Hi all,
Anyone used this setup and any feedback? I love the chod and usually use a leadcore section then straight to sub braid with great success, but been thinking of going pure braid all the way through, as it sinks and is supple enough to settle over low lying weed.
Anyone used this setup and any feedback? I love the chod and usually use a leadcore section then straight to sub braid with great success, but been thinking of going pure braid all the way through, as it sinks and is supple enough to settle over low lying weed.
In reply to Post #1
Big no no. Braid when tight is like cheese wire. Use a flurocarbon leader instead.
Big no no. Braid when tight is like cheese wire. Use a flurocarbon leader instead.
In reply to Post #2
Surely it depends on the diameter of the braid?
Surely it depends on the diameter of the braid?
In reply to Post #2
As also stated, don't agree when using high diameter Braid. Also this would mean we would never use braided hook links of any length surely??? The cheese wire theory would also apply to their mouths?
As also stated, don't agree when using high diameter Braid. Also this would mean we would never use braided hook links of any length surely??? The cheese wire theory would also apply to their mouths?
In reply to Post #2
It's always puzzled me...
If using a flouro leader then surely there must be a bulky knot where the flouro and braid join.
Maybe you use a big eyed swivel. How can this be truly safe?
It's always puzzled me...
If using a flouro leader then surely there must be a bulky knot where the flouro and braid join.
Maybe you use a big eyed swivel. How can this be truly safe?
In reply to Post #5
It's no different from using any kind of leader. I usually use enough fluro to get a few turns on the spool, makes casting a little more comfortable. An albright knot packs down pretty small.
Fair point about depending what diameter, still, I personally wouldn't be a fan. But I did used to use really long 12lb silkworm hook links and never had an issue, and that stuff really is cheesewire. So maybe it's a bit of a non issue.
It's no different from using any kind of leader. I usually use enough fluro to get a few turns on the spool, makes casting a little more comfortable. An albright knot packs down pretty small.
Fair point about depending what diameter, still, I personally wouldn't be a fan. But I did used to use really long 12lb silkworm hook links and never had an issue, and that stuff really is cheesewire. So maybe it's a bit of a non issue.
In reply to Post #6
Completely agree. I personally think that braid straight through is safer than a leadcore leader, or any leader for that matter, the less knots the better. I might give it a go and see.
Completely agree. I personally think that braid straight through is safer than a leadcore leader, or any leader for that matter, the less knots the better. I might give it a go and see.
In reply to Post #4
Braided hooklinks are a different material to braided mainline. I think (note, I think, not sure) braid mainlines are now coming with a Teflon or Kevlar component in the strand, which is capable of cutting as they are a finer diameter than most hooklink braids which don't have the Kevlar component.
Always with braid for carp fishing, I think you should use a mono, fluorocarbon leader, or cover the last metre or so with tubing.
Naked helicopter setups could be a problem.
Braided hooklinks are a different material to braided mainline. I think (note, I think, not sure) braid mainlines are now coming with a Teflon or Kevlar component in the strand, which is capable of cutting as they are a finer diameter than most hooklink braids which don't have the Kevlar component.
Always with braid for carp fishing, I think you should use a mono, fluorocarbon leader, or cover the last metre or so with tubing.
Naked helicopter setups could be a problem.
If you're using braided mainline, you should always use at least a meter of leadcore, or very thick flurocarbon/mono as a leader.
Mainline braids are like cheesewire and can cause tail damage, cut fins and lift scales right off.
Hooklengths aren't usually much of a problem because they're not long enough to really cause damage, however with braided mainline there's enough of it running alongside the full length of the fish that it can cause significant damage, especially to the tail, and especially with bigger stronger fish, with large tails.
Mainline braids are like cheesewire and can cause tail damage, cut fins and lift scales right off.
Hooklengths aren't usually much of a problem because they're not long enough to really cause damage, however with braided mainline there's enough of it running alongside the full length of the fish that it can cause significant damage, especially to the tail, and especially with bigger stronger fish, with large tails.
