Hi, I'm going to be using a seaguar flouro leader and was wondering if the albright knot is the best knot for these two materials, i know its rated highly for joining braid to flouro but what about 15lb mono to flouro ? Cheers for any advice
In reply to Post #1
Albright for me, no problems
Use it for my mono to Fluro leaders, nice little compact knot
Used it with Seaguar in various strains in the past, 25lb, 30, 35. Goes without saying, the bigger the diameter the bigger the knot. I used 25lb for leaders for a while, found it perfect
Albright for me, no problems
Use it for my mono to Fluro leaders, nice little compact knot
Used it with Seaguar in various strains in the past, 25lb, 30, 35. Goes without saying, the bigger the diameter the bigger the knot. I used 25lb for leaders for a while, found it perfect
In reply to Post #1
I'm using the Mahin knot. It has the advantage that both tag ends come out at the same side
I'm using the Mahin knot. It has the advantage that both tag ends come out at the same side
Hi, thanks for replys, what would be the best knot for tying the flouro leader to the swivel , thanks again
In reply to Post #4
For the flouro leader to the swivel i just use a palomar knot simple and strong, joining the mainline to the leader i have used both knots already mentioned i prefer the albright as i feel it is a stronger knot
For the flouro leader to the swivel i just use a palomar knot simple and strong, joining the mainline to the leader i have used both knots already mentioned i prefer the albright as i feel it is a stronger knot
In reply to Post #5
Similar to me, palomar, used the 5 turn grinder for years, both reliable knots for mono and fluro for me. Key for me with all mainline knots is keeping them wet when pulling them up
Similar to me, palomar, used the 5 turn grinder for years, both reliable knots for mono and fluro for me. Key for me with all mainline knots is keeping them wet when pulling them up
So if you use a flouro leader then the knot from mainline to the leader will be too bulky to ensure any end tackle can pass over it.
Does this mean that you have to drop the lead every time, and do you use a lead clip or heli set up...
Does this mean that you have to drop the lead every time, and do you use a lead clip or heli set up...
In reply to Post #7
Me mate?
Nothing passes over it, I use a lead clip set up. No intention of losing the lead either, I use the ESP clips and find them perfect, occasionally you lose one but that's the joys of using lead clips. I used leadcore and helis for many years, went away from it, hooking potential is far better imho but that should tell you something
You raise a very valid point though, people should NOT be using helicopters with heavy nylon or fluro leaders for me, 45lb line can leave a massive knot! there are enough risks getting the bead and swivel off a normal heli leader. The Korda beads are a good idea but the rubbers don't last long, this leaves a swivel to pass over any knots, start with weed and it should be a definite no for anybody for me
Anybody who has fished a weedy water will know how long it can take to pick weed off lead set ups and hooks, especially blanket weed, get that on a knot and it is not coming off
From a fishing perspective I have always preferred a fluro leader. Out and out casting it would be a braid one for me. Mono and fluro leaders are not ideal due to the knot size like you mention, over the years I have cracked off a couple of times, not ashamed to say it, there is some learning for people, as there was for me. The knot MUST be below the line in front of it on the spool if that makes sense prior to casting otherwise the line WILL pick up on the knot at some point and can cause a crack off. And that's another reason why I use the lightest leader I can get away with when I use leaders, Seaguar in lower strains
I think it's a simple question for anybody that they should always ask themselves. if you mainline parts are you totally satisfied that the fish can swim away for another day. If so you can sleep comfortable on a night. If not you should not be doing what you doing
Me mate?
Nothing passes over it, I use a lead clip set up. No intention of losing the lead either, I use the ESP clips and find them perfect, occasionally you lose one but that's the joys of using lead clips. I used leadcore and helis for many years, went away from it, hooking potential is far better imho but that should tell you something
You raise a very valid point though, people should NOT be using helicopters with heavy nylon or fluro leaders for me, 45lb line can leave a massive knot! there are enough risks getting the bead and swivel off a normal heli leader. The Korda beads are a good idea but the rubbers don't last long, this leaves a swivel to pass over any knots, start with weed and it should be a definite no for anybody for me
Anybody who has fished a weedy water will know how long it can take to pick weed off lead set ups and hooks, especially blanket weed, get that on a knot and it is not coming off
From a fishing perspective I have always preferred a fluro leader. Out and out casting it would be a braid one for me. Mono and fluro leaders are not ideal due to the knot size like you mention, over the years I have cracked off a couple of times, not ashamed to say it, there is some learning for people, as there was for me. The knot MUST be below the line in front of it on the spool if that makes sense prior to casting otherwise the line WILL pick up on the knot at some point and can cause a crack off. And that's another reason why I use the lightest leader I can get away with when I use leaders, Seaguar in lower strains
I think it's a simple question for anybody that they should always ask themselves. if you mainline parts are you totally satisfied that the fish can swim away for another day. If so you can sleep comfortable on a night. If not you should not be doing what you doing
In reply to Post #8
So your flouro leader is a shock leader, with the knot from leader to mainline on the reel.
