After reading a post on here about the dangers of using leadcore, I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how to make a safe heli lead setup without using leadcore to use with a spinner rig.

In reply to Post #1
Fish it naked, google 'naked helicopter rig'.

Exactly the same but the rig runs on the line.

In reply to Post #2
https://www.anglingdirect.co.uk/fox-edges-camo-naked-chod-heli-buffer-sleeves

In reply to Post #1
Instead of leadcore I moved over to fox illusion fluro, I don't normally rate fox terminal but their fluro has been bang on. I use 30lb and use about 5 ft of it with a mahin knot to 12lb cm90 with a naked no trace bead.

It requires a straighten each time I set up my rods but that's no issue.

In reply to Post #1
What about leadfree, the Gardner Camflex stuff is good

In reply to Post #5
I'd second that or go naked.

In reply to Post #5
Presumably I will be allowed to use that on lakes where leadcore is banned?

In reply to Post #7
Usually yes, if they say no leadcore you will be fine, if they say no leaders then not

In reply to Post #8
Is the problem with leadcore leaders the weight of the lead in them which means they collect more debris on them?

In reply to Post #9
No, it's the lead can kink and cause some rigs to become unsafe that most fisheries have issue with I believe

In reply to Post #10
So do leadfree leaders not kink?

In reply to Post #11
So do leadfree leaders not kink?

Not in my experience, but I prefer to use 30lb fluoro such as Gardner Mirage.

In reply to Post #12
Sorry there's some double negatives going on here. To be clear, in your experience, leadfree leaders DONT kink. Whilst I did read all of your post on the dangers of leadcore it was a lot of information to process and I feel I need to reread some of it to establish what exactly about leadcore makes it dangerous. Was it the weight of it or the fact it gets kinks in it which makes it dangerous?

Thanks for all this Ken. This is very helpful stuff for a newcomer to learn as the fishes health is top of my priorities.

In reply to Post #12
I have just reread the dangers of leadcore and have familiarised myself with what makes leadcore dangerous. Correct me if Im wrong, but put simply, its the fact that it has a tendency to pick up and carry debris because its heavy and can kink or even worse the core can split the sheath and form a hinge.

I think I will buy both these leadfree heli leaders https://www.anglingdirect.co.uk/fox-edges-camo-submerge-kwik-change-heli-rigs? and the gardner mirage and compare the two

In reply to Post #5
Is that lighter and doesnt kink?

In reply to Post #14
Or you could do away with leaders all together and either go naked on the mainline or grab one of the new tubing heli kits from korda now it's been made safe and re released.

In reply to Post #16
If I used the Gardner mirage wouldn't that be classed as naked. I think it's handy to know if I'm naked or not for risk of indecent exposure

In reply to Post #17
It would but if you've got a decent tough, sinking mainline I think you don't really need a separate leader therfore eliminating the knot which can be a weak spot if that makes sense

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything but.....does anyone else feel like they ‘miss' fish on a heli setup? I'm not sure why but I feel like I am. I wonder if it is because there is not so much direct contact with the lead when the hookbait is taken? I'm probably paranoid but I'd be very interested to know other people's opinions. I mainly fish a Stiff Hinge Rig on this setup

Cheers, Scotty

In reply to Post #19
Not missing, but I certainly had far more come off whilst playing them than using lead clips. It was incredibly noticeable

In reply to Post #20
I'm guessing you wasn't dropping the lead? Have you now gone back to leads clips?

In reply to Post #21
Definitely not dropping the lead , totally dangerous thing to do with Heli setups. And yeah went straight back to leadclips. Only time I will use a Heli now is if a leader is needed

In reply to Post #22
I only want to use a heli setup to increase my confidence in my hookbait presenting well on lake beds I'm not familiar with. I think a chod rig would also work in this regards, but it looks a bit too blatant in presentation compared to a spinner rig presentation which sits more subtlety just off the bottom.

What rig do you use when your not sure of the lake bed?

