Came across this video and it illustrates perfectly how dropping the lead on a helicopter lead setup is actually worse for fish safety
Helicopter rig safety
Helicopter rig safety
In reply to Post #1
That vid has been around for a while now, it's a shame more haven't seen it though. The amount of people on here that still advocate dropping leads on heli setups is rediculous
That vid has been around for a while now, it's a shame more haven't seen it though. The amount of people on here that still advocate dropping leads on heli setups is rediculous
In reply to Post #1
cant see why people are so fixated with dropping leads anyway.
cant see why people are so fixated with dropping leads anyway.
In reply to Post #3
Because it's necessary apparently
Because it's necessary apparently
In reply to Post #4
I never drop leads myself. If someone is fishing a spot that requires them to drop the lead then that spot is most likely an unsafe spot to be fishing.
I never drop leads myself. If someone is fishing a spot that requires them to drop the lead then that spot is most likely an unsafe spot to be fishing.
In reply to Post #5
Exactly that. People trying to justify fishing in areas that shouldn't be fished. Doesn't help with all of the free vids etc that are about these days with everyone dropping every lead all the time. Funny how it's always tackle manufacturers that show this though...
Exactly that. People trying to justify fishing in areas that shouldn't be fished. Doesn't help with all of the free vids etc that are about these days with everyone dropping every lead all the time. Funny how it's always tackle manufacturers that show this though...
In reply to Post #1
You do no you can stop your lead dropping on a Korda heli safe sleeve.
You do no you can stop your lead dropping on a Korda heli safe sleeve.
In reply to Post #7
I don't use Korda heli safes, strange name for a product that when used as intended is the least safe.
I don't use Korda heli safes, strange name for a product that when used as intended is the least safe.
In reply to Post #8
Heli unsafe
Heli unsafe
In reply to Post #7
I use the Nash jobbies with the silicone above the lead, It acts as buffer for lunging fish
I use the Nash jobbies with the silicone above the lead, It acts as buffer for lunging fish
In reply to Post #9
Exactly
Exactly
I've said on other threads how dropping the lead with heli rigs are bad so I won't go into much detail about it. If the lead drops off, there is no resistance for the fish to supposedly pull the rig off the leader. I have seen that video, maybe a few years ago and it enlightened me on how dropping the lead on a heli is a bad idea. Never dropped one since on that rig.
In reply to Post #1
Can I ask, the video is saying about the lead core, or a leader for that matter, coming away from the hook link when you lock the lead in place. Ace, cool, perfect.
What about inline lead core set ups, lead safety clip set up, cog lead set up, inline drop off. Surely all are designed to drop the lead if snagged, but if your hooklink is on a leader of any type then they are all bad.
Can I ask, the video is saying about the lead core, or a leader for that matter, coming away from the hook link when you lock the lead in place. Ace, cool, perfect.
What about inline lead core set ups, lead safety clip set up, cog lead set up, inline drop off. Surely all are designed to drop the lead if snagged, but if your hooklink is on a leader of any type then they are all bad.
In reply to Post #13
I agree if your line breaks due to a snag or crack off if your set up allows for the lead to disingage on any system you are still left with a rig and leader and length of line either attached to a fish or waiting for a fish to attach itself. You could use tubing and dispense with the leader but you still have line and rig out there.
How can a helicopter rig that drops the lead be any worse than a lead clip rig that drops the lead.
Even running rigs leave a fish attached to rig, leader if used, and line.
A helicopter rig with fixed heavy lead and a way for the rig to disingage is the safest option and is my go to rig.
However it is not suitable to all angling scenarios, weed between the fishing spot and the bank being the obvious one, in these situations I use a rig that drops the lead, the actual set up being the one I think will get most hook ups in the situation I'm fishing, be that lead clip, drop off in line or helicopter, they all result in the same effect if something goes wrong.
I agree if your line breaks due to a snag or crack off if your set up allows for the lead to disingage on any system you are still left with a rig and leader and length of line either attached to a fish or waiting for a fish to attach itself. You could use tubing and dispense with the leader but you still have line and rig out there.
How can a helicopter rig that drops the lead be any worse than a lead clip rig that drops the lead.
Even running rigs leave a fish attached to rig, leader if used, and line.
A helicopter rig with fixed heavy lead and a way for the rig to disingage is the safest option and is my go to rig.
However it is not suitable to all angling scenarios, weed between the fishing spot and the bank being the obvious one, in these situations I use a rig that drops the lead, the actual set up being the one I think will get most hook ups in the situation I'm fishing, be that lead clip, drop off in line or helicopter, they all result in the same effect if something goes wrong.
In reply to Post #13
spot on. I would say that the only safe option is a naked heli setup where by the top bead dissolves after a certain time frame maybe (patent pending)? and therefore allows the hooklink to be the only thing attached to the carp.