I know some guys use a short flouro leader as an alternative to leadcore, and use maybe 3-4ft.
Either way, there will be a big knot up the line that isnt going to let anything pass over.
Do you use a fixed lead clip, with the pin to lock it in place.
Im not sure how you'd set it up and then declare it safe.
So your flouro leader is a shock leader, with the knot from leader to mainline on the reel.
I know some guys use a short flouro leader as an alternative to leadcore, and use maybe 3-4ft.
Either way, there will be a big knot up the line that isnt going to let anything pass over.
Do you use a fixed lead clip, with the pin to lock it in place.
Im not sure how you'd set it up and then declare it safe.
In reply to Post #9
No, my fluro leader is around 5 foot long as you mention. Aside to this the Albright is tiny, that's why I use it
Nothing passes over it with a lead clip
ESP clips are pinned
You raise a valid point though, if the lead clip comes off the swivel it could be a trailer
Here's the problem, we have been down this route before. Anybody can walk into a shop, buy a load of gear and tie up what they want. That's why it was suggested that everything should come with instructions, VERY easy to get it wrong
In fact, there's an idea, fish safety videos should be on all suppliers website, videos how to use their products including shock leaders, I guess some do. Imagine if you could not get onto their site without watching a 2 minute video on rig safety. That might change a few mindsets
For the record. If you read my original post I was referring to Seaguar and shockleaders. I used these with helis. I use fox fluro in a lower stain than those for my normal 5 foot leaders
No, my fluro leader is around 5 foot long as you mention. Aside to this the Albright is tiny, that's why I use it
Nothing passes over it with a lead clip
ESP clips are pinned
You raise a valid point though, if the lead clip comes off the swivel it could be a trailer
Here's the problem, we have been down this route before. Anybody can walk into a shop, buy a load of gear and tie up what they want. That's why it was suggested that everything should come with instructions, VERY easy to get it wrong
In fact, there's an idea, fish safety videos should be on all suppliers website, videos how to use their products including shock leaders, I guess some do. Imagine if you could not get onto their site without watching a 2 minute video on rig safety. That might change a few mindsets
For the record. If you read my original post I was referring to Seaguar and shockleaders. I used these with helis. I use fox fluro in a lower stain than those for my normal 5 foot leaders
In reply to Post #10
It could also become a trailer when someone jams the dry tail rubber onto the dry lead clip because they dont want to loose the lead.
I have found trailers where the korda lead clip has the tail rubber jammed on (those ridges make it a terrible design) and where the coating has worn off the bottom of the lead and even some of the bottom of the lead has worn away.
Good point about a safety video.
Tackle companies are marketing on social media like never before yet when was the last big concerted push on rig safety...
It could also become a trailer when someone jams the dry tail rubber onto the dry lead clip because they dont want to loose the lead.
I have found trailers where the korda lead clip has the tail rubber jammed on (those ridges make it a terrible design) and where the coating has worn off the bottom of the lead and even some of the bottom of the lead has worn away.
Good point about a safety video.
Tackle companies are marketing on social media like never before yet when was the last big concerted push on rig safety...
In reply to Post #11
I agree that's the joys of using lead clips. Could be worse I have heard of people super gluing tail rubbers on in the past!
I know some people spit on the clip prior to fitting it, I don't, lake water
What do you use?
While ever people can buy what they want from a tackle shop and do what they want without guidance there will be risks. Sound to me like you have got your head screwed on right pal, thinking
I agree that's the joys of using lead clips. Could be worse I have heard of people super gluing tail rubbers on in the past!
I know some people spit on the clip prior to fitting it, I don't, lake water
What do you use?
While ever people can buy what they want from a tackle shop and do what they want without guidance there will be risks. Sound to me like you have got your head screwed on right pal, thinking
In reply to Post #12
I use a lead clip thats semi fixed onto the swivel, it can shake off (moderate resistance) and then becomes a running rig. If its heavy weed of snags i will fix the swivel in the lead clip to ensure the lead will discharge whe the fish hits the weed.
I fish this just on the mainline, sometimes with a short length (12") of tungsten tubing, or sometimes with 3ft of leadcore. If using leadcore i knot it to the swivel and needle knot it to the mainline so there is nothing to hinder the passage of the lead clip should it slide off the swivel and travel up the line.
I often net fish with the lead and leadclip swinging above the leadcore as its so easy for the leadclip to travel over the end of the leadcore but not as easy to drop back down to the swivel.