In reply to Post #19
I stopped using heli rigs for this reason. I think they are only effective if you have the top and bottom beads as close together as possible, and fish a very tight line.

In reply to Post #23
The best thing is to get familiar with the lake bed rather than just chucking a rig on that you think will be ok.a quick feel around with a lead should give you all the info you need. Don't get too caught up in all the rig stuff, honestly so many people over complicate carp fishing it's unreal. I used to be right into playing around with all these rigs and I've learnt that they really aren't necessary for the vast majority of fishing . A nice simple knotless knot bottom bait rig, or a multi rig popup on a leadclip or running setup will cover 99% of what the average water requires.a little lead about, pick your spot, and for bottom bait rigs a tiny pva stick to stop the hook getting snagged up on anything , and you are good to go.

In reply to Post #25
I make you right. I'm definitely guilty of falling into that trap and probably changing things unnecessarily. I do like to try new things but very rarely does it improve my catch rates or indeed better the older methods that have caught me fish originally

At worst I'm fishing in heavy silt. Not entirely sure that warrants using a heli setup anyway

In reply to Post #22
Surely no more dangerous than a conventional lead clip set up?

In reply to Post #27
It is if you are using any form of leader

In reply to Post #28
His point is if you using a leader on both, whats the difference with what the fish is left with?

In reply to Post #29
And my point is, if using a leader with a leadclip you're an idiot . Heli setups set properly(i e not dropping the lead) means the fish is left with nothing more than a hooklink, with a clip or running setup it has no chance to drop the leader as it's tied to the hooklink. It's been said a ton of times here already on other threads as I'm sure you've read yourself

In reply to Post #30
Yes. So if you are using a leader, neither is more dangerous.

In reply to Post #31
No, using a clip or running setup is far more dangerous. It's also very obvious

In reply to Post #32
How is it very obvious

Whats the difference between a leadclip with leader, a running rig witha leader and a helicopter witha leader that has dropped the lead?

In reply to Post #33
Nothing between those. As I wrote earlier when a Heli is used properly (NOT dropping the lead) ,that is the safest way to fish a leader. If you want to use a leader, use a Heli with the lead fixed. Nothing else is a where near as safe when using leaders.
Using leaders with anything other that that setup is foolish and dangerous.

In reply to Post #34
This may not go down well but hey its my opinion.

I wonder what % of fish actually fall foul to a leader still being on after a break off, I bet its negligible. Yet for some reason people keep banging on about it . I've always used leaders and in my fishing id say 90% also do in some form, never cracked off using one and never snapped off with a fish on, so to me I see its as such a minimal risk, I do not see the issue. If they are allowed then use them if you want and if the fishery bans then follow their rules. As with all carp fishing now, people like moaning and have nothing else in their lives. (not aimed at anyone in particular)

lets compare to something else, I bet quite a few blokes on here have a couple of beers and then drive, the risk of crashing and killing someone is higher right but you make that decision. This could also be classed as being foolish and dangerous, along with lots of other every days things. but we take a risk, its in our nature to do so.

I would say the risk of a a carp dying or being damaged by use of a leader is extremely low when looking at the entire uk carp population. More chance of a carp dying due to distress of being caught and handled etc but we still go fishing don't we.

This is just my view on it.

In reply to Post #35
So you're comparing it to drink driving but saying it's ok in your book?

Edit: I do use leaders, but that is one strange analogy mate

In reply to Post #36
it is a bit extreme I know lol
maybe drinking and fishing in general may have been better ha
its about the risk of something happening.

In reply to Post #35
That's a very strange outlook. And a very poor one too, especially your comparison to drink driving. People who do that are ****s. Why do you use leaders for most of your fishing? Is it because the situation warrants it? Or just for the sake of it? Don't get me wrong I'll use them ,but only when needed and then set up the safest possible way,which is the one I've mentioned. Not sure what to make of your comment about moaning and having nothing in their lives. Very weird assumption. Some of us just aren't blasé when it comes to fish care

In reply to Post #33
A heli is the only set up that 'in theory' leaves the fish with ONLY the hooklink, therefore it is the safest option with a leader (if fished without dropping the lead)

A leadclip, or running lead set up will ALWAYS leave the fish towing the hooking AND the leader, regardless of dropping the lead or not.

