket/open club water?
These rules are generally there, not because the rig itself causes damage, but more the knobheads using it. Same reasons we have bait bans etc on these lakes, the baits are safe, its just people dont seem to be born with brains
Im assuming the lake is a day ticket/open club water?
These rules are generally there, not because the rig itself causes damage, but more the knobheads using it. Same reasons we have bait bans etc on these lakes, the baits are safe, its just people dont seem to be born with brains
In reply to Post #1
I think it's the same with a lot of rigs, it's not necessarily the rig but when you get inexperienced or uncaring people tying it, leaving more metal showing than necessary etc etc.
I begrudgingly used the Ronnie for the first time about 2 years ago after years of being stubborn and refusing 😂 it's a great rig that gives great hook holds, and so far I haven't had a fish with any mouth damage, fingers crossed it stays that way!
I think it's the same with a lot of rigs, it's not necessarily the rig but when you get inexperienced or uncaring people tying it, leaving more metal showing than necessary etc etc.
I begrudgingly used the Ronnie for the first time about 2 years ago after years of being stubborn and refusing 😂 it's a great rig that gives great hook holds, and so far I haven't had a fish with any mouth damage, fingers crossed it stays that way!
In reply to Post #1
Some don't put the shrink tubing all the way over the QC swivel clip and\or the clip not facing away from the mouth if that makes sense.
So the QC swivel clip cuts the mouth.
Some don't put the shrink tubing all the way over the QC swivel clip and\or the clip not facing away from the mouth if that makes sense.
So the QC swivel clip cuts the mouth.
In reply to Post #1
Absolutely 100%
In the originally “Ronnie” thread I posted something that I had been tinkering with a few years ago prior to Ronny raising his head, makes sense to me me, all I will say is a free moving hook grabs hold all over the place and when you understand where a carp “comfortably” pulls that bait to when it's in their mouth it's far back! I witnessed LOTS of internal hookpulls when unhooking them when removing the hook from the lip, look down their throat, I could feel it, we have to be honest, poor show really and that is why I stopped using it, you could see the tear lines well inside their mouth, and that's a fact
And for the record, anybody who does not know what a hookpull is, it usually causes mouth damage to the carps mouth as you tear the hook out through tension
Absolutely 100%
In the originally “Ronnie” thread I posted something that I had been tinkering with a few years ago prior to Ronny raising his head, makes sense to me me, all I will say is a free moving hook grabs hold all over the place and when you understand where a carp “comfortably” pulls that bait to when it's in their mouth it's far back! I witnessed LOTS of internal hookpulls when unhooking them when removing the hook from the lip, look down their throat, I could feel it, we have to be honest, poor show really and that is why I stopped using it, you could see the tear lines well inside their mouth, and that's a fact
And for the record, anybody who does not know what a hookpull is, it usually causes mouth damage to the carps mouth as you tear the hook out through tension
Almost all lakes I fish have banned it, including both my syndicates because of mouth damage
In reply to Post #6
Do you not think that seeing tears further back in the mouth, in the softer tissue, would not be more down to the hooklink being too long, rather than the actual hook set up.
And the hook hold is always random. There are numerous factors that come into play, such as how the fish are feeding, direction it approached it from, hookbait, size of hook, length and stiffness of the hooklink etc.
Do you not think that seeing tears further back in the mouth, in the softer tissue, would not be more down to the hooklink being too long, rather than the actual hook set up.
And the hook hold is always random. There are numerous factors that come into play, such as how the fish are feeding, direction it approached it from, hookbait, size of hook, length and stiffness of the hooklink etc.
In reply to Post #8
No, deffo the hook that was coming out and grabbing again, deep slits in a couple of fish about 10mm long. There's a way I was using it that gives the hook a lot more movement and I stopped doing that and it stopped the tearing
No, deffo the hook that was coming out and grabbing again, deep slits in a couple of fish about 10mm long. There's a way I was using it that gives the hook a lot more movement and I stopped doing that and it stopped the tearing
In reply to Post #9
But any rig catching hold that far back in a carps mouth, suggests the hooklink is too long does it not? The actual hooking mechanics of the rig, shouldnt make a difference to how far back the rig is going. If it was a basic hair rig going that far in the mouth, you would surely shorten the hooklink? So why is it different in this case?
But any rig catching hold that far back in a carps mouth, suggests the hooklink is too long does it not? The actual hooking mechanics of the rig, shouldnt make a difference to how far back the rig is going. If it was a basic hair rig going that far in the mouth, you would surely shorten the hooklink? So why is it different in this case?
In reply to Post #1
My understanding on most bans is net based error/accident; and to be honest I have witnessed/ experienced it by accident myself.
Irrespective of how much silicone covers the crook on the mini swivel the metalwork/loop/counterweight for whatever weird non scientific reason can get caught in finer meshes when the fish is landed . . .fish get stressed and kicks into the net but the rig is already entwined in the mesh somewhere else therefore pulling the hook further into / across the fishes gob. This can be further exacerbated if the angler doesn't realise its snagged and then rolls the net up (either with mainline attached or removed)
The majority of the time this never happens and if anglers unhook the fish in the net before lifting out then it mitigates any probs straight away . . .
My understanding on most bans is net based error/accident; and to be honest I have witnessed/ experienced it by accident myself.
Irrespective of how much silicone covers the crook on the mini swivel the metalwork/loop/counterweight for whatever weird non scientific reason can get caught in finer meshes when the fish is landed . . .fish get stressed and kicks into the net but the rig is already entwined in the mesh somewhere else therefore pulling the hook further into / across the fishes gob. This can be further exacerbated if the angler doesn't realise its snagged and then rolls the net up (either with mainline attached or removed)
The majority of the time this never happens and if anglers unhook the fish in the net before lifting out then it mitigates any probs straight away . . .
In reply to Post #9
I give up, go figure it out yourself
The bottom was blanket weed and silt in spots but I'm making it up for carpforum
I give up, go figure it out yourself
The bottom was blanket weed and silt in spots but I'm making it up for carpforum
In reply to Post #12
I asked a question, no need to throw a hissy is there. If you cant handle people asking questions, maybe contributing to a discussion forum isnt for you
I asked a question, no need to throw a hissy is there. If you cant handle people asking questions, maybe contributing to a discussion forum isnt for you
In reply to Post #13
I explained in my earlier post about a LOT of hook movement. When a carp is feeding confident it is taking the bait straight back towards the pharyngeal teeth which is a fair way down its throat, because of all the movement the hook was taking hold far back, not like waiting for it to straighten itself and pull the hook into itself, it was instantly hooked deep and then bolted and then torn the hook out which then took hold again
I explained in my earlier post about a LOT of hook movement. When a carp is feeding confident it is taking the bait straight back towards the pharyngeal teeth which is a fair way down its throat, because of all the movement the hook was taking hold far back, not like waiting for it to straighten itself and pull the hook into itself, it was instantly hooked deep and then bolted and then torn the hook out which then took hold again
You're both (Heff, Scozza) avoiding the real problem.
The clip is causing the damage....
Some don't put the shrink tubing all the way over the QC swivel clip and\or the clip not facing away from the mouth if that makes sense.
So the QC swivel clip cuts the mouth.
That's why waters ban it.
The clip is causing the damage....
Some don't put the shrink tubing all the way over the QC swivel clip and\or the clip not facing away from the mouth if that makes sense.
So the QC swivel clip cuts the mouth.
That's why waters ban it.