I use a lead clip thats semi fixed onto the swivel, it can shake off (moderate resistance) and then becomes a running rig. If its heavy weed of snags i will fix the swivel in the lead clip to ensure the lead will discharge whe the fish hits the weed.
I fish this just on the mainline, sometimes with a short length (12") of tungsten tubing, or sometimes with 3ft of leadcore. If using leadcore i knot it to the swivel and needle knot it to the mainline so there is nothing to hinder the passage of the lead clip should it slide off the swivel and travel up the line.
I often net fish with the lead and leadclip swinging above the leadcore as its so easy for the leadclip to travel over the end of the leadcore but not as easy to drop back down to the swivel.
In reply to Post #13
Your choice
Once my leaders are tied, that's if for a few months until I replace them. I wouldn't be swapping between different clips, pinned and non pinned clips. The ESP ones are brilliant for me. The best
As for leadcore, I would never use that with a clip but that's my choice, ditched leadcore altogether myself now.
What make of clip are you using?
Your choice
Once my leaders are tied, that's if for a few months until I replace them. I wouldn't be swapping between different clips, pinned and non pinned clips. The ESP ones are brilliant for me. The best
As for leadcore, I would never use that with a clip but that's my choice, ditched leadcore altogether myself now.
What make of clip are you using?
In reply to Post #14
Some old nash ones, they have the hole in the side for tying some line through if you want to lock the swivel in place. They pre-date the ones with pins.
I also have some older nash ones with no hole, and i use a nut drill to male a hole when needed.
More importantly, the section the tail rubber pushes on to is smooth.
Some old nash ones, they have the hole in the side for tying some line through if you want to lock the swivel in place. They pre-date the ones with pins.
I also have some older nash ones with no hole, and i use a nut drill to male a hole when needed.
More importantly, the section the tail rubber pushes on to is smooth.
In reply to Post #15
Tried quite a few, settled with the ESP ones. Took a while after fishing helis for so long pal
The fox ones were decent too
Not seen the Nash ones
Tried quite a few, settled with the ESP ones. Took a while after fishing helis for so long pal
The fox ones were decent too
Not seen the Nash ones
In reply to Post #8
I think I understand what you are saying. In this case if the mainline parts above the leader you are happy that the fish will be left towing the leader, clip, hooklink and quite possibly the lead.
I think I understand what you are saying. In this case if the mainline parts above the leader you are happy that the fish will be left towing the leader, clip, hooklink and quite possibly the lead.
In reply to Post #17
The rig police are out today
So, I would expect the clip to drop the lead, couple of shakes they usually come off, that's lead clip fishing. That would then leave a fish with a rig, lead clip and a length of line to shed. Standard for a fixed lead clip set up?
What set up are you using then?
The rig police are out today
So, I would expect the clip to drop the lead, couple of shakes they usually come off, that's lead clip fishing. That would then leave a fish with a rig, lead clip and a length of line to shed. Standard for a fixed lead clip set up?
What set up are you using then?
In reply to Post #18
If I'm using any kind of leader I always use a helicopter rig with Korda no trace beads. This gives the best possible chance of the fish being left with just the hook length and as I only use barbless hooks, they will soon shed that.
If the ring on a size 8 ring swivel won't pass over a leader knot, even using 40lb fluoro you are tying it wrong. Fish safety should come first.
If I'm using any kind of leader I always use a helicopter rig with Korda no trace beads. This gives the best possible chance of the fish being left with just the hook length and as I only use barbless hooks, they will soon shed that.
If the ring on a size 8 ring swivel won't pass over a leader knot, even using 40lb fluoro you are tying it wrong. Fish safety should come first.
In reply to Post #19
If the ring on a size 8 ring swivel won't pass over a leader knot, even using 40lb fluoro you are tying it wrong
I beg to differ on that, flex ring swivel with a large eye has a good chance, normal swivel on say a Mahin knot with 45lb nylon or high strength Seaguar may struggle and that does not include anglers who do not use quick release beads! or a knot wrapped up in weed!
As for the helicopter, with leadcore it can fold over, I have used the Korda beads and they are a brilliant idea but the rubber can create a kink in the leadcore that holds the swivel, couple that with weed, not good. People using normal beads on leadcore, even worse, add weed, worse still
How do you fasten your leaders on?
If that knot gets covered in weed t ain't coming off and neither is the swivel which leaves a fish tethered and dragging a lead that's a few feet away from its head, impossible to shake out and sure to get snagged!
Helicopters are a dangerous rig in the wrong hands for me and like I said, I used them your years.
If the ring on a size 8 ring swivel won't pass over a leader knot, even using 40lb fluoro you are tying it wrong
I beg to differ on that, flex ring swivel with a large eye has a good chance, normal swivel on say a Mahin knot with 45lb nylon or high strength Seaguar may struggle and that does not include anglers who do not use quick release beads! or a knot wrapped up in weed!