In reply to Post #38
As I said its my view, I just choose to use leaders as the risk of a carp dying or being damaged is negligible. why do I use a leader? in my experience:

1. prevents tangle
2. helps with concealment
3. better when playing fish (against fish flanks as opposed to thinner mono)
4. more abrasion in weed, mussels, bars etc.

and these positives outweigh the chance of a leader killing or damaging a carp.

In reply to Post #40
So nothing a bit of rig tubing doesn't fix? Other than the abrasion thing which lets be honest really isn't an issue on the majority of waters. And for most anglers I'd guess(pray) that they actually saw getting a tangle or having a slightly blatant rig as far less of an issue than tethering and potentially killing a carp.

In reply to Post #16
Leaders are banned on my club waters, and this seems to becoming more wide spread. I use lead clips with tubing, as do most others. I would use this new heli kit if the silt was deep enough to make a heli necessary. However I would always set it up so I did not drop the lead. As I said in a previous post I would have to set the lower and upper beads at the depth of the silt and fish a tight line as I have found in the past that fish get away with rejecting the bait more easily unless the travel is limited and the line is tight. Obviously fish do get caught with a long gap between beads and slacker lines but I think that is less efficient.

In reply to Post #41
How much safer is tubing that a soft supple leader really?

90% of crack offs leave a curly pig tail on the line, if your tubing slides up the line its getting jammed 10ft up the line. At least the leader stays put.

The only safe rig is the one without a hook.

In reply to Post #43
Well it can come off because it's not actually tied on so rather a lot safer as there is the probability it will come off. With a leader thats impossible unless using a Heli with the lead still attached. And with the curly pig tail you mentioned, if the lead is still attached it will act as an anchor point and therefore the pig tail has a chance of sliding through said tubing
I agree that the only safe rig is the one without a hook, but that's not much use when angling is it? As anglers we have a responsibility to fish in the safest way possible, and using leaders unnecessarily, and in the dangerous way some of you seem to like, just ain't being responsible.

In reply to Post #44
So a cracked off lead clip, dumped the lead, and leaves the fish trailing hooklink with line and tubing. And you think the tubing has a high chance of sliding off the line?

Id put money that there is a higher chance that the tubing slides up the line and gets jammed, or jist stays put.

I in no way think that tubing is safer than a leader, and in fact in some situations can be more dangerous.

The second you crack off, or get cut off under tention, the chances are its leaving either a pig tail or a tangled mess, and it really wont take a lot to stop tubing sliding off, even jist the tiniest bit of weed or debris.

In reply to Post #45
Where did I say anything about dumping the lead? It's a daft practice and one which doesn't aid safety 99.9% of the time. Again if you actually read what I say properly you will see I've never once advocated dumping the lead which you seem to keep saying I do.

In reply to Post #46


Read what i said.

Using a lead clip. I dont think using tubing with a lead clip is any safer than using a leader with a lead clip.

Yes dumping the lead on a heli is rediculous, amd i think heli safes should be banned. But ive never once been talking about that.

In reply to Post #47
Really? Are you on a wind up? You said cracked off ,lead dumped. You. Not me!
If you honestly can't see the difference between a piece of tubing which has a chance to slide off the mainline, and a leader which is permanently fixed to the mainline so therefore can't be removed from the equation ,then you really do need to have a word with yourself

In reply to Post #48

Again ill ask you to re read what i said.

"In reply to Post #44
So a cracked off lead clip, dumped the lead"



Yes. And if that tubing slides up the line and then gets jammed, its far more dangerous than a leader that is fixed.

You are acting holier than thou, thinking your rigs are safer than everyone elses and anyone who uses certain rigs are "stupid" but im not sure you seem to grasp exactly why things are safe or unsafe, other than becaise other people have said they are.