In reply to Post #9
Nonsense (in my opinion)
A braid with a diameter of 0.34 is causing no more damage than 15lb mono straight through.
And your theory of a braided hooklink being too short to cause damage? Well unless it's coated it's definitely not true. More than capable of damaging the mouths of carp much more than mono/fluoro/coated braids.
If we're talking about say 20lb power pro then yes definitely wouldn't be comfortable using it
This all being said I use leaders anyway because I prefer a stronger link at the business end., I'm just playing devils advocate.
Nonsense (in my opinion)
A braid with a diameter of 0.34 is causing no more damage than 15lb mono straight through.
And your theory of a braided hooklink being too short to cause damage? Well unless it's coated it's definitely not true. More than capable of damaging the mouths of carp much more than mono/fluoro/coated braids.
If we're talking about say 20lb power pro then yes definitely wouldn't be comfortable using it
This all being said I use leaders anyway because I prefer a stronger link at the business end., I'm just playing devils advocate.
Braid will always cause a lot more damage than mono straight through because it's abrasive with zero stretch, even if it's thicker - it cuts a lot more than mono, because it's abrasive.
To be honest, you'd lose your ticket from any well-run water, for fishing braid directly down to the lead, and rightly so.
To be honest, you'd lose your ticket from any well-run water, for fishing braid directly down to the lead, and rightly so.
In reply to Post #11
Completely disagree. All setups will lift scales and cause potential damage during a fight, I have seen more scales lifted with Zigs and long hook links, and your theory that it doesn't apply to braided hook links is contradictory and doesn't make sense. The theory that some sort of leader or tubing protects fish is completely dependent on the rig length for it to be effective. Also the idea that you would loose your ticket because you haven't got a metre of 45lb lead core ( which is braid with a lead wire inner!) is nonsense, lead core poses just as much as a threat as any material, if not more.
Naked helicopter setups are one of the most fish safe setups you can use, they allow the rig to completely detach itself from any end tackle due to having no knots. You will never be able to prevent fish damage in a fight, at the end of the day you are trying to put a hook in their mouth and pull them in!
Completely disagree. All setups will lift scales and cause potential damage during a fight, I have seen more scales lifted with Zigs and long hook links, and your theory that it doesn't apply to braided hook links is contradictory and doesn't make sense. The theory that some sort of leader or tubing protects fish is completely dependent on the rig length for it to be effective. Also the idea that you would loose your ticket because you haven't got a metre of 45lb lead core ( which is braid with a lead wire inner!) is nonsense, lead core poses just as much as a threat as any material, if not more.
Naked helicopter setups are one of the most fish safe setups you can use, they allow the rig to completely detach itself from any end tackle due to having no knots. You will never be able to prevent fish damage in a fight, at the end of the day you are trying to put a hook in their mouth and pull them in!
As Nick points out, almost all braided hook lengths are totally different to braided mainline.
Hook length materials are almost all coated, smooth, very thick and are completely different to what you'd use as mainline.
Using braid down to the lead without a leader, is just irresponsible and amateur, yes we're putting hooks in fish, but that doesn't mean we should do all we can to ensure fish welfare and minimise damage where possible.
Your point regarding lead core vs mainline braid being equally safe is wrong. This is because leadcore is much thicker and generally softer, than tight mainline braid, so it does less damaged when pulled tight across a fishes body.
I'm on 2 different well known syndicates, both are an instant ban for using braid naked down to the lead.
Hook length materials are almost all coated, smooth, very thick and are completely different to what you'd use as mainline.
Using braid down to the lead without a leader, is just irresponsible and amateur, yes we're putting hooks in fish, but that doesn't mean we should do all we can to ensure fish welfare and minimise damage where possible.