As for the helicopter, with leadcore it can fold over, I have used the Korda beads and they are a brilliant idea but the rubber can create a kink in the leadcore that holds the swivel, couple that with weed, not good. People using normal beads on leadcore, even worse, add weed, worse still
How do you fasten your leaders on?
If that knot gets covered in weed t ain't coming off and neither is the swivel which leaves a fish tethered and dragging a lead that's a few feet away from its head, impossible to shake out and sure to get snagged!
Helicopters are a dangerous rig in the wrong hands for me and like I said, I used them your years.
In reply to Post #20
Sorry but you are making excuses for yourself using a dangerous set up. As you freely admit if the mainline breaks using your set up the fish WILL be left trailing line, leader, clip, hooklength and possibly lead.
Using a properly set up helicopter rig all the instances you describe could happen in worst case scenarios. Angling does pose risks to the fish. It is our responsibility as anglers to reduce them to a minimum. I very strongly believe the only safe lead setup to use with any kind of leader is helicopter rig because it creates the safest, lowest risk outcome for the fish.
I made it quite clear I use a ring swivel, an ordinary swivel is not safe. Check that it will fit. I gave up using lead core when good supple lead free alternatives became available.
One final point, every trailer I have landed(5 or 6) has been dragging around a setup made with a lead clip. Two still with leads attached. There are some photos on here from Ken Townley that tell the story better than words.
I use back to back grinners to attach casting shock leaders. Loop to spliced loop below that
Sorry but you are making excuses for yourself using a dangerous set up. As you freely admit if the mainline breaks using your set up the fish WILL be left trailing line, leader, clip, hooklength and possibly lead.
Using a properly set up helicopter rig all the instances you describe could happen in worst case scenarios. Angling does pose risks to the fish. It is our responsibility as anglers to reduce them to a minimum. I very strongly believe the only safe lead setup to use with any kind of leader is helicopter rig because it creates the safest, lowest risk outcome for the fish.
I made it quite clear I use a ring swivel, an ordinary swivel is not safe. Check that it will fit. I gave up using lead core when good supple lead free alternatives became available.
One final point, every trailer I have landed(5 or 6) has been dragging around a setup made with a lead clip. Two still with leads attached. There are some photos on here from Ken Townley that tell the story better than words.
I use back to back grinners to attach casting shock leaders. Loop to spliced loop below that
In reply to Post #21
Why, because you currently use helicopters
Used them for years like I already said
And I will disagree with you on another, thread on here very long time ago and in the end the general consensus was a run rig on mono with a barbless hook was probably the safest method around, I would still go along with that. So ditch your leaders
Are the grinners to your whiplash reel lines and Korda SAFE zone leaders
There's a risk with everything
Why, because you currently use helicopters
Used them for years like I already said
And I will disagree with you on another, thread on here very long time ago and in the end the general consensus was a run rig on mono with a barbless hook was probably the safest method around, I would still go along with that. So ditch your leaders
Are the grinners to your whiplash reel lines and Korda SAFE zone leaders
There's a risk with everything
In reply to Post #22
Quite happy to discuss any rig topic you want. However these posts on this thread were to comment on the high level of danger to the fish from using lead clips with leaders. A set up you were proposing people should use. In spite of the fact a mainline break above the leader will always leave fish trailing line, leader, clip, hooklength and possibly the lead. A fact you are happy to live with according to your post.
Quite happy to discuss any rig topic you want. However these posts on this thread were to comment on the high level of danger to the fish from using lead clips with leaders. A set up you were proposing people should use. In spite of the fact a mainline break above the leader will always leave fish trailing line, leader, clip, hooklength and possibly the lead. A fact you are happy to live with according to your post.
In reply to Post #23
The thread is called mono to fluro leader knot, not why I should use a helicopter
Out of interest, how long have you fished with a helicopter for?
And can you explain to me in detail the danger of a mainline parting that is coupled to a fixed lead clip with a fluro leader with a tiny Albright knot with nothing sliding up it? What's going to snag?
Would you say the fixed lead clip is the most likely item to cause a snag, especially if the lead does not come off?
The thread is called mono to fluro leader knot, not why I should use a helicopter
Out of interest, how long have you fished with a helicopter for?
And can you explain to me in detail the danger of a mainline parting that is coupled to a fixed lead clip with a fluro leader with a tiny Albright knot with nothing sliding up it? What's going to snag?
Would you say the fixed lead clip is the most likely item to cause a snag, especially if the lead does not come off?
In reply to Post #24
I agree, the thread is called mono to fluoro leader knot. It was you that started to discuss lead clips and helicopter rigs, not me. I'm simply disagreeing with a careless and dangerous statement you made.