In reply to Post #49
Yes, you wrote DUMPED THE LEAD. I didnt. Dumping the lead is daft. It's littering. You can keep trying to justify your bad angling practices as much as you want, it won't ever make it right. I did read what you said. And it clearly says about dumped leads. Something you keep mentioning tubing being unsafe with a dumped lead. I agree, but still less so than a leader as it has a possibility of coming off, and a leader doesnt. What's so hard for you to grasp ?

In reply to Post #50


So you use a lead clip and jam the tail rubber on?

In reply to Post #51
No. Really can you not grasp anything? The great things about leadclips is that you can use them to eject the lead when it becomes jammed up, but not on a take. Again, it's really not that hard to understand, although you're trying your best to make it seem so

In reply to Post #52
Yes. It ejects when it gets snagged up. Dumping the lead.but you dont dump the lead?

In reply to Post #53
When snagged up yes of course, but if the lead becomes snagged up and ejects then either the line is still good and you are still playing the fish, or the system has become stuck and the line has a chance to slide free from inside the tube and leave the fish free with just hooklink and mainline. Doesn't mean it happens every time, but there is a good chance it will. Unless your leaders can untie themselves then the fish can't get rid of them without ripping its own face to pieces tearing the hook out. Therefore, the clip system is far safer without a leader. Rocket science it is not

In reply to Post #54
You're assuming everyone is using a leader when using a helisafe, which they dont. When everything is equal, the helisafe is no more dangerous than a conventional lead clip set up, which over the years has set the bar for fish safety.

In reply to Post #55
No I'm not. I've never said that at all. Seriously are people incapable of reading simple English? When everything is equal, no they aren't all the same.and baring in mind the setups are completely different,how can they even be the same? They can't ! The major difference is the rig is attached to your leader by way of a knot or clip when using leaders ,therefore making it totally impossible for the leader to come free unless by some miracle your clip breaks or you get cut off right on the knot. I'm no statistician but I'd guess the likelihood of that happening would be about 1/10000000. By using a Heli your rig is only on the leader via the loop on the swivel, meaning that it is possible for the rig to slide up off of your leader, therefore leaving the fish with just the rig. Far from equal, wouldnt you say?

In reply to Post #56
Again you're assuming people are using a leader when using a helisafe, then comparing against a lead clip set up of just mainline.
So if you use a helisafe, with or without a leader and the line breaks, the fish will trail a rig, with line and maybe a leader.
If you use a lead clip, with or without a leader and the line breaks, the fish will trail a rig, mainline and maybe a leader, but also it will trail a lead, to me that seems slightly more dangerous than the helisafe.

In reply to Post #57
No, I just compared the closest possible comparison you can make using the 2 setups. Stop telling me what I'm assuming when I'm clearly not. You also missed the bit about the lead on the clip becoming snagged up on something and pulling free as it's supposed to. No more trailing the lead around. I'll put it in layman's terms for you shall I? With no leader then use the setup which you like,be it leadclip, running or Heli. There isn't a huge difference in the safety of them. When using a leader the use a Heli and keep the lead, as without it the leader has a very minimal (near on impossible) chance to come away from the rig itself. And leaving a fish towing round an abrasion resistant,very strong, very heavy leader is a death sentence. End of.

In reply to Post #58
You're the one writing about leaders, I'm just comparing apples with apples.
You also missed the bit where the line broke on a soulless bowl with no snags and the lead clip unable to get snagged on something and becoming useless. Also do you not think it's a little bit odd you have to get something snagged to be able to make it safe?? It is odd, let's be honest.
Again, you are completely miss that people use leaders with a lead clip set up, regardless if you lose the lead if the line snaps, the fish will still carry around the leader, exactly the same as the death set up of a helisafe. Obviously another point to add if it's a crack off then the helisafe acts normally and the rig slides off.
I'm not anti lead clip, 90 percent of my angling is done using them, but for me in my opinion the helisafe is no more dangerous than a lesd clip, and that'll do for me