Your point regarding lead core vs mainline braid being equally safe is wrong. This is because leadcore is much thicker and generally softer, than tight mainline braid, so it does less damaged when pulled tight across a fishes body.
I'm on 2 different well known syndicates, both are an instant ban for using braid naked down to the lead.
In reply to Post #13
Advocating the use of leaders to increase fish safety is amateurish. 0.35 braid doesn't cut into a fishes flank like cheese wire.
Advocating the use of leaders to increase fish safety is amateurish. 0.35 braid doesn't cut into a fishes flank like cheese wire.
In reply to Post #14
You crack on!
Go and get a ticket on any well run syndicate with good fish, fished by anglers who know what they're doing, then see what happens when you're caught fishing braided mainline directly down to the lead without a leader.
You crack on!
Go and get a ticket on any well run syndicate with good fish, fished by anglers who know what they're doing, then see what happens when you're caught fishing braided mainline directly down to the lead without a leader.
In reply to Post #14
In reply to Post #13
Advocating the use of leaders to increase fish safety is amateurish. 0.35 braid doesn't cut into a fishes flank like cheese wire.
Yes it does.
Sorry, I'll find a rather nice report for you to read:
What are the disadvantages of braid then?
The lack of stretch and low diameter combine to make a very efficient cheese wire, which although capable of cutting through weed, can also cut through flesh (fish and human!). Zero-stretch also means that there is no cushioning effect and great care needs to be taken so as not to tear hooks out during the fight. The battle is likely to be a more hairy experience than you may be familiar with and can take a bit of getting used to. Sudden pressure, such as that exerted during casting, can cause fine braids to snap without any stretch to absorb some of the strain.
Is there anything that can be done to mitigate those issues?
Indeed there is. Let's look at casting first. A hard cast can result in a finger cut to the bone but a leather finger stall or casting glove will eliminate the chance of this occurring. Ensuring the clutch is done up tight stops any slippage causing a sawing action. The other option is to add a monofilament leader to the set up, which is kinder on the skin. Leader knots tend to be a little complicated to tie so it's worth learning a good one such as the Mahin, if you're going to use braid extensively.
Are there other benefits of using a leader?
Yes, and the leader has other benefits too. It adds an element of cushioning, making playing fish in the margins less hairy. In addition it keeps the fine braid well away from the carps' flanks so it's less likely to lift scales or cut into them in the event of a breakage.
Don't fish braided mainline naked
It could be if not used with care. You shouldn't fish “naked” like you can with mono and fluorocarbon as there is a risk of a fine, non-stretch material causing damage. Your set-up should always incorporate some thicker material such as tubing, leadcore, lead-free or maybe a fused leader in order to protect fishes' flanks. Another factor with braid is that it lasts a long, long time as it won't rot in the same way as mono. Consequently it is essential that you use gear that is up to the job. Braid's longevity is one of its bonuses but not if it's cracked off and attached to a carp
In reply to Post #13
Advocating the use of leaders to increase fish safety is amateurish. 0.35 braid doesn't cut into a fishes flank like cheese wire.
Yes it does.
Sorry, I'll find a rather nice report for you to read:
What are the disadvantages of braid then?
The lack of stretch and low diameter combine to make a very efficient cheese wire, which although capable of cutting through weed, can also cut through flesh (fish and human!). Zero-stretch also means that there is no cushioning effect and great care needs to be taken so as not to tear hooks out during the fight. The battle is likely to be a more hairy experience than you may be familiar with and can take a bit of getting used to. Sudden pressure, such as that exerted during casting, can cause fine braids to snap without any stretch to absorb some of the strain.
Is there anything that can be done to mitigate those issues?
Indeed there is. Let's look at casting first. A hard cast can result in a finger cut to the bone but a leather finger stall or casting glove will eliminate the chance of this occurring. Ensuring the clutch is done up tight stops any slippage causing a sawing action. The other option is to add a monofilament leader to the set up, which is kinder on the skin. Leader knots tend to be a little complicated to tie so it's worth learning a good one such as the Mahin, if you're going to use braid extensively.