I have been using helis for carp for at least 40 years.
For the third time, if the mainline breaks above the leader on your set up the fish is left trailing line, leader, clip, hooklength and quite possibly the lead. As you have said yourself. That is the danger and it can snag in a million ways. That's why a fish trailing tackle is in serious danger.
I agree, the thread is called mono to fluoro leader knot. It was you that started to discuss lead clips and helicopter rigs, not me. I'm simply disagreeing with a careless and dangerous statement you made.
I have been using helis for carp for at least 40 years.
For the third time, if the mainline breaks above the leader on your set up the fish is left trailing line, leader, clip, hooklength and quite possibly the lead. As you have said yourself. That is the danger and it can snag in a million ways. That's why a fish trailing tackle is in serious danger.
In reply to Post #25
For the third time, if the mainline breaks above the leader on your set up the fish is left trailing line, leader, clip, hooklength and quite possibly the lead. As you have said yourself. That is the danger and it can snag in a million ways. That's why a fish trailing tackle is in serious danger.
I'm lost. Is that not the same risks associated with using any lead clip set up? The lead clip is pinned
For the third time, if the mainline breaks above the leader on your set up the fish is left trailing line, leader, clip, hooklength and quite possibly the lead. As you have said yourself. That is the danger and it can snag in a million ways. That's why a fish trailing tackle is in serious danger.
I'm lost. Is that not the same risks associated with using any lead clip set up? The lead clip is pinned
In reply to Post #26
Hooray we got there. That is my point exactly, and the dangers just increase using a leader with a lead lip. Don't do it.
Hooray we got there. That is my point exactly, and the dangers just increase using a leader with a lead lip. Don't do it.
In reply to Post #27
Hooray, you better get on the phone and contact all the suppliers and tell them to stop selling lead clips!
How does the risk increase by using a short length of fluro?
So, how did you set your helis up prior to the Korda beads?
Hooray, you better get on the phone and contact all the suppliers and tell them to stop selling lead clips!
How does the risk increase by using a short length of fluro?
So, how did you set your helis up prior to the Korda beads?
In reply to Post #28
I really don't like them and I would make said phone call if I thought it would do any good. If you are going to use them at all you need to be very careful. Using mainline straight through, thread on tubing, thread on tail rubber, thread on line clip and tie correct size of swivel for your clip, usually size 8. Make sure the swivel/clip fit is not too tight and swivel shakes out of clip with one good bump of the lead. Don't set the lead to dump on the take.
Answerto question 2. You are tying a knot above the hooklink swivel which you say yourself the clip won't pass over. This is one of, if not the main reason leaders are banned on so many fisheries. Fixed beads, knots, swivels, shot squeezed tight up the line are major no no's and will get you kicked off fisheries
To answer your last question I would need to write a book.
Now it's 20lb line straight through set up naked with Korda beads and a quick change ring swivel plus the hooklength of my choice. For range tapered mainline straight through and Gemini A. R. C. clip down leads.
I really don't like them and I would make said phone call if I thought it would do any good. If you are going to use them at all you need to be very careful. Using mainline straight through, thread on tubing, thread on tail rubber, thread on line clip and tie correct size of swivel for your clip, usually size 8. Make sure the swivel/clip fit is not too tight and swivel shakes out of clip with one good bump of the lead. Don't set the lead to dump on the take.
Answerto question 2. You are tying a knot above the hooklink swivel which you say yourself the clip won't pass over. This is one of, if not the main reason leaders are banned on so many fisheries. Fixed beads, knots, swivels, shot squeezed tight up the line are major no no's and will get you kicked off fisheries
To answer your last question I would need to write a book.
Now it's 20lb line straight through set up naked with Korda beads and a quick change ring swivel plus the hooklength of my choice. For range tapered mainline straight through and Gemini A. R. C. clip down leads.
In reply to Post #29
To answer your last question I would need to write a book.
Now it's 20lb line straight through set up naked with Korda beads and a quick change ring swivel plus the hooklength of my choice. For range tapered mainline straight through and Gemini A. R. C. clip down leads.
I was asking you before, just want to check that you were not using a dangerous rig, which I guess you were
The rest of it, I give up. The clip is pinned, can't move, fixed, can't go up the line, impossible
To answer your last question I would need to write a book.
Now it's 20lb line straight through set up naked with Korda beads and a quick change ring swivel plus the hooklength of my choice. For range tapered mainline straight through and Gemini A. R. C. clip down leads.
I was asking you before, just want to check that you were not using a dangerous rig, which I guess you were
The rest of it, I give up. The clip is pinned, can't move, fixed, can't go up the line, impossible
In reply to Post #30
Tackle, rigs, attitudes, fish safety and knowledge have come a long way since 1960 when I first went fishing. So yes I have used primitive crude rigs and tackle that at the time were new and cutting edge but nowadays would be ragarded as unacceptable like hessian sacks and knotted nets. Fortunately I have had the wit to learn.