In reply to Post #59
I'm not missing any point, I'm saying they may be using clips with leaders but they are being irresponsible. I too use clips for most of my angling, so I'm far from anti clip. Everything has its place and should be thought about with a lot more care than many seem to take.
And no I don't think that the lead becoming snagged before it comes off as being odd, and if it's in a snag less bowl then snagging up won't happen and therefore your point becomes irrelevant

In reply to Post #60
The snagless bowl scenario is an example where the fish would trail everything forever and a day, you cant say that is less dangerous than a helisafe setup.
Tbf I'm happy with either, and would chuck them both into the drink without hesitation, hey ho

I think Ip100 has competely missed the point here.

In that scinario, a snagless bowl, a naked helicopter with a helisafe would leave the fish trailing a hooklink and some line.

His lead clip with the tail rubber pushed on will leave the fish with the hooklink, line and a lead. But that's safer

In reply to Post #62
Oh ffs you really are being silly now

In reply to Post #62
When using a helicopter rig, a fish should be able to dislodge the top bead using the weight of the lead only and shaking its head a little. If that isnt achievable, the lead is too light or the top bead is too tight. Dropping the lead means this cannot be achieved.

It shouldnt be relying on snags etc

In reply to Post #64
Yes. Of course. I know how a helicopter rig works. But you are missing the point.

What is the difference between a cracked off helocopter rig that has dropped the lead, and so the top bead can no longer be dislodged.

And a cracked off lead clip that has dropped the lead?

In reply to Post #65
Very little in theory. But the safety aspect of a helicopter rig is one of the more important factors of it, and removing that safety aspect defeats the object of it really. Your much better off with alternative set ups

In reply to Post #66
Yes exactly.

I would never use a heli safe, but Its laughable that people say that dropping the lead on a helocopter rig is a death rig, when the reality is, it leaves it exactly the same as every other rig ever.

In reply to Post #67
I agree 100%

In reply to Post #67
It's an interesting debate for sure. And I can see both sides of the argument. Every time we put a rig in the water, there is an element of risk attached. In one way the helisafe eliminates some risk, in others it can cause unnecessary risk. But as you say, the unnecessary risk is no greater than any set up used. It just in my opinion, defeats the object of a helicopter rig, other than for presentation.

Keith Moore was then and is now 100% right in his stance against the evil stuff...That is all

In reply to Post #69
We can only use what we hope to be the best. In theory a helicopter with a fixed lead is the safest. But you only have to crack off and end up with a birds nest up the line slightly larger than the swivel ring, and that hooklink isn't coming off, leaving the fish trailing a far more dangerous contraption than most other rigs.

In reply to Post #70
What's the evil stuff??

In reply to Post #72
Lead core I think, u know the stuff all the top companies sell and most of the top anglers use, lol.

In reply to Post #73
could argue the act of hooking them with a sharp hook and heavy lead and dragging them in is evil also. As well as being man handled on the bank, even it is with utter care. Still will cause distress to more carp ever than the amount carp distressed by the use of leaders.

In reply to Post #67
You are missing the point slightly.

A helicopter set-up relies on the weight staying on for the hooklink (rig) to be able to be ejected off the leader or mainline. The lead catches, rig pulls off the other end.
With no lead attached, the broken line, be that leader or mainline, the rig will just 'stick' in the middle of the broken line, unable to come off either end as the line trails either side..

You then have a fish trailing line and rig which can potentially snag up should it swim round an obstacle.

Adding Leaders to any set-up is increasing the potential for tethering, whether using lead clips (horrible things, the spawn of the Devil himself😖😆😉 , run rings or helicopter attachments.
To my mind you should only use leaders when the water is snag and mostly weed free. If there are any snags or heavy weed then accept you can't use a leader and can't cast as far.
A run ring on a leader Should allow the lead to come off the end. The run ring will come off the broken end, getting over most bounceback loops, tangles and knots. A lead clip must be able to eject the lead.
The lead clip itself should be fitted tightly to hooklink swivel, unable to come free, but must eject the lead.