Are there other benefits of using a leader?
Yes, and the leader has other benefits too. It adds an element of cushioning, making playing fish in the margins less hairy. In addition it keeps the fine braid well away from the carps' flanks so it's less likely to lift scales or cut into them in the event of a breakage.
Don't fish braided mainline naked
It could be if not used with care. You shouldn't fish “naked” like you can with mono and fluorocarbon as there is a risk of a fine, non-stretch material causing damage. Your set-up should always incorporate some thicker material such as tubing, leadcore, lead-free or maybe a fused leader in order to protect fishes' flanks. Another factor with braid is that it lasts a long, long time as it won't rot in the same way as mono. Consequently it is essential that you use gear that is up to the job. Braid's longevity is one of its bonuses but not if it's cracked off and attached to a carp
In reply to Post #16
It's official guys. The report is in 😂
It's official guys. The report is in 😂
In reply to Post #15
This is irrelevant. You're talking about tules of lakes set by lake owners to mitigate the chances of fish damage.
This is irrelevant. You're talking about tules of lakes set by lake owners to mitigate the chances of fish damage.
In reply to Post #18
This is irrelevant. You're talking about tules of lakes set by lake owners to mitigate the chances of fish damage.
Well from your second sentence it means it has become relevant.
This is irrelevant. You're talking about tules of lakes set by lake owners to mitigate the chances of fish damage.
Well from your second sentence it means it has become relevant.
How about you test the materials acorss your arm, try and simulate various situations, and compare the results. If it cuts you, it will cut a fish
I think a leader of some description should always be used when fishing braid straight through to the lead, it could be tubing, a length of flouro, mono even leadcore.
I have seen first hand damage caused to carp from braid straight through and braid snag leaders, i am yet to see any thankfullly when a mono or such type leader is used at the end of the braided section.
Regards to braid hooklengths i was carp fishing before braid hooklengths were thought of and saw the introduction of them i haven't seen any damage caused by them, i think maybe the hook which is in direct contact to the mouth and a line aligner of some description vastly reduces the chance of any damage?
I have seen first hand damage caused to carp from braid straight through and braid snag leaders, i am yet to see any thankfullly when a mono or such type leader is used at the end of the braided section.
Regards to braid hooklengths i was carp fishing before braid hooklengths were thought of and saw the introduction of them i haven't seen any damage caused by them, i think maybe the hook which is in direct contact to the mouth and a line aligner of some description vastly reduces the chance of any damage?
In reply to Post #21
Possibly that most hooklengths are a round profile and mainline are square. Not sure.
I
Possibly that most hooklengths are a round profile and mainline are square. Not sure.
I
In reply to Post #22
Braided mainline is banned on a lot of waters and tbh people using braid straight through is just going to make more lakes ban it. I appreciate there are different diameters and profiles but to cover all circumstances a leader of some sort must be used and its a fair enough rule to follow.
Braided mainline is banned on a lot of waters and tbh people using braid straight through is just going to make more lakes ban it. I appreciate there are different diameters and profiles but to cover all circumstances a leader of some sort must be used and its a fair enough rule to follow.
In reply to Post #19
My point was it's irrelevant talking about someone else's opinion. The fact a lake owner(s) decided to band braid straight through has no relevance to a debate regarding the diameters of braid causing more problems than thinner monos. That's all I meant by that
My point was it's irrelevant talking about someone else's opinion. The fact a lake owner(s) decided to band braid straight through has no relevance to a debate regarding the diameters of braid causing more problems than thinner monos. That's all I meant by that
In reply to Post #23
Totally agree. One I abide to and even if it wasn't a rule I would still use a leader, there isn't a scenario in which I wouldn't. Just playing devils advocate.
Totally agree. One I abide to and even if it wasn't a rule I would still use a leader, there isn't a scenario in which I wouldn't. Just playing devils advocate.