My aim with rigs is to be as safe as is possible and that a fish is left with a minimum of tackle attached and in such a way it can easily shed it. ie barbless hooks. My heli set up should in most cases leave the fish with just the hooklink. At the moment that is as good as it gets.
You have clearly stated that you don't have problem with fish trailing mainline, leader, clip, tail rubber, hooklink and possibly lead and maybe tubing because that's the way it is. You are wrong.
Tackle, rigs, attitudes, fish safety and knowledge have come a long way since 1960 when I first went fishing. So yes I have used primitive crude rigs and tackle that at the time were new and cutting edge but nowadays would be ragarded as unacceptable like hessian sacks and knotted nets. Fortunately I have had the wit to learn.
My aim with rigs is to be as safe as is possible and that a fish is left with a minimum of tackle attached and in such a way it can easily shed it. ie barbless hooks. My heli set up should in most cases leave the fish with just the hooklink. At the moment that is as good as it gets.
You have clearly stated that you don't have problem with fish trailing mainline, leader, clip, tail rubber, hooklink and possibly lead and maybe tubing because that's the way it is. You are wrong.
In reply to Post #31
I'm happy to be wrong, how about you
I'm happy to be wrong, how about you
In reply to Post #32
No. But I'm always happy to learn. How about you?
No. But I'm always happy to learn. How about you?
In reply to Post #33
Absolutely
Let me know how your campaign goes on and when all the major manufacturers have dropped leadclips for helis
And for the record, you have been using beads wedged onto leadcore
Absolutely
Let me know how your campaign goes on and when all the major manufacturers have dropped leadclips for helis
And for the record, you have been using beads wedged onto leadcore
This thread is really digressing now but im going to add to it, it now seems that more companies are advocating dropping the lead on the heli set ups
In reply to Post #35
Never considered doing this and can't see a situation where I ever will. Negates the inbuilt safety side of a helicopter rig set up.
Never considered doing this and can't see a situation where I ever will. Negates the inbuilt safety side of a helicopter rig set up.
In reply to Post #36
Yes i completely agree but nearly every heli set up i have seen being used on the bank in the last couple of years has some kind of lead dropping system whether it be a korda one or the small split c rings that i have seen thinking anglers and gardner selling
Yes i completely agree but nearly every heli set up i have seen being used on the bank in the last couple of years has some kind of lead dropping system whether it be a korda one or the small split c rings that i have seen thinking anglers and gardner selling
In reply to Post #34
Have I? Could you send pics?
Have I? Could you send pics?
In reply to Post #38
If you have used helis for as long as you claim you have,,you have used some dodgy set ups in your time so don't come on here giving it the carp police, clean and squeaky just becuase you think you have a winning set up now
If you have used helis for as long as you claim you have,,you have used some dodgy set ups in your time so don't come on here giving it the carp police, clean and squeaky just becuase you think you have a winning set up now
In reply to Post #39
Go back and actually read what I've said, particularly post 31. I haven't got an agenda here, just discussing rig safety. If you can't handle disagreement don't post.
Go back and actually read what I've said, particularly post 31. I haven't got an agenda here, just discussing rig safety. If you can't handle disagreement don't post.
In reply to Post #40
As I said,,crack on with your anti lead clip campaign, the key is getting rid of the lead, far safer than a heli in the wrong hands / wrong set up
As I said,,crack on with your anti lead clip campaign, the key is getting rid of the lead, far safer than a heli in the wrong hands / wrong set up
In reply to Post #41
It could be fun to carry on but all good things must come to an end.
It could be fun to carry on but all good things must come to an end.
In reply to Post #42
Let's carry on. So what you are saying then is people should not be using lead clips in essence?
Everybody should be using helicopters? like your self called “safe” set up?
Let's carry on. So what you are saying then is people should not be using lead clips in essence?
Everybody should be using helicopters? like your self called “safe” set up?
In reply to Post #43
OK. No I am not saying other people should be doing this that or the other. I am saying that I try to think about what I'm doing and learn from observation and experience. I've reached a point where the welfare of the fish and the environment are my priority and actually catching comes third.
I personally don't like line clips and stopped using them years ago. Seen too many negative things involving them.
I think properly constructed helicopter and running rigs are the safest systems, provided you DO NOT drop the lead.
I DO think if you are intentionally dropping the lead fisheries should make it compulsory to use non toxic lead replacement weights.
Lead is something I feel very strongly about and dropping large amounts of lead into aquatic environments is dangerous, shortsighted and the long term consequences are irreversible. Insanity. Even the oil companies eventually banned its use.