If there is no weight on the rig, the carp can eject, from its lips, even a deeply buried hook, leaving the rig on the lakebed. Ken Townley has mentioned this in articles and a chapter in Tim Paisley's Big Carp. Add any weight (fixed lead), or even weed jammed or trapped on the leadclip and the weight holds the hook in place.

In reply to Post #75
not another person.

Yes. We all know how a helicopter works and why it is safe when used correctly.

But when it is used incorrectly, by dropping the lead, what makes it any more unsafe than any other rig?

In reply to Post #76
Exactly, this isnt about the set up of it, it's about what happens when stuff goes wrong, and people seem to be using leaders as leverage to their argument for some strange reason 🤦‍♂️

I think this may be an age thing. Old timers like me and Keith and others have been around to see what happens when LC is misused. The carp tigers have probably seen the end result of our anti-LC labours and set up correctly, hence no further problems***








































888And if you believe that you'll believe that LC is totally safe. Over and OUT!

In reply to Post #78
I've never got around to using lead core, never found a need for it.

In reply to Post #78
Again not sure why people keep bring leaders into the equation 🤷‍♂️

In reply to Post #80
The question is why do people use leaders

Just off to get my popcorn 🍿

In reply to Post #76
You are arguing a point that nobody is arguing against?! I think some need to re read this thread properly and take in what's being written

In reply to Post #83
No. You yourself said

Post #21
Definitely not dropping the lead , totally dangerous thing to do with Heli setups.

But you STILL haven't explained why it is any more dangerous than any other rig?

Yes, it stops it being the safest rig, but what makes it more dangerous than your lead clip rig with the tail rubber pushed on tightly?

In reply to Post #84
And Ive never said I use lead clips and push the tail rubber on tightly! FFS read the thread. I've explained countless times, as have others. You either are choosing to ignore it ,or just can't grasp what is being said.

In reply to Post #85
You haven't explained it once. No one has.

People jist keep regurgitating the fact that that a helicopter needs the lead to pull the top bead off. We know that.

But if it doesnt have the lead, why is it any more dangerous than any other rig?

First of all you told me your lead clip doesnt dump the lead, and then you told me it does dump the lead. You're very confusing.

In reply to Post #87
Only if you are a bit simple....

In reply to Post #88
Nothing says "i dont know the answer to your question" quite like a childish insult.

In reply to Post #89
FFS I answered your question regarding my clip and tail rubber. But I will spell it out for you one last time. The tail rubber is put on enough so it doesnt dump the lead of its own accord (ie on the take) , but not so firm as it wont allow the lead to come off if it becomes snagged up. That is about as plain and simple as I can make it for you, if you can't understand that(which is what I already wrote in different words) then there's not a lot more I can do to help you grasp what I've been saying

In reply to Post #86
This question ffs.


But if it doesnt have the lead, why is it any more dangerous than any other rig?

In reply to Post #90
But. Whilst youve said this. I would not call this a safe rig at all. In the event of a crack off, the fish is trailing the lead around with it in the hope that the lead gets snagged up amd only then can it eject the lead. How on earth can you think this is safe

In reply to Post #91
You say in post 87 I'm confusing you , I'm explain in layman's terms, and now that wasn't what you were asking? Oh dear God give me strength.

Right, with a lead a naked system,whatever it may be, will generally be safer than one using a leader(assuming it is set up and used correctly )
If using a Heli with a leader, then you must have the lead fixed to make it as safe as possible(assuming it is set up and used correctly)
If using a Heli without a leader then it will be no more or less safe than other systems without using a leader. (assuming that it is set up and used correctly)
If using leadclips or running leads with a leader then that is dangerous and cannot be used safely
If using tubing with a Heli then the same rules apply as to using a leader with them
If using tubing on a clip then the lead being on will work as an anchor like it would with a Heli, and give the chance of the tubing to slide off of the mainline , if the lead happens to get snagged up before that happens then the clip does its job, drops the lead, and therefore frees the line. (Assuming that it is set up and used correctly)

No rigs are 100% fail proof, any rig can cause problems which on occasion are out of out control as we as anglers can't control what goes on under the water .