I think the pb hit and run system is very good on paper, dont know how effective it is in a real life situation however.
All other methods are potentially unsafe as the carp will always be trailing some sort of line.
spot on. I would say that the only safe option is a naked heli setup where by the top bead dissolves after a certain time frame maybe (patent pending)? and therefore allows the hooklink to be the only thing attached to the carp.
I think the pb hit and run system is very good on paper, dont know how effective it is in a real life situation however.
All other methods are potentially unsafe as the carp will always be trailing some sort of line.
In reply to Post #13
Yes they are, which is why if leaders are needed then they should only be used on a Heli setup with a lead which doesn't drop off. Dropping leads on the take is daft and unnecessary and sing littering. It's nothing more than a far started by companies to sell more leads .
Yes they are, which is why if leaders are needed then they should only be used on a Heli setup with a lead which doesn't drop off. Dropping leads on the take is daft and unnecessary and sing littering. It's nothing more than a far started by companies to sell more leads .
In reply to Post #15
Even with naked heli setups, it only takes a tiny bit of weed to stop the hook link coming off the line.
But there is no truly safe setup, you can only do so much or give up!
Even with naked heli setups, it only takes a tiny bit of weed to stop the hook link coming off the line.
But there is no truly safe setup, you can only do so much or give up!
In reply to Post #13
In reply to Post #1
Can I ask, the video is saying about the lead core, or a leader for that matter, coming away from the hook link when you lock the lead in place. Ace, cool, perfect.
What about inline lead core set ups, lead safety clip set up, cog lead set up, inline drop off. Surely all are designed to drop the lead if snagged, but if your hooklink is on a leader of any type then they are all bad.
I argued the toss with Advanced Carp Fishing magazine years ago about pendant (running or lead clip) and inline set-ups incorporating leadcore that the leadcore itself is the risk in this case. The leadcore itself provides the weight, it always trails, even if the lead falls free. A trailing length of leadcore is a potential tether rig, it does catch up on snags, branches, even weed.
It was not just 'Nick arguing for the sake of arguing', as the editor insinuated, it was after I had lost a decent fish at Suffolk Water Park that cut me off above the leadcore on a running lead and so I experimented with various set-ups on leadcore, in a particular shallowish water, where if there was a problem, I could retrieve fish and tackle. I did have to go out chest deep to remove a fish tethered in snags in the middle of winter!
I came to the conclusion, that near any weed or snags, or in waters containing them, you should not be using a leader at all. If you fish in such situations that you need a shock or snag leader, should you really be fishing there?
A helicopter set-up on leadcore, mainline or leader relies on the lead staying in place for the rig to eject over the top of the leader knot or break-off, however, a jammed bead, caught on a twist or kink, even weeded up on leadcore can prevent the rig coming free.
I am not even keen on lead clips, they are too easily misused, for allowing the lead to fall off when there is no need, but even jamming the lead on totally, by pushing the rubber all the way up, or even gluing it in place, as some have done. Even the small bore of a lead clip can jam on a break if it concertina's and knots up, or fail to pass over a leader knot.
I much prefer going to a large bore run ring, which can get over either.
The most you want a fish trailing (which they can eject normally) is just the rig.
In reply to Post #1
Can I ask, the video is saying about the lead core, or a leader for that matter, coming away from the hook link when you lock the lead in place. Ace, cool, perfect.
What about inline lead core set ups, lead safety clip set up, cog lead set up, inline drop off. Surely all are designed to drop the lead if snagged, but if your hooklink is on a leader of any type then they are all bad.
I argued the toss with Advanced Carp Fishing magazine years ago about pendant (running or lead clip) and inline set-ups incorporating leadcore that the leadcore itself is the risk in this case. The leadcore itself provides the weight, it always trails, even if the lead falls free. A trailing length of leadcore is a potential tether rig, it does catch up on snags, branches, even weed.
It was not just 'Nick arguing for the sake of arguing', as the editor insinuated, it was after I had lost a decent fish at Suffolk Water Park that cut me off above the leadcore on a running lead and so I experimented with various set-ups on leadcore, in a particular shallowish water, where if there was a problem, I could retrieve fish and tackle. I did have to go out chest deep to remove a fish tethered in snags in the middle of winter!
I came to the conclusion, that near any weed or snags, or in waters containing them, you should not be using a leader at all. If you fish in such situations that you need a shock or snag leader, should you really be fishing there?
A helicopter set-up on leadcore, mainline or leader relies on the lead staying in place for the rig to eject over the top of the leader knot or break-off, however, a jammed bead, caught on a twist or kink, even weeded up on leadcore can prevent the rig coming free.