That's about it really. Tight lines.
OK. No I am not saying other people should be doing this that or the other. I am saying that I try to think about what I'm doing and learn from observation and experience. I've reached a point where the welfare of the fish and the environment are my priority and actually catching comes third.
I personally don't like line clips and stopped using them years ago. Seen too many negative things involving them.
I think properly constructed helicopter and running rigs are the safest systems, provided you DO NOT drop the lead.
I DO think if you are intentionally dropping the lead fisheries should make it compulsory to use non toxic lead replacement weights.
Lead is something I feel very strongly about and dropping large amounts of lead into aquatic environments is dangerous, shortsighted and the long term consequences are irreversible. Insanity. Even the oil companies eventually banned its use.
That's about it really. Tight lines.
In reply to Post #44
totally agree with the lead situation. If you take a well-stocked busy lake where you have to drop the lead it really does add up. 10 people fishing 3-5 fish a day on a lake I taught my friend to fish on. that's 500 leads a week. crazy
totally agree with the lead situation. If you take a well-stocked busy lake where you have to drop the lead it really does add up. 10 people fishing 3-5 fish a day on a lake I taught my friend to fish on. that's 500 leads a week. crazy
In reply to Post #29
Sorry but that is dangerous , advocating a lead clip that comes free of the swivel is wrong. It's the swivel being fixed to the clip which makes the clip work as it should(as long as the tail rubber isn't jammed on too tight). Allowing the clip to run along the line can cause potential to cause a problem with something getting jammed behind the clip and rubber set up, therefore not allowing the rubber and in turn the lead to eject. Other than that your post is good, and leaders should never be used with anything but a Heli setup , and then only if the lead stays attached.
Sorry but that is dangerous , advocating a lead clip that comes free of the swivel is wrong. It's the swivel being fixed to the clip which makes the clip work as it should(as long as the tail rubber isn't jammed on too tight). Allowing the clip to run along the line can cause potential to cause a problem with something getting jammed behind the clip and rubber set up, therefore not allowing the rubber and in turn the lead to eject. Other than that your post is good, and leaders should never be used with anything but a Heli setup , and then only if the lead stays attached.
In reply to Post #46
Thanks for the compliment but have to disagree with the "dangerous" comment.
For me it's all about risk levels and risk assessment for fish welfare. If the swivel will pull out it allows the clip to act in a semi fixed manner and the fish swim away from the tubing, tail rubber, clip and lead just trailing mono, swivel and hooklink. If the lead is set to eject on the take the fish will be trailing line, tubing, tail rubber, clip, swivel and hooklink plus the lead if its not set up correctly. I feel my way is the lesser of two evils. I really don't like line clips and haven't used them for years.
Thanks for the compliment but have to disagree with the "dangerous" comment.
For me it's all about risk levels and risk assessment for fish welfare. If the swivel will pull out it allows the clip to act in a semi fixed manner and the fish swim away from the tubing, tail rubber, clip and lead just trailing mono, swivel and hooklink. If the lead is set to eject on the take the fish will be trailing line, tubing, tail rubber, clip, swivel and hooklink plus the lead if its not set up correctly. I feel my way is the lesser of two evils. I really don't like line clips and haven't used them for years.
In reply to Post #47
But that is relying on nothing happening to prevent the mainline sliding out of the clip and tail rubber section, which then means the fish can still have it all including the lead attached,and it will be impossible to come off. If the clip is fixed then the lead will come off if it gets caught up. So it's a choice between having the whole lot still attached to a fish, or just the line with clip and no lead. Only one winner there for me. I used to think in a similar way to your post but after reading comments on here and thinking about it I've realised running or semi fixed clips are dangerous , far more so than fixed ones when used correctly. And Tbh when Ive fished Heli setups I've had a rediculous amount of hook pulls compared to using clips and that for me is enough to not use Heli setups any more, because not only due to losing the fish itself, but also because a hook pull is damage to the fish which need not have happened. Hooks don't just fall out the way they go in, poor hookholds cause the vast majority of mouth damage imo, followed by barbless hooks, so using the best lead arrangement to give the best hookhold possible it minimises the chance of mouth damage
But that is relying on nothing happening to prevent the mainline sliding out of the clip and tail rubber section, which then means the fish can still have it all including the lead attached,and it will be impossible to come off. If the clip is fixed then the lead will come off if it gets caught up. So it's a choice between having the whole lot still attached to a fish, or just the line with clip and no lead. Only one winner there for me. I used to think in a similar way to your post but after reading comments on here and thinking about it I've realised running or semi fixed clips are dangerous , far more so than fixed ones when used correctly. And Tbh when Ive fished Heli setups I've had a rediculous amount of hook pulls compared to using clips and that for me is enough to not use Heli setups any more, because not only due to losing the fish itself, but also because a hook pull is damage to the fish which need not have happened. Hooks don't just fall out the way they go in, poor hookholds cause the vast majority of mouth damage imo, followed by barbless hooks, so using the best lead arrangement to give the best hookhold possible it minimises the chance of mouth damage
In reply to Post #45
Glad you agree. Do the arithmetic on somewhere like Rainbow where two leads are often used and 8/10 oz leads are not unusual. Even my local commercial water where there is no sensible reason to drop the lead lots of people do and 10 fish a day is not unusual. Really concerning for the future and I don't just mean angling.