In reply to Post #92
So a rig can't be safe unless you drop the lead,no? Unless it's a naked Heli ?

In reply to Post #93
Thats an awful lot of words to tell me i was right.

A helicopter with a helisafe that dumps the lead is no more or no less safe than a leadclip rig that dumps the lead.

At least the helisafe rig leaves the fish trailing just the line and hooklink. The lead clip rig you use leaves them trailing the hooklink, line, and a lead, unless it gets "lucky" and gets snagged up.

For the record i wouldnt use either of those rigs. Leader or no leader.

In reply to Post #95
No, because the helisafe rig has dropped the lead and lost its anchor. Your words have just proved yourself wrong !

Im not entirely sure a 20ft leader being towed around, is anymore dangerous than a 20 foot bit of mainline. In fact a heavy mono leader is surely less likely to get snagged and wrapped around stuff as its less supple.

I think the question raised is fair, and not sure it requires the frustrated responses.

Yes a heli set up is safest if used correctly. Think we all get that now.

What he is asking, is why the absolute hate for dropping the lead on a heli system. Yes its not ideal and defeats the object of the rig safety wise. But is you get cut off playing a fish, with either a leadclip set up, or a heli set up, bath having discharged the lead any different. Both rigs are now towing line. The line being towed is no more dangerous on either set up.

Yes if the lead had stayed on the heli would be safer. In the event of a crack off it would work the same as a normal heli set up.

In reply to Post #96


So whats the difference? The fish is still trailing line it now can't get rid of. I dont understand what you think the difference is?

In reply to Post #97
Thank you. Finally someome who understands

In reply to Post #97
Surely the mainline is far safer than the leader? A bit of say 15lb mono has a far better chance of being broken or cut or simply not getting so snagged up as say for instance a 30lb armacord leader, or 45lb leadcore leader? Agreed either getting left attached to a fish isnt good whatsoever , but sometimes these things do happen and are out of our control(cut off on an unknown snag or similar) . Others it's down to stupidity (crack offs) which realistically shouldn't happen if the angler is using the correct kit for the job

The hate for lead dropping is 2 fold. 1 is when using a rig, surely you use it in the safest way possible. And on a Heli, that means keeping the lead. And 2 ,dumping leads unnecessarily is littering and a fad to sell more leads, regardless of what rig it was attached to.

In reply to Post #98
You have just written "at least the helisafe only leaves the fish with the hooklink", which by your own words it doesnt as the anchor is gone . The only time that happens is in the event of a crack offs and then the fish pick up the bait, gets hooked, and moves away in the correct direction to stop the helisafe dropping the lead

I don't use Heli setups if I can help it, in my experience you lose too many fish on them to hookpulls , and hooks don't just fall out the same way they went in when under tension ,so tear out causing damage ,which is another safety aspect to consider . Hence using a clip setup . For me it's the safest all-round way considering the different ways in which damage can be caused

So leeroy, what rigs do you use then? If the leadclip setup which I and thousands of others use is so unsafe,I'd love to know.

In reply to Post #101
When did i say that?

In reply to Post #102
Apologies,I did misread your post and didn't see the "and line" bit a couple of posts ago

In reply to Post #103
Fair enough.

In reply to Post #104
Thanks for your help , think ill freeline saying that thay bite us off

If all you guys are soooo concerned with fish safety (cough) , then just use a barbless hook.
Whatever rig you're using and above it (leader, knots etc. ), the fish can get away, end of.

In reply to Post #106
Not used a barbed hook for 35 years...

In reply to Post #107
Me neither.

In reply to Post #107
Did the rigs that you found using leadcore that harmed carp use barbless hooks too?

In reply to Post #106
And rip their mouths to bits??? No thanks

In reply to Post #109
No.

In reply to Post #111
Nice profile pic Ken

Hope you get out fishing in France soon

In reply to Post #112