What do people use when using a braid shock leader for long range fishing
In reply to Post #26
Tubing or another leader after the leader. Same when using a braided snag leader.
Tubing or another leader after the leader. Same when using a braided snag leader.
In reply to Post #27
Isn't that worse having 2 knots and leaders ? Tubing I can understand more but I've never seen anyone use it when distance casting on big lakes.
Isn't that worse having 2 knots and leaders ? Tubing I can understand more but I've never seen anyone use it when distance casting on big lakes.
In reply to Post #28
A well tied leader knot won't fail. An extra knot isn't ideal, but I think the pros outweigh the cons.
A well tied leader knot won't fail. An extra knot isn't ideal, but I think the pros outweigh the cons.
In reply to Post #10
Do you really think a braid with 0.34mm is causing no more damage than 15lb mono straight through?
Do you really think a braid with 0.34mm is causing no more damage than 15lb mono straight through?
In reply to Post #28
Tubing seems the most sensible option to me. However my club has a no braid mainline rule and a minimum 0.5m tubing. Leaders also banned.
Tubing seems the most sensible option to me. However my club has a no braid mainline rule and a minimum 0.5m tubing. Leaders also banned.
In reply to Post #26
Leadcore normally, just make sure the splice is nice and neat so that the lead clip will slide over it and not get stuck on the splice.
Or if I use a helisafe system, normally the top bead doesn't have that much resistance, so if there's a crack off or cut off, the hook length can slide back over the leadcore and remaining braid and detach from the mainline.
For joining shockleader to mainline i use al Albright or Alberto knot, as these knots are nice and thin and help prevent things getting stuck.
Leadcore normally, just make sure the splice is nice and neat so that the lead clip will slide over it and not get stuck on the splice.
Or if I use a helisafe system, normally the top bead doesn't have that much resistance, so if there's a crack off or cut off, the hook length can slide back over the leadcore and remaining braid and detach from the mainline.
For joining shockleader to mainline i use al Albright or Alberto knot, as these knots are nice and thin and help prevent things getting stuck.
In reply to Post #31
The only issue is that threading tubing over braid is an absolute pain in the backside.
The only issue is that threading tubing over braid is an absolute pain in the backside.
In reply to Post #33
If tubing is being used its essential to make sure the tubing cant come away easily from the tail rubber etc i have seen it where the tubing has slid up a braided leader during the fight and caused damage.
For this reason i would prefer to use a length of mono, flouro, leadcore or lead free leader.
If tubing is being used its essential to make sure the tubing cant come away easily from the tail rubber etc i have seen it where the tubing has slid up a braided leader during the fight and caused damage.
For this reason i would prefer to use a length of mono, flouro, leadcore or lead free leader.
The lake I'm currently on 90% of anglers use braid shockleaders with no tubing or extra leaders and haven't seen any damage at all. It's all open water with no weed. Personally I use a heavy braid leader .36 not ideal for long range but I think it certainly reduces any chance of damage.
In reply to Post #35
I too haven't witnessed any damage associated with the use of heavy braid or braided leaders. Your water must not be well run and all the anglers must be amateurs, according to some!
You should also only use Heli setups with lead core as this is the safest setup to use, using lead clips on leadcore shouldn't be advocated as it will result in a fish trailing the lead core in in the event of a crack off. I have seen more fish damaged and killed from these setups than anything, and to then have a braided shock leader behind that is utter madness.
I too haven't witnessed any damage associated with the use of heavy braid or braided leaders. Your water must not be well run and all the anglers must be amateurs, according to some!
You should also only use Heli setups with lead core as this is the safest setup to use, using lead clips on leadcore shouldn't be advocated as it will result in a fish trailing the lead core in in the event of a crack off. I have seen more fish damaged and killed from these setups than anything, and to then have a braided shock leader behind that is utter madness.
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