Glad you agree. Do the arithmetic on somewhere like Rainbow where two leads are often used and 8/10 oz leads are not unusual. Even my local commercial water where there is no sensible reason to drop the lead lots of people do and 10 fish a day is not unusual. Really concerning for the future and I don't just mean angling.
In reply to Post #48
We are never going to agree on clips, helis or barbless hooks but I think as long as we both have fish welfare as priority that's the best we can hope for. Tight lines and fish safe.
We are never going to agree on clips, helis or barbless hooks but I think as long as we both have fish welfare as priority that's the best we can hope for. Tight lines and fish safe.
In reply to Post #44
OK. No I am not saying other people should be doing this that or the other. I am saying that I try to think about what I'm doing and learn from observation and experience. I've reached a point where the welfare of the fish and the environment are my priority and actually catching comes third.
Disagree, you are forcing you opinion that lead clips are not safe and what you are doing is. The only man in the world to reach a point where fish care is paramount. You do know you put a hook in their mouth and drag them to the bank don't you, or are you going to become a watcher of big old carp next?
I personally don't like line clips and stopped using them years ago. Seen too many negative things involving them..
Similar to me with helicopters
OK. think properly constructed helicopter and running rigs are the safest systems, provided you DO NOT drop the lead..
If we are talking mainline parting, I would say a run rig on mono
I DO think if you are intentionally dropping the lead fisheries should make it compulsory to use non toxic lead replacement weights..
Similar thoughts to me
Lead is something I feel very strongly about and dropping large amounts of lead into aquatic environments is dangerous, shortsighted and the long term consequences are irreversible. Insanity. Even the oil companies eventually banned its use.
Definitely agree
OK. No I am not saying other people should be doing this that or the other. I am saying that I try to think about what I'm doing and learn from observation and experience. I've reached a point where the welfare of the fish and the environment are my priority and actually catching comes third.
Disagree, you are forcing you opinion that lead clips are not safe and what you are doing is. The only man in the world to reach a point where fish care is paramount. You do know you put a hook in their mouth and drag them to the bank don't you, or are you going to become a watcher of big old carp next?
I personally don't like line clips and stopped using them years ago. Seen too many negative things involving them..
Similar to me with helicopters
OK. think properly constructed helicopter and running rigs are the safest systems, provided you DO NOT drop the lead..
If we are talking mainline parting, I would say a run rig on mono
I DO think if you are intentionally dropping the lead fisheries should make it compulsory to use non toxic lead replacement weights..
Similar thoughts to me
Lead is something I feel very strongly about and dropping large amounts of lead into aquatic environments is dangerous, shortsighted and the long term consequences are irreversible. Insanity. Even the oil companies eventually banned its use.
Definitely agree
In reply to Post #51
Already am a watcher of big old carp and have been since I was 5.
I am perfectly happy to use hooks to catch fish. I want to feel I am doing it as safely as possible
I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, I am stating my opinion on an open public forum and you or anyone else are free to agree or disagree. I am sure the sale of line clips is unlikely to crash because I don't like them. I have tried to explain clearly my thoughts on risks to fish welfare with regard to different rigs and set ups.My thoughts, my experiences, my values, feel free to differ.
I am not going to apologise for promoting fish and environmental welfare above catching. There is an awful lot of bad practice going on out there. There are large sections in angling that have lost, or are losing touch with the traditional sporting ethic and respect for the fish.
Glad you agree on the lead front.
Already am a watcher of big old carp and have been since I was 5.
I am perfectly happy to use hooks to catch fish. I want to feel I am doing it as safely as possible
I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, I am stating my opinion on an open public forum and you or anyone else are free to agree or disagree. I am sure the sale of line clips is unlikely to crash because I don't like them. I have tried to explain clearly my thoughts on risks to fish welfare with regard to different rigs and set ups.My thoughts, my experiences, my values, feel free to differ.
I am not going to apologise for promoting fish and environmental welfare above catching. There is an awful lot of bad practice going on out there. There are large sections in angling that have lost, or are losing touch with the traditional sporting ethic and respect for the fish.
Glad you agree on the lead front.
Reading ALL pages