I am not even keen on lead clips, they are too easily misused, for allowing the lead to fall off when there is no need, but even jamming the lead on totally, by pushing the rubber all the way up, or even gluing it in place, as some have done. Even the small bore of a lead clip can jam on a break if it concertina's and knots up, or fail to pass over a leader knot.
I much prefer going to a large bore run ring, which can get over either.
The most you want a fish trailing (which they can eject normally) is just the rig.
I think we can all agree that any rig is dangerous to the carp, it's just a question of how dangerous we make it. No rig is fully safe. Tbh do we want the carp dragging along anything wether that be line or lead core or tubing as such? I think the best we can do is make our rigs as safe as possible and/or don't make bad decisions like fishing towards snags that you could lose a fish in or any other situation that a bad decision would put the carp in danger that we don't want to put it in.
I'd just like to add any leader or piece of tubing just makes the rig more dangerous, so if you can dispense with all the kerfuffle. Simple rigs catch carp and will save you money because you don't need to buy things like leaders or any extra bits.
I'd just like to add any leader or piece of tubing just makes the rig more dangerous, so if you can dispense with all the kerfuffle. Simple rigs catch carp and will save you money because you don't need to buy things like leaders or any extra bits.
In reply to Post #13
Your right If you snap off with any leader (other than loose fit rig tubing) on any lead setup other than a helicopter setup (with the lead set to not drop off) then effectively you actual rig length is from the end of your leader to the hook.
Never thought of it like that I'll be changing to rig tubing or naked only from now on
Your right
If you snap off with any leader (other than loose fit rig tubing) on any lead setup other than a helicopter setup (with the lead set to not drop off) then effectively you actual rig length is from the end of your leader to the hook.Never thought of it like that I'll be changing to rig tubing or naked only from now on
In reply to Post #20
But, as mentioned, it doesn't take much to stop the hook length coming off on a naked setup.
Safest setup is 20lb mainline and an 8lb hook length.......
But, as mentioned, it doesn't take much to stop the hook length coming off on a naked setup.
Safest setup is 20lb mainline and an 8lb hook length.......
In reply to Post #21
I agree. Any hooklink that is weaker than the mainline is definately better then one that is stronger. Don't know why this has become a trend in carp fishing as in many other forms of fishing the hooklink is the majority of the time weaker than the mainline...
I agree. Any hooklink that is weaker than the mainline is definately better then one that is stronger. Don't know why this has become a trend in carp fishing as in many other forms of fishing the hooklink is the majority of the time weaker than the mainline...
In reply to Post #22
Probably because modern h ooklinks in 15lb would be like cheesewire, so people use stronger b.s. to get thicker hooklinks. Or because they are fishing in more extreme spots than we would have done years ago.
Probably because modern h ooklinks in 15lb would be like cheesewire, so people use stronger b.s. to get thicker hooklinks. Or because they are fishing in more extreme spots than we would have done years ago.
In reply to Post #23
But the hook link is unlikely to come into contact with any of these “extreme” things, being only 4-8” ish long. And we didn't see loads of moiety damage when we did use low bs mono/braids as hooklengths. But then braids tended to be flat.
Agree on the potential cheese wire effect with round braids though, but surely wouldn't be difficult to produce a thick coating on a fine braid.
But the hook link is unlikely to come into contact with any of these “extreme” things, being only 4-8” ish long. And we didn't see loads of moiety damage when we did use low bs mono/braids as hooklengths. But then braids tended to be flat.
Agree on the potential cheese wire effect with round braids though, but surely wouldn't be difficult to produce a thick coating on a fine braid.
In reply to Post #23
Surley this would only happen with a fine diameter braid? Matchmen use very light hooklengths even when fishing for low double figure carp, and thats with mono. I highly doubt that a light mono would cause a cheeswire effect. But I understand that a light braid might have that effect but to solve that you could just use a coated one? Big fish can be landed on light tackle, its just a question of how careful you are playing the fish, with the rod and not pulling too hard, and the reel by letting the fish take line when it wants to. The only risk about this is that there might be snags about, but in that situation you would normally use a stronger line to be able to get the fish out. So maybe its also a question about how safe you are fishing, and not making bad decisions that could put the fish in danger.
Surley this would only happen with a fine diameter braid? Matchmen use very light hooklengths even when fishing for low double figure carp, and thats with mono. I highly doubt that a light mono would cause a cheeswire effect. But I understand that a light braid might have that effect but to solve that you could just use a coated one? Big fish can be landed on light tackle, its just a question of how careful you are playing the fish, with the rod and not pulling too hard, and the reel by letting the fish take line when it wants to. The only risk about this is that there might be snags about, but in that situation you would normally use a stronger line to be able to get the fish out. So maybe its also a question about how safe you are fishing, and not making bad decisions that could put the fish in danger.
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